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  #1  
Old 12-15-17, 08:22 AM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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Garfield Heights - State Championship favorite, NO SO FAST

Last week when Garfield Heights blew out lowly Cleveland JFK people on Twitter were blowing up saying to just give them the trophy. Since than they have beat a bad Shaw team, a good Benedictine team and a bad Euclid team. Here is the interesting thing. Benedictine is a solid squad and they only beat them by 6 - despite Meechie Johnson scoring 50 points. Benedictine was also playing their first game while Heights had a few games under their belt. The more headshaking game was Euclid. The Panthers were beaten badly and run out of the gym against VASJ - yet Garfield only beat the Panthers by 16 points. That was with Gaffney going off for 31.

What I'm saying is that Garfield Heights is loaded but it takes more than talent to win a state championship. This is no slam on Benedictine or Euclid but their are better teams in NE Ohio that Garfield will need to get past to reach Columbus. I think teams like Ed's, Shaker and others will have a lot to say about how far Garfield goes. Even with all the talent it will eventually come down to Sonny Johnson having to coach in a tight game - that will be a big equalizer. He is a great self promoter and recruiter - but he is not an elite X and O's coach. I would not be so sure they are the favorites. Ask me how I feel after the upcoming Shaker Heights game.
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  #2  
Old 12-15-17, 08:56 AM
3out2in 3out2in is offline
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Agree about Sonny. Anyone that was saying give them the trophy knows very little about high school basketball. They may win it, but there's a whole lot of good teams out there including the state runner-up Moeller who is a hell of a lot better at tournament basketball than Garfield has proven to be over the years. Also, consider that it was twitter, the lowest common denominator of our society.
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  #3  
Old 12-15-17, 09:38 AM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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The people on Twitter I usually take with a grain of salt but 3rdCoast and others who follow HS hoops were doing it. That is what surprised me. I don't talk or know much about teams outside of NE Ohio but I know enough to know there are really good squads state wide. NE Ohio alone is loaded in several divisions.
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  #4  
Old 12-15-17, 12:49 PM
brusharc1986 brusharc1986 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
Last week when Garfield Heights blew out lowly Cleveland JFK people on Twitter were blowing up saying to just give them the trophy. Since than they have beat a bad Shaw team, a good Benedictine team and a bad Euclid team. Here is the interesting thing. Benedictine is a solid squad and they only beat them by 6 - despite Meechie Johnson scoring 50 points. Benedictine was also playing their first game while Heights had a few games under their belt. The more headshaking game was Euclid. The Panthers were beaten badly and run out of the gym against VASJ - yet Garfield only beat the Panthers by 16 points. That was with Gaffney going off for 31.

What I'm saying is that Garfield Heights is loaded but it takes more than talent to win a state championship. This is no slam on Benedictine or Euclid but their are better teams in NE Ohio that Garfield will need to get past to reach Columbus. I think teams like Ed's, Shaker and others will have a lot to say about how far Garfield goes. Even with all the talent it will eventually come down to Sonny Johnson having to coach in a tight game - that will be a big equalizer. He is a great self promoter and recruiter - but he is not an elite X and O's coach. I would not be so sure they are the favorites. Ask me how I feel after the upcoming Shaker Heights game.
I'd caution the casual basketball fan like yourself to resort to comparative scoring. So and so beat so and so by so many points so X must be true. It sounds like you are being a hater on Garfield Hts., it's coach, and it's program. Then again, if you got haters that's GOOD.
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  #5  
Old 12-15-17, 04:06 PM
Myron Myron is offline
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At some point in the post season, he will get out coached, and his AAU program outplayed, by a less talented team
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  #6  
Old 12-15-17, 10:57 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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While I have not agreed with the tactics of people like Sonny Johnson and Jeff Rotsky - I don't hate them. What I DON'T agree with is that after one week people are crowning a team a no doubt State Champ. There is a ton of basketball left and there is always some kind of attrition that happens with injuries, grades, etc. Some teams will get better, some will stay the same and some will get worse. NOBODY knows what will happen in March. Garfield Heights will absolutely be in the mix but to say they are a lock is disrespectful to the other really good teams in the area. D1 in NE Ohio is brutal and whoever comes out will really have to earn it. If Garfield Heights does happen to win state I will tip my hat. But before you can win state you need to get to state.
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  #7  
Old 12-15-17, 11:27 PM
CCA Fan CCA Fan is offline
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Sonny Sonny Sonny

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
While I have not agreed with the tactics of people like Sonny Johnson and Jeff Rotsky - I don't hate them. What I DON'T agree with is that after one week people are crowning a team a no doubt State Champ. There is a ton of basketball left and there is always some kind of attrition that happens with injuries, grades, etc. Some teams will get better, some will stay the same and some will get worse. NOBODY knows what will happen in March. Garfield Heights will absolutely be in the mix but to say they are a lock is disrespectful to the other really good teams in the area. D1 in NE Ohio is brutal and whoever comes out will really have to earn it. If Garfield Heights does happen to win state I will tip my hat. But before you can win state you need to get to state.
Always have much respect for Bball216. Serious VASJ homer and let's say it like it is..... Sonny stole Zo from Babe and it bothers the VASJ faithful. I candidly don't blame them but what are you going to do about it? Welcome to the culture of me, me, me.

Team, God, Me,..... almost laughable.

Sonny understands today's players. Relates. Has a serious middle school pipeline of talent walking into his gym every year. Does a GREAT job of connecting with college coaches for his players. Graves a D2 player? No way but Sonny got it done. Does a great job "PR-ing" his guys and program. The attention on his program right now is nothing short of fabulous and candidly it is good for all of us in the NEO.

However, Sonny playing Senate league teams? Why?
Next year he will have two family members as stars on the squad. Does that make it difficult to continue to lure other guards to his program?

Finally, make no mistake. Flannery will coach circles around Sonny from and Xs and Os standpoint and Eds is VERY good. Sonny will get his guys to play hard for him but let's see what happens when they are down in a big ball game. A game where each possession is valued in the 4th quarter.

I agree that Garfield Heights is LOADED with talent. Did I hear 8 D1 players in the program?!? Look how many D1 hoopers Mentor has in the HISTORY of their program (3?). BUT they will have four really tough games in a row to get to states, beating teams like Solon, Mentor, Shaker, Bene, Eds, Iggy, .... is no small task.
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  #8  
Old 12-16-17, 12:01 AM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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CCA Fan - Happy Holidays. True I'm a Joe's fan - but I'm a HS hoops junkie. Do I think Zo made a mistake and did he leave a HUGE hole in the Viking lineup - sure. I think his Dad was a major influence in him leaving Joe's. With that being said it's pretty funny that every high level transfer seems to end up at Garfield. I cannot wait for the playoffs. It's going to be awesome.
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  #9  
Old 12-16-17, 01:57 AM
eaglepride eaglepride is offline
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Check out MaxPreps top 25 poll and what they had to say about Garfield Heights.

www.MaxPreps.com
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  #10  
Old 12-16-17, 08:02 AM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
CCA Fan - Happy Holidays. True I'm a Joe's fan - but I'm a HS hoops junkie. Do I think Zo made a mistake and did he leave a HUGE hole in the Viking lineup - sure. I think his Dad was a major influence in him leaving Joe's. With that being said it's pretty funny that every high level transfer seems to end up at Garfield. I cannot wait for the playoffs. It's going to be awesome.
This thread was started by the "Joe's fan" and not the "HS hoops junkie." And sadly, this is not the first time, as you've had it out for and lodged insults towards just about every high-profile student-athlete that has left VASJ in the past few years. It's eating at you that the latest departure is finding great success and notoriety at his new school, which is the real reason why we have a whole thread dedicated to a team that VASJ doesn't play and wouldn't see in the postseason.

In regards to player movement, we have had de facto "free agency" for top basketball players in Northeast Ohio for awhile now. It's nothing new and all of the top programs (yes, even VASJ and CCA) play the game. There are few teams in this area that have found great success by simply winning the Xs and Os game. Sort of obvious to point this out, but you don't get to Columbus without talent.
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  #11  
Old 12-16-17, 10:20 AM
satriani satriani is offline
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Regardless of the player movement debate, Garfield Heights has the talent to get to Columbus. The questions in my mind are:

1) Are there enough basketballs to go around?
2) Will they commit to playing team defense/offense when they face top teams in the tournament?
3) Can they keep their egos in check with the press/notoriety the team will get over the course of a year?

That being said, I think 3 of the 4 teams to make it to Columbus will be:

Moeller (I think they win it all)
Pickerington North
Garfield Heights

FWIW

Good luck and good health to all of the teams and players!
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  #12  
Old 12-16-17, 11:13 AM
Unlimited Potential Unlimited Potential is offline
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Euclid hung with Solon last night pretty well and Bene had a pretty convincing win over Central Catholic.

I'd say Euclid is better than they performed against VASJ.
Bene is a legit top 5 team in the area.

Shaker looks good.
Ed's is rolling without 2 top guys.
Garfield has been without a top guy.
Guess scores 57.

It's been a great year of HS hoops so far.
Should be very fun week to week.
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  #13  
Old 12-16-17, 12:29 PM
GCP441 GCP441 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
Last week when Garfield Heights blew out lowly Cleveland JFK people on Twitter were blowing up saying to just give them the trophy. Since than they have beat a bad Shaw team, a good Benedictine team and a bad Euclid team. Here is the interesting thing. Benedictine is a solid squad and they only beat them by 6 - despite Meechie Johnson scoring 50 points. Benedictine was also playing their first game while Heights had a few games under their belt. The more headshaking game was Euclid. The Panthers were beaten badly and run out of the gym against VASJ - yet Garfield only beat the Panthers by 16 points. That was with Gaffney going off for 31.

What I'm saying is that Garfield Heights is loaded but it takes more than talent to win a state championship. This is no slam on Benedictine or Euclid but their are better teams in NE Ohio that Garfield will need to get past to reach Columbus. I think teams like Ed's, Shaker and others will have a lot to say about how far Garfield goes. Even with all the talent it will eventually come down to Sonny Johnson having to coach in a tight game - that will be a big equalizer. He is a great self promoter and recruiter - but he is not an elite X and O's coach. I would not be so sure they are the favorites. Ask me how I feel after the upcoming Shaker Heights game.

I couldn't of agreed with you more,Sonny Johnson brought his whole team to watch the Heights St Ignatius game,it want matter how much talent he had transferred to Garfield,you just can't transfer coaching skills in certain situations.
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  #14  
Old 12-16-17, 01:29 PM
Unlimited Potential Unlimited Potential is offline
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Wait, didn't Garfield lose in the state semifinal to Westerville South 2 years in a row and St. Ed in overtime in regional final last year. Final 4, Final 4, Final 8 in the last 3 years. I would say their coach has improved a lot since the earlier years of losing early in the tournament. Sure he is no Flannery, but think you guys might be short changing him a bit here.
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  #15  
Old 12-16-17, 07:52 PM
bigv bigv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unlimited Potential View Post
Wait, didn't Garfield lose in the state semifinal to Westerville South 2 years in a row and St. Ed in overtime in regional final last year. Final 4, Final 4, Final 8 in the last 3 years. I would say their coach has improved a lot since the earlier years of losing early in the tournament. Sure he is no Flannery, but think you guys might be short changing him a bit here.
Haters
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  #16  
Old 12-16-17, 08:39 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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This thread has zero to do with VASj - yet Benny likes to turn anything I post into that. Maybe you should look at what was said after Garfield blasted teams like JFK and Shaw. Garfield very well might reach Columbus - but I'm not alone based on some responses in thinking it's no guarantee. Benny should be insulted that after the great effort his Bengals put forth against Garfield that nobody gives them a chance. They have athletes and coaching this year that can hang with damn near anybody. In fact after seeing Mentor last night Benny and Solon might be the Euclid District favorites early in the season.

I just think this year the D1 teams at the upper level are really good. Sure on paper Garfield has the talent advantage and until proven otherwise they are the favorites - state champ favorite, that is a bit early. I have not seen Ed's yet but I will once they get healthy. They are playing well and are shorthanded. The Shaker vs Garfield game will be a good indicator on Weds. I have seen both squads and I think Garfield beats Shaker. I cannot wait to see how D1 plays out this year. The one thing I will tell you is that the more you win, the more people build you up and higher you climb in the rankings - the pressure increases as well and so does the target on your back.
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  #17  
Old 12-17-17, 09:14 AM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
This thread has zero to do with VASj - yet Benny likes to turn anything I post into that. Maybe you should look at what was said after Garfield blasted teams like JFK and Shaw. Garfield very well might reach Columbus - but I'm not alone based on some responses in thinking it's no guarantee. Benny should be insulted that after the great effort his Bengals put forth against Garfield that nobody gives them a chance. They have athletes and coaching this year that can hang with damn near anybody. In fact after seeing Mentor last night Benny and Solon might be the Euclid District favorites early in the season.
You almost certainly wouldn't have started this thread if your beloved VASJ hadn't lost a big-time transfer to Garfield.

In regards to Benedictine, plenty of people give them a chance which is why they're one of the top-ranked teams in the city. Just because you don't give them a chance doesn't mean that others feel the same way.
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Old 12-17-17, 09:28 AM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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How do you get Benny does not have a chance from my post after I just said that the Bengals along with Solon are the early favorites in the Euclid District ? The tread has zero to do with anything other than people predicting a team to waltz to the state championship one week into the season. I know you don't think so but I watch as many non VASJ games as I do Viking games - or more. There are a lot of very good teams in NE Ohio - especially in D1 and D2.
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  #19  
Old 12-18-17, 05:47 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
How do you get Benny does not have a chance from my post after I just said that the Bengals along with Solon are the early favorites in the Euclid District ?
You wrote off Benedictine two weeks ago. See your quote below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
It will be interesting to see how long the Bengals stay in the tough Euclid D1 district. I'm guessing one or two rounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
The tread has zero to do with anything other than people predicting a team to waltz to the state championship one week into the season. I know you don't think so but I watch as many non VASJ games as I do Viking games - or more.
I think you have an ulterior motive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
There are a lot of very good teams in NE Ohio - especially in D1 and D2.
Almost all of them are in D1, but yes, you're right, it won't be easy for any team to win a district title, let alone get to Columbus.
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Old 12-18-17, 06:05 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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Benny - I honestly thought at first Benny would struggle with the move to D1. After seeing that the offseason talk was true and Benny is as good as some said they would be combined with what I witnessed from Mentor - I was wrong. The Bengals has a serious chance to get out of Euclid. Solon is tough but beatable as are the Cardinals and Arcs. Granted those teams all play tough schedules and will get better - but not better than Benny's schedule. If they stay healthy the Bengals will have as good a shot as anybody. I'm sorry I underestimated your squad.
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  #21  
Old 12-20-17, 09:47 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Garfield 85, Shaker 82

Interesting game that I was able to watch streaming online. I'll check back in later with some thoughts.
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  #22  
Old 12-20-17, 09:59 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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I streamed it as well. Shaker was rolling until Guess got hurt and missed the entire 4th quarter. Once he left the court so did all Shakers confidence. Nobody seemed to want to shoot and the Raiders became very tight. It's almost like they went into a stall the whole final quarter. They didn't but their style of play made it appear that way. They played not to lose - and lost.

I'm convinced if Guess plays the whole game Shaker wins. Garfield really struggled with the press. I saw Shaker last week and was not overly impressed - tonight I was through 3 quarters. When things get tough Garfield leans on a freshman in Meechie Johnson. That tells you how talented and beyond his years he is. Shaker has to be sick for choking away a 20pt lead.D1 is wide open. I will stick with my prediction of Ed's being the favorite.
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  #23  
Old 12-20-17, 10:52 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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One other thing I'll add is that while Guess played most of the game (and if he finished it I agree that Shaker would have won), Garfield was once again missing one of its talented starting forwards who I think could have impacted the game. This may have been a preview of a potential Solon district title game, which I still think Garfield will win if both teams are healthy.

As for St. Edward, not having seen them play and only looking at scores, I'm not sure they've done anything to place them as favorites in Ohio, let alone Greater Cleveland.
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Old 12-21-17, 04:04 AM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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I like Ed's when they get healthy. They have been winning without their best player. That being said I agree that Garfield is missing one of its best players and when you add him into the mix with Meechie and Alonzo - they are going to be even more of a handful. Last nights game was like a playoff game in the attendance and intensity. There where some athletes on the floor. I agree this will be the Solon final and if round two is as good as round one was count me in.
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Old 12-21-17, 08:13 AM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
I like Ed's when they get healthy. They have been winning without their best player. That being said I agree that Garfield is missing one of its best players and when you add him into the mix with Meechie and Alonzo - they are going to be even more of a handful. Last nights game was like a playoff game in the attendance and intensity. There where some athletes on the floor. I agree this will be the Solon final and if round two is as good as round one was count me in.
Who is missing for Eds? That makes their wins over Cornerstone and Brush more impressive, though I'm not sure either of those teams is as good as Benedictine or Shaker.
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  #26  
Old 12-21-17, 08:50 AM
EaglePride01 EaglePride01 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bennies'01 View Post
Who is missing for Eds? That makes their wins over Cornerstone and Brush more impressive, though I'm not sure either of those teams is as good as Benedictine or Shaker.
Grant Huffman suffered an ankle injury in the season opener. Not sure what the time table is for his return. Could be a while. Demetrius Terry just made his season debut against Brush. He had 18 coming off the bench as they work him back in the rotation. It's been an all round team effort so far this year, with scoring coming from a number of role players. I agree that no team they have played to date is at the level of Benny of Shaker (and certainly not Garfield). Cornerstone and Brush are pretty solid. Lakewood actually has some good size and talent this year as well. The holiday tournament out in San Diego will be a huge test.
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  #27  
Old 12-21-17, 11:14 AM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Grant Huffman suffered an ankle injury in the season opener. Not sure what the time table is for his return. Could be a while. Demetrius Terry just made his season debut against Brush. He had 18 coming off the bench as they work him back in the rotation. It's been an all round team effort so far this year, with scoring coming from a number of role players. I agree that no team they have played to date is at the level of Benny of Shaker (and certainly not Garfield). Cornerstone and Brush are pretty solid. Lakewood actually has some good size and talent this year as well. The holiday tournament out in San Diego will be a huge test.
Eds does play Benny in a few weeks which should tell us a little bit more about where some of these top programs in the city stand.
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  #28  
Old 12-21-17, 11:22 AM
troyboy73 troyboy73 is offline
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ole cell-phone Sonny!
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  #29  
Old 12-21-17, 12:16 PM
EaglePride01 EaglePride01 is offline
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Eds does play Benny in a few weeks which should tell us a little bit more about where some of these top programs in the city stand.
Yes, after returning home from the CA tourney Ed's will play SVSM, Benny, and then Shaker in back-to-back-to-back nights.
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Old 12-21-17, 12:19 PM
Unlimited Potential Unlimited Potential is offline
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Most of the top teams playing each other this year. Tons of good games.
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