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  #91  
Old 06-02-17, 08:28 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
I know most police officers have both styles in their toolbox depending on the situation. I imagine most refs do too. The ones I know and have seen multiple times over years seem to flex their styles. And which style is used is usually a reflection of the situation and people they are dealing with. So if you are seeing a dick-tator look to see who needs to be dick-tated.

You're looking for the "Dalton" of officiating. Always be nice. Lol.

And yes, I know there are a few exceptions of bad cops and refs but by and large, they all do their job right, work hard, and try their best to get it right.
The bad ones become known fast and can develop poor attitudes.
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  #92  
Old 06-03-17, 01:36 AM
Looseball Looseball is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
The bad ones become known fast and can develop poor attitudes.
I have seen hundreds of high school games over the years, and a huge percentage of the officials are simply not competent. It does become very frustrating, and now we're going to give these guys even more power. 20 years ago southwest Ohio had much better officiating and coaches were better behaved. Imagine that. The problem is with the officials. I really do question their knowledge, judgement and experience with the game. You will never convince me that most of them played. They just don't have a feel for the game.
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  #93  
Old 06-03-17, 06:32 AM
madworld madworld is offline
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So can athletic directors t up officials when they show up a player or a coach? I know the response will be that this rarely happens but it does in fact happen. Witnessed an official tell a physically disabled kid(one arm) learn how to catch and then told the coach do you coach these guys.
The scorers table heard it and was in shock. The athletic director grabbed the coaches water bottle so he couldn't throw it and then the coach tried to call a timeout and it wasn't granted.
I've since seen that official officiating multiple varsity games every year.
I know it's rare but it happens- coaches can be jerks, they are human. Officials can be jerks- they are human. Just realize some coach's reactions might be a result of something other than a bad call.
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  #94  
Old 06-03-17, 08:58 AM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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So did your AD say something to the assigner about that official's conduct (which is reprehensible if it happened the way you describe)?
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  #95  
Old 06-03-17, 10:37 AM
hvs1717 hvs1717 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looseball View Post
I have seen hundreds of high school games over the years, and a huge percentage of the officials are simply not competent. It does become very frustrating, and now we're going to give these guys even more power. 20 years ago southwest Ohio had much better officiating and coaches were better behaved. Imagine that. The problem is with the officials. I really do question their knowledge, judgement and experience with the game. You will never convince me that most of them played. They just don't have a feel for the game.
A lot of potentially good referees want nothing to do with it because they don't want to deal with the abuse. The coaches can be bad but most of the time the fans are much worse. All sports are dealing with a dearth of good officiating because of this.
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  #96  
Old 06-03-17, 10:54 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by madworld View Post
So can athletic directors t up officials when they show up a player or a coach?
If an official does something to show up a player or coach, the assigner, league commissioner and the OHSAA will have an e-mail about it before the official gets out of the shower. (I've been the recepient of a phone call or two shortly after leaving a facility asking "what happened?" between a member of my crew and a coach that night)

If true, sanctions will and should be enacted against said official.
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  #97  
Old 06-03-17, 11:18 AM
chlnewbie chlnewbie is offline
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Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
If an official does something to show up a player or coach, the assigner, league commissioner and the OHSAA will have an e-mail about it before the official gets out of the shower. (I've been the recepient of a phone call or two shortly after leaving a facility asking "what happened?" between a member of my crew and a coach that night)

If true, sanctions will and should be enacted against said official.
Not saying you do this, but an assigner calling a member of the crew for the story is almost at times as useless as the assigner calling the assistant coach of the team. Everyone is going to protect their own.
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  #98  
Old 06-03-17, 11:45 AM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Originally Posted by chlnewbie View Post
Not saying you do this, but an assigner calling a member of the crew for the story is almost at times as useless as the assigner calling the assistant coach of the team. Everyone is going to protect their own.
You'd be surprised. I'm not saying it isn't true to an extent, but if I'm working with an official who is putting s*it into the game and I get a call about it, you best believe I will be giving the story as I saw it as accurately as possible. Because more than likely that's someone I don't want to work with again.

I'll go out on a limb and say most officials would do as I would, the exceptions being those who are buddy-buddy with the offender.
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  #99  
Old 06-03-17, 11:53 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by chlnewbie View Post
Not saying you do this, but an assigner calling a member of the crew for the story is almost at times as useless as the assigner calling the assistant coach of the team. Everyone is going to protect their own.
Everyone ???


Bull____ !
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  #100  
Old 06-03-17, 11:59 AM
chlnewbie chlnewbie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Everyone ???


Bull____ !
Christ, Of course NO NOT EVERYONE! Sorry for that Literal Larry
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  #101  
Old 06-03-17, 03:37 PM
USA70PP USA70PP is offline
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And the title of this thread is........?
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  #102  
Old 06-03-17, 06:34 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by USA70PP View Post
And the title of this thread is........?
2017-18 NFHS Rules Changes

There is the title if you couldn't find it. But if that was sarcasm, if we stuck to the title the thread would have ended 3 pages ago and we wouldn't not have had a good discussion among members. Which is what this site may be for.
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  #103  
Old 06-03-17, 07:55 PM
USMC_Key USMC_Key is offline
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Zebrastripes,

It's a shame you're on here. All your posts are about what "YOU" allow and what "YOU" don't allow. It's not about you.

Bottom line, if you're not there for the kids, to ref for the kids, and and provide positive role modeling for the kids, then "YOU" shouldn't be a ref. Do what you do for the kids.
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  #104  
Old 06-03-17, 08:01 PM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMC_Key View Post
Zebrastripes,

It's a shame you're on here. All your posts are about what "YOU" allow and what "YOU" don't allow. It's not about you.

Bottom line, if you're not there for the kids, to ref for the kids, and and provide positive role modeling for the kids, then "YOU" shouldn't be a ref. Do what you do for the kids.
Ha. Ha. Ha. Ironically, a lot of the people I run into that talking about doing things "for the kids" aren't actually in it for the kids. They're hypocrites. Not all, but a significant number.

Thankfully, I don't need your validation.

I don't do this for the kids. I do it because I love it and I love basketball. When I stop loving it, I'll give it up.

See you at the gym in the winter.
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  #105  
Old 06-04-17, 09:34 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by USMC_Key View Post

Bottom line, if you're not there for the kids, to ref for the kids, and and provide positive role modeling for the kids, then "YOU" shouldn't be a ref. Do what you do for the kids.
Insert the word "parent" for the word "ref" and you correct 70% of the problems with youth sports.
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  #106  
Old 06-04-17, 09:58 AM
USMC_Key USMC_Key is offline
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Zebra,

Thanks for proving my point!
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  #107  
Old 06-04-17, 11:36 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMC_Key View Post
Zebrastripes,

It's a shame you're on here. All your posts are about what "YOU" allow and what "YOU" don't allow. It's not about you.

Bottom line, if you're not there for the kids, to ref for the kids, and and provide positive role modeling for the kids, then "YOU" shouldn't be a ref. Do what you do for the kids.
Many refs do it for the money. The ones that have the big ego have a bonus.
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  #108  
Old 06-05-17, 12:28 PM
yakyak yakyak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
Many refs do it for the money. The ones that have the big ego have a bonus.
For the money? They get like 20 bucks a game ( I think). It takes 3 games just to pay for the shoes.

Spirit, have you been in a competitive environment before in High School? The reason I ask, a lot of fan only people do not understand whats it like to be in the arena and having to make split second decisions. Then having peers yell at you for the decision that many times is a 50/50 call. Have you had a chance to experience that yet? If you have, I cant imaging your tone with regards to officials.
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  #109  
Old 06-05-17, 01:03 PM
zebrastripes zebrastripes is offline
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We make significantly more than $20/game at the high school level. Regardless, what a lot of people don't understand is all the activities that we aren't paid for: camps, clinics, association meetings, travel to and from the game site, uniforms, insurance, registration fees...there is a lot of work and money that goes into officiating and we are only compensated for the games we work; we are independent contractors, after all. Not complaining at all because I love what I do, but when you factor in all the time and effort that is required to be put in off the court, the hourly rate is not substantial.
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  #110  
Old 06-05-17, 05:49 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Don't forget the tax man and the cut he gets.
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  #111  
Old 06-05-17, 06:18 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by yakyak View Post
For the money? They get like 20 bucks a game ( I think). It takes 3 games just to pay for the shoes.
Try closer to $60-$70 a game at the varsity level. If a ref picks up girls games or freshman games Mon thru Thurs and then works boys varsity on Friday and Saturday, a ref can make $300-$400 a week. Some will do all that and even add a girls game early in the day on Saturday. Even lower level refs working multiple junior high and freshman games can make over $200 a week and have the weekend off. I'm not saying a ref can get rich from calling basketball games but they are paid well. When you attend a game every person involved has put time in and paid some form of a fee to be there; refs, coach, players fans.
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  #112  
Old 06-05-17, 06:32 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
Try closer to $60-$70 a game at the varsity level. If a ref picks up girls games or freshman games Mon thru Thurs and then works boys varsity on Friday and Saturday, a ref can make $300-$400 a week. Some will do all that and even add a girls game early in the day on Saturday. Even lower level refs working multiple junior high and freshman games can make over $200 a week and have the weekend off. I'm not saying a ref can get rich from calling basketball games but they are paid well. When you attend a game every person involved has put time in and paid some form of a fee to be there; refs, coach, players fans.
And come tax time, you get kicked in the pants. That $300-$400 a week for 12 weeks is greatly reduced.
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  #113  
Old 06-05-17, 06:38 PM
Talk some sense Talk some sense is offline
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Spirit - give it a rest

I'm not sure what your ax is - but it's been ground already. Take the Mark Twain advice and keep your mouth so as to quit revealing what a fool you are. Google the quote if you're confused. To all the refs who take pride in their craft, I give you all the kudos in the world and appreciate your contribution.
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  #114  
Old 06-05-17, 07:11 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by Talk some sense View Post
I'm not sure what your ax is - but it's been ground already. Take the Mark Twain advice and keep your mouth so as to quit revealing what a fool you are. Google the quote if you're confused. To all the refs who take pride in their craft, I give you all the kudos in the world and appreciate your contribution.
You misunderstand me. I was only posting info. I have no ax nor do I have reason for one. I respect the position officials hold and the work they do as well as fans, players and coaches. I have been all four at different points of my life. None are more important than the other but all have there place and their role in the game. If I did have an issue it is when some thinks they are above the others they work with. Stick to reading Mark Twain.
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  #115  
Old 06-05-17, 07:12 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
And come tax time, you get kicked in the pants. That $300-$400 a week for 12 weeks is greatly reduced.
Would not doubt that a bit.
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  #116  
Old 06-06-17, 08:12 AM
JElder JElder is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
Try closer to $60-$70 a game at the varsity level. If a ref picks up girls games or freshman games Mon thru Thurs and then works boys varsity on Friday and Saturday, a ref can make $300-$400 a week. Some will do all that and even add a girls game early in the day on Saturday. Even lower level refs working multiple junior high and freshman games can make over $200 a week and have the weekend off. I'm not saying a ref can get rich from calling basketball games but they are paid well. When you attend a game every person involved has put time in and paid some form of a fee to be there; refs, coach, players fans.
Now add up all the hours it took to make that money during the week along with gas, wear and tear on your vehicle, time away from family and friends, and the abuse that's taken and it works out to roughly the same salary as a McDonalds cashier.
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  #117  
Old 06-06-17, 09:01 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by JElder View Post
Now add up all the hours it took to make that money during the week along with gas, wear and tear on your vehicle, time away from family and friends, and the abuse that's taken and it works out to roughly the same salary as a McDonalds cashier.
My buddy's daughter was a fast food cashier for years and was very happy with her check.
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  #118  
Old 06-06-17, 09:27 AM
JElder JElder is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
My buddy's daughter was a fast food cashier for years and was very happy with her check.
Awesome!
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  #119  
Old 06-06-17, 09:24 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by JElder View Post
Awesome!
She thought so.
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