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  #151  
Old 09-16-18, 08:10 PM
DonMagicRon DonMagicRon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoser View Post
Uh I would agree that most of the GMC and one third of the SWOC have the same issues.I disagree about the ECC. It is the ultimate yuppie league of rich white kids, plus Withrow and Walnut Hills.
And Walnut Hills, the top school in the ECC is 45% minority.
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  #152  
Old 09-16-18, 08:10 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Obama, well half. Eric Holder, Cory Booker, Maxine Waters, Kathryn Harris, Jessie Jackson, you know, those that would lie to you for your vote to perpetuate their personal power with no intention of ever improving your position.


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Not saying I agree or disagree with anything you just said there, but what's that gotta do with WW getting in the GMC???

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  #153  
Old 09-16-18, 08:11 PM
Pull-to-Trap Pull-to-Trap is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
Not saying I agree or disagree with anything you just said there, but what's that gotta do with WW getting in the GMC???

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I was answering his question.


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  #154  
Old 09-16-18, 08:14 PM
hoser hoser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonMagicRon View Post
And Walnut Hills, the top school in the ECC is 45% minority.
Uh, if you mean academically, absolutely the best school in the league. Uh sports wise not so much.
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  #155  
Old 09-16-18, 08:15 PM
Pull-to-Trap Pull-to-Trap is offline
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Originally Posted by hoser View Post
Uh you forgot the clown in chief Donald the Liar Trump, who only lies when his lips move.


I keep hearing that but yet to hear the exact example of the lie. I’ll just go with the results and ignore the noise coming from those that would stage exaggerated disaster to try perpetuate the false narrative that is the left. Just pick the agenda of the month. Same game plan. Pure Allinsky.


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  #156  
Old 09-16-18, 08:17 PM
Pull-to-Trap Pull-to-Trap is offline
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Originally Posted by Pull-to-Trap View Post
I was answering his question.


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Correction, your question


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  #157  
Old 09-16-18, 08:20 PM
DonMagicRon DonMagicRon is offline
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Originally Posted by hoser View Post
Uh, if you mean academically, absolutely the best school in the league. Uh sports wise not so much.
Walnut Hills is not bad in sports at all. They hold their own and probably the best in boys basketball. Just struggle in football.
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  #158  
Old 09-16-18, 08:22 PM
Pull-to-Trap Pull-to-Trap is offline
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Originally Posted by DonMagicRon View Post
Walnut Hills is not bad in sports at all. They hold their own and probably the best in boys basketball. Just struggle in football.


They have a senior girls golfer that is probably the best in the state unless she got recruited and transferred.


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  #159  
Old 09-16-18, 08:23 PM
Pull-to-Trap Pull-to-Trap is offline
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Originally Posted by Pull-to-Trap View Post
They have a senior girls golfer that is probably the best in the state unless she got recruited and transferred.


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Must be a country club school


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  #160  
Old 09-16-18, 08:26 PM
hoser hoser is offline
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Originally Posted by DonMagicRon View Post
Walnut Hills is not bad in sports at all. They hold their own and probably the best in boys basketball. Just struggle in football.
Uh year in and year out not true. They have had a couple of good years in BB , but are pretty much average in everything else. If your kid can get in Walnut Hills, you should be very proud, not easy to do.
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  #161  
Old 09-16-18, 08:37 PM
DonMagicRon DonMagicRon is offline
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I would bet money that Withrow is not the only ECC school that doesn't field teams in all sports.
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  #162  
Old 09-16-18, 09:44 PM
4GX 4GX is offline
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Originally Posted by DonMagicRon View Post
I dont blame the white community for the heroin epidemic, all I know is that urban and rural communities are getting overwhelmed by junkies that dont look like me. It's the most critical social economic crisis in the country at the moment. And he had the nerve to mention the "F" section of Forest Park. 7 small streets. People are dying on the west side of Cincinnati and the counties outside of Hamilton county at a frightening rate. The Winton Woods school district has the same issues as the vast majority of tax, funded public schools. Every negative argument that can be made about Winton Woods can be said about some of the members of the GMC, ECC and SWOC. I think that fact is where the whole argument ends.
I "had the nerve to mention the "F" section-- because it's where I GREW UP-- and where I learned to play every sport in which I ever participated, until HS-- at the former Fresno Fields (now Kanter Park)...
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  #163  
Old 09-17-18, 09:33 AM
deuces dad deuces dad is offline
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Originally Posted by hoser View Post
Uh, if you mean academically, absolutely the best school in the league. Uh sports wise not so much.
Walnut is clearly the best academic school in the ECC,as well as the best Boys Basketball, Girls Basketball and Academic team
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  #164  
Old 09-17-18, 10:04 AM
redskin17 redskin17 is offline
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Walnut is tied with Anderson with 2 girls basketball titles. As for boy's basketball, the have 3 titles and Kings has 2. They are a great fit and competitive all around. West Clermont combing has helped them have all the sports that the ECC sponsors, minus Lacrosse. Withrow, is missing 10 of 24 sports offered, not sure how much longer they stay around, would benefit them to look to the CMAC, sadly I thought them being in the ECC would help.

As for this thread, few observations.

1- This issue has been brought up some many times in the past. Winton Woods should be somewhere, the SWOC would be the best fit, but looks like the SWOC will be done soon, hopefully for Winton Woods sake they can find a home. Like many have said it's not all about football, though some will have you wanting to believe that. It's about the total program, and Winton Woods nonfootball sports need a home a lot more than their football program.

2- Looks like DMR is not a man of his word, after all he retired from Yappi last year.
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  #165  
Old 09-17-18, 10:54 AM
DonMagicRon DonMagicRon is offline
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Ok, ok. I'll go away.
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  #166  
Old 09-17-18, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redskin17 View Post
Walnut is tied with Anderson with 2 girls basketball titles. As for boy's basketball, the have 3 titles and Kings has 2. They are a great fit and competitive all around. West Clermont combing has helped them have all the sports that the ECC sponsors, minus Lacrosse. Withrow, is missing 10 of 24 sports offered, not sure how much longer they stay around, would benefit them to look to the CMAC, sadly I thought them being in the ECC would help.

As for this thread, few observations.

1- This issue has been brought up some many times in the past. Winton Woods should be somewhere, the SWOC would be the best fit, but looks like the SWOC will be done soon, hopefully for Winton Woods sake they can find a home. Like many have said it's not all about football, though some will have you wanting to believe that. It's about the total program, and Winton Woods nonfootball sports need a home a lot more than their football program.

2- Looks like DMR is not a man of his word, after all he retired from Yappi last year.

Is there some reason you want DMR to leave? He is one of the more knowledgeable posters on this site and we have a shortage of them as it is.
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  #167  
Old 09-17-18, 11:14 AM
WWWarrior WWWarrior is offline
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Redskin17,

I'm not sure that I agree with you that the SWOC is the best fit. Clearly leagues are formed primarily over competition level at major sport category (football, soccer, basketball). This business of "total program" is nothing but code speak and has been from the beginning of the ECC. In fact, I probably have the video of the former Loveland AD going on and on about how the league was formed on common academic standards and common goals. Again, "code speak".

It was very obvious from the beginning that Kings and Turpin have been and continue to be dead set against having Winton Woods be part of the ECC. Even in the days of the FAVC, Kings in particular, avoided WW like the plague. Look it up. Why? Anderson, Glen Este, Amelia, Loveland never avoided Winton Woods. And I'm sorry, its not because of baseball, tennis, or girls rowing teams. it's clearly about football, basketball and soccer. It's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

What has been a benefit of being independent is in those sports (particularly football), to be the best you have to play the best. Kings and Turpin usually find that out early in the tourney. Winton Woods brings something to the ECC. Back in the day, Anderson and Loveland understood that fact. ECC is where the good DII teams are and what our WW kids are missing is recognition that league play provides. Sure playing GCL teams and Columbus Catholic schools help in the rankings. But I really never saw what you suggested about Withrow but I do see greater participation in nonfootball sports for WW if they were in a league such as the ECC. That is where WW deserves to be, not the SWOC.

GMC is a non-starter D1 league and they have made a point of that each time they have been approached.
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  #168  
Old 09-17-18, 11:17 AM
Pull-to-Trap Pull-to-Trap is offline
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WW should be in the ECC and take Harrison with them when the SWOC folds.
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  #169  
Old 09-17-18, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by 4GX View Post
As someone who knows the "F-Section" of Forest Park only too well, and went to Greenhills-Forest Park Schools for many years (Uh, yes, Forest Park DID play Colerain MANY TIMES--in the old Hamilton County Suburban League- American Division), there are a lot of misinformed FP people on this forum and elsewhere who just don't get what high quality schools are about-- and a bunch of people (from other schools, too) on this forum who just don't understand school finances...

1) No one wants WW in their conference, NOT because WW will "kick their butt" in the only two sports that WW gives a rat's arse about (football and boys basketball)-- that hardly matters to the people who run these other school districts (e.g.- the principals, ADs, and superintendents)-- it's what LOTR10 said-- they want to deliver a high quality extracurricular experience to ALL of their students in their district-- and that includes VASTLY more than just a bunch of football (and a few basketball) bigots in their districts-- in a district like Lakota, Sycamore, or Mason, there are FAAAAAAAR more kids (and thus parents) interested in what the band, the chess team, the Model UN, the Mock Trial team, the Quiz Bowl team, the school theater program, the swim, tennis, cross country, wrestling, golf, and baseball teams are doing, than care about the silly football team-- and it just gets harder to do that in any consistent way, when other schools in the conference fail to even field teams against which to compete in many of these activities-- or when they do bother, the teams are virtually non-competitive (and, yes, WW is not that far below Middletown and Colerain in some of these areas, but WW IS worse than them-- do NOT doubt that for a minute-- plus those schools are ALREADY IN the GMC-- they don't have to be voted in-- they would have to be voted OUT-- and that takes much more, to overcome inertia)...but at WW, people like DonMagicRon can't even begin to fathom why any of that stuff matters-- he (and MOST Forest Park-based fans of WW) think that the sun rises and sets on what the school's ridiculous semi-pro HS football team does.

2) All of the above discussion does not even touch on the OTHER HUGE FALLACY in this forum (and to be clear, also in big-time college athletics too-- and this includes even major athletic programs at places like Ohio State)-- at the HS level, athletics are NOT money-raisers--they are not even break-even endeavors-- every single high school's athletic program-- from Massillon to St. Ignatius to St. X to Colerain to Dublin Coffman to name-your-school-- is a massive sinkhole of funds...High school sports are operated to give kids interesting extracurricular activities that (allegedly, following the original Greek gymnasium ethos of "sound mind, sound body") are designed to help develop the whole man (and now, woman)-- to more fully educate and develop the student-- NOT to make money. There is not a single athletic program in this state that can claim that it is fully funded without support from its school district's (or private school's) general revenue funds-- they ALL need subsidization from the rest of the school's budget-- so STOP thinking that ANY of these decisions are based on the puny, piddly-arse amount of money that schools bring in at the gate-- from alleged "revenue" sports, or the even punier amounts that they bring in on the (clearly) non-revenue sports.

P.S.-- Those of you who think that school athletic revenues matter, in the larger scheme of things, need to get a grip-- first and foremost on the ACTUAL size of the budgets of schools-- both HS and college-- the entire sum of money that St. X or Elder (which have some of the larger followings amongst private schools) or Mason or Fairfield (which SHOULD have some of the larger followings amongst public schools) bring in from ALL of their ENTIRE school year's athletic events would NOT pay to outfit the football team-- for any of these schools, let alone "MAKE" any money... and those who think colleges make decisions (e.g.- keeping or firing Urban Meyer) based on athletic revenues are equally deluded-- go take a look at the size of the entire budget that the Ohio State President manages annually-- including the Medical School complex, it surpasses $10 Billion -- while the entire OSU athletic department's revenues (most of which are both generated by and spent on football) does not surpass $200 Million-- the friggin' football team's "PROFIT" (I can't use that word derisively enough in this context), after deducting the expense of running the football program, DOES NOT AMOUNT TO EVEN A ROUNDING ERROR ON THE OSU PRESIDENT'S OVERALL ANNUAL BUDGET! OSU might have $10-20 Million left over, from football revenues, after paying its football expenses-- you think the OSU President CAN'T FIND ANOTHER WAY TO COVER $10 Million-- in a $10 Billion+ budget!?!-- That's less than 0.001 (or 0.1%) of his total budget!!!
So as a member of the Winton Woods community I should just except the hand that is dealt and not want more for Winton Woods Athletics? I agree there are some short comings at Winton Woods but the Athletic Dept are trying to address those issues by improving the status of some "Country Club" sports. As a former member of the community I find it troubling that you've turned our back on the very people who helped nurture you during your formative years, I feel like you accented the negative aspects of our community, also whats the big deal about being aware of the F section? As I dissect your paragraphs I surmise you are a Greenhills guy who never was supportive of the merger between the 2 disticts and did not attend Winton Woods/Forest Park.
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  #170  
Old 09-17-18, 12:25 PM
redskin17 redskin17 is offline
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Is there some reason you want DMR to leave? He is one of the more knowledgeable posters on this site and we have a shortage of them as it is.
he said it not me.
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  #171  
Old 09-17-18, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mrsimp06 View Post
So as a member of the Winton Woods community I should just except the hand that is dealt and not want more for Winton Woods Athletics? I agree there are some short comings at Winton Woods but the Athletic Dept are trying to address those issues by improving the status of some "Country Club" sports. As a former member of the community I find it troubling that you've turned our back on the very people who helped nurture you during your formative years, I feel like you accented the negative aspects of our community, also whats the big deal about being aware of the F section? As I dissect your paragraphs I surmise you are a Greenhills guy who never was supportive of the merger between the 2 disticts and did not attend Winton Woods/Forest Park.
He is NOT a Greenhills guy.
F section guys always went to Forest Park.
H section got bused to Greenhills HS in those days.

You are wasting your time.
He is a St X guy that lived in FP as a kid.
Repackages what others have said a thousand times on here in gigantic posts but no new insight.
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  #172  
Old 09-17-18, 12:43 PM
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This thread is silly when you go back and read thru it.

The long list of thread killers who seem to always emerge on WW threads is spooky.

You know who you are!
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  #173  
Old 09-17-18, 12:56 PM
Over The Hills Over The Hills is offline
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Originally Posted by mrsimp06 View Post
I surmise you are a Greenhills guy who never was supportive of the merger between the 2 disticts and did not attend Winton Woods/Forest Park.
Oh almost forgot.....eventhough the guy you are referring to here is not a Greenhills guy, there were LOTS of bitter Greenhills people when the merger happened.

Forest Park HS was a newer school....formed in 1968 maybe?
Greenhills HS was around since 1938 I think.

So...MANY Village of Greenhills families had very deep roots in the community going back over 50 years where their grandparents/parents had graduated from GHS etc.
Thus they naturally were upset when GHS closed.

At Forest Park HS not so much do to most of those kids parents moved there and themselves didn't go to FPHS...not as much of an emotional attachment.

If you are old like me and remember......the students from both schools came together immediately and all was well....for the most part lol.
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  #174  
Old 09-17-18, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Over The Hills View Post
This thread is silly when you go back and read thru it.

The long list of thread killers who seem to always emerge on WW threads is spooky.

You know who you are!

It definitely appears that there are a lot of adults that are not acting in the best interest of the kids. It shouldn't be Winton Woods against the world. These are just high school kids that are being deprived of an experience that every other school in the area has, a conference affiliation.
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  #175  
Old 09-17-18, 12:57 PM
redskin17 redskin17 is offline
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Originally Posted by WWWarrior View Post
Redskin17,

I'm not sure that I agree with you that the SWOC is the best fit. Clearly leagues are formed primarily over competition level at major sport category (football, soccer, basketball). This business of "total program" is nothing but code speak and has been from the beginning of the ECC. In fact, I probably have the video of the former Loveland AD going on and on about how the league was formed on common academic standards and common goals. Again, "code speak".

It was very obvious from the beginning that Kings and Turpin have been and continue to be dead set against having Winton Woods be part of the ECC. Even in the days of the FAVC, Kings in particular, avoided WW like the plague. Look it up. Why? Anderson, Glen Este, Amelia, Loveland never avoided Winton Woods. And I'm sorry, its not because of baseball, tennis, or girls rowing teams. it's clearly about football, basketball and soccer. It's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

What has been a benefit of being independent is in those sports (particularly football), to be the best you have to play the best. Kings and Turpin usually find that out early in the tourney. Winton Woods brings something to the ECC. Back in the day, Anderson and Loveland understood that fact. ECC is where the good DII teams are and what our WW kids are missing is recognition that league play provides. Sure playing GCL teams and Columbus Catholic schools help in the rankings. But I really never saw what you suggested about Withrow but I do see greater participation in nonfootball sports for WW if they were in a league such as the ECC. That is where WW deserves to be, not the SWOC.

GMC is a non-starter D1 league and they have made a point of that each time they have been approached.
Many years ago, before Braddix, Withrow had all their sports headed in the right direction. I figured with Open Enrollment and being a better conference, they would draw more athletes from around the city. Poor coaching hires and the general missteps of the district when it came to ADs really hurt them.

The mission of the ECC when they started out was this "code speak". Sadly for Winton Woods, their former Super killed their chances when this all first came to be. Moving forward, don't know what will happen, I still think you will see Little Miami move into the ECC at some point, and maybe Lebanon. Harrison could be an interesting one as well, they have a long history with many of the ECC schools.

One thing to remember, most of the ECC schools have a long history together, dating back before Winton Woods was a school. That history means a lot.

My point about the SWOC is, where else would Winton Woods have gone these past few years? ECC wasn't calling, GMC isn't calling, the CMAC did, which would have been a stop gap, but being Indy is a lot better.
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  #176  
Old 09-17-18, 04:13 PM
Southwest Guy Southwest Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by gocards View Post
It definitely appears that there are a lot of adults that are not acting in the best interest of the kids. It shouldn't be Winton Woods against the world. These are just high school kids that are being deprived of an experience that every other school in the area has, a conference affiliation.
Just read the comments on here and you'll understand why. You have an Edgewood person fanning the flames when they go head to head year in and year out in the bottom tier with Northwest for the All Sports Trophy. Thinking WW cannot compete with this is moronic.

Bottom line all this nonsense about well rounded programs sounds great but you can look at the numbers, demographics, manufacturing base and the resources and pick the winner of the all sports trophy. No need to leave the house or watch a game or match.

The pseudo intellectuals on here disparaging students, communities, crowds,
race etc..... disguised as coherent thought are comical.

No matter how you break anything down 99.9 % of the time Mason is going to win the GMC and St. X is always going to win the GCL in the all sports trophy. Fairfield and Princeton both have significant advantages when it comes to resources and manufacturing base. They aren't catching Mason though. Fairfield will be a tier above Colerain and Princeton and Colerain will compete in the bottom tier. Princeton should do more with what they have.
There are clearly defined tiers in all leagues that will never change. There may be outliers in certain sports programs or individuals but on an annual basis certain schools will never catch up.

Last edited by Southwest Guy; 09-17-18 at 04:24 PM.
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  #177  
Old 09-17-18, 04:22 PM
Pull-to-Trap Pull-to-Trap is offline
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Originally Posted by Southwest Guy View Post
Just read the comments on here and you'll understand why. You have an Edgewood person fanning the flames when ] they go head to head year in and year out in the bottom tier with Northwest for the All Sports Trophy. Thinking WW cannot compete with this is moronic.

Bottom line all this nonsense about well rounded programs sounds great but you can look at the numbers, demographics, manufacturing base and the resources and pick the winner of the all sports trophy. No need to leave the house or watch a game or match.

The pseudo intellectuals on here disparaging students, communities, crowds,
race etc..... disguised as coherent thought are comical.

No matter how you break anything down 99.9 % of the time Mason is going to win the GMC and St. X is always going to win the GCL in the all sports trophy. Fairfield and Princeton both have significant advantages when it comes to resources and manufacturing base. They aren't catching Mason though.
There are clearly defined tiers in all leagues that will never change. There may be outliers in certain sports programs but on an annual basis some will never catch up.


Basically not true and or incoherent. What are you saying? Manufacturing base? Huh?
Edgewood actually doesn’t compete with NW “head to head year in and year out” because neither school fields good enough “country club” teams to compete. Check your facts. The teams exist and ease the scheduling burden but are not consistently competitive.

No one was “disparaging” anyone. What is your point even?


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  #178  
Old 09-17-18, 04:31 PM
Southwest Guy Southwest Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by Pull-to-Trap View Post
Basically not true and or incoherent. What are you saying? Manufacturing base? Huh?
Edgewood actually doesn’t compete with NW “head to head year in and year out” because neither school fields good enough “country club” teams to compete. Check your facts. The teams exist and ease the scheduling burden but are not consistently competitive.

No one was “disparaging” anyone. What is your point even?


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Yes indeed.

Again directed at one person from Edgewood who continues to disparage specific programs like a broken record. The facts are Edgewood and Northwest will finish neck and neck on the lower tier of the all sports trophy. Both will never win something like that. Why hold WW to a standard half the league won't meat ? Point is there will always be separation. More resources will always produce better results.
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  #179  
Old 09-17-18, 04:47 PM
hoser hoser is offline
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Yes indeed.

Again directed at one person from Edgewood who continues to disparage specific programs like a broken record. The facts are Edgewood and Northwest will finish neck and neck on the lower tier of the all sports trophy. Both will never win something like that. Why hold WW to a standard half the league won't meat ? Point is there will always be separation. More resources will always produce better results.
Uh, what? Dude how much caffeine have you had today? Uh Meat? Really? Woods will never get into a D2 league because they recruit for football and basketball and they do it well.
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  #180  
Old 09-17-18, 07:03 PM
mrsimp06 mrsimp06 is offline
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mrsimp06 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoser View Post
Uh, what? Dude how much caffeine have you had today? Uh Meat? Really? Woods will never get into a D2 league because they recruit for football and basketball and they do it well.
You continue to push that false narrative that we recruit kids with no proof. That is foul.
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