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  #1  
Old 05-18-15, 08:26 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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All 9 Referendum Issues Pass

A Review of the 2015 OHSAA Referendum Issues

High Schools
821 high school ballots were mailed, 691 ballots were returned (84 percent) including 3 invalid

1.) Bylaw 4-2-1, Age (amend Bylaw 4-2-1 while retaining Exception 1 with revisions and deleting Exception 2)
This permits all 19-year-olds, regardless of date of birth, to continue to participate in interscholastic athletics provided the eight-semester rule is observed. This also means that once a student turns 20, no matter where the 20th birthday falls on the calendar, his or her eligibility ends. Exception 1 would be retained to provide latitude to approve participation opportunities for students who are truly disabled.
541 in favor; 143 opposed

2.) Bylaw 4-3-1, Enrollment and Attendance (add note to precede the Bylaw; delete Exception 3 as of 2018-19; amend Exceptions 6 and 7)
This adds a note to precede Bylaw 4-3-1 to remind administrators that all high school students are subject to the provisions of the transfer bylaw if they change schools. Also, Exception 3 was adopted originally to respond to state law which mandated a participation opportunity for students who attended community schools sponsored by a member school’s Board of Education only. Since that time, additional legislation now permits any community school student to be eligible only at the public school in the residential district. Therefore, to avoid conflicts, upper class students who are currently attending community schools sponsored by a school district’s Board and who do not live in that district would remain eligible, but incoming ninth graders as of 2015-16 would be eligible only at the residential public school as prescribed by law. This exception and the note would then expire at the beginning of the 2018-19 school year. In addition, the proposed amendment to Exception 6 would provide a part-time enrollment option for a home educated student at a non-public school only. All other home-educated students have a participation opportunity only at the residential public school OR, if that school does not sponsor the sport in which the home-educated wishes to play, at another public district contingent upon the superintendent’s approval. The amendment to Exception 7 would be adjusted for students who attend STEM schools so as to be consistent with Ohio law.
625 in favor; 60 opposed

3.) Bylaw 4-3-3, Semesters (amend Exception 2)
This amendment to Exception 2 provides latitude to approve students who are truly disabled. It would incorporate the Ohio Department of Education Operating Standards and Federal IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act) requirements to limit those who might qualify for this exception to the truly disabled student.
644 in favor; 42 opposed

4.) Bylaw 4-7-2, Transfer (Note: Pursuant to Constitution Article 8-1-1, this amendment became effective immediately upon action by the Board of Directors on November 17, 2014. It is subject to ratification by the member schools during the referendum voting.)
To account for students who are not enrolled, yet are participating in a public school, e.g. STEM school, community school or non-public school students, and who may be participating in certain sports at their own schools, the Board of Directors has approved the deletion of the reference to “school in which the student has not been enrolled.” With this deletion, students who might, for example, play football for their district public high school and then wrestle for their non-public school would not be subject to any transfer consequence. Note #4 discusses the implications for the home-educated student. General Sports Regulation 7 would provide sanctions for students who participate in schools for which they are not enrolled and in which participation is not covered under any bylaw or state law.
602 in favor; 59 opposed

5.) Bylaw 4-7-2, Transfer (new Exception 8)
This revision is in response to some member school administrators who have requested an exemption for students who transfer due to a desire to improve their academic preparation by enrolling in one of the member schools which sponsors the International Baccalaureate (IB) Program. Note that transferring under this provision would require the student to remain in the IB Program. Discontinuing the Program would result in immediate ineligibility and could result in sanctions as prescribed within Bylaw 11, Penalties.
529 in favor; 131 opposed

6.) Bylaw 4-7-2, Transfer (new Exception 9)
This exception will accommodate students who for various reasons are compelled to leave the high school where eligibility has been established due to financial, academic and/or disciplinary reasons. This one-time exception would be for a transfer into the public school district within which the student’s parents reside regardless of whether the student is transferring from a public or non-public school. The Exception 9 form must be submitted; the exception would not be available to students desiring to transfer to and from high schools within a multiple high school district/system, and the exception would not permit a student to transfer from the public high school of the district in which one parent resides to the public high school district in which the other parent resides in a split-family situation. However, a non-public student whose parents live in two different public school districts may have the option to transfer to either public school district in which the student’s parents reside provided the student has never been enrolled in a public high school or the student has been enrolled in the non-public school for a minimum of one semester.
507 in favor; 153 opposed

7.) Bylaw 4-7-2, Transfer (new Exception 10)
This exception permits restoration of full eligibility for students who transfer, upon application to the Commissioner’s Office, after the school district’s board of education in which the student had been attending has elected to effectively cease its sponsorship of its entire interscholastic athletics program. Further, if the school district formally elects, through board of education action, to resume its sponsorship, a student who transferred under this provision may transfer back to his/her original school so long as this transfer occurs prior to the start of the next school year.
617 in favor; 36 opposed

8.) Bylaw 4-8-2, Return from an International Exchange Program (amendment)
Removes the phrase “at the point of interruption . . .” would make it clear that the semesters of study abroad do count toward the total of eight semesters available to the student and that the student must be compliant with Bylaw 4-4-1, Scholarship, in the final grading period prior to return to Ohio in order to be immediately eligible. The additional language added would reinforce the concept that academic work and semesters do count when the student returns home to the member school.
638 in favor; 22 opposed

9.) Bylaw 4-9-2, Recruiting (amendment and additional language); Bylaw 4-9-4, Recruiting (new No. 8), and Bylaw 4-9-6, Recruiting (additional language)
This provides clarity within this bylaw by stipulating that when coaches are contacted by someone who is advocating for a student’s transfer or enrollment, the coach would be required to report the contact to a school administrator and cease that contact with the individual. Additionally, when a coach leaves one school to take a position at another school and students transfer to that school, it shall be assumed that there is recruiting or influence. That assumption can be challenged, but if the challenge is not successful, this revision would mean the student remains ineligible for one year from the date of enrollment or transfer. The additional language in Bylaw 4-9-2 would permit the Commissioner’s Office to withhold eligibility for up to a maximum of 30 calendar days while an investigation is being conducted.

The addition of item No. 8 in Bylaw 4-9-4 would stipulate that when a coach leaves one school to take a position at another school and students who were a member of the original school team transfer to the coach’s new school, it shall be assumed that there is recruiting or influence. If a challenge occurs and is not successful, the student remains ineligible for one year from the date of enrollment or transfer. The additional language in Bylaw 4-9-6 stipulates that when a coach is contacted by someone who is advocating for a student’s transfer or enrollment, the coach is required to report the contact to a school administrator and cease that contact with the individual.
592 in favor; 95 opposed
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  #2  
Old 05-18-15, 10:30 PM
Oil Filter Oil Filter is offline
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The addition of item No. 8 in Bylaw 4-9-4 would stipulate that when a coach leaves one school to take a position at another school and students who were a member of the original school team transfer to the coach’s new school, it shall be assumed that there is recruiting or influence.
The presumption of guilt in the absence of evidence? WTF?

Last edited by Oil Filter; 05-18-15 at 11:27 PM.
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  #3  
Old 05-19-15, 02:11 AM
SeeYaSometime SeeYaSometime is offline
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OF - That caught my eye also. Jeesh, ASSUMED guilt. Sure seems a slippery slope.
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Old 05-19-15, 05:46 AM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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The 19 year old state wrestling champion will be the new normal.

There are already too many and this will just mean more.
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  #5  
Old 05-19-15, 06:12 AM
bob22 bob22 is offline
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Do the voting results of #9 prove that 592 member schools believe that they own the kid?
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  #6  
Old 05-19-15, 06:52 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by SeeYaSometime View Post
OF - That caught my eye also. Jeesh, ASSUMED guilt. Sure seems a slippery slope.
I guess I'm an old school old fart but what seems a bit "slippery" to me is kids that transfer out of their current schools to follow their HIGH SCHOOL coaches around!

Well it also looks like it's going to become pretty common to have "kids" nearly 20 years old competing with "normal" kids barely 16 years old. That's the spirit!
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Old 05-19-15, 08:53 AM
queencitybuckeye queencitybuckeye is offline
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Originally Posted by Oil Filter View Post
The presumption of guilt in the absence of evidence? WTF?
Occam's Razor.
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  #8  
Old 05-19-15, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
4.) Bylaw 4-7-2, Transfer (Note: Pursuant to Constitution Article 8-1-1, this amendment became effective immediately upon action by the Board of Directors on November 17, 2014. It is subject to ratification by the member schools during the referendum voting.)
To account for students who are not enrolled, yet are participating in a public school, e.g. STEM school, community school or non-public school students, and who may be participating in certain sports at their own schools, the Board of Directors has approved the deletion of the reference to “school in which the student has not been enrolled.” With this deletion, students who might, for example, play football for their district public high school and then wrestle for their non-public school would not be subject to any transfer consequence. Note #4 discusses the implications for the home-educated student. General Sports Regulation 7 would provide sanctions for students who participate in schools for which they are not enrolled and in which participation is not covered under any bylaw or state law.
602 in favor; 59 opposed
There was a lot of opposition to including these kids in the enrollment numbers, but it looks like 602 of 661 voting schools don't mind it.
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  #9  
Old 05-19-15, 10:05 AM
eagles73 eagles73 is offline
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Originally Posted by bob22 View Post
Do the voting results of #9 prove that 592 member schools believe that they own the kid?
Since the new enrollment figures counted kids in home school or charter schools who may never participate for the public school in which they reside I would say yes public schools do own them! lol
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Old 05-19-15, 10:07 AM
eagles73 eagles73 is offline
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I have a son who's birthday is in summer, he is currently 5 in preschool and will go to kindergarten after he turns 6. With this new rule, he could wait 1 more year and turn 20 in the summer after he graduates. I have a daughter in 3rd the same way with a summer birthday. That is one rule I think our schools really dropped the ball on.
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Old 05-19-15, 10:10 AM
ora et labora ora et labora is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
I guess I'm an old school old fart but what seems a bit "slippery" to me is kids that transfer out of their current schools to follow their HIGH SCHOOL coaches around!

Well it also looks like it's going to become pretty common to have "kids" nearly 20 years old competing with "normal" kids barely 16 years old. That's the spirit!
Better yet, an incoming freshman who is still 14 (and still has not hit puberty) wrestling varsity at 113 pounds going against a 19 year old who has cut down from 140 to make weight at 113.
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Old 05-19-15, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ora et labora View Post
Better yet, an incoming freshman who is still 14 (and still has not hit puberty) wrestling varsity at 113 pounds going against a 19 year old who has cut down from 140 to make weight at 113.
Maybe the 14 year-old should be on the Freshmen or JV team then? Just spit-balling here
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Old 05-19-15, 10:23 AM
ora et labora ora et labora is offline
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Maybe the 14 year-old should be on the Freshmen or JV team then? Just spit-balling here
I know things are a little different down on Detroit Ave. with the number of wrestlers you have in the room, but in reality, freshman and JV wrestling teams went away years ago.
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Old 05-19-15, 10:31 AM
serpico serpico is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Well it also looks like it's going to become pretty common to have "kids" nearly 20 years old competing with "normal" kids barely 16 years old. That's the spirit!
I doubt it becomes 'common'. Even those starting school late would still have to be held back an entire grade before this would become an issue.
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Old 05-19-15, 11:42 AM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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There was a lot of opposition to including these kids in the enrollment numbers, but it looks like 602 of 661 voting schools don't mind it.
Not sure that is on point but even if it was, I doesn't surprise me that the majority is taking advantage of the minority. I still think its crazy that we are going to have athletes with "dual enrollment".
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  #16  
Old 05-19-15, 11:44 AM
Oil Filter Oil Filter is offline
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I think it's just as likely that most of those voting don't understand the issue.

It would be interesting to see the athletic participation rates for community and STEM school students compared that for "normal" students.
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Old 05-19-15, 01:46 PM
suplex21 suplex21 is offline
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Originally Posted by ora et labora View Post
I know things are a little different down on Detroit Ave. with the number of wrestlers you have in the room, but in reality, freshman and JV wrestling teams went away years ago.
What???

No they did not. There are still plenty of freshman and JV teams...
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  #18  
Old 05-19-15, 06:12 PM
Oil Filter Oil Filter is offline
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This one seemed to slip by also...
Quote:
This adds a note to precede Bylaw 4-3-1 to remind administrators that all high school students are subject to the provisions of the transfer bylaw if they change schools.
IOW, if a kid changes schools for any reason (e.g. a family move from Cleveland to Cincinnati) he is ineligible for the first half of the season unless he gets a waiver.
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Old 05-19-15, 07:23 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Originally Posted by Lambeau Fields View Post
The 19 year old state wrestling champion will be the new normal.

There are already too many and this will just mean more.
We agree again. Scary.

I believe the OHSAA is afraid of opening themselves up to lawsuits and simply caved.

How many redshirts will we see now? How many two time redshirts?

a 19 and 330 day year old MAN has no business competing against most 14-16 year old kids.
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Old 05-19-15, 07:27 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Originally Posted by serpico View Post
I doubt it becomes 'common'. Even those starting school late would still have to be held back an entire grade before this would become an issue.
Happens more today than it did 10 years ago. I know plenty of kids who have been held back for athletic purposes only (straight A students).

The old rule was fine but open the OHSAA up to lawsuits which are costly and also weaken the organizations power.

The 20 year old rule is mistake pure and simple. The bylaw should read that no kid with passing grades should be held back and then allowed to participate in sports. The problem is it takes one crazy parent to lawyer up and have a court rule that the OHSAA has over stepped their bounds and the parent reserves the right to do what is best for their kid (and their kids chance at getting a scholarship).
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Old 05-19-15, 11:06 PM
FossyWriter8 FossyWriter8 is offline
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The OHSAA could simply remind schools and parents that participating in athletics is a privilege and not a right. Hold a kid back all you want for academics, but if you want to play sports, here are the rules.
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  #22  
Old 05-20-15, 02:48 AM
murphy13 murphy13 is offline
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Originally Posted by FossyWriter8 View Post
The OHSAA could simply remind schools and parents that participating in athletics is a privilege and not a right. Hold a kid back all you want for academics, but if you want to play sports, here are the rules.
I don't understand all of the micromanagement from the OHSAA...
You should be able to play wherever you want and attend whatever school you want without being punished. Kids should be able to play out their 4yrs of high school eligibility.
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Old 05-20-15, 07:55 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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I don't understand all of the micromanagement from the OHSAA...
You should be able to play wherever you want and attend whatever school you want without being punished. Kids should be able to play out their 4yrs of high school eligibility.
So you're ok with no age limits or that a kid could transfer out in the middle of the season!

As noted above high school sports is an extracurricular activity and a privilege to participate in. In order to avoid chaos school districts have voluntarily formed an association to govern the activities of the games being played. Comply with the rules or don't play in the games, it's that simple.
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Old 05-20-15, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
Happens more today than it did 10 years ago. I know plenty of kids who have been held back for athletic purposes only (straight A students).
Could be, I suppose. My only experience with it was watching the movie Go Tigers! where a couple of Massillon's stars openly admitted to the red-shirt, and that was back in 1999.

Maybe I have too much faith in humankind, but I can't believe people in this day and age would be so short-sighted as to hold back a smart kid just for sports reasons.
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Old 05-20-15, 01:26 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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This age thing is crap and easily manipulated.

Make all athletes in all sports be no older than 18 on the first day of school and or September 1st of their senior year. Make it a true U18 sport.

The idea that you could have a 19 year 364 day old senior play against a 15, 16 or17 year old senior in a state championship is garbage.

International tournaments in just about every sport go by age, not grade.
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Old 05-20-15, 01:27 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Could be, I suppose. My only experience with it was watching the movie Go Tigers! where a couple of Massillon's stars openly admitted to the red-shirt, and that was back in 1999.

Maybe I have too much faith in humankind, but I can't believe people in this day and age would be so short-sighted as to hold back a smart kid just for sports reasons.
You really can't believe that?

There are a lot of parents out there living through their kids that will do anything to give them an advantage.
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Old 05-20-15, 01:33 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Maybe I have too much faith in humankind
You do. I know a guy who last year held back his talented wrestler sons (7th and 8th graders) who are excellent students.

The local basketball powerhouse has had several redshirts over the past 5-6 years.

To put things into perspective just a bit. A local All-State football player was withheld from playing last year due to the old rule. He was older than at least two University of Toledo sophomore football players (one a starter) that I know of. Under the current rule he would have been allowed to play. Men with that kind of maturity have ZERO business playing against 15/16 year olds.
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Old 05-20-15, 01:36 PM
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Holding them back can start before kindergarten. Ask yourself how a kid who has never repeated a grade graduates at 19. And if he's a notable athlete and dad is a Marv Marinovich wanna-be, you might make an educated guess as to the why.
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Old 05-20-15, 01:40 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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^ I see your point but keep in mind MOST redshirts are merely 18 for football their senior season. Some MIGHT turn 19 during the season but MOST enter at 18. This new rule allows for a late start AND a redshirt. Or, God forbid, two redshirts. Ridiculous. The old rule was absolutely fine because it addressed WHY a kid might be 19 as a senior and even had exceptions for those unfortunate ones (ie - coma).
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Old 05-20-15, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
You do. I know a guy who last year held back his talented wrestler sons (7th and 8th graders) who are excellent students.
At some point, the school has to be able to (and should be willing to) say no.

On a larger scale, what kind of idiot parent would sentence his kid to another year of K-12 rather than encourage him to grow and become independent?
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