Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority  

Go Back   Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority > Boys HS Sports > Football

Hello Guest!
Take a minute to register, It's 100% FREE! What are you waiting for?
Register Now
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #91  
Old 04-29-17, 01:45 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 04-04-12
Location: Rayen Stadium
Posts: 8,604
EastYoungstown is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportster4321 View Post
I agree. As a die hard Hubbard fan, maybe a better schedule would have already brought a title home. We obviously have the talent every year. Besides scheduling I think depth hurts a lot of teams in our area. In the playoffs schools are dressing 80+ with talent on the bench. How many schools in our area are doing this on a regular basis? Money, Ursuline, have dropped off a bit from the early 2000 dominance. Boardman operates like a D3/D4 team anymore. Maybe austintown? The area is shrinking. Balance is going away. Who knows what the landscape will look like in 10 more years. I know it's only going to get worse.
I agree.

Populations have dropped AND open enrollment has balanced things out a bit.

Probably better for local competition in the long run, but it probably means it will be tougher to win titles.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 04-29-17, 01:48 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 04-04-12
Location: Rayen Stadium
Posts: 8,604
EastYoungstown is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spread All Day View Post
Listen. If you play a meat grinder schedule and go 2-8 you look dumb. Especially if there's teams in your region that are 7-3 in the playoffs with less talent than you.


If people would schedule mooney around here they would play them in a heartbeat. They don't schedule like that because they want to, it's because they have to. Everyone knows that.
Most teams are in conferences though so that really doesn't apply.

How many games does Struthers choose? 3? Maybe even less due to rivalry games they always keep?

That's not the difference between 2-8 and 7-3.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 04-29-17, 02:07 PM
Sykotyk Sykotyk is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 10-12-06
Location: Lowellville, OH
Posts: 3,363
Sykotyk is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
I agree but I think that thinking is flawed.

I think it is, too. But it is the accepted norm today. The problem is, most teams will never sniff a state championship. Only a 'once in a generation team' might even make a deep playoff run at some of these schools.

The problem is, these schools are one of the biggest proponents of "if we schedule just right, somehow we'll win a state championship".

The biggest issue is just that the school is responsible for their scheduling. And before anyone says "but they're in a league, they only schedule 2-3-4 games themselves" is a falsehood. Leagues are basically bulk-scheduling agreements and really nothing more. And as long as teams are responsible for scheduling their own schedules, they will do anything they think will give them an advantage. And that's where all this conference hopping becomes an even bigger and bigger issue.

Take that away, and the primary motivation solves itself.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 04-29-17, 02:15 PM
Bandit22 Bandit22 is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 09-12-16
Posts: 142
Bandit22 is on a distinguished road
and a note to add to the part of the discussion about the ADs of yesteryear as opposed to those today, and that is this - the job isn't the same, it is more of a money manager rules manager game day event manager

more and more schools have hiring committees for high profile coaching positions - and more coaches of high profile programs have control over yea or nay of who they want to play. The AD doesn't get to decide to fire a coach, but told by super or boe to do the dirty work of their bidding, and less and less does the AD hire coaches but process resumes and maybe sit in first round on a panel of the hiring.

BOEs definitely are a strong influence on league affiliation and in this PC world less supers are going john wayne and runnin things without regard. I would say ADs of the 40's-70's had more say and sway.

As I have said in the NBC discussions - I do not understand the dodging going on, there is always this justification as to why the dodging is going on or perfuse denial - but it is happening. I understand major discrepancies like a d5 not wanting to play up with d4 d3 leagues but playing up one or down on division is not that big of a deal and now we have schools that don't want to play other PUBLIC schools of the same division? I don't get it - I am about to become a d7 fan and say screw it - they have nowhere to go play but up - may be the last true football being played (its always been a game of toughness)
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 04-29-17, 03:05 PM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 06-25-11
Location: The valley
Posts: 3,471
Spread All Day is on a distinguished road
What schools in the same division don't want to play each other that are public?
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 04-29-17, 04:49 PM
simkon simkon is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 10-27-11
Posts: 235
simkon is on a distinguished road
Why would Poland want to avoid Canfield, they are their rivals and have played them in pretty much every sport every year for as long as most of us can remember. Also Canfield has been pretty much awful recently except they were ok last year. I doubt Canfield can compete with the DI and DII schools. And to be perfectly honest I know for a fact Canfield's enrollment is down, it peaked in the mid 2000's and has been going down for about 10 years. As far as I understood, Canfield Poland and Howland pretty much seem to stick together. The problem is Boardman and Austintown and Harding have over 100 kids more for football to draw from, while Canfield has about 75-80 more than the smaller schools in their division. So, I can certainly empathize for the smaller D-III schools, but at the same time if you are the same division then you should be willing to play teams in your division, if they were being asked to play up 2 divisions or say a small D-IV was asked to play a big D-III then that is obviously a different story.
As far as a league goes I don't really think there is a good answer, but I think Boardman, Fitch and Harding would be good fits in the Federal League, but the proximity/geography might be a bit problematic, other than that they would be very competitive.
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 04-29-17, 05:36 PM
BHSspartans13 BHSspartans13 is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 09-27-06
Posts: 2,633
BHSspartans13 is on a distinguished road
Simkon brings up a good point about Poland and Canfield not wanting to avoid each other. I know it was a bit tricky considering Poland wanted to be in the white tier in more sports while Canfield was still in the red.

Which is why I think my 6 team league of Poland, Canfield, Howland, Louisville, Marlington, and Alliance makes sense. That is a pretty similar grouping of schools and it leaves enough flexibility for nonleague games. Kent Roosevelt and Ravenna probably wouldn't want to come along in retrospect.

I want Boardman to go back to the Fed honestly but maybe if Fitch came along with Harding it could split into two 5 school divisions for football with 2 crossovers leaving space for Mooney and Ursuline.

Boardman, Fitch, Harding, McKinley, Glenoak
Lake, Green, Hoover, Jackson, Perry
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 04-29-17, 07:10 PM
simkon simkon is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 10-27-11
Posts: 235
simkon is on a distinguished road
High School Enrollments in the Area from a year or two ago
Canfield 805
Fitch 1686
Boardman 1519
South Range 481
Valley Christian 706
Mooney 685
Poland 790
Struthers 697
Springfield 449
Campbell 544
East 1537
Ursuline 552
Howland 994
Harding 1581
Niles 777
Mineral Ridge 547
Girard 654
Liberty 457
McDonald 493

Mind you these are total enrollment numbers and some schools are disproportionate in boys and girls. I only listed what I happened to find published in an article in the paper from a few years ago.

From this it seems that Fitch, Harding, East and Boardman are close enough in size, though East may not be as competitive. Howland is bigger than everyone else but not big enough to match up with the 4 teams above them. Without me checking the rest of the teams in the area it would be hard to say much more than that. I didn't realize Howland was that much larger in enrollment than Canfield though and didn't realize Canfield and Poland were so close at that time. It seems with the large differences in enrollment there will always be some schools who are unhappy with the league.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 04-29-17, 07:13 PM
redtiger redtiger is offline
Junior Varsity
 
Join Date: 03-01-12
Posts: 27
redtiger is on a distinguished road
You make some very good points that are well thought out. I think that is is ironic that now that several years have passed that intelligent people realize that Fitch and Boardman fit better into the Federal League than the ACC. I remember when the ACC brought WGH, Fitch, and Boardman in that local "officials" were prematurely celebrating the return of local rivalries. These "experts" forgot that those 3 schools were significantly larger than the Poland-Canfield-Howland-Hubbard-Struthers?-Niles? teams that were the traditional public school Division II-IV "powers" in the area. How those in charge thought those teams would be anxious to play Fitch, Boardman, and WGH shows me how much they had been in a time warp that had not noticed the population decline that had taken its toll in the Mahoning Valley.
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 04-30-17, 01:30 AM
DCoach47 DCoach47 is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: 08-08-15
Posts: 80
DCoach47 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spread All Day View Post
Howland has guts with their schedule? LAUGHABLE. This is a program that consistently plays smaller schools, goes 10-0, 9-1 and loses in the first round of the playoffs. Give me a break.
not quite sure if they would consistently lose in the 1st round every year. 2007, Howland went 10-0 for the FIRST time in school history! playing Canfield and Poland who were consistently in the playoffs, and Liberty, who had Pittsburgh Steelers RB Fitzgerald Toussaint. Howland spanked Madison, only to lose to Mayfield, who won the Region.

2008, Howland went 7-3, and lost to Akron Hoban in the first round, who won the region.

2009, Howland went 9-1, with 1 17-0 loss to Poland. Poland had 4 Divison 1 players on that team. QB Colin Reardon started at Kent State. RB Luke Wollet also started at Kent State. Dom and Darius Patton also were D1 players. One of them committed suicide, not sure what happened to the other. Anyways, Howland beat Medina Highland in the first round, and lost to Ashland 19-14. De'Veon Smith fumbled, as a freshman, fumbled late in the game, which cost the Tigers. Ashland would then lose 45-42 to Mentor Lake Catholic.

2010, Howland would go 10-0, with wins over those playoff Canfield and Poland teams. Poland didn't have Wollet, but had the other 3 D1 players. They also played Harding, who had D1 player in Demond Hymes. Howland blanked Copley 17-0 in the first round, but an early injury in that game to Smith put them in trouble, as they lost to Mentor Lake Catholic 24-7. It was 14-7 for most of the game until MLC scored garbage late.

2011 and 2012, Howland both made the playoffs, and I believe that they lost in the first round both times. Those 2 teams were the worst teams in that 6 year stretch
Reply With Quote
  #101  
Old 04-30-17, 07:23 AM
simkon simkon is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 10-27-11
Posts: 235
simkon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCoach47 View Post
not quite sure if they would consistently lose in the 1st round every year. 2007, Howland went 10-0 for the FIRST time in school history! playing Canfield and Poland who were consistently in the playoffs
In 2010 Canfield was 5-5 and was not even close to making the playoffs. In 2011 they were 4-6, in 2012 they were 2-8, in 2013 they were 3-7. Their last playoff appearance in that period was 2009.
Point being Canfield was awful for 4 or 5 years from about 2010 to 2013.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 04-30-17, 07:40 AM
Worm02 Worm02 is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 08-31-03
Location: Warren, OH
Posts: 6,740
Worm02 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by simkon View Post
Why would Poland want to avoid Canfield, they are their rivals and have played them in pretty much every sport every year for as long as most of us can remember. Also Canfield has been pretty much awful recently except they were ok last year. I doubt Canfield can compete with the DI and DII schools. And to be perfectly honest I know for a fact Canfield's enrollment is down, it peaked in the mid 2000's and has been going down for about 10 years. As far as I understood, Canfield Poland and Howland pretty much seem to stick together. The problem is Boardman and Austintown and Harding have over 100 kids more for football to draw from, while Canfield has about 75-80 more than the smaller schools in their division. So, I can certainly empathize for the smaller D-III schools, but at the same time if you are the same division then you should be willing to play teams in your division, if they were being asked to play up 2 divisions or say a small D-IV was asked to play a big D-III then that is obviously a different story.
As far as a league goes I don't really think there is a good answer, but I think Boardman, Fitch and Harding would be good fits in the Federal League, but the proximity/geography might be a bit problematic, other than that they would be very competitive.
While bigger numbers help, many in this area are stuck in the mentality that they can't compete with larger schools. Trotwood Madison has played Wayne & Centerville, Steubenville had a series with Massillon, Coldwater & Marion Local have state championship game victories over Mooney & Ursuline (since so many cry about public schools), etc. Meanwhile, Canfield nearly knocked off Toledo Central Catholic in the 2005 Division 2 state championship game, Howland has had an abundance of FBS players, Poland has been solid for years, etc. Why not build on those moments like Trotwood, Steubenville, MAC schools, etc. built on their big moments? You never know what you'll do in the big moment if you willingly hide from them. Derek Wolfe started at defensive end for the 2015 Denver Broncos that won the Super Bowl. He graduated from Beaver Local. I could give many more examples, but you don't need to be a great program to have great athletes.

I'm pretty sure that Steubenville has a smaller enrollment than Howland, Poland, and Canfield. Then again, if you're willing to play Big Red, you might as well save yourself gas money and play Harding, Fitch, or Boardman, but that's the thing. Elite programs don't use enrollment as an excuse to avoid challenges, but I doubt that's the issue with AAC schools.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 04-30-17, 08:05 AM
simkon simkon is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 10-27-11
Posts: 235
simkon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Worm02 View Post
While bigger numbers help, many in this area are stuck in the mentality that they can't compete with larger schools...Canfield nearly knocked off Toledo Central Catholic in the 2005 Division 2 state championship game.... I could give many more examples, but you don't need to be a great program to have great athletes.
Elite programs don't use enrollment as an excuse to avoid challenges.
Well Canfield in 2005 relied heavily on about 3 or 4 players, when Canfield was good it wasn't as much about a team effort as much as it was an individual effort by a few players that without all 3 or 4 of those guys the team would be mediocre at best. Canfield just hasn't had the players since 2007 to be competitive against DI teams note their records against the schedule that they had from 2010 to 2014, if they played Fitch, Harding or Boardman from 2010 to 2014 they would have been slaughtered and it would have been detrimental in all honesty. They had about 5 years in the past 30 years not all consecutive that they could have beat the area D-I teams at the time, aside from those years they would be killed pretty much unless one of them was having a really down year. Howland seems to consistently have the athletes to be more competitive than Canfield year in and year out, Howland has always had at least 150 more kids than Canfield, at times they had over 300 kids more.

I hate to say it but from what I can tell there seems to be a point where statistically when you have a certain enrollment with certain demographics you are a lot more likely to have the athletes necessary to be able to compete with the likes of Harding or Fitch every year.
Howland has probably had 1000-1200 kids the past 10 years or so, compared to Canfield that is all the way down at 700-800 ever since the enrollment dropped and ever since then they have not been able to compete like they did in 2005 when the enrollment peaked.

It is not all just mentality, that is definitely a factor for a lot of schools but some of it is backed up scientifically. Statistically speaking there seems to be a certain threshold and demographics required at which point you are much more likely to get elite players that go on to play D-I. Howland is consistently at that level or higher and Canfield has been below the threshold for about the past 10 years or so. Canfield also doesn't have the correct "demographics" to put it nicely with out offending anyone. Or to put it another way I would not want to bet on Canfield to win the 100 meter dash at the County meet anytime soon.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 04-30-17, 08:42 PM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 06-25-11
Location: The valley
Posts: 3,471
Spread All Day is on a distinguished road
I am curious as to the resault of the alleged meeting between current white tier teams
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 05-01-17, 08:39 AM
Stack Attack Stack Attack is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 05-12-14
Location: Canal Fulton Ohio
Posts: 421
Stack Attack is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by simkon View Post
In 2010 Canfield was 5-5 and was not even close to making the playoffs. In 2011 they were 4-6, in 2012 they were 2-8, in 2013 they were 3-7. Their last playoff appearance in that period was 2009.
Point being Canfield was awful for 4 or 5 years from about 2010 to 2013.
Canfield was 6-4 in 2011. That team should have made the playoffs but lost its last 3 games. That Italiano kid was a stud
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 05-01-17, 11:03 AM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 06-25-11
Location: The valley
Posts: 3,471
Spread All Day is on a distinguished road
Huh? If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle!
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 05-01-17, 01:08 PM
kingpin2010 kingpin2010 is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 01-27-10
Location: McDonald, OH
Posts: 3,284
kingpin2010 is on a distinguished road
I believe Italiano got hurt that year which is why they lost those games. They beat a 10-2 by 21 in week 1 and an 11-2 team in week 3. They lost on a last second fg to 9-0 Howland before Italiano got hurt.
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 05-01-17, 01:57 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 04-04-12
Location: Rayen Stadium
Posts: 8,604
EastYoungstown is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spread All Day View Post
Huh? If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle!
Ha!

It's fun to have this conversation once a year.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 05-01-17, 06:58 PM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 06-25-11
Location: The valley
Posts: 3,471
Spread All Day is on a distinguished road
Canfield is supposed to be pretty decent this year. Howland will stink. Like 3-7 stink.

What's the issue! Ah oh well.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 05-01-17, 07:11 PM
simkon simkon is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 10-27-11
Posts: 235
simkon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spread All Day View Post
Canfield is supposed to be pretty decent this year. Howland will stink. Like 3-7 stink.
Maybe they can play all Canadien teams this year to go 10-0.
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 05-01-17, 08:28 PM
Hilltopper1 Hilltopper1 is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 07-27-16
Posts: 127
Hilltopper1 is on a distinguished road
Will Struthers and Poland really vote to abandon Canfield and sabotage the tier? You bet. Poland does not care that Canfield is their rival. These are the same two teams that torpedoed the MVC keep in mind. Poland fully backed Struthers in forcing Campbell to crossover with Struthers for 2 more years. Struthers turned their back on Campbell in the MVC and Poland is prepared to turn their back on Canfield in the AAC. Wonder how that White Tier meeting went. I think Poland and Struthers should just get their own 2 team tier since they do this every couple decades.
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 05-01-17, 08:52 PM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 06-25-11
Location: The valley
Posts: 3,471
Spread All Day is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1 View Post
Will Struthers and Poland really vote to abandon Canfield and sabotage the tier? You bet. Poland does not care that Canfield is their rival. These are the same two teams that torpedoed the MVC keep in mind. Poland fully backed Struthers in forcing Campbell to crossover with Struthers for 2 more years. Struthers turned their back on Campbell in the MVC and Poland is prepared to turn their back on Canfield in the AAC. Wonder how that White Tier meeting went. I think Poland and Struthers should just get their own 2 team tier since they do this every couple decades.
Struthers didn't screw Campbell... Campbell screwed Campbell.
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 05-01-17, 09:55 PM
HHEagles HHEagles is offline
Freshman
 
Join Date: 10-15-16
Posts: 23
HHEagles is on a distinguished road
Canfield poland Struthers howland?? Should be concerned with ONE team in the AAC

Sincerely THE most CONSISTENT valley team in the last 15 YEARS. THE HUBBARD EAGLES.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 05-01-17, 09:56 PM
HHEagles HHEagles is offline
Freshman
 
Join Date: 10-15-16
Posts: 23
HHEagles is on a distinguished road
Correction>>> THE ALMIGHTY EAGLES
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 05-02-17, 07:53 AM
Devilone Devilone is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 03-10-11
Location: Howland, OH
Posts: 284
Devilone is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spread All Day View Post
Struthers didn't screw Campbell... Campbell screwed Campbell.
Please explain to me how Campbell screwed Campbell?
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 05-02-17, 07:56 AM
Devilone Devilone is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 03-10-11
Location: Howland, OH
Posts: 284
Devilone is on a distinguished road
I can't wait to hear this explanation.
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 05-02-17, 09:19 AM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 06-25-11
Location: The valley
Posts: 3,471
Spread All Day is on a distinguished road
You won't hear it at all. You might read it though.
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 05-02-17, 09:26 AM
Devilone Devilone is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 03-10-11
Location: Howland, OH
Posts: 284
Devilone is on a distinguished road
But you didn't answer the question.
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 05-02-17, 09:27 AM
Devilone Devilone is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 03-10-11
Location: Howland, OH
Posts: 284
Devilone is on a distinguished road
Please be so kind to enlighten us all.
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 05-02-17, 10:32 AM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 06-25-11
Location: The valley
Posts: 3,471
Spread All Day is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devilone View Post
Please be so kind to enlighten us all.
The most recent screwjob Campbell did to itself was easy. They tried to leave the conference, the ITCL folded, no one wanted them and they stayed in the AAC. they tried to bully their way to a better schedule and the AAC wouldn't have it. So they're forced to play their rivals.

It really doesn't matter to me. They are an afterthought every season. Even when you thought they were gonna win state in 2011, an afterthought.

Not jumping down the rabbit hole of the first time Campbell left the conference when you said Poland and struthers did it. Could be totally wrong about the MVC again that was over 20 years ago.

Last edited by Spread All Day; 05-02-17 at 11:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Guns Save Lives! lotr10 Debate Forum 57 02-15-16 12:06 PM
Bill Nye to NASCAR: Go Electric and Save the World Yappi General Board 13 01-31-16 03:58 AM
AAC Tiers Jtown5 Football 3 09-03-15 10:32 AM
Save Cleveland State Wrestling - T-shirts Available Sid's Dad Wrestling 9 04-14-15 09:31 AM
Idea to save D1 college wrestling. kbiz Wrestling 8 09-17-14 11:44 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:01 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Registration Booster - Powered By Dirt RIF CustUmz