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  #2791  
Old 08-16-17, 03:13 PM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
This team was not projected to win this year. Only if...only if, all things went well. Bailey came back strong, Disco came back strong. Bronson made a full recovery, Amir Garrett became the rookie of the year, Rookie Davis and Cody Reed became solid contributors....
So the metric was not high, it was in fact, pretty low.

This is one of the better offensive teams in baseball, one of the better defensive teams in baseball and the bullpen is better. How is that terrible???
Your only metric of this is wins and losses. That's not the only indicator on the outcome.
Now, the NY Mets, who were in the world series just a couple of years ago, with all that young pitching...has imploded. They are coming apart at the seams, they are trading any and all tradeble pieces....THAT, it a terrible team.
Yeah, the Reds are clearly the superior organization to the Mets.
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  #2792  
Old 08-16-17, 03:18 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
I watched most of the game last night because both pitchers were good and it moved along. Castillo was really sharp again. High 90's with movement and a nice slider. Looking like he might be legit.

Our manager, on the other hand, is not good. I know baseball situations text book told him to hit for Castillo in the 7th. But Price botched it big time. Runners on 1st and 2nd, no outs. Barnhart up, Castillo on deck, the anemic Billy Hamilton in the hole.

Barnhart has been fairly hot, 2 HR in the last week, solid hitter. He has Barnhart bunting for sacrifice?!?!?!? Moron. If Barnhart is successful, he absolutely has to hit for Castillo, so clearly Price had pre-determined he was going to pull Castillo. Moron.

So Barnhart fails on the bunt, and down 0-2, he strikes out, with Suarez taking 3rd on dropped 3rd strike. Pinch hitter (Kivlehan) K's, and of course Billy K's for the 3rd time, so its 0-0 and Castillo is out of the game.

Only 80 pitches in 6 innings of pitching mastery. Against a team that scored 15 the night before. The night before Scooter had to pitch. DO NOT FORCE YOURSELF TO CHANGE PITCHERS AT THIS POINT. Moron.

Price always plays by the book. The OLD book. Think a little. Let Barnhart hit. If he gets a hit, great. If he doesn't, let Castillo bunt. And let Castillo go another 2 innings.
Remember the situation well, and I'm with Price on that one. Just poor execution. Barnhart, is one of the teams best bunters. I bunt there, next week and next year, it's the right thing to do.
Now, I would have pinch hit Peraza over Kievelhan. Kievelhan was over matched with Edwards. Big swing vs. a good breaking ball pitcher. Peraza is a contact hitter and runs well so the DP is less likely.

As for Castillo, yes, I can see why you'd want to keep him out there, but at his age, he's had a great outing, winning today isn't critical, so I'm ok with making that move. The pen was rested with all three hammers available. No problem whatsoever with that move.

Again, i said it when it happened, this is just fodder for the Price haters, and it's an armchair QB way to criticize. I'm sure you give him no credit if Barnhart successfully sac's and Kievelhan hits a fly ball. But that's what people do.
BTW, Billy knocked in a HUGE insurance run in the 9th. Anemic Billy...

And we can't heap enough praise on Votto. Again, in the 8th with one out, he goes from 1-2 down to 3-2, fouling off pitch after pitch, get a walk, goes to 3rd on the gapper by Duvall. Votto saw what 30+ pitches last night in his 4 at bats???
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  #2793  
Old 08-16-17, 03:21 PM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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14red would celebrate a successful Billy Hamilton bowel movement, if Billy would let him in the stall.
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  #2794  
Old 08-16-17, 03:49 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
14red would celebrate a successful Billy Hamilton bowel movement, if Billy would let him in the stall.
Hmmm, don't think so...everyone has BM's. Billy is a major league baseball player, and got a key hit in a game where that run was the difference.

Just don't get it do you ep...are you just angry and vengeful all the time, or just on here??
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  #2795  
Old 08-16-17, 05:01 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
I watched most of the game last night because both pitchers were good and it moved along. Castillo was really sharp again. High 90's with movement and a nice slider. Looking like he might be legit.

Our manager, on the other hand, is not good. I know baseball situations text book told him to hit for Castillo in the 7th. But Price botched it big time. Runners on 1st and 2nd, no outs. Barnhart up, Castillo on deck, the anemic Billy Hamilton in the hole.

Barnhart has been fairly hot, 2 HR in the last week, solid hitter. He has Barnhart bunting for sacrifice?!?!?!? Moron. If Barnhart is successful, he absolutely has to hit for Castillo, so clearly Price had pre-determined he was going to pull Castillo. Moron.

So Barnhart fails on the bunt, and down 0-2, he strikes out, with Suarez taking 3rd on dropped 3rd strike. Pinch hitter (Kivlehan) K's, and of course Billy K's for the 3rd time, so its 0-0 and Castillo is out of the game.

Only 80 pitches in 6 innings of pitching mastery. Against a team that scored 15 the night before. The night before Scooter had to pitch. DO NOT FORCE YOURSELF TO CHANGE PITCHERS AT THIS POINT. Moron.

Price always plays by the book. The OLD book. Think a little. Let Barnhart hit. If he gets a hit, great. If he doesn't, let Castillo bunt. And let Castillo go another 2 innings.
Given that wins don't matter at this point I would have let Castillo pitch just to get the experience of going deep into the ball game. How many times have we heard that these young pitchers need to find a way to get thru the lineup a third time? Last night was a great opportunity to do just that but instead Price went for a meaningless win.
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  #2796  
Old 08-16-17, 07:50 PM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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I wonder how long until we see Homer back on the DL for this, that, or the other.
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  #2797  
Old 08-16-17, 09:33 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
This team was not projected to win this year. Only if...only if, all things went well. Bailey came back strong, Disco came back strong. Bronson made a full recovery, Amir Garrett became the rookie of the year, Rookie Davis and Cody Reed became solid contributors....
So the metric was not high, it was in fact, pretty low.

This is one of the better offensive teams in baseball, one of the better defensive teams in baseball and the bullpen is better. How is that terrible???
Your only metric of this is wins and losses. That's not the only indicator on the outcome.
Now, the NY Mets, who were in the world series just a couple of years ago, with all that young pitching...has imploded. They are coming apart at the seams, they are trading any and all tradeble pieces....THAT, it a terrible team.
So that means the team isn't terrible?

The only metric that matters is wins and losses. The Reds are middle of the pack in runs scored, hits, batting average and on base percentage. They play in one of the friendliest HR hitting parks in MLB and yet barely crack the top 10 in HRs. Not to mention their relievers ERA is #19 in the MLB and middle of the pack batting average. Darn those pesky things like stats disproving you yet again! The Reds are a terrible team. Which is why they have the 4th worst record. It doesn't matter that they weren't expected to win this year. They are bad.
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  #2798  
Old 08-17-17, 08:04 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
This team was not projected to win this year. Only if...only if, all things went well. Bailey came back strong, Disco came back strong. Bronson made a full recovery, Amir Garrett became the rookie of the year, Rookie Davis and Cody Reed became solid contributors....
So the metric was not high, it was in fact, pretty low.

This is one of the better offensive teams in baseball, one of the better defensive teams in baseball and the bullpen is better. How is that terrible???
Your only metric of this is wins and losses. That's not the only indicator on the outcome.
Now, the NY Mets, who were in the world series just a couple of years ago, with all that young pitching...has imploded. They are coming apart at the seams, they are trading any and all tradeble pieces....THAT, it a terrible team.
In the Major Leagues this is the ONLY metric that matters.
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  #2799  
Old 08-17-17, 08:07 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Gh0st View Post
I wonder how long until we see Homer back on the DL for this, that, or the other.
Lost in the tough first inning last night for Homer is that he went into the 6th inning, throw 109 pitches. He is healthy. That is the most important stat for him in '17. Take the ball every 5 days, build up the innings and hopefully push that into spring training and into the '18 season.
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  #2800  
Old 08-17-17, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
In the Major Leagues this is the ONLY metric that matters.
Then the Reds won't be alone in disappointed fans. I think some progress has been made this season. Would like to have seen more from the starting pitching, but progress has been made.
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  #2801  
Old 08-17-17, 08:10 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
So that means the team isn't terrible?

The only metric that matters is wins and losses. The Reds are middle of the pack in runs scored, hits, batting average and on base percentage. They play in one of the friendliest HR hitting parks in MLB and yet barely crack the top 10 in HRs. Not to mention their relievers ERA is #19 in the MLB and middle of the pack batting average. Darn those pesky things like stats disproving you yet again! The Reds are a terrible team. Which is why they have the 4th worst record. It doesn't matter that they weren't expected to win this year. They are bad.
I think the main metric for all 30 teams is to make money, or at least not lose a ton. But if you want to lump 29 teams as failures, than so be it. Good luck with that. Progress is being made.
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  #2802  
Old 08-17-17, 08:23 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
I think the main metric for all 30 teams is to make money, or at least not lose a ton. But if you want to lump 29 teams as failures, than so be it. Good luck with that. Progress is being made.
On the management side it is. For the players and coaches the only metric that matters is winning. That aside, progress being made doesn't change the fact this is a terrible team. No comment about the Reds offense being the definition of average and the relievers being below average?
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  #2803  
Old 08-17-17, 09:31 AM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is online now
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
not true...
How is that not true? They're freaking awful. They suck.
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  #2804  
Old 08-17-17, 09:46 AM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Lost in the tough first inning last night for Homer is that he went into the 6th inning, throw 109 pitches. He is healthy. That is the most important stat for him in '17. Take the ball every 5 days, build up the innings and hopefully push that into spring training and into the '18 season.
Good point, lost on these negative nellies is the fact that other than sucking really bad and losing the game in the very first inning, Bailey was really really good. Only good fans like you and I recognize that. It's retry clear Bailey is getting paid a crap ton of money and will get the ball every 5 days whether any of these non-fans like it or not!
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  #2805  
Old 08-17-17, 10:43 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Remember the situation well, and I'm with Price on that one. Just poor execution. Barnhart, is one of the teams best bunters. I bunt there, next week and next year, it's the right thing to do.
Of course you would. You and Price think like 1980 baseball guys. No understanding of math or how good, modern managers like Madden play the sabermetrics game now. Bunting is giving an out away, which is fine with the pitcher batting. Other than that, don't give the out away, EVER. Especially when the next 2 hitters are Castillo and Hamilton. You give away the out and force yourself to change pitchers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Again, i said it when it happened, this is just fodder for the Price haters, and it's an armchair QB way to criticize. I'm sure you give him no credit if Barnhart successfully sac's and Kievelhan hits a fly ball. But that's what people do.
That's not what I do. Yelled at the TV as soon as Barnhart squared to bunt, and told my son and wife exactly what I posted. If the Sac works, he still has to pull Castillo. Cant bunt them over and let Castillo hit. Dumb.


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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
BTW, Billy knocked in a HUGE insurance run in the 9th. Anemic Billy...
It was a key hit for sure, happy to see it. But Billy looked bad with 3 K's. And he's still ranked 140 out of 159 eligible MLB hitters in on-base percentage. Anemic hitter.

As I've said, he should be batting 8th and Joey 1st. Been saying it all year. Best OBP guy on the planet, maximize his ABs.
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  #2806  
Old 08-17-17, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Lost in the tough first inning last night for Homer is that he went into the 6th inning, throw 109 pitches. He is healthy. That is the most important stat for him in '17. Take the ball every 5 days, build up the innings and hopefully push that into spring training and into the '18 season.
"Healthy" isn't a stat, it is a condition. You really struggle with the English language as well as baseball math.

Glad he is healthy, and glad to see the 10Ks, it was the only positive last night. After 11 starts he really should not be struggling so much with command, both out of the strike zone and inside it. 7 hits and 5 BB in less than 6 innings. Season long WHIP of 2.04 is off-the-charts bad. Excellent pitchers have 1.0 or 1.1. Terrible pitchers (like Ubaldo Jiminez and Ricky Nolasco) have 1.5 or 1.6. Homer is off the charts.

If he can't figure his sh*t out in the next month and a half, and a pitching coach can't help him locate better, the Reds should put him in the pen next year. Rebuilding teams don't have time to mess around with a 31 year old that allows 2 plus base runners per inning.
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