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  #61  
Old 01-30-17, 09:20 AM
THESHADOW14 THESHADOW14 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bandit22 View Post
CCC has said no to MCK several times over the last several years.

both have same opening this year coming up

CCC is done playing MCK - so the they would have beat them this year statement is about as dumb of a post as there is when they could play them and prove if they could beat them. CCC beat jackson but in a way had the unfair advantage of having their whole coaching staff in the endzone of their stadium to watch the game.

and while I don't read anyone from CCC on here saying this - there is always that one guy when I am out that claims CCC would run the Fed - ok that's a fun statement, but until you play them all week to week back to back then

I think CCC is a solid program with many respectable people running it. They win big games, and push in the playoffs, what I wonder is why aren't they playing Mooney and Ursaline year in and year out?

I don't expect CCC to play MCK - that is crazy talk.


I never met you out cause I live in a cave... but I am that one guy that says that CCHS would have won the Federal League for sure last year and contended the last 3 years no question?
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  #62  
Old 01-30-17, 09:26 AM
THESHADOW14 THESHADOW14 is offline
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Now - the truth - the last time CC played Pups I think was 1997 and Pups beat us up pretty good - I mean real good!.... Well, Pups were #1 in USA that year, remember??

But, I say play McKinley every year now.... and Join the Federal League!... I guarantee that if we joined the FDL we would get more kids to come to CCHS!

Reasoning - do you know how many kids Jackson has that won't see the field at Jackson and CCHS coaches would make them solid players?.... For Instance, Jackson has a great QB coming back - and a back-up QB that is real good that would be maybe a starter for CC.... That is just one example...

and you all know the Shadow Knows!
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  #63  
Old 01-30-17, 09:28 AM
Bandit22 Bandit22 is offline
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I wouldn't blame CCC if they did just that for just that reason. It makes sense when kids are not getting time on field....

gives a person pause for thought.
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  #64  
Old 01-30-17, 11:12 AM
THESHADOW14 THESHADOW14 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bandit22 View Post
I wouldn't blame CCC if they did just that for just that reason. It makes sense when kids are not getting time on field....

gives a person pause for thought.

My friend - I have been saying this for years - I am sure other posters are sick of me saying that... but I tell you FED would be great for CC and CC great for Fed!

I watch Perry/Jackson/GlenOak - there are Many kids that would make a positive addition to CC team

P.S. also - STA needs to combine with CC too!
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  #65  
Old 01-30-17, 11:19 AM
Bandit22 Bandit22 is offline
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You bring up a couple good points

let's start with the first - how much longer does St Thommy hang on? and would a closure automatically send those kids to CCC - I am fearful many would just go back to their public district (but we aren't talking that many kids because the class size at STA is very small right now)

and the second - CCC in the fed, while this looks like an incredible bit to chew, CCC already competes in several sports with these schools - was hoping CCC and Louisville would get something going for a league.
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  #66  
Old 01-30-17, 12:08 PM
cwade cwade is offline
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CCC has a very good schedule but they would not be as successful if they had to play in the Fed week in and week out!
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  #67  
Old 01-30-17, 12:34 PM
Starkbuck Starkbuck is offline
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I personally do not think that joining the Federal League would be beneficial for CCC at all. I think that they can compete with these teams, but unless the depth of their team were to increase by about 75%, there's no way to survive that grind. Additionally, I think having a couple regular rivalries, Jackson and Perry, adds to the dramatic flair of the season. These kids look forward to these games and more often than not, the games do not disappoint.

With regards to the St. Thomas and CCC merger, I do not believe that it would really benefit either STA or CCC if they were to consolidate. If you close STA and move everyone to CCC, you will disenfranchise the eastern part of Stark County. If you close CCC and move every to STA, then you have lost the majority of Stark County. Either way, there is no way that this could benefit either school. The only possible way to merge these two school, and it is more pipe dream than anything else, would be to find a neutral area and build a brand new facility. This is not likely to happen any time soon as parochial schools are not privy to federal and state funding, and this project would almost be exclusively done through private donor.
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  #68  
Old 01-30-17, 03:26 PM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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Originally Posted by Bandit22 View Post
You bring up a couple good points

let's start with the first - how much longer does St Thommy hang on? and would a closure automatically send those kids to CCC - I am fearful many would just go back to their public district (but we aren't talking that many kids because the class size at STA is very small right now)

and the second - CCC in the fed, while this looks like an incredible bit to chew, CCC already competes in several sports with these schools - was hoping CCC and Louisville would get something going for a league.
We could not compete in the Federal League week in and week out for a decade. Are there years it would work out great and produce a fun football season? Absolutely. But it would be really rough for our down cycle years (unless you are of the opinion that we will not have those anymore) and near impossible for some of our non-revenue sports. Just my thought. I was of the opinion up through about 2007 that we could and should compete in the FL. Since then, enrollment is too far down for that to make sense for us and it does show significant trends upward anytime soon, if ever. I prefer the present method of scheduling 2 or 3 during their off week each season.

I do not think closing Aquinas would have a large effect on Central's overall enrollment. Aquinas has 185 students this year. The senior class is the largest in the school at 75 students or so. So, if you take away the senior class at Aquinas (which is about 40% of their total enrollment), you have about 110-115 underclassmen/students in play. For more detail, the freshmen class is 35 kids and the middle school has about 100 kids in it. As I stated in a post earlier this school year, the latest projections have Aquinas at 155 by 2020 and Central at 310 by 2020.

So, to address the hypothetical of what IF Aquinas were to close and what effect would that have on Central, I do not think that you would see a significant enrollment bump at Central. Assuming Aquinas has about 115 frosh through juniors, if the school closed, I would estimate that we would get 30%, 40% tops. The others would go to publics or the Akron privates, maybe even Lake Christian. Some people despise Central and would not be able to swallow it. Fine. Those thoughts are what they are and I'm sure we have people like that too should we be closed and told to head east. So that is an increase of only 35-45 students.

However, the main benefit I see is this: A SINGULAR focus on Catholic secondary education in this county GOING FORWARD. We would be allowing the community to focus on one catholic secondary institution going forward, both for families looking for options and funders wanting to make sure they are not throwing money down a hole. I'm not sure that works but I am positive what we have is not working so I'm willing to try something new.

FWIW, yet another committee has been formed to study consolidation and Aquinas has stopped their capital campaign practically immediately after starting the quiet phase and major/lead gift solicitation. Not a good sign.
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  #69  
Old 01-30-17, 03:27 PM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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Originally Posted by Starkbuck View Post
I personally do not think that joining the Federal League would be beneficial for CCC at all. I think that they can compete with these teams, but unless the depth of their team were to increase by about 75%, there's no way to survive that grind. Additionally, I think having a couple regular rivalries, Jackson and Perry, adds to the dramatic flair of the season. These kids look forward to these games and more often than not, the games do not disappoint.
I agree, SB. Week in and week out, year after year, we are no longer equipped to compete. My opinion and sure wish I was wrong.
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  #70  
Old 01-30-17, 04:11 PM
THESHADOW14 THESHADOW14 is offline
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I agree, SB. Week in and week out, year after year, we are no longer equipped to compete. My opinion and sure wish I was wrong.
All wrong!!

Do you guys really think that the Federal League is that POWERFUL that CCHS kids would break and crumble from weekly poundings?

Come on.... you are all kidding me right?

CCHS could play a full Federal League schedule every year!!!... I am not saying they would win the Federal League every year but they would Compete Every game and have a winning percentage over the years.... and believe it our not.... Probably win a Fed Title along the way...along with another State Title!

This wont happen - but I tell you all - CCHS in Fed would bring CCHS school enrollment BACK!... guarantee!! - (from what I understand Financial Aid is always available for deserving families)

Hats off to CCHS coaching staff - what a GREAT job for years and years and...

Federal League is Great Respected High School football no question, but Crusaders could hang no question in my mind.... But you all know I am a homer...
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  #71  
Old 01-30-17, 04:12 PM
The Veer The Veer is offline
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Originally Posted by THESHADOW14 View Post
Now - the truth - the last time CC played Pups I think was 1997 and Pups beat us up pretty good - I mean real good!.... Well, Pups were #1 in USA that year, remember??
Yeah, that was a beat down !! CC was the first team to score on their starting D that year and it was week 6

However that game wasnt nearly as bad as the Mck - STA game that year.... which was McK 70 to 0 at Halftime.
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  #72  
Old 01-30-17, 04:21 PM
THESHADOW14 THESHADOW14 is offline
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Yeah, that was a beat down !! CC was the first team to score on their starting D that year and it was week 6

However that game wasnt nearly as bad as the Mck - STA game that year.... which was McK 70 to 0 at Halftime.
correct - I was at that game and we did score TD on their First Team D - and I remember that was such a big thing at that time.

believe me - I have watched CC play McK every time and we had them beat at least 2 other times before we beat them in 1988. (and unless you were the holder on that FG I say it was a Fumble scamper TD - )

Play the Pups again - and throw in Massillon while you are at it...cause my Fed League option will never happen for Crusaders!
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  #73  
Old 01-30-17, 04:24 PM
The Veer The Veer is offline
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Originally Posted by THESHADOW14 View Post
All wrong!!

Do you guys really think that the Federal League is that POWERFUL that CCHS kids would break and crumble from weekly poundings?
NO, i dont think CCHS would break and crumble, we have had some very comparable schedules in the past. Im sure many of the games would be competitive, however during the down years things could get ugly.

Definitely think we have proved we can compete with the FED the past few seasons, but i cannot say what we have seen recently is the norm... hopefully it is the new norm.

I could see an increase in enrollment, maybe up to the lower end D3 or D4 level but never to the level we saw in the 60's.
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  #74  
Old 01-30-17, 04:27 PM
The Veer The Veer is offline
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Originally Posted by THESHADOW14 View Post
correct - I was at that game and we did score TD on their First Team D - and I remember that was such a big thing at that time.

believe me - I have watched CC play McK every time and we had them beat at least 2 other times before we beat them in 1988. (and unless you were the holder on that FG I say it was a Fumble scamper TD - )

Play the Pups again - and throw in Massillon while you are at it...cause my Fed League option will never happen for Crusaders!
I was on the field... so i was at the game too !! It was 24-6 there for a bit

I seem to remember OT in 94 and or 95. Fake punt by McKinley to tie it one of those years. 2 or 3 close games in a row. Close game in 96 i think? and the 97 game was what it was. Im sure Slip has more info on those games.
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  #75  
Old 01-30-17, 04:52 PM
THESHADOW14 THESHADOW14 is offline
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Originally Posted by The Veer View Post
NO, i dont think CCHS would break and crumble, we have had some very comparable schedules in the past. Im sure many of the games would be competitive, however during the down years things could get ugly.

Definitely think we have proved we can compete with the FED the past few seasons, but i cannot say what we have seen recently is the norm... hopefully it is the new norm.

I could see an increase in enrollment, maybe up to the lower end D3 or D4 level but never to the level we saw in the 60's.
unless Tuition goes to $150 a year
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  #76  
Old 01-31-17, 12:29 PM
Starkbuck Starkbuck is offline
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Originally Posted by THESHADOW14 View Post
All wrong!!

Do you guys really think that the Federal League is that POWERFUL that CCHS kids would break and crumble from weekly poundings?

Come on.... you are all kidding me right?

CCHS could play a full Federal League schedule every year!!!... I am not saying they would win the Federal League every year but they would Compete Every game and have a winning percentage over the years.... and believe it our not.... Probably win a Fed Title along the way...along with another State Title!

This wont happen - but I tell you all - CCHS in Fed would bring CCHS school enrollment BACK!... guarantee!! - (from what I understand Financial Aid is always available for deserving families)

Hats off to CCHS coaching staff - what a GREAT job for years and years and...

Federal League is Great Respected High School football no question, but Crusaders could hang no question in my mind.... But you all know I am a homer...
As much as I would love to see it, I cannot see how CCC could hang week in and week out in the Federal League. CCC possesses as much skill as anyone, but their depth is very questionable. They have been the benefactors of staying healthy the past three years, which allowed for state title runs. If they were to play a schedule of all division 1 and 2 schools, the wear and tear would be so significant that they would ultimately suffer by the end of the year.

Could they hang? Yes. Could they win enough games year in and year out to qualify for playoffs? Possibly. Could they get through their schedule without injury and play deep into the playoffs yearly? Doubtful.

With regards to depth, this upcoming senior class is comprised of seven football players. They originally had nine come out as freshman, and will be the smallest in several years on this team. Things like that happen at a Catholic school and that would be a true test of their depth in that Federal League grind.
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  #77  
Old 01-31-17, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by THESHADOW14 View Post
All wrong!!

Do you guys really think that the Federal League is that POWERFUL that CCHS kids would break and crumble from weekly poundings?

Come on.... you are all kidding me right?

CCHS could play a full Federal League schedule every year!!!... I am not saying they would win the Federal League every year but they would Compete Every game and have a winning percentage over the years.... and believe it our not.... Probably win a Fed Title along the way...along with another State Title!

This wont happen - but I tell you all - CCHS in Fed would bring CCHS school enrollment BACK!... guarantee!! - (from what I understand Financial Aid is always available for deserving families)

Hats off to CCHS coaching staff - what a GREAT job for years and years and...

Federal League is Great Respected High School football no question, but Crusaders could hang no question in my mind.... But you all know I am a homer...

It requires a lot of quality bodies to play competent DI and DII schools week in and week out. You won't get many running clocks in those games to reduce wear and tear on key players. Even this year's state title team was a couple injuries away from being very average. See the Akron Garfield game where a couple starters were held out due to minor injuries.


It's all moot anyway. The Fed isn't looking to add Central. If the Fed did, Central would not compete regularly for league titles outside of maybe baseball (I'm assuming the new coach can keep the winning tradition rolling) and golf. Girls' sports would have an especially tough time finishing above midpack on a consistent basis.

Last edited by Mr. Slippery; 01-31-17 at 01:30 PM.
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  #78  
Old 01-31-17, 01:13 PM
Bandit22 Bandit22 is offline
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I wouldn't and don't expect CCC to be in a league such as the Fed. There were some rumblings of Louisville and CCC getting some schools together during the "outing" of the leps from the NBC. While both teams would be tough games in the FED I don't see where either would benefit as an athletic program - would love to see these two join some others and form a league.

my dream league
CCC Marlington Canton South New Philly
Louisville Alliance Dover Carrollton

would have included STA but not sure how long they would be around
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  #79  
Old 01-31-17, 01:25 PM
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I was on the field... so i was at the game too !! It was 24-6 there for a bit

I seem to remember OT in 94 and or 95. Fake punt by McKinley to tie it one of those years. 2 or 3 close games in a row. Close game in 96 i think? and the 97 game was what it was. Im sure Slip has more info on those games.

The whole CC-McKinley series

1963 McK 36-8 - This was the year after McK football suffered the "death penalty." CC scheduled this initial game in an attempt to show that it could play with the local big boys.
1964 McK 27-6
1965 McK 15-8
1966 McK 50-6
1967 McK 44-6
1968 McK 7-6 - The story I always heard was that CC's RB got hurt during the game, and CC's chances of winning the game went with him.
1985 McK 19-9 - Many speculated that CC was trying to cherry pick this game before it was played (because CC had a great team that year), but as Klinefelter pointed out, the game was scheduled a couple years earlier because he was tired of making long road trips. Not sure what his beef was as I found only 2 trips to Marietta, 2 to East Palestine, 1 to Steubenville, 1 to Loudonville, and 1 to Columbus as the long ones during the 1st 10 years of his tenure. Methinks he got spoiled his 1st 5 years as HC when his longest road trip was either West Branch or Walsh Jesuit.
1986 McK 26-23 - CC let this one get away in the 4th quarter.
1988 CC 9-6
1992 McK 27-7
1993 McK 27-0
1994 McK 21-14 (OT) - McK got a late TD to send it to OT.
1995 McK 13-7 (OT) - Same as '94. A late McK TD sent it to OT.
1996 McK 14-0 - That was the 4th consecutive game that CC was shut out during that season.
1997 McK 51-12 - CC played Massillon the following week.
1998 McK 31-14

Incidentally, 1963 was the final season before St. Thomas Aquinas opened, so all Catholic HS kids in Stark County were attending CC at that time. Yes, there was a time when Stark County only had 1 Catholic HS. IIRC, STA added a grade each year after it opened, so even though STA opened in '64, CC and STA didn't start playing until the fall of '67 as STA did not have a senior class until then. CC had over 1700 students in the fall of 1963. Imagine trying to navigate that 2nd floor hallway with that many kids in the building! STA was built to accommodate 1600 students. I'm guessing it topped out at somewhere between 1000 and 1200 students.

Could we be approaching the pre-1964 Catholic HS setup again in Stark County? I hope not, but the harsh reality is that everything has its useful life whether it be a product, a person doing a certain occupation, a building, etc.

Last edited by Mr. Slippery; 01-31-17 at 06:41 PM. Reason: sloppy grammar
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  #80  
Old 01-31-17, 01:37 PM
Bandit22 Bandit22 is offline
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just don't ever let them change their helmets!
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  #81  
Old 01-31-17, 01:46 PM
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just don't ever let them change their helmets!
If you're talking about CC, I agree. I've always liked the '60s NY Jets-looking logos.
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  #82  
Old 01-31-17, 02:59 PM
The Veer The Veer is offline
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If you're talking about CC, I agree. I've always liked the '60s NY Jets-looking logos.
Very similar to the current Jets helmet as well.

Was always proud rolling around town as a kid in HS with the CC Helmet logo on my back window.

Thanks for the Series figures Slip... thought i was right about those OT games. Mck squeaked it out both those years.
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  #83  
Old 01-31-17, 04:46 PM
THESHADOW14 THESHADOW14 is offline
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It requires a lot of quality bodies to play competent DI and DII schools week in and week out. You won't get many running clocks in those games to reduce wear and tear on key players. Even this year's state title team was a couple injuries away from being very average. See the Akron Garfield game where a couple starters were held out due to minor injuries.


It's all moot anyway. The Fed isn't looking to add Central. If the Fed did, Central would not compete regularly for league titles outside of maybe baseball (I'm assuming the new coach can keep the winning tradition rolling) and golf. Girls' sports would have an especially tough time finishing above midpack on a consistent basis.
I tried...

from what you say/share/know my friend and declining attendance... well...
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  #84  
Old 01-31-17, 06:35 PM
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Very similar to the current Jets helmet as well.

Was always proud rolling around town as a kid in HS with the CC Helmet logo on my back window.

Thanks for the Series figures Slip... thought i was right about those OT games. Mck squeaked it out both those years.
Your memory is in excellent shape. I'm rather jealous.

Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that I have always admired that '97 team of which you were a member. With the schedule that team faced, not many of us gave that team much of a chance to win more than 3 or 4 games, let alone make the playoffs and win a playoff game under the old 4-team per region format. That 4-game stretch from McKinley through Orrville was as brutal as any the team has ever faced, playoffs included. My 2nd favorite Crusader team was Kinefelter's final squad that was crippled by preseason injuries, especially at the QB position, yet still produced a 5-5 record.

Last edited by Mr. Slippery; 01-31-17 at 06:50 PM.
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  #85  
Old 02-01-17, 11:55 AM
The Veer The Veer is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
Your memory is in excellent shape. I'm rather jealous.

Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that I have always admired that '97 team of which you were a member. With the schedule that team faced, not many of us gave that team much of a chance to win more than 3 or 4 games, let alone make the playoffs and win a playoff game under the old 4-team per region format. That 4-game stretch from McKinley through Orrville was as brutal as any the team has ever faced, playoffs included. My 2nd favorite Crusader team was Kinefelter's final squad that was crippled by preseason injuries, especially at the QB position, yet still produced a 5-5 record.
I always thought that year we may have had one of the toughest D4 schedules ever put together. As a senior on that team, i may be biased. We also played Mooney the week before McKinley, now that is a crazy 5 game stretch. The Best feelings i took from that season was beating StV @ Green St, beating Mooney and making the playoffs while running all over 10-0 Wickliffe in that 1st round game. Nobody was even giving us a chance in that game since we were only 6-4, said we didnt belong but we proved those people wrong. The Manchester game was a tough one to lose, but i also wont forget that game, in the snow at the bowl. Cant deny i was really hoping to see Benedictine the next week who gave us a beat down a year earlier. Thank you and some great memories for sure.
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  #86  
Old 02-01-17, 04:28 PM
THESHADOW14 THESHADOW14 is offline
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I always thought that year we may have had one of the toughest D4 schedules ever put together. As a senior on that team, i may be biased. We also played Mooney the week before McKinley, now that is a crazy 5 game stretch. The Best feelings i took from that season was beating StV @ Green St, beating Mooney and making the playoffs while running all over 10-0 Wickliffe in that 1st round game. Nobody was even giving us a chance in that game since we were only 6-4, said we didnt belong but we proved those people wrong. The Manchester game was a tough one to lose, but i also wont forget that game, in the snow at the bowl. Cant deny i was really hoping to see Benedictine the next week who gave us a beat down a year earlier. Thank you and some great memories for sure.
First of all - so happy that fellow Crusaders have a thread for us to talk about even in off-season - kudos to all participants

Now my young friend - I was at the game in Rubber Bowl and man was the weather terrible - think our QB knocked out of game and went to backup - if my memory is correct at my old age... You had a solid CC team and you should be proud for sure for sure!... I think there was a big play in that game 114 slant maybe??
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Old 02-01-17, 04:59 PM
The Veer The Veer is offline
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First of all - so happy that fellow Crusaders have a thread for us to talk about even in off-season - kudos to all participants

Now my young friend - I was at the game in Rubber Bowl and man was the weather terrible - think our QB knocked out of game and went to backup - if my memory is correct at my old age... You had a solid CC team and you should be proud for sure for sure!... I think there was a big play in that game 114 slant maybe??
Good Memory... Bojo broke his thumb in the 2nd quarter, we had to go to the Sophomore backup. Wore the same short sleeve T-shirt for every game that year... i walked out with just that T-Shirt on for warm ups, it was a terrible idea !! I knew some of the younger kids wanted to get back on the bus when they first walked out.

I remember a CCC throw to the endzone that was dropped in the 1st half, would have put us up as it was 0-0 at that time. Manchester was up @ half 6-0 after a fake punt for a TD. We didnt have any offense in the 2nd half.

Great times, always proud to call myself a CCC alum !!
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  #88  
Old 02-01-17, 06:46 PM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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Originally Posted by The Veer View Post
Good Memory... Bojo broke his thumb in the 2nd quarter, we had to go to the Sophomore backup. Wore the same short sleeve T-shirt for every game that year... i walked out with just that T-Shirt on for warm ups, it was a terrible idea !! I knew some of the younger kids wanted to get back on the bus when they first walked out.

I remember a CCC throw to the endzone that was dropped in the 1st half, would have put us up as it was 0-0 at that time. Manchester was up @ half 6-0 after a fake punt for a TD. We didnt have any offense in the 2nd half.

Great times, always proud to call myself a CCC alum !!
Jon Butchko was the back-up and just seemed overwhelmed by the moment and the speed of the game.
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Old 02-02-17, 09:02 AM
The Veer The Veer is offline
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Originally Posted by Stark Born & Bred View Post
Jon Butchko was the back-up and just seemed overwhelmed by the moment and the speed of the game.
I would agree with that assessment, but to be fair I dont know that he saw 10 snaps on Varsity all year vs starters (got reps in some blowouts) and he was about a foot shorter than Bojo. Still proud of what we accomplished that season, especially considering the schedule and what Coach K had to work with.
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  #90  
Old 02-02-17, 03:44 PM
THESHADOW14 THESHADOW14 is offline
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Is any of our kids going to college to pursue football - besides the Navy young man?

We all know that Academics is # 1 priority though!
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