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  #31  
Old 04-07-17, 07:50 AM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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Can someone explain to me how this works? Or direct to me to a site that explains it?

Or just answer these questions...

Let's take Benedictine and stick only to football...

Student A...lives in South Euclid, went to Catholic elementary school (St. Greg's or whatever it's now called); goes to Benedictine starting in the 9th grade and stays there throughout high school. Plays on the football team.

Student B...lives in Shaker, attended the Shaker public schools through the 9th grade; transfers into Benny starting in the 10th grade. Plays on the football team.

What are the implications?
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  #32  
Old 04-07-17, 08:00 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
Can someone explain to me how this works? Or direct to me to a site that explains it?

Or just answer these questions...

Let's take Benedictine and stick only to football...

Student A...lives in South Euclid, went to Catholic elementary school (St. Greg's or whatever it's now called); goes to Benedictine starting in the 9th grade and stays there throughout high school. Plays on the football team.

Student B...lives in Shaker, attended the Shaker public schools through the 9th grade; transfers into Benny starting in the 10th grade. Plays on the football team.

What are the implications?
Student A....is that Benny's designated feeder school? If so, no penalty. If not their feeder, tier 1.

Student B....tier 2. Which in football I think is times 2 as the multiplier.

http://www.ohsaa.org/Portals/0/Schoo...Balance101.pdf
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  #33  
Old 04-07-17, 08:03 AM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
Student A....is that Benny's designated feeder school? If so, no penalty. If not their feeder, tier 1.

Student B....tier 2. Which in football I think is times 2 as the multiplier.

http://www.ohsaa.org/Portals/0/Schoo...Balance101.pdf
Does the school get to select (by whatever criteria they choose) their "designated feeder school"? It's not necessarily the closest public school?
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  #34  
Old 04-07-17, 08:07 AM
fish82 fish82 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
Does the school get to select (by whatever criteria they choose) their "designated feeder school"? It's not necessarily the closest public school?
I believe so. The option is also there to select an "attendance zone" or "home district," in which you could pick the district with the most grade schools in it from which you draw.
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  #35  
Old 04-07-17, 08:14 AM
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The AD at Benny shared with me his formula to figure out what their true enrollment number would be for 2017>

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  #36  
Old 04-07-17, 08:17 AM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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Is there a place where each private school's "designated feeder school" is listed?
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  #37  
Old 04-07-17, 08:18 AM
EaglePride01 EaglePride01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriangleMan View Post
They were allowed to designate a public school district (attendance zone), hopefully one that contained as many Catholic feeder schools as possible, as their feeder district. If they did not select one, the OHSAA assigned the public school district based on the location of the school. From the OHSAA:

Feeder Schools, for the purposes of Competitive Balance, are the non-public school or schools (parishes for parochial schools; schools from the same system of education for other private schools) located within a designated or chosen public school district attendance zone. A high school can have multiple feeder schools so long as they are located within the same public school district attendance zone, and a school(s) can serve as feeder schools for more than one high school simultaneously.

If a non-public member high school fails to choose a school district/attendance zone for its feeder school(s), the public school attendance zone in which the non-public school is physically located will be assigned as that school’s selected attendance zone.

As a reminder, feeder schools are considered to be from the Same System of Education as defined by the Ohio Department of Education (i.e. Catholic Conference of Ohio, Ohio Association of Independent Schools,
Association of Christian Schools International, etc.). Therefore, if a Catholic non-public high school selects an attendance zone with two parishes and one Montessori school physically located within that zone, the Catholic non-public school will only be permitted to select the two parishes as its feeder schools.
Got it, thanks. Do you know if the OHSAA intends to make any of this data publicly available (are they even permitted to), or are we left with the final numbers and guessing where they came from?
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  #38  
Old 04-07-17, 08:19 AM
fish82 fish82 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
Is there a place where each private school's "designated feeder school" is listed?
Good question. Not that I'm aware of...I'd be interested in this as well, now that you mention it.
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  #39  
Old 04-07-17, 08:21 AM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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I appreciate that the people who put this together were attempting a serious "fix" to how schools are slotted in various divisions, but it's really half-a $$-ed, half baked. I guess it's like that comment about sausage-making and legislation.

Plenty of private schools, whose athletes are representative of their community at large, will be bumped up with this criteria, for no good reason. Take a look at the list at the top of this thread. It's essentially every medium and large Catholic school on the list, regardless of football success. Ignatius is on it, Ed's, but Holy Name, Padua and Central Catholic, NDCL, too.
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  #40  
Old 04-07-17, 08:22 AM
TRAC Football TRAC Football is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sapientia et veritas View Post
They should at least send flowers or something in gratitude to the failed Toledo Public Schools, second worst performer in the state on the 2016 report cards. It's good that the kids served by a public institution that fails at its purpose of educating kids have reasonably priced alternatives with private institutions that don't.
You mean free...if you are sweet at football. What about all the great students from public schools that fail??? Nobody is letting them go somewhere for free.
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  #41  
Old 04-07-17, 08:24 AM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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Also, what is "the same system of education"? Example...St. Ignatius is a Catholic school, but it is run by the Jesuit religious order. For the most part, it is independent of the Catholic Diocese of Cleveland. Most/all of the Catholic elementary schools in the Cleveland Diocese are run by the Diocese. VASJ is a school that is run by the Diocese.

Question...are all of these schools part of the "same system of education"? Is Ignatius NOT part of this "system of education"? Similarly, is Benedictine (run by the Benedictine religious order and independent of the Diocese) NOT part of this "system of education"?
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  #42  
Old 04-07-17, 08:27 AM
EaglePride01 EaglePride01 is offline
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I suppose the big privates who are firmly in D1 regardless of multiplier have no incentive to give too much thought as to which district or feeder to designate. Assuming they did, I'd think Westlake would probably be at or near the top for Ed's and Ignatius.
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  #43  
Old 04-07-17, 08:29 AM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EaglePride01 View Post
I suppose the big privates who are firmly in D1 regardless of multiplier have no incentive to give too much thought as to which district or feeder to designate. Assuming they did, I'd think Westlake would probably be at or near the top for Ed's and Ignatius.
My assumption is that St. Ed's has a higher number than Ignatius because far more of St. Ed's students come from public schools. Is that the reason?
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  #44  
Old 04-07-17, 08:30 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fish82 View Post
Good question. Not that I'm aware of...I'd be interested in this as well, now that you mention it.
This is all very fishy....
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  #45  
Old 04-07-17, 08:37 AM
EaglePride01 EaglePride01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
My assumption is that St. Ed's has a higher number than Ignatius because far more of St. Ed's students come from public schools. Is that the reason?
I can't tell you if that's the reason, but I think your assumption is fair.
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  #46  
Old 04-07-17, 08:45 AM
fish82 fish82 is offline
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Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
This is all very fishy....
LOL...indeed.
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  #47  
Old 04-07-17, 08:49 AM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DB 04 View Post
Eds just won a Blue Ribbon. That helps with PR.
And this comment is responsive to my comment...how?
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  #48  
Old 04-07-17, 08:50 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sapientia et veritas View Post
They should at least send flowers or something in gratitude to the failed Toledo Public Schools, second worst performer in the state on the 2016 report cards. It's good that the kids served by a public institution that fails at its purpose of educating kids have reasonably priced alternatives with private institutions that don't.
WTF are you talking about? The only thing the privates take is kids that can run fast and jump high. They are not in the business of saving all the souls; it costs too much. The recruiters are not hanging out at the math club but rather the Mid-City and STARS leagues poaching TPS finest. Heck, they do not even bother hiding it anymore.

Out of 200 boys they have the talent to compete against D1 in the money sports AND baseball and track. Amazing.

Again, could you imagine if CC was DIV? Thank GOD for competitive balance.
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  #49  
Old 04-07-17, 08:55 AM
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Some OHSAA honcho was on Cleveland sports talk radio yesterday talking about the release of new Divisions and his main example about how this works is Hoban moved up a Division. Very Company line type interview but once he got off the show hosts basically saw this for what it is, just shuffling the deck in the middle Divisions with no real plan for Division I. They were kind of making fun of the entire "feeder" school idea too, coming up with all these crazy scenarios and how they could be possibly addressed.
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  #50  
Old 04-07-17, 09:04 AM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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OK....

I did a little homework. The Yappi list at the beginning of this thread contains EVERY private school in Divisions I-IV EXCEPT two in DIV...Dayton C/J and Cuyahoga Valley Christian.

What do we learn from this? I think what you learn is that this "system" is just a made-up "process" to bump up all private schools...there really isn't any meaningful criteria that separates them all, one from another. The criteria simply explains that private school kids from all over the place.

The "process" isn't able to address D-I but let's see it for what it is...basically made up nonsense to accomplish what they want to do indirectly...move private schools up a division. Now you can make a solid argument that privates SHOULD be moved up a division (or play separately) but this "process" is just window dressing.
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  #51  
Old 04-07-17, 09:15 AM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
OK....

I did a little homework. The Yappi list at the beginning of this thread contains EVERY private school in Divisions I-IV EXCEPT two in DIV...Dayton C/J and Cuyahoga Valley Christian.

What do we learn from this? I think what you learn is that this "system" is just a made-up "process" to bump up all private schools...there really isn't any meaningful criteria that separates them all, one from another. The criteria simply explains that private school kids from all over the place.

The "process" isn't able to address D-I but let's see it for what it is...basically made up nonsense to accomplish what they want to do indirectly...move private schools up a division. Now you can make a solid argument that privates SHOULD be moved up a division (or play separately) but this "process" is just window dressing.
What planet are you from?
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  #52  
Old 04-07-17, 09:48 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
Is there a place where each private school's "designated feeder school" is listed?
Can a school change its designated feeder school from year to year?
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  #53  
Old 04-07-17, 09:55 AM
OldEagle71 OldEagle71 is offline
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Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
Can a school change its designated feeder school from year to year?
I think they only do this every other year, so no school designations nor roster data will be collected in 2017-18 school year.
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  #54  
Old 04-07-17, 10:09 AM
cchs1983 cchs1983 is offline
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
And to think they would have been DIV? How do you manage such a collection of talent in such a small pool? #Blessed.
The blessings are many at Central Catholic, all under the leadership of Greg Dempsey and his hard working staff of teachers, administrators and support staff. Central will begin the 2017 season facing more changes at rivals SFS, SJJ and Whitmer and coach Dempsey is exposed to, let me guess here 12 to 13 different head coaches at those schools. As much hatred and lies that our friendly rivals spew on social media about our institution and our community in general we'll keep turning the other cheek and fighting the good fight.

#lent
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  #55  
Old 04-07-17, 10:16 AM
thePITman thePITman is offline
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Originally Posted by Irwin20 View Post
Had to be ST X
I remember when St. X had 70 seniors. Was that 2007?
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  #56  
Old 04-07-17, 10:21 AM
serpico serpico is offline
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Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
The "process" isn't able to address D-I but let's see it for what it is...basically made up nonsense to accomplish what they want to do indirectly...move private schools up a division.
And yet, many private schools didn't move up a division.

It WAS half-baked if that was their intention, which makes me think it wasn't their intention.
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  #57  
Old 04-07-17, 10:32 AM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Originally Posted by TRAC Football View Post
You mean free...if you are sweet at football. What about all the great students from public schools that fail??? Nobody is letting them go somewhere for free.
Toledo School for the Arts is.
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  #58  
Old 04-07-17, 10:45 AM
TriangleMan TriangleMan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
Also, what is "the same system of education"? Example...St. Ignatius is a Catholic school, but it is run by the Jesuit religious order. For the most part, it is independent of the Catholic Diocese of Cleveland. Most/all of the Catholic elementary schools in the Cleveland Diocese are run by the Diocese. VASJ is a school that is run by the Diocese.

Question...are all of these schools part of the "same system of education"? Is Ignatius NOT part of this "system of education"? Similarly, is Benedictine (run by the Benedictine religious order and independent of the Diocese) NOT part of this "system of education"?
In its simplest form, to qualify under the 'Same System':
Athletes at Catholic HS had to come from a Catholic Elementary.
Athletes at a Christian HS had to come from a Christian Elementary.

You cannot can mix the two, i.e. a kid from a Catholic Elementary attending a Christian HS would not be recognized as coming from the same system (Christian Schools International vs. Catholic
Conference of Ohio).

http://www.ohsaa.org/Portals/0/Schoo...ANonPublic.pdf
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  #59  
Old 04-07-17, 11:27 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by TRAC Football View Post
You mean free...if you are sweet at football. What about all the great students from public schools that fail??? Nobody is letting them go somewhere for free.
I take you aren't aware of this program?

http://education.ohio.gov/Topics/Oth...arship-Program

Great students from public schools that are failing can take the state up on their EdChoice program and attend a local private school if they want.
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  #60  
Old 04-07-17, 11:53 AM
TriangleMan TriangleMan is online now
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
I take you aren't aware of this program?

http://education.ohio.gov/Topics/Oth...arship-Program

Great students from public schools that are failing can take the state up on their EdChoice program and attend a local private school if they want.
Also, if this SB 85 passes thru, this will probably replace the EdChoice program (and maybe other programs) and open up opportunities based on income, up to 400% of the poverty level, with no requirement to be in a failing school system. Could get interesting.

http://www.scohio.org/SB%2085%20Show...%20Support.pdf

http://www.scohio.org/SB%2085%20FAQ.pdf
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