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  #1  
Old 07-13-17, 12:08 PM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Holding back a player in grade school

On another thread, there is a discussion about a freshman QB who was held back in the 7th grade, ostensibly to give him another year to physically develop before moving on to high school. This is NOT intended to be about that young man! There is a thread devoted to that already! My question here is, "Is this a growing trend?"; and "Is this a good/bad thing?" I remember seeing an ESPN 30/30 show about a kid who was held back a year and developed to the point where he earned a scholarship at Duke (although it was a little unclear to me whether he would have earned it had he not been held back). So, on the positive side, given the expense of college, I can't blame a family for holding their son back (especially in a violent sport like football) to give the kid time to physically mature and to put the player in a better position to earn a scholarship. On the other hand, I wonder about the social cost of holding a kid back and taking him out of the classroom with the other kids he has gone to school with for 7 years. Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 07-13-17, 12:12 PM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is offline
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In some towns, this is commonplace.
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  #3  
Old 07-13-17, 12:21 PM
Buckeye Elite Buckeye Elite is offline
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Happens a lot in hoops
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  #4  
Old 07-13-17, 12:22 PM
arizonawildcat arizonawildcat is offline
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As long as the parents are willing to pay the costs for keeping the child back in the same grade, I have no problem with it other than the harm it does to the child's socialization skills.
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  #5  
Old 07-13-17, 12:30 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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It's the boon of the mid-major coach, to find the less developed kid with the potential. If the big boys need to use their schollies on the one and done's, and the mid-majors get the four years that turn out just as good, everyone is happy.

Personally, I think the holding back has it's own negative connotation, says your kid can't compete naturally (to the matriculation system in place) and that's who he is but if it works, it works. I guess I have an "on the other hand." The matriculation system itself is kind of artificial isn't it. 14-15 years old, 18-19, these are kind of blurry aribtrary a year or two either way. I recall overseas that one place I taught, my students graduated Secondary at 20-21. There was an "extra" year built in from what we do.
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  #6  
Old 07-13-17, 12:51 PM
fallsdog fallsdog is offline
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And for great majority of kids the great reward is a stellar varsity career at a senior high school.

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  #7  
Old 07-13-17, 12:59 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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An unfortunate reality I suppose. I am sure there are others but the only good reason I can think of is an increased opportunity for an otherwise unaffordable college education. Beyond that the reasoning becomes increasingly lame imo, but I don't know every story.
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  #8  
Old 07-13-17, 12:59 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Jimmy Clausen is the example that I've used a number of times about the excessive holding back (before they start school or in middle school, both are the same to me) for athletic success.

Born September 21, 1987. Played his Senior year in HS in 2006. Most of the season, he was a 19 year old competing with kids as young as 14. Depending on other school systems cutoff dates, there were kids his age that were starting their sophomore year in college.
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  #9  
Old 07-13-17, 01:08 PM
smashmouth56 smashmouth56 is offline
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if holding back a student allows him to graduate at 18 versus 17, not a big issue on my part. Some kids mature physically later than others.

In the Jimmy Claussen case spending most of your senior year at 19 is too much.
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  #10  
Old 07-13-17, 01:13 PM
USA70PP USA70PP is offline
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"Back in the day", graduated in 1958, most kids graduated at 17 or 18. Much has changed since the "past century".
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  #11  
Old 07-13-17, 01:14 PM
tom 48 tom 48 is offline
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If you have ever seen the movie " Go Tigers!" the star football players had been held back in 8th grade. In the interview, they said that the reason given was that they weren't ready for hs, but they also acknowledged that the reason was for football. One of the moms said that many parents were doing it, and she couldn't understand why everyone wasn't. That was their choice. The boys didn't seem to be adversely affected, so just go ahead and be upfront about it." We're making our son repeat eighth grade so he will have another year to physically develop in order to play football." But then, let's not moan that other schools have such an advantage over yours, when you kids are a year older and more developed physically.

Last edited by tom 48; 07-13-17 at 02:45 PM.
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  #12  
Old 07-13-17, 01:30 PM
Zezzo! Zezzo! is offline
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If a kid or when a kid gets held back in grades K-6 for maturity reasons,what's the difference? The kid wil mature holistically,actually this is nothing new it's been happening forever.......
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  #13  
Old 07-13-17, 01:33 PM
Raider6309 Raider6309 is offline
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Happens at football schools. Usually to keep good linemen with good skill players. A rival school of Athens held back it's entire team in middle School. That school has a rich football tradition but never really had anyone go D1
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  #14  
Old 07-13-17, 01:39 PM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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I had no idea it was this prevalent. I mean, I can certainly understand why you would choose to do it. But I was just unaware it was done so frequently.
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  #15  
Old 07-13-17, 01:41 PM
fbrox fbrox is offline
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This is what is commonly referred to as the "Massilon Redshirt".
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  #16  
Old 07-13-17, 01:44 PM
Raider6309 Raider6309 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
I had no idea it was this prevalent. I mean, I can certainly understand why you would choose to do it. But I was just unaware it was done so frequently.
VJ King was held back

Last edited by Raider6309; 07-13-17 at 02:34 PM.
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  #17  
Old 07-13-17, 02:14 PM
arizonawildcat arizonawildcat is offline
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Well, this is definitely one advantage public schools have over the privates. Holding a kid back in a parochial school would cost the parents anywhere from 3,000 to 5,000 dollars in tuition and related costs. Apparently there are no extra costs for parents holding a kid back in public schools.
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  #18  
Old 07-13-17, 02:32 PM
4cards 4cards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbrox View Post
This is what is commonly referred to as the "Massilon Redshirt".
...lol, I was going to post this same thing!
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  #19  
Old 07-13-17, 02:45 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallsdog View Post
And for great majority of kids the great reward is a stellar varsity career at a senior high school.
Wouldn't they have that otherwise? What works in athletics would work in academics. If that's the path to a "steller career" maybe it should be mandatory? But then if they all did it, wouldn't it just equalize out?

What's wrong with a parent instead just teaching the kid to work harder and better and letting the cards fall? Projecting that wasted year to post secondary, they'll have cost their kid a year of income. Sorry, I find your reasoning for a parent purposely failing their own kid kind of flawed. Sarcasm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arizonawildcat View Post
Well, this is definitely one advantage public schools have over the privates. Holding a kid back in a parochial school would cost the parents anywhere from 3,000 to 5,000 dollars in tuition and related costs. Apparently there are no extra costs for parents holding a kid back in public schools.
unless that private school happens to be running one of those little academies with the "special programs." Or they poach off a kid. That's too tempting to convince a kid's parents to "hold back" their child in order to have a better chance at a roster spot at their private school. We know these things happen. Don't think there's any advantage the private school is going to let a competitor have. So while we know your skipping of those morality classes has led you to a life of bitter denigrating of schools that teach ALL God's children, at least show some logic to your posts.
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  #20  
Old 07-13-17, 02:48 PM
fallsdog fallsdog is offline
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I am thinking you missed the sarcasm in my response. Literally translated, it reads...

And because the vast majority of student athletes in the state of ohio will never see a division one scholarship offer let alone a professional signing bonus, the grand prize is most likely a stellar athletic career at the high school level.
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  #21  
Old 07-13-17, 02:55 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USA70PP View Post
"Back in the day", graduated in 1958, most kids graduated at 17 or 18. Much has changed since the "past century".
"Back in the day," graduated jr high and went to work in the factory or fields, lol. Why did kids bother finishing high school if they weren't going to college? I'm pretty sure factories had a minimum age requirement, not so much farms. I'm trying to remember at what point the factories started making high school dipoma a requirement. Would have been after 58 I'm pretty sure. Maybe not long after. Pretty sure I had family getting jobs at the Chevy and Jeep plants well into the 60s with no GED.
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  #22  
Old 07-13-17, 02:57 PM
arizonawildcat arizonawildcat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
unless that private school happens to be running one of those little academies with the "special programs." Or they poach off a kid. That's too tempting to convince a kid's parents to "hold back" their child in order to have a better chance at a roster spot at their private school. We know these things happen. Don't think there's any advantage the private school is going to let a competitor have. So while we know your skipping of those morality classes has led you to a life of bitter denigrating of schools that teach ALL God's children, at least show some logic to your posts.
Your blatant anti-Catholicism which shows itself in many of your posts makes your comments laughable.
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  #23  
Old 07-13-17, 03:01 PM
nooks nooks is offline
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As a guy who wasn't "full grown" til my Jr. year in college...I sure wish to hel somebody would've held me back. I'd have been a monster my Sr. year of H.S.
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  #24  
Old 07-13-17, 03:31 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Why not?

If you can kid your kid born in November on the field as a 19 year 9 month old senior and playing against 15-17 year olds he will look like a god out there.

Maybe win state, get that scholly and who knows after that.
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  #25  
Old 07-13-17, 03:33 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
Jimmy Clausen is the example that I've used a number of times about the excessive holding back (before they start school or in middle school, both are the same to me) for athletic success.

Born September 21, 1987. Played his Senior year in HS in 2006. Most of the season, he was a 19 year old competing with kids as young as 14. Depending on other school systems cutoff dates, there were kids his age that were starting their sophomore year in college.
and he got found out in college... like most of these other 19-20 year olds will
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  #26  
Old 07-13-17, 03:47 PM
CJK84 CJK84 is offline
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I dislike when parents do this (or when they hold their sons back from starting Kindergarten) - it gives the kid an unfair advantage. I've had three sons play hs football (youngest is still playing) - all were/will be 17 during their entire senior season of football.

My second son, for instance, has a May birthday and was not held back. So even as a senior, he played against a few kids who were more than a year older - played against a few juniors who were older than he was as a senior. That's not the end of the world, of course, but it seems unfair.
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  #27  
Old 07-13-17, 04:00 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJK84 View Post
I dislike when parents do this (or when they hold their sons back from starting Kindergarten) - it gives the kid an unfair advantage. I've had three sons play hs football (youngest is still playing) - all were/will be 17 during their entire senior season of football.

My second son, for instance, has a May birthday and was not held back. So even as a senior, he played against a few kids who were more than a year older - played against a few juniors who were older than he was as a senior. That's not the end of the world, of course, but it seems unfair.
A kids age is not easily manipulated, but their grade is...... so why do we choose to go by that and only that for football?
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  #28  
Old 07-13-17, 04:12 PM
GCLFan99 GCLFan99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJK84 View Post
I dislike when parents do this (or when they hold their sons back from starting Kindergarten) - it gives the kid an unfair advantage. I've had three sons play hs football (youngest is still playing) - all were/will be 17 during their entire senior season of football.

My second son, for instance, has a May birthday and was not held back. So even as a senior, he played against a few kids who were more than a year older - played against a few juniors who were older than he was as a senior. That's not the end of the world, of course, but it seems unfair.
In my experience that advantages tends to wane significantly by the varsity years in high school. I have seen a number of kids who were older (although I don't know why the parents reasoning for starting them later) and the advantage tended to be most pronounced in grade school and possibly freshmen year.

As for not being fair....life is not fair. This certainly won't be the last time your children or others will encounter disadvantages.
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  #29  
Old 07-13-17, 04:29 PM
Fan of Football Fan of Football is offline
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We kept all of our kids at home an extra year, prior to kindergarten. The extra year at home made a huge difference academically, socially, and they were more "ready" to start. It had nothing to do with athletic reasons. We were fortunate that my wife was able to put her career on hold to do this. I know it would be tough for many, but I am not sure why everyone does not do this. I also shake my head when other parents tell me that they want to get their kids "out of the house" as the reason for getting them into school.
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  #30  
Old 07-13-17, 04:48 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan of Football View Post
We kept all of our kids at home an extra year, prior to kindergarten. The extra year at home made a huge difference academically, socially, and they were more "ready" to start. It had nothing to do with athletic reasons. We were fortunate that my wife was able to put her career on hold to do this. I know it would be tough for many, but I am not sure why everyone does not do this. I also shake my head when other parents tell me that they want to get their kids "out of the house" as the reason for getting them into school.
Very, very rarely is the reasoning based on sports

just a happy accident for most
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