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  #2821  
Old 06-21-18, 07:12 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Reds are two games above .500 in their last 38 games! Best team ever!
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  #2822  
Old 06-21-18, 07:30 AM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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Any long term deal is a pretty bad idea at this point. The Reds would save money with this group by allowing them to go to arbitration.
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  #2823  
Old 06-21-18, 07:36 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
I agree that we don't know what next year holds. but you missed the point, again...

- you said 'break the bank' for a #1 starter.
- arrogate said 'why spend the money if you can't contend for a championship'
- you mocked arrogate for thinking about winning a championship.



So I was asking you what your goal was in paying for a #1 starter. your answer was that the 1990 Reds were good.

it's impossible to have a conversation with you...
wolves, my point, which I seem to have to always spell out in detail to you guys...is that the difference between being good and bad is not very much in pro sports. This isn't college or high school where the distance between the best and worst is miles.
Imagine if the Reds had a starting staff who had an ERA of 4.5 instead of 6+
I get the notion that many Reds fans think the rebuild should be blown up and started over again. Not the case, this team offensively and bullpen, is good enough to contend NOW.
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  #2824  
Old 06-21-18, 07:47 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Why would the Reds even consider changing Mahle's contract?? Silliness.

So the narrative is interesting on here. We are in a rebuild. Rebuilds mean you don't worry about the cumulative record over 162 games. Is this team playing better baseball over the last 30-40 games?? Absolutely. Progress, folks, progress.
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  #2825  
Old 06-21-18, 10:48 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is online now
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
I'm guessing you would have had a similar thought about Luis Castillo last year? Very similar situation. First year in the bigs, ERA in the 3's, WHIP in the 1.1 - 1.2 range, 24 years old. Castillo has backslid a lot this year. How would we feel about that 7 year deal with him if the Reds signed him last year?

Mahle is off to a decent first few months. Why rush into a LTC with Mahle? I'd start thinking about this if he remains solid through June/July 2019.
I'd absolutely sign Castillo to a 7 year $28M deal.

Johnny Cueto showed flashes of brilliance but overall struggled his first 3 seasons. In the end he was dominant. Mahle and Castillo both have that ability.

7/$28M would be a good deal.

Locking in 40% of your rotation for the next 7 years for $8M/yr AAV is the type of gamble a small market team needs to do to compete.
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  #2826  
Old 06-21-18, 10:55 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
wolves, my point, which I seem to have to always spell out in detail to you guys...is that the difference between being good and bad is not very much in pro sports. This isn't college or high school where the distance between the best and worst is miles.
Well if that was your point, fine. What you said was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
So Arrogate, are you only concerned with winning a world series??? I simply don't get that line of thinking. How do you ever know if you are contending if you never put pieces in place??
So do you see why we don't understand you? You seem to say one thing and expect us to understand something unrelated.

Like the time on the last page when I asked you what your goal for the Reds would be if they paid for a top flight #1 starter. Your answer was "the 1990 reds won the world series". How should I interpret that answer?

Can I have whatever meds you are taking?
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  #2827  
Old 06-21-18, 11:00 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
I'd absolutely sign Castillo to a 7 year $28M deal.

Johnny Cueto showed flashes of brilliance but overall struggled his first 3 seasons. In the end he was dominant. Mahle and Castillo both have that ability.

7/$28M would be a good deal.

Locking in 40% of your rotation for the next 7 years for $8M/yr AAV is the type of gamble a small market team needs to do to compete.
Romano had a couple good starts in a row. Should we lock in 60% of the rotation?

It's like the Oprah show. You get a 7 year deal! And YOU get a 7 year deal! Everyone gets a 7 year deal!
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  #2828  
Old 06-21-18, 12:46 PM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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Happy to report indiandad just signed me to a 7-yr $25m deal to continue posting on yappi. Pretty pleased with the deal. Thanks indiandad!
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  #2829  
Old 06-21-18, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
Well if that was your point, fine. What you said was:



So do you see why we don't understand you? You seem to say one thing and expect us to understand something unrelated.

Like the time on the last page when I asked you what your goal for the Reds would be if they paid for a top flight #1 starter. Your answer was "the 1990 reds won the world series". How should I interpret that answer?

Can I have whatever meds you are taking?
I dunno, seems pretty clear to me.
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  #2830  
Old 06-21-18, 01:59 PM
PeterDragon PeterDragon is offline
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I think we should lock Riggleman up for a 7 year deal. We can get him on the cheap until 2025.
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  #2831  
Old 06-21-18, 02:17 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
Romano had a couple good starts in a row. Should we lock in 60% of the rotation?

It's like the Oprah show. You get a 7 year deal! And YOU get a 7 year deal! Everyone gets a 7 year deal!
No. Not Romano.
Mahle and Castillo absolutely.

Cueto pitched for 7 years as a Red and earned ~$37M.

7/$28M is a bargain for starting pitching.

If you wait till they are bona fide starters, the price will be much higher.

There's some risk but not much with an AAV of $4M each.

Last edited by Indiandad; 06-21-18 at 02:40 PM..
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  #2832  
Old 06-21-18, 02:27 PM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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Originally Posted by PeterDragon View Post
I think we should lock Riggleman up for a 7 year deal. We can get him on the cheap until 2025.
Id go 10 yrs on riggleman.
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  #2833  
Old 06-21-18, 06:22 PM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
No. Not Romano.
Mahle and Castillo absolutely.

Cueto pitched for 7 years as a Red and earned ~$37M.

7/$28M is a bargain for starting pitching.

If you wait till they are bona fide starters, the price will be much higher.

There's some risk but not much with an AAV of $4M each.
The same is true if you sign them too soon and they turn out to be Homer Bailey. That's how you turn a 4 year rebuild into a 10 year rebuild.
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  #2834  
Old 06-21-18, 06:45 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is online now
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Originally Posted by Gh0st View Post
The same is true if you sign them too soon and they turn out to be Homer Bailey. That's how you turn a 4 year rebuild into a 10 year rebuild.
$4M a year should never be a difference between success and failure for a MLB team.

Homer signed a 6 year $105M deal.
I'm suggesting 7 yrs/$28M.
The two aren't even in the same universe.
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  #2835  
Old 06-22-18, 01:36 AM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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I understand it could end up being a great deal for the Reds. 7 years for $28M is unheard of for a top end SP. But the organization would also be basing that on 20 starts where the longest he's been able to go is 6.1 innings. It also doesn't make sense for him to agree to such a deal. Sure he'd get the guaranteed money but it'd be ludicrous to think he'd make less than $28M over his arbitration years plus the additional 2 years you've added in your offer. He'd most likely make that in his arbitration years alone. If I'm Tyler I'd laugh at any offer under $50M for seven years at the rates SP are paid today. And I'm making the final two years player/team options with a buyout of about $5M for each. Homer and Tyler would have comparable stats at the point Bailey signed his extension and I'm sure his camp would expect to be rewarded in a similar fashion. GRANTED...Homer's deal's widely considered the worst one a team's made for a SP in modern baseball. It was made at a time when the Reds knew they weren't going to be able to retain some of their most skilled players. Their window to win was very small and the Votto and Bailey deals were going to handcuff nearly half their payroll for the foreseeable future. Sorry for rambling there.

In other Reds news it appears Nick Senzel has again been handcuffed to 2B after he spent his weekend trying out SS and 3B. If the Reds plan to keep Scooter the rest of this year then I don't have the slightest clue why Nick isn't playing a corner OF position or SS on a daily basis. It's his only path to the majors. Perhaps he simply can't play those positions. And the Reds would never admit that.

India continues to look good for Florida in the CWS. I really hope his last game in the infield is whenever the Gators run in the tournament ends. There's no path for him to get to the league in the infield. Let him learn a corner OF position and develop.
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  #2836  
Old 06-22-18, 08:02 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianwr112 View Post
I understand it could end up being a great deal for the Reds. 7 years for $28M is unheard of for a top end SP. But the organization would also be basing that on 20 starts where the longest he's been able to go is 6.1 innings. It also doesn't make sense for him to agree to such a deal. Sure he'd get the guaranteed money but it'd be ludicrous to think he'd make less than $28M over his arbitration years plus the additional 2 years you've added in your offer. He'd most likely make that in his arbitration years alone. If I'm Tyler I'd laugh at any offer under $50M for seven years at the rates SP are paid today. And I'm making the final two years player/team options with a buyout of about $5M for each. Homer and Tyler would have comparable stats at the point Bailey signed his extension and I'm sure his camp would expect to be rewarded in a similar fashion. GRANTED...Homer's deal's widely considered the worst one a team's made for a SP in modern baseball. It was made at a time when the Reds knew they weren't going to be able to retain some of their most skilled players. Their window to win was very small and the Votto and Bailey deals were going to handcuff nearly half their payroll for the foreseeable future. Sorry for rambling there.

In other Reds news it appears Nick Senzel has again been handcuffed to 2B after he spent his weekend trying out SS and 3B. If the Reds plan to keep Scooter the rest of this year then I don't have the slightest clue why Nick isn't playing a corner OF position or SS on a daily basis. It's his only path to the majors. Perhaps he simply can't play those positions. And the Reds would never admit that.

India continues to look good for Florida in the CWS. I really hope his last game in the infield is whenever the Gators run in the tournament ends. There's no path for him to get to the league in the infield. Let him learn a corner OF position and develop.
It's not unheard of. Archer signed a 6 yr/$25M deal after his first season in the majors.

Archer posted a 4.25 ERA and a 1.336 WHIP in 13 starts.

The Reds are a small market team with a small market budget. They need to buy low and recognize potential stars before they become a star. Then they need to lock them into long term team friendly deals ala Suarez and Iglesias.

Waiting to long will result in paying market price, which they can't afford.

Maybe Mahle and Castillo won't sign but the offer should be made.
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  #2837  
Old 06-22-18, 10:44 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianwr112 View Post
I understand it could end up being a great deal for the Reds. 7 years for $28M is unheard of for a top end SP. But the organization would also be basing that on 20 starts where the longest he's been able to go is 6.1 innings. It also doesn't make sense for him to agree to such a deal. Sure he'd get the guaranteed money but it'd be ludicrous to think he'd make less than $28M over his arbitration years plus the additional 2 years you've added in your offer. He'd most likely make that in his arbitration years alone. If I'm Tyler I'd laugh at any offer under $50M for seven years at the rates SP are paid today. And I'm making the final two years player/team options with a buyout of about $5M for each. Homer and Tyler would have comparable stats at the point Bailey signed his extension and I'm sure his camp would expect to be rewarded in a similar fashion. GRANTED...Homer's deal's widely considered the worst one a team's made for a SP in modern baseball. It was made at a time when the Reds knew they weren't going to be able to retain some of their most skilled players. Their window to win was very small and the Votto and Bailey deals were going to handcuff nearly half their payroll for the foreseeable future. Sorry for rambling there.

In other Reds news it appears Nick Senzel has again been handcuffed to 2B after he spent his weekend trying out SS and 3B. If the Reds plan to keep Scooter the rest of this year then I don't have the slightest clue why Nick isn't playing a corner OF position or SS on a daily basis. It's his only path to the majors. Perhaps he simply can't play those positions. And the Reds would never admit that.

India continues to look good for Florida in the CWS. I really hope his last game in the infield is whenever the Gators run in the tournament ends. There's no path for him to get to the league in the infield. Let him learn a corner OF position and develop.
I'd say India may be here by late 20, 2021 more likely. There is alot that can happen over the next few years. I don't see Scooter being with us much longer, unless they want to move him to the outfield. Suarez and Votto are written in ink. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
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  #2838  
Old 06-22-18, 10:44 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Always great to beat the Cubs...
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  #2839  
Old 06-22-18, 10:55 AM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
$4M a year should never be a difference between success and failure for a MLB team.

Homer signed a 6 year $105M deal.
I'm suggesting 7 yrs/$28M.
The two aren't even in the same universe.
They are because the point remains. Locking in players that bust just ties up money for the long term.
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  #2840  
Old 06-22-18, 01:04 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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How about if we just not sign anyone long term for awhile? There is no one on our current roster that's contract status should change right now. In fact, if you could do away with Votto's and Bailey's contracts, the others are pretty good.
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  #2841  
Old 06-22-18, 01:38 PM
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Archer seems to be trending the wrong way.
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  #2842  
Old 06-22-18, 02:33 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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First of all, great win last night. Harvey kept us in the game and our offense finally got it going.
And kudos to Winker for getting the big hit, the grand slam. But setting it up, what a great at bat by Eugenio Suarez. He got down 0-2 immediately, against a guy who does not walk many people. Fouled off a pitch and took a couple of close ones, including ball four that was just above letter high. That brought a run in and set the stage for Winkers heroics.

I'm thoroughly impressed with Suarez. He was good last year, in his first year at 3rd base. His defense has improved dramatically since the beginning of last season. Offensively, honestly, if this kid can stay healthy, he's going to put up some gigantic numbers in GABP. And the best of it is that the Reds are gambling, they signed him to a 7 year contract at pretty good money. This year he's only $2.5 mill, and it escalates up from there. He'll max out at only $11.8 over the last 3 years of his deal.
We may look back in few years and see this is a bargain for the Reds. He'll continue to hit behind Votto and always have chances to drive runs in.
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  #2843  
Old 06-22-18, 02:49 PM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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I agree about Suarez.

I also see Indiandad's point about the 7 yr/$28 M being potentially a huge win for the Reds, much like Suarez, if Mahle and Castillo pan out. Indiandad takes some crap on here for some of his ideas, but he clearly has a good grasp on MLB contracts and player values, for the most part.

I just don't think the young pitchers are worth the gamble - YET. Young pitchers flame out much more often than young position players like Suarez. Like I said before, if Castillo and Mahle show some development and consistency, I'd look to lock them up 12-15 months from now. It may cost a more per year (say 5.5-6M), but the risk would be cut down quite a bit if we get more track record on them.
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  #2844  
Old 06-22-18, 04:02 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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If the Reds announced this afternoon that they made this deal, I'd actually be happy. Heck you're locking up a guy for 7 years for basically the same amount of money you're paying Homer to throw hissy fits in AAA for just one year. But Mahle has to see what SPs are getting paid during their arbitration years and then in FA. If he's still in the league, he'll shatter that number. Of course I'm advising someone turn down $28M when I'll never touch that number in my life outside of some miracle.

I'm also against signing pitchers to much more than 3 year deals period. Just way too much can happen to derail their careers. Look at the amount of guys making $20M+ this year that have right at/or below .500 records now.
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  #2845  
Old 06-22-18, 06:42 PM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
I agree about Suarez.

I also see Indiandad's point about the 7 yr/$28 M being potentially a huge win for the Reds, much like Suarez, if Mahle and Castillo pan out. Indiandad takes some crap on here for some of his ideas, but he clearly has a good grasp on MLB contracts and player values, for the most part.

I just don't think the young pitchers are worth the gamble - YET. Young pitchers flame out much more often than young position players like Suarez. Like I said before, if Castillo and Mahle show some development and consistency, I'd look to lock them up 12-15 months from now. It may cost a more per year (say 5.5-6M), but the risk would be cut down quite a bit if we get more track record on them.
Bullseye.
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  #2846  
Old 06-23-18, 10:35 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Senzel done for the year - looks like Scooter will be with a Red longer than many expected.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Reds/stat...33808976879616
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  #2847  
Old 06-23-18, 03:58 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is online now
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
Senzel done for the year - looks like Scooter will be with a Red longer than many expected.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Reds/stat...33808976879616
This should have zero impact on Scooter.

If the Reds get the right offer for Scooter they better take it. It would be asinine to not trade Scooter based on an injury to Senzel. The Reds aren't winning so why hold Scooter?

If they keep Scooter past the trade deadline it should be because they signed him long term. Any other reason is stupid.
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  #2848  
Old 06-23-18, 05:13 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is online now
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Originally Posted by brianwr112 View Post
If the Reds announced this afternoon that they made this deal, I'd actually be happy. Heck you're locking up a guy for 7 years for basically the same amount of money you're paying Homer to throw hissy fits in AAA for just one year. But Mahle has to see what SPs are getting paid during their arbitration years and then in FA. If he's still in the league, he'll shatter that number. Of course I'm advising someone turn down $28M when I'll never touch that number in my life outside of some miracle.

I'm also against signing pitchers to much more than 3 year deals period. Just way too much can happen to derail their careers. Look at the amount of guys making $20M+ this year that have right at/or below .500 records now.
Mahle was drafted in the 7th red and signed for a $250,000 bonus. A decent guaranteed deal with the potential to sign another deal after might be pretty enticing to him.

Castillo hasn't made much either. He might be willing to sign cheap as well.
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  #2849  
Old 06-24-18, 06:01 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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4 Game Sweep of the Cubs. 7 wins in a row ties them for the longest active win streak
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  #2850  
Old 06-24-18, 09:33 PM
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4 Game Sweep of the Cubs. 7 wins in a row ties them for the longest active win streak
only 13 more wins in a row to get back to .500
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