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View Poll Results: How many wins for the Tiger in 17
4 18 34.62%
6 14 26.92%
6 15 28.85%
10+ 5 9.62%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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  #91  
Old 06-30-17, 06:22 PM
23xTigers 23xTigers is offline
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Keep the booster club, just scale back it's reach to a supporting role as it was intended. You were right when you said no coach could thrive in this environment, where they're nothing more than a figure head for the club on the sidelines, serving at the leisure of the club. That will never work the coach must be free to implement his philosophy and he must be the Alpha and Omega, in other words it has to begin and end with him, no meddling middle men.

Listen, anywhere you go and you are a coach there are expectations. Massillon is it's high school football program and it will be that way as long as Washington High School is in existence. We expect to win and in the years we are lean on talent you at least better compete. People will not tolerate mediocrity, no excuses, and I wouldn't want the standard to be any lower. With that said you are going to have down years, but even in the down years you expect to be competitive and to see the team improve each week. Unrealistic expectations is thinking you need all this "talent" to win in DII or that we need to have a schedule loaded with perennial Catholic powers from across the State.

This job should be a dream job for the right coach, someone who is a program builder and interested in a restoration project. With a solid foundation that exists at Massillon that is really unique and maybe unlike in place in the country. Think about stringing together a few really good seasons at Massillon,including a State Championship run and this place would be on absolute fire. Tradition resurrected and you would awake a sleeping giant. This is a tremendous job for the right fully invested individual.

As for myself I would love to be more active in the program, heck I would love to run the program. Unfortunately or fortunately I am a railroad man in the engineering department, my job requires me to travel 4 sometimes 5 days out of the week so I don't have the time to invest.
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  #92  
Old 06-30-17, 07:06 PM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 23xTigers View Post
Keep the booster club, just scale back it's reach to a supporting role as it was intended. You were right when you said no coach could thrive in this environment, where they're nothing more than a figure head for the club on the sidelines, serving at the leisure of the club. That will never work the coach must be free to implement his philosophy and he must be the Alpha and Omega, in other words it has to begin and end with him, no meddling middle men.

Listen, anywhere you go and you are a coach there are expectations. Massillon is it's high school football program and it will be that way as long as Washington High School is in existence. We expect to win and in the years we are lean on talent you at least better compete. People will not tolerate mediocrity, no excuses, and I wouldn't want the standard to be any lower. With that said you are going to have down years, but even in the down years you expect to be competitive and to see the team improve each week. Unrealistic expectations is thinking you need all this "talent" to win in DII or that we need to have a schedule loaded with perennial Catholic powers from across the State.

This job should be a dream job for the right coach, someone who is a program builder and interested in a restoration project. With a solid foundation that exists at Massillon that is really unique and maybe unlike in place in the country. Think about stringing together a few really good seasons at Massillon,including a State Championship run and this place would be on absolute fire. Tradition resurrected and you would awake a sleeping giant. This is a tremendous job for the right fully invested individual.

As for myself I would love to be more active in the program, heck I would love to run the program. Unfortunately or fortunately I am a railroad man in the engineering department, my job requires me to travel 4 sometimes 5 days out of the week so I don't have the time to invest.
THIS is "unrealistic expectations."
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  #93  
Old 06-30-17, 07:28 PM
Crimson and Black Crimson and Black is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkgriswold View Post
Recognition of, and adherence to, any tradition gets tougher with every year that passes without meeting expectations. Also, in this day and age, a teenage boy is unlikely to give a damn about the legacy of Paul Brown.

It seems Massillon suffers from the principle of "too many cooks spoil the broth." Too many people, especially some influential boosters, thinking they have or actually having a role in the process. Hire a damn coach and get out of the way rather than persistently and chronically question his every move.
Any kid that forgets or gives a hoot about the legacy of Paul Brown, or Bob Cummings or Mike Currence or the history of Massillon Tiger football should not be playing for Massillon. Not giving a hoot about the past is a GIANT PROBLEM. If present day Tiger squads are not trying to add to that tradition it makes the program just like all the others. To not tap into what the history of Massillon football is a huge failure on whatever staff is in place. My god, the tradition is SECOND TO NONE...... use it
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  #94  
Old 06-30-17, 07:29 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackinbiner View Post
THIS is "unrealistic expectations."
Not necessarily. I think the key is in any year, find something you're good at it, find a way to compete. You see that in MAC schools that are hugely overmatched but find a way to at least put a scare for a half in the big conference teams that they schedule for payday homecoming games. That's the sign of a talented coach. A bad coach (or program) is one who refuses to adjust to new realities and doesn't put the kids in a position to win. I think some people are being a little dramatic as the situation at Massillon is not THAT bad, but I understand the point.

That having been, unless the cupboard is totally bare this year, I think things should be looking up as Massillon was on the upswing in the second half of the season last year. Wins over four playoff teams. Don't let Dublin Scioto become Perrysburg part 2.
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  #95  
Old 06-30-17, 08:46 PM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson and Black View Post
Any kid that forgets or gives a hoot about the legacy of Paul Brown, or Bob Cummings or Mike Currence or the history of Massillon Tiger football should not be playing for Massillon. Not giving a hoot about the past is a GIANT PROBLEM. If present day Tiger squads are not trying to add to that tradition it makes the program just like all the others. To not tap into what the history of Massillon football is a huge failure on whatever staff is in place. My god, the tradition is SECOND TO NONE...... use it
I agree Crimson that it is a legacy that should be embraced, but with today's youth, I'm skeptical that many of them would care.
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  #96  
Old 07-02-17, 08:19 AM
my2sense my2sense is offline
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Let's get our timetable on track:

July - talk begins of the awesome off season workouts and unbelievable talent seen on 7-on-7s. Expectations start climbing. The new quarterback has the best arm since Brody Tonn. New recruits are better than Spielman ever was. This could be our year!!!!!!!!!!!

August - a scrimmage win versus somebody takes expectations up three notches. Talk of Moore always being great in his third season as coach skyrockets. Grown men swoon over thoughts of the glory days. The fact that they lost a bunch of talent from last year means nothing. This squad is loaded at every position.

September - a narrow win over Glen Oak starts the chest thumping. "We are the best in Stark" and "Jackson and Perry and everyone is afraid of us".

October - the reality of a six win season turns the expectations into angry criticism. Egret - still moderated since May - is the only voice of reason. Causes for fifty plus years of no title center on the location of the middle school some failed coordinator that no one even knows.

Last edited by my2sense; 07-02-17 at 09:21 AM.
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  #97  
Old 07-02-17, 08:29 AM
Egret Egret is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my2sense View Post
Let's get our timetable on track:

July - talk begins of the awesome off season workouts and unbelievable talent seen on 7-on-7s. Expectations start climbing. The new quarterback has the best arm since Brody Tonn. New recruits are better than Spielman ever was. This could be our year!!!!!!!!!!!

August - a scrimmage win versus somebody takes expectations up three notches. Talk of Moore always being great in his third season as coach skyrockets. Grown men swoon over thoughts of the glory days. The fact that they lost a bunch of talent from last year means nothing. This squad is loaded at every position.

October - the reality of a six win season turns the expectations into angry criticism. Egret - still moderated since May - is the only voice of reason. Causes for fifty plus years of no title center on the location of themiddle school.
Yep. Still moderated. A crock of BS for sure but your post pretty much sums it up.
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  #98  
Old 07-02-17, 09:23 AM
my2sense my2sense is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleFan View Post
When is 1st year of available football in Massillon?
There is a pre-natal team forming to get them ready to hold the football they put in the crib.
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  #99  
Old 07-02-17, 11:56 AM
Crimson and Black Crimson and Black is offline
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Nail on head

Quote:
Originally Posted by 23xTigers View Post
Keep the booster club, just scale back it's reach to a supporting role as it was intended. You were right when you said no coach could thrive in this environment, where they're nothing more than a figure head for the club on the sidelines, serving at the leisure of the club. That will never work the coach must be free to implement his philosophy and he must be the Alpha and Omega, in other words it has to begin and end with him, no meddling middle men.

Listen, anywhere you go and you are a coach there are expectations. Massillon is it's high school football program and it will be that way as long as Washington High School is in existence. We expect to win and in the years we are lean on talent you at least better compete. People will not tolerate mediocrity, no excuses, and I wouldn't want the standard to be any lower. With that said you are going to have down years, but even in the down years you expect to be competitive and to see the team improve each week. Unrealistic expectations is thinking you need all this "talent" to win in DII or that we need to have a schedule loaded with perennial Catholic powers from across the State.

This job should be a dream job for the right coach, someone who is a program builder and interested in a restoration project. With a solid foundation that exists at Massillon that is really unique and maybe unlike in place in the country. Think about stringing together a few really good seasons at Massillon,including a State Championship run and this place would be on absolute fire. Tradition resurrected and you would awake a sleeping giant. This is a tremendous job for the right fully invested individual.

As for myself I would love to be more active in the program, heck I would love to run the program. Unfortunately or fortunately I am a railroad man in the engineering department, my job requires me to travel 4 sometimes 5 days out of the week so I don't have the time to invest.
23.... I think you hit the nail on the head. A championship season would ignite the fan base and bring that tradition out of hibernation. I also agree in your sleeping giant theory. I didn't considered what just one tiltle would do. I was only thinking how difficult it would be to relight the tradition fire.

I remember after years of mediocrity and sprinkled in with some less than mediocre teams in Steub. That first championship was a rebirth for Big Red football and since that game the lore and tradition has only gotten better. And it has been just as much fun as if these were D1 titles. We have played for D2, 3 and 4 titles..... The Tiger machine is growling and that giant will awaken.
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  #100  
Old 07-02-17, 05:32 PM
Cali_Eagle Cali_Eagle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson and Black View Post
Any kid that forgets or gives a hoot about the legacy of Paul Brown, or Bob Cummings or Mike Currence or the history of Massillon Tiger football should not be playing for Massillon. Not giving a hoot about the past is a GIANT PROBLEM. If present day Tiger squads are not trying to add to that tradition it makes the program just like all the others. To not tap into what the history of Massillon football is a huge failure on whatever staff is in place. My god, the tradition is SECOND TO NONE...... use it
I notice in this post that C&B mentions 3 of the Greatest head coaches in Tiger history. I think the next time the Tiger program needs to seek out a new head coach they ought to stop and take a long hard look at the process they used to hire one last time. To do a Nationwide search, get some really good, well credentialed, and eager candidates; then disregard them all to go off on a snipe hunt all around the State... Well.... I'm an outsider and I don't know all the nuts and bolts of Tiger program politics. But I was totally amazed and my mouth was left hanging open at the laborious charade that those candidates were put through.

I think if you do a nationwide search, you hire one of those candidates (as long as they are truly qualified of course) especially one that really wants the job and wants to stay on and be in Massillon and build up and sustain the program. If on the other hand, there is someone you know REALLY want, you go straight to them and settle it immediately and don't put everyone else through an elaborate sham process.

I think it all starts and ends with the Head Coach and that hiring process is much too important to be run like a three ring circus or Chinese fire drill. I doubt Paul Brown would have put up with all that back in 1932... He'd have thought "Geezzz My old hometown and they've all gone insane..." I wonder who you would have wound up with in his place?

When you next need a Head Coach, if you get the right man, the sleeping giant that is Tiger football will awaken and winning will again become the norm, not something abstract to just be explained away as to why it isn't happening.

Just my 2 cents from an outside observer.
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  #101  
Old 07-02-17, 08:43 PM
23xTigers 23xTigers is offline
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Crimson, thanks for the positive assessments of my previous post. For a long time the Massillon Tiger football program has been grossly mismanaged. Until the process changes, we will continue to fall short, but those in trusted to run the program use it to artificially inflate their own egos and that has had a big hand in holding us back. So we'll see what the future holds for us.

We have a solid foundation that exists and that will never go away, but it has been a bit tarnished. Moore is a question mark,I am just not sold on the fact that he's fully invested, he's just bidding his time and he can now put Massillon on the resume. We'll see what he does this year, I feel there are definitely some nice pieces in place, particularly Thomas who is just a Jr and a four star recruit. With having Cupps his most trusted Coordinator resign in embarrassing fashion and then the Munford experiment not panning out, there is two strikes. Even though expectations aren't particularly high, he can't afford to completely crash and burn either.
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  #102  
Old 07-03-17, 05:37 AM
Egret Egret is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 23xTigers View Post
Crimson, thanks for the positive assessments of my previous post. For a long time the Massillon Tiger football program has been grossly mismanaged. Until the process changes, we will continue to fall short, but those in trusted to run the program use it to artificially inflate their own egos and that has had a big hand in holding us back. So we'll see what the future holds for us.

We have a solid foundation that exists and that will never go away, but it has been a bit tarnished. Moore is a question mark,I am just not sold on the fact that he's fully invested, he's just bidding his time and he can now put Massillon on the resume. We'll see what he does this year, I feel there are definitely some nice pieces in place, particularly Thomas who is just a Jr and a four star recruit. With having Cupps his most trusted Coordinator resign in embarrassing fashion and then the Munford experiment not panning out, there is two strikes. Even though expectations aren't particularly high, he can't afford to completely crash and burn either.
I think this snippet is also part of the problem. Tell me exactly what that means? That on your resume' doesn't hold squat to what it has in years past. In addition, you could also put on your resume' you were the CEO of IBM too. But if your record was less than stellar, as is the current case, does that really mean anything?
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  #103  
Old 07-03-17, 07:47 AM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Right after Hall was canned the AD stated: “I still believe the Massillon coaching job is one of the best in Ohio. I believe it’s the Browns, Bengals, Buckeyes and Massillon’s football coach.” I guess it's a good thing that he's so positive, but I wonder if statements like that just set the program up for more ridicule.
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  #104  
Old 07-03-17, 07:49 AM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egret View Post
Yep. Still moderated. A crock of BS for sure but your post pretty much sums it up.
We need to schedule a mental health assessment for you E. You just agreed with my2sense.
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  #105  
Old 07-03-17, 07:59 AM
Egret Egret is offline
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Originally Posted by clarkgriswold View Post
We need to schedule a mental health assessment for you E. You just agreed with my2sense.
LOL. Although rare it does happen occasionally.
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  #106  
Old 07-03-17, 02:01 PM
Crimson and Black Crimson and Black is offline
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It's going to take a championship and like 23 said the place will be on fire. More kids will see the fun and attention it brings and pretty soon you no longer have kids walking the halls of WHS that could contribute but are not. Everyone will want to be part of Tiger football. I really hope it happens. Ohio HS football, for me, is better and much more fun when Massillon is a yearly contender.
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  #107  
Old 07-03-17, 02:20 PM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Originally Posted by Crimson and Black View Post
It's going to take a championship and like 23 said the place will be on fire. More kids will see the fun and attention it brings and pretty soon you no longer have kids walking the halls of WHS that could contribute but are not. Everyone will want to be part of Tiger football. I really hope it happens. Ohio HS football, for me, is better and much more fun when Massillon is a yearly contender.
Agreed C&B. However, I think the following related questions need to be asked:
1. Does the program have the horses to get there? It's not 1964 when the town was booming and people were coming there to work and for their kids to be Tigers.
2. Is the youth system building the players to get them there?
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  #108  
Old 07-03-17, 02:21 PM
23xTigers 23xTigers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egret View Post
I think this snippet is also part of the problem. Tell me exactly what that means? That on your resume' doesn't hold squat to what it has in years past. In addition, you could also put on your resume' you were the CEO of IBM too. But if your record was less than stellar, as is the current case, does that really mean anything?
Massillon is a brand, regardless of it's current state. The fact Massillon is currently in a down cycle is absolutely irrelevant, it is all about name/brand recognition. Like it or not that's the way things work, ex. Notre Dame on the resume garners more attention than does S.Florida.
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  #109  
Old 07-03-17, 02:33 PM
firewatch firewatch is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkgriswold View Post
Agreed C&B. However, I think the following related questions need to be asked:
1. Does the program have the horses to get there? It's not 1964 when the town was booming and people were coming there to work and for their kids to be Tigers.
2. Is the youth system building the players to get them there?
1. Yes 2. No not even close.
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  #110  
Old 07-03-17, 03:03 PM
AuntBea AuntBea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson and Black View Post
23.... I think you hit the nail on the head. A championship season would ignite the fan base and bring that tradition out of hibernation. I also agree in your sleeping giant theory. I didn't considered what just one tiltle would do. I was only thinking how difficult it would be to relight the tradition fire.

I remember after years of mediocrity and sprinkled in with some less than mediocre teams in Steub. That first championship was a rebirth for Big Red football and since that game the lore and tradition has only gotten better. And it has been just as much fun as if these were D1 titles. We have played for D2, 3 and 4 titles..... The Tiger machine is growling and that giant will awaken.
I love how this Steub. fan continues to drink that Cool Aid! You really need to look around and take a hard look. Steub. plays a cup cake schedule in a cupcake region and then proceeds to LOSE B2B State Championships to the SAME team which was way SMALLER. What a LAUGH! They only tradition currently in Steub. is ducking and weaving and marching their 2nd place trophy down the one stop-light main street. Love how their Coach beats his players on TV, must be a new type of motivation technique.
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  #111  
Old 07-03-17, 10:04 PM
Crimson and Black Crimson and Black is offline
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Whatever you say Bea. You're entitled to your opinion...now go lay down by your bowl and behave.

I think there will always be enough talent at Massillon to win and win big. I have witnessed many talent challenged teams have big success and win titles. It's all about the coaching.
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  #112  
Old 07-03-17, 11:39 PM
23xTigers 23xTigers is offline
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Aunt, your criticism of Steubenville is a bit short sighted. Big Red has had some extremely talented teams the past two years in particular, unfortunately the breaks just went against them in the two title games against Hartley. Big Red had opportunities to win each of those title games against Hartley. Hartley returned the bulk of their team from the previous years run, while Big Red lost a lot of key contributors, the Collaros kid at Qb and the two Blue brothers just to name a couple and they still made it back.

Myself I can appreciate what Steubenville has been able to accomplish on the field, regardless of division they have been able to get it done. That speaks to the stability over decades underneath Reno that very few programs throughout the State have. Like it or not Reno does it his way and how can you argue with success.

Love the rivalry between us and Steubenville, it's just old fashioned hard hitting football. This game needs to be on the schedule permanently. There is no place I enjoy traveling to more than Death Valley and when it's Massillon vs Steubenville the atmosphere is electric, its almost like Harding Stadium is a living,breathing monster. It just doesn't get any more intense. Go Tigers!
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  #113  
Old 07-04-17, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by 23xTigers View Post
Massillon is a brand, regardless of it's current state. The fact Massillon is currently in a down cycle is absolutely irrelevant, it is all about name/brand recognition.
This could not be more incorrect. K-Mart is a brand, JC Penney is a brand, etc. The notion that a mismanaged brand is still as attractive as ever sounds like millenial thinking. Do you think being a former coach or QB of the Cleveland Browns is a resume enhancer? Dumb.
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  #114  
Old 07-04-17, 06:18 AM
my2sense my2sense is offline
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Originally Posted by Egret View Post
LOL. Although rare it does happen occasionally.
I respect Egret for having the brains and balls to tell it like it is to these Massiloons.
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  #115  
Old 07-04-17, 06:23 AM
my2sense my2sense is offline
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Originally Posted by AuntBea View Post
I love how this Steub. fan continues to drink that Cool Aid! You really need to look around and take a hard look. Steub. plays a cup cake schedule in a cupcake region and then proceeds to LOSE B2B State Championships to the SAME team which was way SMALLER.
So let me see if I follow. Steuby fan is a "Cool Aid" drinker because they follow a team that advanced to the title game two years in a row? If most teams - including yours - played for back-to-back titles you should be thrilled. Its only Kool-aid (correct spelling) drinking when your team hasn't won a title in 55 years and you still think of yourself as "Titletown".
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  #116  
Old 07-04-17, 08:27 AM
Egret Egret is offline
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Originally Posted by my2sense View Post
So let me see if I follow. Steuby fan is a "Cool Aid" drinker because they follow a team that advanced to the title game two years in a row? If most teams - including yours - played for back-to-back titles you should be thrilled. Its only Kool-aid (correct spelling) drinking when your team hasn't won a title in 55 years and you still think of yourself as "Titletown".
And a "brand". There people is twice now we've agreed and it's even in the same thread. As far as talking about Steubenville I have no clue from what rock you crawled out from under but I would strongly suggest you climb back.
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  #117  
Old 07-04-17, 08:42 AM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Oh good Lord, the thread has broken out into a Steuby/Massillon- Egret/my2sense lovefest!

As for Egret/my2sense, I now have faith for peace in the Middle East.
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  #118  
Old 07-04-17, 09:04 AM
23xTigers 23xTigers is offline
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Originally Posted by my2sense View Post
This could not be more incorrect. K-Mart is a brand, JC Penney is a brand, etc. The notion that a mismanaged brand is still as attractive as ever sounds like millenial thinking. Do you think being a former coach or QB of the Cleveland Browns is a resume enhancer? Dumb.
Put it in its proper perspective. Being the coach or Qb of the Cleveland Browns is a resume enhancer, as opposed to being a Qb or Coach from say the CFL. It is all relative to what is being compared. 2sense like it or not Massillon is still a recognizable name and it may not be as shiny as it was in the past, but it still carries more weight than insert any high school besides Ed,Ignatius,Elder,X,or Moeller. Just truth. Go Tigers.
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  #119  
Old 07-04-17, 10:08 AM
AuntBea AuntBea is offline
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Originally Posted by 23xTigers View Post
Aunt, your criticism of Steubenville is a bit short sighted. Big Red has had some extremely talented teams the past two years in particular, unfortunately the breaks just went against them in the two title games against Hartley. Big Red had opportunities to win each of those title games against Hartley. Hartley returned the bulk of their team from the previous years run, while Big Red lost a lot of key contributors, the Collaros kid at Qb and the two Blue brothers just to name a couple and they still made it back.

Myself I can appreciate what Steubenville has been able to accomplish on the field, regardless of division they have been able to get it done. That speaks to the stability over decades underneath Reno that very few programs throughout the State have. Like it or not Reno does it his way and how can you argue with success.

Love the rivalry between us and Steubenville, it's just old fashioned hard hitting football. This game needs to be on the schedule permanently. There is no place I enjoy traveling to more than Death Valley and when it's Massillon vs Steubenville the atmosphere is electric, its almost like Harding Stadium is a living,breathing monster. It just doesn't get any more intense. Go Tigers!
Only in steub would beating your players be tolerated but this community has a history of overlooking worse which is why when you google this program you get back articles that have nothing to do with football! How sad that the lemmings are so happy with their current LEGACY. Really should dump Reno who has shown that he can't get it done in the modern era and start fresh to rebuild this troubled program aka the Penn State approach. Paterno who?
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Old 07-04-17, 10:59 AM
Crimson and Black Crimson and Black is offline
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Bea..... first of all no players have been "beaten" in the Big Red program. If your thinking a face mask shaking is a beating then you are indeed a sissy. Are the kids treated tough and worked at an unbelievable level.... yes, but for you to perpetuate the falsehood that Big Red players get beaten.
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