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  #61  
Old 09-03-17, 04:47 AM
CitrusCrunch CitrusCrunch is offline
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this came up before with Cincy kids who are apparently doing both by your example it must be fine
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  #62  
Old 09-03-17, 07:15 AM
cincysports4 cincysports4 is offline
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Originally Posted by CitrusCrunch View Post
this came up before with Cincy kids who are apparently doing both by your example it must be fine
It is not allowed. She must have opted out of playing DA. Per OHSAA rules you can not do both. I'm sure there's more to this story. Has she been training with the DA?
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  #63  
Old 09-03-17, 07:42 AM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is offline
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My mistake, I consistently get the OE girls and CUP/DA girls with similar names, mixed up. Please disregard my erroneous observation.
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  #64  
Old 10-10-17, 09:19 PM
sportsfanofyear sportsfanofyear is offline
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USA eliminated from 2018 World Cup in following shocking loss to Trinidad and Tobago - wasn't Development Academy supposed to create a National Team that could/would compete with the world?

What is the expected result of Girls Development Academy?
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  #65  
Old 10-10-17, 09:40 PM
CitrusCrunch CitrusCrunch is offline
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to put every girl on the national team and rival the guys success pay attention
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  #66  
Old 10-11-17, 07:48 AM
Empty CUP Empty CUP is offline
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Perhaps the title of this thread should read "USDA killing US soccer!" Numbers doesn't lie.
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  #67  
Old 10-11-17, 01:06 PM
2731 2731 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsfanofyear View Post
USA eliminated from 2018 World Cup in following shocking loss to Trinidad and Tobago - wasn't Development Academy supposed to create a National Team that could/would compete with the world?

What is the expected result of Girls Development Academy?
There is only one US academy player on the USMNT, Acosta. Pulisic is a german academy player and well... he scored.

Try looking at u-17.

Or just keep using terrible examples... your choice in the end.

EDIT*** If anything, they needed more Academy players... (i.e. youth in general)

Last edited by 2731; 10-11-17 at 01:21 PM..
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  #68  
Old 10-11-17, 02:38 PM
Conan73 Conan73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2731 View Post
There is only one US academy player on the USMNT, Acosta. Pulisic is a german academy player and well... he scored.

Try looking at u-17.

Or just keep using terrible examples... your choice in the end.

EDIT*** If anything, they needed more Academy players... (i.e. youth in general)
Right. something like 11 USMNT players were above the age of 30. You can't have a sustained high level performance with a squad that old.

By all accounts, the U20 and below crop is supposed to be talented. DA will start to pay dividends.

The Men's DA has been in place since 2007. This type of elite player development takes time. Germany started its march to winning the 2014 World Cup when it revamped its youth development program to a disciplined academy style program in 2003. Of course, it could be argued that Germany had a more solid soccer footing to build off than we do in the US. So, if it took 11 years for Germany to do it, it will take a little longer for us.

This link provides a good understanding of how Germany built up its program. If you read it, you can understand what the USSF is trying to do:

https://www.theguardian.com/football...st-boom-talent
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  #69  
Old 10-11-17, 02:53 PM
Empty CUP Empty CUP is offline
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Yikes 10 years of DA and they have 1 player on the national team. Things don't look so great for little Mia on the CDA anytime in the near future, or decade....

Well done USSF....
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  #70  
Old 10-11-17, 03:57 PM
sportsfanofyear sportsfanofyear is offline
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What about all that Olympic mens soccer success we have had with our U23s? Oh wait, we have never qualified a U23 team into the Olympics. (Probably loaded with DA players).
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  #71  
Old 10-11-17, 04:27 PM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2731 View Post
There is only one US academy player on the USMNT, Acosta. Pulisic is a german academy player and well... he scored.
This is not entirely accurate. Pulisic played most of his youth with the PA Classics, an Academy club. He only was in the Borussia Dortmund Academy system for 2015-16 prior to going to the senior side.
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  #72  
Old 10-11-17, 10:06 PM
lovesallsports lovesallsports is offline
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Wow. So many DA haters. Why does the DA bother you guys so much? There has to be a reason that you are so harshly against it. If your kid doesn’t want to do it then don’t do it but stop bashing it.
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  #73  
Old 10-12-17, 11:34 AM
2731 2731 is offline
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Originally Posted by sportsfanofyear View Post
What about all that Olympic mens soccer success we have had with our U23s? Oh wait, we have never qualified a U23 team into the Olympics. (Probably loaded with DA players).
I take it math is not your strong suit.

1992
1996
2000
2008

4>0

Last edited by 2731; 10-12-17 at 11:47 AM..
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  #74  
Old 10-12-17, 12:21 PM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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I hate sounding like a broken record, but every time it's brought up here, I have to reply.

Yes, the DA started in 2007. But, it only started at the 17/18 level for multiple years. U12s started in 2016. There were several years between the expansion levels. I don't know all the steps in expansion anymore. So, at the beginning...the DA was getting players that were "already developed" at that age. That continued to exist for multiple years.

We won't truly see the DA impact until a full age-group goes through the DA ages. Even joining at U16 for 2-3 years doesn't "do much" in terms of the development spectrum. And...we only have 149 total clubs in the DA. As the age groups get older, that number dwindles to 72.

I believe there have been 23 players from the DA system that have received a USMNT cap, probably more. On the roster in T&T: Acosta, Agudelo, Arriola, Nagbe, Pulisic, and Yedlin (Zardes was also called in, but dropped out due to injury).
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  #75  
Old 10-12-17, 01:37 PM
Empty CUP Empty CUP is offline
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So the men's national team is not the best of the best? So is it a popularity contest? If the best are 18-23 year olds play them (the DA players) if not admit your crap is seriously flawed and move on.

The fact is since the DA's inception the men have gotten worse. Blame it on whatever, that's the reality.

I don't think the DA is a terrible thing, but it's clearly not the best thing. And I don't like USSF trying to make it seem like it is the best thing on the women's side. An option yes, the best? Obviously not.
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  #76  
Old 10-12-17, 01:39 PM
sportsfanofyear sportsfanofyear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2731 View Post
I take it math is not your strong suit.

1992 - 1996 - 2000 - 2008

4>0
And DA started in 2007. The Olympic QUALIFYING success since 2007 is remarkable.
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  #77  
Old 10-12-17, 01:56 PM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty CUP View Post
So the men's national team is not the best of the best? So is it a popularity contest? If the best are 18-23 year olds play them (the DA players) if not admit your crap is seriously flawed and move on.

The fact is since the DA's inception the men have gotten worse. Blame it on whatever, that's the reality.

I don't think the DA is a terrible thing, but it's clearly not the best thing. And I don't like USSF trying to make it seem like it is the best thing on the women's side. An option yes, the best? Obviously not.
The DA will never be the "best of the best." Not with less than 150 clubs total and less than 80 as the age groups get older! The country is too big and there's way too many kids to funnel into that little of setup.

DA is just another club option. That's it. Either you choose to go that route, or don't. Some choose not to, and still make it. Some choose to, and don't make it very far. Some would rather not commute hours away to do it. Others don't want to move residency in order to do it.

The women didn't make the 2010 and 2014 U17 World Cups. No one came cracking down saying that ECNL made the women's system worse. ECNL was founded in 2009. The women missed on two big tournaments with the setup AND they probably have close to more players involved (and definitely more clubs involved at the older age groups).
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  #78  
Old 10-13-17, 07:26 AM
buckshooter5 buckshooter5 is offline
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First High school season coming to a close with the DA involved.
You would think with all the hype people would be all over the DA especially the girls side.

Hearing a lot of chatter that skipping high school was probably a mistake.

The girls are getting a lot of pressure from school mates about not supporting the school ?

I think you will see a lot of girls going back to high school next fall.
Could be a real issue for the DA if they don'y have enough kids ?

They already are having a hard time with the oldest age group.

Time will tell
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  #79  
Old 10-14-17, 08:29 PM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is offline
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Originally Posted by buckshooter5 View Post
First High school season coming to a close with the DA involved.
You would think with all the hype people would be all over the DA especially the girls side.

Hearing a lot of chatter that skipping high school was probably a mistake.

The girls are getting a lot of pressure from school mates about not supporting the school ?

I think you will see a lot of girls going back to high school next fall.
Could be a real issue for the DA if they don'y have enough kids ?

They already are having a hard time with the oldest age group.

Time will tell

I say nahhh
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  #80  
Old 10-15-17, 09:57 PM
soccerfan63 soccerfan63 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belied dat View Post
I hate sounding like a broken record, but every time it's brought up here, I have to reply.

Yes, the DA started in 2007. But, it only started at the 17/18 level for multiple years. U12s started in 2016. There were several years between the expansion levels. I don't know all the steps in expansion anymore. So, at the beginning...the DA was getting players that were "already developed" at that age. That continued to exist for multiple years.

We won't truly see the DA impact until a full age-group goes through the DA ages. Even joining at U16 for 2-3 years doesn't "do much" in terms of the development spectrum. And...we only have 149 total clubs in the DA. As the age groups get older, that number dwindles to 72.

I believe there have been 23 players from the DA system that have received a USMNT cap, probably more. On the roster in T&T: Acosta, Agudelo, Arriola, Nagbe, Pulisic, and Yedlin (Zardes was also called in, but dropped out due to injury).
I'm not sure what argument you are trying to make here, and I am not a DA hater, but if you are bragging that the U.S. Mens team that lost to T&T is loaded with DA players, and that is an argument for the DA, then you may want to rethink that. The current U.S. team is an embarrasment save for Pulisic. Give me Landon Donovan, Tab Ramos(going back a bit on this one!), a young Michael Bradley a healthy John Obrien , and Brian McBride any day over the current crop of young players.
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  #81  
Old 10-16-17, 01:17 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by soccerfan63 View Post
I'm not sure what argument you are trying to make here, and I am not a DA hater, but if you are bragging that the U.S. Mens team that lost to T&T is loaded with DA players, and that is an argument for the DA, then you may want to rethink that. The current U.S. team is an embarrasment save for Pulisic. Give me Landon Donovan, Tab Ramos(going back a bit on this one!), a young Michael Bradley a healthy John Obrien , and Brian McBride any day over the current crop of young players.
I can't speak the for the other 3 named, but Nagbe and Yedlin are great players as well, not just Pulisic.
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  #82  
Old 10-16-17, 08:01 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Originally Posted by soccerfan63 View Post
I'm not sure what argument you are trying to make here, and I am not a DA hater, but if you are bragging that the U.S. Mens team that lost to T&T is loaded with DA players, and that is an argument for the DA, then you may want to rethink that. The current U.S. team is an embarrasment save for Pulisic. Give me Landon Donovan, Tab Ramos(going back a bit on this one!), a young Michael Bradley a healthy John Obrien , and Brian McBride any day over the current crop of young players.
Not bragging about anything. The argument I made was pretty clear: the DA is 10 years old, but it's nowhere near getting the "best of the best." It's not a failure, it just hasn't AND cannot accomplish what it's trying to do. It's just like its predecessor, ODP.

Kids fall through the gaps. That's okay. There are multiple outlets in development. That's okay. Saying the DA is a failure because it's not producing a top USMNT is not fair. The DA system is "young" but it's also incomplete. Cannot judge its effectiveness after 10 years because many years it's only existed at the 17/18 levels. You cannot train NT members in just 1-2 years.
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  #83  
Old 10-16-17, 09:50 AM
1000games 1000games is offline
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Originally Posted by Hoosier Parent View Post
I say nahhh

This chatter is pretty serious. I know several GDA players in Cincinnati, many of whom are saying - very seriously - that they aren't enjoying the DA and that as soon as they commit to a college, they will go back to high school ball.
Why aren't they enjoying it? 1. Substitution rules. The girls I know are not suffering from lack of playing time, but suffering with lack of meaningful substitutions and starting positions. 2. Lack of continuity with teammates. At the CDA, girls are playing up, playing down, not playing. And these changes in the routine are to highlight a select few. Or prop a team up that lacks ability because some players are playing up. 3. Large gap in skill from top to bottom of the age group. Despite the belief that "all the best" are in the DA, this is not the case. The skill level of the top half of an age group can be considerably different than the skill level of the bottom half. It goes back to how the age groups were put together. Many of the GDA are some of the best, and they are use to top level players to train with. 4. Game competition, There isn't any because they are playing the same teams all the time! It gets rather monotanous to play the same people over and over.

Whether anyone agrees with me or not, the fact is, many are saying they will jump ship next year. Time will tell.
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  #84  
Old 10-16-17, 07:06 PM
fearthekeeper fearthekeeper is offline
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Originally Posted by 1000games View Post
This chatter is pretty serious. I know several GDA players in Cincinnati, many of whom are saying - very seriously - that they aren't enjoying the DA and that as soon as they commit to a college, they will go back to high school ball.
Why aren't they enjoying it? 1. Substitution rules. The girls I know are not suffering from lack of playing time, but suffering with lack of meaningful substitutions and starting positions. 2. Lack of continuity with teammates. At the CDA, girls are playing up, playing down, not playing. And these changes in the routine are to highlight a select few. Or prop a team up that lacks ability because some players are playing up. 3. Large gap in skill from top to bottom of the age group. Despite the belief that "all the best" are in the DA, this is not the case. The skill level of the top half of an age group can be considerably different than the skill level of the bottom half. It goes back to how the age groups were put together. Many of the GDA are some of the best, and they are use to top level players to train with. 4. Game competition, There isn't any because they are playing the same teams all the time! It gets rather monotanous to play the same people over and over.

Whether anyone agrees with me or not, the fact is, many are saying they will jump ship next year. Time will tell.
Like it or not, the DA is the future. Of course they are going to have kids second guess their choices as their playtime drops and/or their high school teams excel. This is the first season.

High School will quickly become rec league.
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  #85  
Old 10-16-17, 09:06 PM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is offline
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Originally Posted by 1000games View Post
This chatter is pretty serious. I know several GDA players in Cincinnati, many of whom are saying - very seriously - that they aren't enjoying the DA and that as soon as they commit to a college, they will go back to high school ball.
Why aren't they enjoying it? 1. Substitution rules. The girls I know are not suffering from lack of playing time, but suffering with lack of meaningful substitutions and starting positions. 2. Lack of continuity with teammates. At the CDA, girls are playing up, playing down, not playing. And these changes in the routine are to highlight a select few. Or prop a team up that lacks ability because some players are playing up. 3. Large gap in skill from top to bottom of the age group. Despite the belief that "all the best" are in the DA, this is not the case. The skill level of the top half of an age group can be considerably different than the skill level of the bottom half. It goes back to how the age groups were put together. Many of the GDA are some of the best, and they are use to top level players to train with. 4. Game competition, There isn't any because they are playing the same teams all the time! It gets rather monotanous to play the same people over and over.

Whether anyone agrees with me or not, the fact is, many are saying they will jump ship next year. Time will tell.
I'd counter with the point that most development comes in practice, and if you're practicing against the best in your area you're gonna develop. College coaches will go where the talent is, so I imagine exposure won't be an issue.

Interestingly I was in the district coaches meeting for central Indiana Sunday, and one of the big Indy private school coaches couldn't contain his contempt for the DA (I think he lost a crucial player to the DA). His word was "Fraud" to describe the DA.

On the other end, I saw a couple of important Indy Fire girls left for FC Pride (Which is the club that replaced the Indy fire in the ECNL for the Indiana market.

There's also a few girls on the Fire DA roster who are playing high school. It'll be interesting to see if the Fire record improves after Indiana HS is over in a couple of weeks.
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  #86  
Old 10-16-17, 09:55 PM
soccerfan63 soccerfan63 is offline
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Originally Posted by belied dat View Post
Not bragging about anything. The argument I made was pretty clear: the DA is 10 years old, but it's nowhere near getting the "best of the best." It's not a failure, it just hasn't AND cannot accomplish what it's trying to do. It's just like its predecessor, ODP.

Kids fall through the gaps. That's okay. There are multiple outlets in development. That's okay. Saying the DA is a failure because it's not producing a top USMNT is not fair. The DA system is "young" but it's also incomplete. Cannot judge its effectiveness after 10 years because many years it's only existed at the 17/18 levels. You cannot train NT members in just 1-2 years.
Well, I think your argument is a little muddled, but I may be slow....you seem to state that we have all of these great players coming out of the DA and my point is that we do not. We have slipped in our world status since the DA came into being on the Men's side. We have no unique style or plan of development. We rely on dual citzenship players that have been trained in other countries in another system to succeed at the international level. Our youth teams are often filled with physically superior athletes that have poor touch on the ball. A player like Messi would have been filtered out of our U.S. system because of his size. Blame it on Klinsmen, blame it on college soccer, blame it on whatever, but the DA has not done the job it is supposed to be doing. We should have at least 5 world class players by now. Pulisic has no peer in his age group, and that is a shame.

10 years is plenty of time to develop world class players. We currently have one player of that quality on the nats, after a decade of DA development. The Germans have about 20. Now, we are not Germany and I get that, but look at their version of the DA and what they did in the last 10-15 years and compare it to us. To say that Yedlin and Nagbe are "great" players, (I know that was another poster) is simply not true. If we have 3 great players on the nats men's team they we would not be losing to the likes of Guatemala and T&T.
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  #87  
Old 10-17-17, 07:15 AM
Conan73 Conan73 is offline
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The USMNT’s failure to not make it to the World Cup has nothing to do with the DA. The USMNT had an aging roster because the country lacked a cohesive player development program for years. The DA is an attempt to change that, and 10 years is not enough time. As has been pointed out, when the DA started, it had older players. A proper development program has to start with the younger ages....something the DA now has in place.

Bringing up Lionel Messi as an example is deceptive. His story is unconvential. First, his father and uncles were professional soccer players, and his father was his coach when he was kid. So, he benefitted from high level training at the earliest age. Second, his family moved to Spain when he was kid to get medical treatment for a growth hormone deficiency disorder that Messi had. While in Spain, he made Barcelona’s Academy program, where it was quickly learned that he was a phenom. The Argentinian national program had nothing to do with his development or success. In fact, Messi could of played for Spain because one of his parents are of Spanish decent.

The better model to look at is Germany or Spain. In particular, after years of falling short in the lWorld Cup, Germany revamped its entire youth soccer program with the objective of achieving World Cup success. They did this by doing the following:

1). Ensuring that coaches were teaching according to FIFA standards by installing a more regimented licensing and training program for coaches — something that USSF put into place a few years ago (The DA starts at U15. There needs to be an emphasis on coaching standards for the younger ages before they’re eligible for the DA)
2). Establish a formal development academy for players with potential that is outside of the pro club academies (the pro club academies are focused on pro development, as such they don’t care about national player development, they will bring in players from outside the country)

By all accounts, it looks like the USSF approach is starting to pay off as judged by success with the younger teams. For example, the U20 MNT recently won the CONCACAF title. The U17 team made the quarter finals of the U17 World Cup, and they were finalist of the U17 World Cup. The U19 team recently defeated Spain in a European tournament....Some of these players will make it to the top European pro leagues, as well as MLS. This where the next generation of MNT talent will come from. We should see progress in the 2022 World Cup.

The MNT always has a tough mountain to climb. We compete against countries that have a stronger soccer heritage; countries where the only game in town is soccer. Anyone who thinks that we can field good teams without formal development academy approach doesn’t understand the competitive landscape...

The WMNT is at the top. However, other countries are making inroads. The women’s DA is an attempt to stay at the top. Time will tell if it is the right way to do so or not.
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  #88  
Old 10-17-17, 07:24 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Originally Posted by soccerfan63 View Post
Well, I think your argument is a little muddled, but I may be slow....you seem to state that we have all of these great players coming out of the DA and my point is that we do not. We have slipped in our world status since the DA came into being on the Men's side. We have no unique style or plan of development. We rely on dual citzenship players that have been trained in other countries in another system to succeed at the international level. Our youth teams are often filled with physically superior athletes that have poor touch on the ball. A player like Messi would have been filtered out of our U.S. system because of his size. Blame it on Klinsmen, blame it on college soccer, blame it on whatever, but the DA has not done the job it is supposed to be doing. We should have at least 5 world class players by now. Pulisic has no peer in his age group, and that is a shame.

10 years is plenty of time to develop world class players. We currently have one player of that quality on the nats, after a decade of DA development. The Germans have about 20. Now, we are not Germany and I get that, but look at their version of the DA and what they did in the last 10-15 years and compare it to us. To say that Yedlin and Nagbe are "great" players, (I know that was another poster) is simply not true. If we have 3 great players on the nats men's team they we would not be losing to the likes of Guatemala and T&T.
I have said nothing about great players coming out of the DA. I simply have stated: the DA is 10 years old, but it's nowhere near getting the "best of the best." It's not a failure, it just hasn't AND cannot accomplish what it's trying to do. It's just like its predecessor, ODP. I actually have said that twice.

Correct, it is not the DA's job. The DA serves just one avenue of development, there are numerous others. 10 years isn't plenty of time, as I have explained this: you cannot grab a 17/18 year old and "develop" him to USMNT level in 1-2 years. That was the DA for the longest time. And even now, earliest is U12. In 5-6 years they will be U19, which means...they've still spent MORE time outside of DA than inside the DA.

Development is so much more than ECNL, DA, club, HS, ODP, etc. We are missing on a lot of developmental fronts. The DA is just part of that.
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  #89  
Old 10-17-17, 07:55 AM
steelboot steelboot is offline
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I wouldn't say 15-20 of "the best", but probably accurate to say 15-20 players. Some of the best chose to play HS because they already have their offers and want to finish their senior year with kids they've played with the last 4 years.

It will be a bigger issue in the next couple of years. What does HS soccer really do for elite players? Truly Elite players get scholarships through their club, not through their HS. Sure, it's fun to play with your class mates, but the training stinks in a lot of cases, and let's face it high schools don't really attract the cream of the crop when it comes to coaches.
Same could absolutely be said for some Club's.
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  #90  
Old 10-17-17, 08:57 AM
Sports_Fan_ Sports_Fan_ is offline
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Posts: 77
Sports_Fan_ is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by fearthekeeper View Post
Like it or not, the DA is the future. Of course they are going to have kids second guess their choices as their playtime drops and/or their high school teams excel. This is the first season.

High School will quickly become rec league.
I disagree the DA is not the “future” reason being because they will never have the best of the best. Far to many players cannot afford the club exposure and will always have to play school ball. I think the DA is great for players that are extremely talented I get that, but it’s far from the “future” of soccer. The DA took a few special players but it will never sent High School soccer. I watched many great games this fall a ton of great players playing in Cincinnati and I would say you could put an all star team at every grade level and play right with the DA.
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