Massillon Tigers 2017 Season

[Egret]

Originally Posted by The Butler

I highly recommend Jimmy B's at the Beachcomber.

Take a look around for some of the brain cells I left there.

Bro. Really? Been there more times than you've been to a Perry football game. Sundays absolutely ROCK. However Toasted Monkey is starting to become "the" place. However I will look for brain cells when I make it back over there. Should have known that The Butler would know about Jimmy B's. LOL.

[Purple Hayes]

Originally Posted by The Butler

I highly recommend Jimmy B's at the Beachcomber.

Take a look around for some of the brain cells I left there.

I'm a Caddy's guy myself...good call, Carle!

[Egret]

Originally Posted by Purple Hayes

I'm a Caddy's guy myself...good call, Carle!

When was the last time you were there? It's still a good place to drink but do NOT eat there. My daughter got sick a couple of weeks ago. Great freaking location though. You guys need to ping me when you get down here. Regardless of Digit's assessment of me being over the hill I'm fun. A LOT of fun.

[Extra Point]

Originally Posted by 23xTigers

This can't be the end result for Nate Moore in his third year at the helm. It would be easier to stomach not making the playoffs,than to be embarrassed in the first round of the playoffs. There are plenty of people writing off Moore already as another failed, forced hire by the booster club "search committee". We know he's not the second coming of Rockne, but can he build upon last years regular season success? He was touted as a program building guru, he made Minster competitive in the MAC and a State Champion, he turned a never won nothing, doormat of a program in LaSalle into a perennial conteder in the GCLS and a multi time State Champion. When you think about it, that's pretty impressive?

So what is stunting the growth at Massillon? We have the pedigree, we have a beautiful stadium and facilities,great tradition, and a rabid supportive fan base. We should have no problem winning consistently at a very high level, especially in DII. Are the kids not fully invested, is the coach not fully invested?

Don't give Moore too much credit for LaSalle's success. They had the best talent the school has seen to date in the 2 years he was there. He had an exceptional sophomore class (that won their third title in a row last season) the year he won the title to complement talented Junior and Senior classes.

Also, I love how LaSalle is referred to as a "perennial doormat" prior to the recent run of success. A "Doormat" to league members Elder, Moeller and St. Xavier - teams most other schools don't even want to schedule. LaSalle's non-league record has always been strong, even in the "Doormat" years.

Moore got lucky and came to LaSalle at the right time. He and the wife got lucky a second time when you morons showed at his door with a big bag of money after he won the title.

Let's see if he gets lucky a third time when you guys decide to can him.

[Egret]

Originally Posted by Extra Point

Don't give Moore too much credit for LaSalle's success. They had the best talent the school has seen to date in the 2 years he was there. He had an exceptional sophomore class (that won their third title in a row last season) the year he won the title to complement talented Junior and Senior classes.

Also, I love how LaSalle is referred to as a "perennial doormat" prior to the recent run of success. A "Doormat" to league members Elder, Moeller and St. Xavier - teams most other schools don't even want to schedule. LaSalle's non-league record has always been strong, even in the "Doormat" years.

Moore got lucky and came to LaSalle at the right time. He and the wife got lucky a second time when you morons showed at his door with a big bag of money after he won the title.

Let's see if he gets lucky a third time when you guys decide to can him.

I think those of us that had nothing to do with hiring him have been saying the same thing. As much as this pains me I have to say that this post is spot on.

[GO DEEP]

Originally Posted by Cali_Eagle

I also recognize it's not 1965 anymore and I think at least some in the Tiger fan base should recognize that and adapt to some new realities.

Some do, I'm sure you realize this is a small sample size on this site.

[23xTigers]

Originally Posted by Extra Point

Don't give Moore too much credit for LaSalle's success. They had the best talent the school has seen to date in the 2 years he was there. He had an exceptional sophomore class (that won their third title in a row last season) the year he won the title to complement talented Junior and Senior classes.

Also, I love how LaSalle is referred to as a "perennial doormat" prior to the recent run of success. A "Doormat" to league members Elder, Moeller and St. Xavier - teams most other schools don't even want to schedule. LaSalle's non-league record has always been strong, even in the "Doormat" years.

Moore got lucky and came to LaSalle at the right time. He and the wife got lucky a second time when you morons showed at his door with a big bag of money after he won the title.

Let's see if he gets lucky a third time when you guys decide to can him.

Moore was sought after by the famous "search committee". He was the proverbial "shiny new car" in Ohio high school football,but as Massillon is finding out he looks to be more shine than substance.

Extra, I respect what LaSalle has been able to accomplish the past couple of years, I really do. Especially how competitive they have been against the big boys of the GCLS and Colerain as of late, but when you were the doormat, beating Taft,Xenia,Butler, and Northmont ain't real impressive. LaSalle has come along way, just enjoy the run.

[Cali_Eagle]

Originally Posted by GO DEEP

Some do, I'm sure you realize this is a small sample size on this site.

Yes you are correct. I may have over stated the case &/or been overly influenced by debates (& shots) about it I have seen on Yappi in the past, (many times, but fewer lately now that a lot of former Tiger posters seem to have exited Yappi.)

Best of luck to this years edition of the Tigers.

[Purple Hayes]

Originally Posted by Egret

When was the last time you were there? It's still a good place to drink but do NOT eat there. My daughter got sick a couple of weeks ago. Great freaking location though. You guys need to ping me when you get down here. Regardless of Digit's assessment of me being over the hill I'm fun. A LOT of fun.

Will do! I did not eat there, just liquid diet, LOL. Was there in late March and last September. Love it down there...

[clarkgriswold]

Originally Posted by Egret

When was the last time you were there? It's still a good place to drink but do NOT eat there. My daughter got sick a couple of weeks ago. Great freaking location though. You guys need to ping me when you get down here. Regardless of Digit's assessment of me being over the hill I'm fun. A LOT of fun.

Sorry, but we all base our perceptions if people in Digits' personal assessments.

[23xTigers]

Originally Posted by MassillonMike

Nice to see some normal chatter on here instead of the usual. Keep it up fellas! If I remember correctly, was there a kid named Soto that saw some playing time last year on the OL? I believe he was only a junior.

Yes, he will be back for us again upfront along the oline. Soto is a strong kid, should be a bright spot upfront this year.

[23xTigers]

Originally Posted by Egret

So take away the "handful of guys" that got offered DI scholarships and tell me what you had. Also, these DI guys were shamed time after time during the season and certainly in the Dublin game. You are making no sense my man.

Cant believe I didn't see this post earlier.Aside, from the DI talent you had more than enough to win with. First, you had an experienced Sr.Qb, who could make plays for you, not overwhelmingly talented, but good enough to win with. A tremendous deep threat in Jasinski and under utilized talent in Kutscher and Clarke. Simpson at Lb stepped up and is going to be a tremendous talent, if he was a bit bigger you could add him to the list of guys getting offered scholarships. In the backfield you had Ford, he was a bit under sized, but a good athlete.

Listen, the bottom line is last years team had enough talent to win and should have been playing LaSalle in the DII State Title game. We should have been able to walk to the Regional Finals last year by just handing the ball off to Thomas running behind that huge and talented Oline. We didn't and it wasn't for a lack of talent. We were let down by this coaching staff, that failure to have the team prepared rest solely on the head coach. So that leaves some unanswered questions, that we'll get answered soon enough?

[mtigers96]

Soto will be back as well as McGuire,
Look for Sophmore guard Cole Jones to be in the mix, good sized kid and has a mean streak.

Also the Morgan kid will be a beast at WR 6"6 and athletic.

On D Thomas will be the anchor along with many returning starters from last year.

[clarkgriswold]

Originally Posted by 23xTigers

Cant believe I didn't see this post earlier.Aside, from the DI talent you had more than enough to win with. First, you had an experienced Sr.Qb, who could make plays for you, not overwhelmingly talented, but good enough to win with. A tremendous deep threat in Jasinski and under utilized talent in Kutscher and Clarke. Simpson at Lb stepped up and is going to be a tremendous talent, if he was a bit bigger you could add him to the list of guys getting offered scholarships. In the backfield you had Ford, he was a bit under sized, but a good athlete.

Listen, the bottom line is last years team had enough talent to win and should have been playing LaSalle in the DII State Title game. We should have been able to walk to the Regional Finals last year by just handing the ball off to Thomas running behind that huge and talented Oline. We didn't and it wasn't for a lack of talent. We were let down by this coaching staff, that failure to have the team prepared rest solely on the head coach. So that leaves some unanswered questions, that we'll get answered soon enough?

Hmmmm. I did not see state finals level team level talent on that team last year. I saw pretty much what they ended up being, 8-2 in the regular season. Certainly, as a strong Tigers fan, you saw far more of them than me, however, I saw a smattering of really nice talent mixed in with a lot of average talent.

[23xTigers]

Originally Posted by mtigers96

Soto will be back as well as McGuire,
Look for Sophmore guard Cole Jones to be in the mix, good sized kid and has a mean streak.

Also the Morgan kid will be a beast at WR 6"6 and athletic.

On D Thomas will be the anchor along with many returning starters from last year.

What about the Berry kid? He has been added to the roster. Not much size but a good athlete and fast, slot receiver type or Db? Are they looking to keep Thomas on Defense this year?

[TigerPaw]

Originally Posted by clarkgriswold

Hmmmm. I did not see state finals level team level talent on that team last year. I saw pretty much what they ended up being, 8-2 in the regular season. Certainly, as a strong Tigers fan, you saw far more of them than me, however, I saw a smattering of really nice talent mixed in with a lot of average talent.

I've seen them all. You are correct. In the past 40 years I'd rank that team somewhere in the top 30, lol.

Offensively not bad. Though QB was undersized and zero run threat. Defensively yikes. Very slow. 130# db's. 2 soph LB's (who will get better). Have ALOT of work to do on that side.

[SW FB Fan]

Originally Posted by 23xTigers

Moore was sought after by the famous "search committee". He was the proverbial "shiny new car" in Ohio high school football,but as Massillon is finding out he looks to be more shine than substance.

Extra, I respect what LaSalle has been able to accomplish the past couple of years, I really do. Especially how competitive they have been against the big boys of the GCLS and Colerain as of late, but when you were the doormat, beating Taft,Xenia,Butler, and Northmont ain't real impressive. LaSalle has come along way, just enjoy the run.

Northmont beat LaSalle the last two times they played
( with the great Ben Martin for LaSalle ). One was a 42-7 beatdown.

[Crimson and Black]

I think the problem in Tigertown is that the last few coaches did not lean on and dig out the TRADITION of the program. Since it has been so long since the Tigers have won a title and been just a little above average since then, the tradition and mystique have taken a hit. When those boys take the field on Friday night have they been constantly reminded what it means to play football for the Massillon Tigers. Massillon used to win games before kickoff.... they intimidated teams with their performances and had that "unbeatable" swagger about them. The fans were part of the mystique and was a huge factor in their success. I honestly do not think the tradition angle has been used properly if at all. Are those kids going to give 110% to add to the tradition of Tiger football. The tradition and mystique are gone. Some very average programs have been beating Massillon lately. If you let a great tradition get away from you, getting it back will be harder than it was to build it. They had a dynasty in the 50's 60's and 70's.... all great dynasties of the world have all fallen. Massillon football is in the pack of teams that will go into each season hoping the talent that year is enough to take home a title. They will have to field the best team they have had in 40 years to win that title. Just like 600 other schools in Ohio. They no longer bring to a game where the other team is doubting they can win. It's been 40 years folks, the kids that are playing against Massillon now, know nothing about those years and 22 state championships. They know the have a nice stadium, but don't know about the Denny Franklins and Tommy hannon or Mike Mauger or Bill Harmon and Willie Spencer and I could go on and on and on....and that's just the guys that kept the tradition alive in the 70's. Still got heros from 1930 on. ..they let the tradition edge go by the wayside and that is a devastating thing to a proud program.

[fallsdog]

McGuire and Ashcraft. About the last time I "knew about" Massillon. And I like to think I know akron/canton football.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Crimson and Black]

Fallsdog..... what year was McQuire and Ashcraft? Seems not so long ago

[owencountykentucky]

1991.

[TigerPaw]

C&B, pretty much all the old AAC powers (steel towns) are all shells of what they once were. Obviously Niles, Alliance etc including chief rivals WGH & McKinley. Massillon is no different. Sad but reality. We had our era, and a long one. But it aint coming back. Of course they could/should be more successful in D2 but it has definitely been a rocky 3 years.

That said Steubenville, the recent off-the-field controversies aside, does serve as an exception, or model of sorts. You could say their "tradition" has carried them through, thanks in large part to a long-tenured great coach with hometown ties (somewhat unique situation, to their credit) but also in large part to a precipitous drop to D4. Not to discredit their accomplishments in any way, or imply Massillon could match that level of success. Nobody wants that kind of erosion in enrollment or demographics. But BigRed has certainly found a home there and the last 10 years or so especially have been remarkable, by any standard, with no sign of letting up.

[23xTigers]

Originally Posted by Crimson and Black

I think the problem in Tigertown is that the last few coaches did not lean on and dig out the TRADITION of the program. Since it has been so long since the Tigers have won a title and been just a little above average since then, the tradition and mystique have taken a hit. When those boys take the field on Friday night have they been constantly reminded what it means to play football for the Massillon Tigers. Massillon used to win games before kickoff.... they intimidated teams with their performances and had that "unbeatable" swagger about them. The fans were part of the mystique and was a huge factor in their success. I honestly do not think the tradition angle has been used properly if at all. Are those kids going to give 110% to add to the tradition of Tiger football. The tradition and mystique are gone. Some very average programs have been beating Massillon lately. If you let a great tradition get away from you, getting it back will be harder than it was to build it. They had a dynasty in the 50's 60's and 70's.... all great dynasties of the world have all fallen. Massillon football is in the pack of teams that will go into each season hoping the talent that year is enough to take home a title. They will have to field the best team they have had in 40 years to win that title. Just like 600 other schools in Ohio. They no longer bring to a game where the other team is doubting they can win. It's been 40 years folks, the kids that are playing against Massillon now, know nothing about those years and 22 state championships. They know the have a nice stadium, but don't know about the Denny Franklins and Tommy hannon or Mike Mauger or Bill Harmon and Willie Spencer and I could go on and on and on....and that's just the guys that kept the tradition alive in the 70's. Still got heros from 1930 on. ..they let the tradition edge go by the wayside and that is a devastating thing to a proud program.

Crimson, I agree with what you are saying in principle. That foundation of tradition will never die, it may fade,but it will always be there waiting for the right person to restore it. Everything starts at the top, that's what sets the tone. Having a search committee select a man to lead the program that didn't even apply for the position is a problem in and of itself. How can he be fully invested? If he's not fully invested then the team as a whole can't be fully invested. We need to get back to the basics, we don't need to reinvent the wheel or find the next guru.

We need a coach that is passionate about coaching at Massillon and being a Massillon Tiger and he must be a program builder. People talk about unrealistic expectations at Massillon, what is unrealistic is believing you need scholarship athletes at every position in order to compete and win at a high level. You need some depth and you need to hammer the fundamentals and everything else will fall into place. Tradition is there, it's just not putting on a Massillon T-shirt or Jersey, it's within you driving you to make the necessary sacrifices in order to be great, but for so many it only goes as far as putting on the Massillon swag.

[PaddyWhack]

Originally Posted by 23xTigers

We need a coach that is passionate about coaching at Massillon and being a Massillon Tiger and he must be a program builder. People talk about unrealistic expectations at Massillon, what is unrealistic is believing you need scholarship athletes at every position in order to compete and win at a high level. You need some depth and you need to hammer the fundamentals and everything else will fall into place. Tradition is there, it's just not putting on a Massillon T-shirt or Jersey, it's within you driving you to make the necessary sacrifices in order to be great, but for so many it only goes as far as putting on the Massillon swag.

Massillon had their opportunity to hire a Massillon man and blew it. They WILL hire a Massillon native as their next new coach, take it to the bank! However, they will blow it again and hire the WRONG Massillon man!! 😣

[TigerPaw]

The last 2 posts say it all. Except not as intended. No offense guys, and there are grains of truth in some of the points, but overall our BIGGEST problem has been unrealistic expectations by a very fickle and disloyal fan base. We change coaches like the phucking Browns. I have been a fan for a long time and am basically numb to it but it's the same sh++ every year. No coach or exceedingly few could possibly thrive in that environment. I don't care if it is Chuck Kyle or BJ Payne. That ain't on the Booster Club, Adm, the BOE, President Trump or whatever BS you want to blame. It's us. We suck.

Moore is a good coach. Period. To varying degrees, ditto Hall before him, Stacy before him, Shepas before him, Rose before him, Owens etc etc etc. As good or good enough for most schools in Ohio. Our problem is we need Paul Brown to rise from the dead, and convince Bill Belichick to leave New England. Assuming they can handle the criticism, lol.

[23xTigers]

Originally Posted by TigerPaw

The last 2 posts say it all. Except not as intended. No offense guys, and there are grains of truth in some of the points, but overall our BIGGEST problem has been unrealistic expectations by a very fickle and disloyal fan base. We change coaches like the phucking Browns. I have been a fan for a long time and am basically numb to it but it's the same sh++ every year. No coach or exceedingly few could possibly thrive in that environment. I don't care if it is Chuck Kyle or BJ Payne. That ain't on the Booster Club, Adm, the BOE, President Trump or whatever BS you want to blame. It's us. We suck.

Moore is a good coach. Period. To varying degrees, ditto Hall before him, Stacy before him, Shepas before him, Rose before him, Owens etc etc etc. As good or good enough for most schools in Ohio. Our problem is we need Paul Brown to rise from the dead, and convince Bill Belichick to leave New England. Assuming they can handle the criticism, lol.

What should the expectations be at this storied high school football program? On the flip side of your excuses to justify the coaching, the expectations for talent level is we need the majority of kids to be D1 scholarship athletes in order to be successful? That's very unrealistic.
Tiger,the problem is in the process and the process is dictated by the Booster Club. Now, I am sure you are a card carrying member and probably the guy behind Tiger Paw productions? So I expect you to be a staunch supporter of the Club, but this program is really being held back by the club. Instead of running the program in all facets, the club needs to get back to just supporting the program. Tell me who was the last coach that actually applied for the position? The problem is in the process. Period!

[TigerPaw]

I moved to a different part of the state and have not been a member for 20+ years. And never was beyond a $5 donation and some stupid pin. I am a secret member of the deep state though. Ask the debate board.

So get rid of the BC. All schools should in every sport. Brilliant idea. Problem is those members remain as fans - which is MY point. Why don't YOU join and bring the positive energy up? Volunteer to do something. Mentor. I thought so.

We don't get the Who's Who of coaches anymore because the job sucks. And here's a hint - it aint because of the BC. I would gladly take Payne, some ex-player, or whoever YOU want in exchange for 2 seasons of positive keep your mouth shut support from our "fans." That would be refreshing to me. Won't happen.

[clarkgriswold]

Recognition of, and adherence to, any tradition gets tougher with every year that passes without meeting expectations. Also, in this day and age, a teenage boy is unlikely to give a damn about the legacy of Paul Brown.

It seems Massillon suffers from the principle of "too many cooks spoil the broth." Too many people, especially some influential boosters, thinking they have or actually having a role in the process. Hire a damn coach and get out of the way rather than persistently and chronically question his every move.

[Crimson and Black]

There is no doubt about that much of the Big Reds success is based on a drop in classification. Just like many of the hard times we had in the late 70's was because we were playing schools with at least double our enrollment week in and week out. But once we started competing in a situation where we belonged things began to fall into place. Don't forget in 87 and 88 we had back to back championship game appearances in D2. Right where the tigers sit right now.

I can tell you no matter division we are in, to have the success we have had has been as much fun as if we competed in D1. I'll also say this.... getting Massillon back on the schedule for those recent games did nothing but help our program. When you embrace tradition like Big Red does you remember all the years that Massillon took us to the woodshed AND ruined to state championship years. Trust me, the kids playing for Big Red in those games did know the history and did know of the Massillon mystique. It gave them incentive to get some redemption for the previous history between the schools. They ate it up and win or lose there was something more than normal our kids were giving..... and I'm not talking about game night only.... I'm talking about practice and a sort of OSU-Michigan thing where everyday you something to beat the freaking guys who have stained Big Red football years before. I can tell you The Big Red nation would love to see the Tigers start to win titles again. RRR and GO TIGERS.

[jackson03]

Originally Posted by clarkgriswold

Recognition of, and adherence to, any tradition gets tougher with every year that passes without meeting expectations. Also, in this day and age, a teenage boy is unlikely to give a damn about the legacy of Paul Brown.

Exactly. When there's too much focus on a long-ago tradition and there exists a present lack of results, the players are likely to (rightly) become cynical. What truly matters is that they are fully on board with a coherent strategy to produce wins, they like their coach and give him respect, and that the program is equitable and fair. Geriatrics who can barely walk for a down much less sprint for one have no place upending the whole system because they think they're tinkering with an SEC team. I have to imagine continuity with Stacy or Hall would have added at least a regional final or two to Massillon's playoff results in the past couple years. If the kids like Moore and there's progress this year, by all means just let what happens happen and enjoy the game.