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  #1801  
Old 07-11-19, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
I just don't understand some of these comments/criticisms.

First, someone says that Iglesias "shouldn't be the closer". Then, only 2 days later when questioned, says "If I'm in charge, I give him the next opportunity to close".

Next, someone talks today about the bullpen (including Iglesias) being "gassed". Then -- later in the SAME DAY -- says "I feel with Iglesias and some other relief pitchers it's simply they don't get enough work."

??????
The 2nd part is why I dont think he is a real poster.
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  #1802  
Old 07-12-19, 06:37 AM
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Turpin still trying to decide if 14red is real.
  #1803  
Old 07-12-19, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Turpin still trying to decide if 14red is real.
So am I.
  #1804  
Old 07-12-19, 10:54 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
I just don't understand some of these comments/criticisms.

First, someone says that Iglesias "shouldn't be the closer". Then, only 2 days later when questioned, says "If I'm in charge, I give him the next opportunity to close".

Next, someone talks today about the bullpen (including Iglesias) being "gassed". Then -- later in the SAME DAY -- says "I feel with Iglesias and some other relief pitchers it's simply they don't get enough work."

??????
Read everything Steve, don't cherry-pick phrases. My part is bolded above.

My first post I definitely said that a closer with 7 losses by July 1 should not be your closer.

My next post, a few days later, was much longer. It started with "Upon closer inspection of Raisel's stats..." I referenced lots of numbers (which look bad), and then referenced game-by-game logs, and mentioned his last 3 perfect outings, so I softened my opinion a little and said I'd give him the next close opportunity on a short leash.

Am I not allowed to change my mind once I consider all the facts?

And I assume you have an opinion on how to handle the bullpen? Mind sharing? Or would you rather just partially interpret other people's opinion?
  #1805  
Old 07-12-19, 11:06 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Dispelling two myths...

Reds - buyers or seller - neither. They are not going to give up Hunter Greene, Jonathan India or any bright prospects, that's the main asking price if you are buying. The Reds really don't have to sell either because they really don't have much to offer. A contending team may want Puig as an outfield bat (Indians), but other than that, our position players are not real attractive. I could see us getting some calls for Tanner Roark. He's likely not back next year and he's a good, solid #3/#4 type starter for a contender.

Reds - closer - don't have one. David Bell said from the onset he's not using a traditional closer, and he's pretty much held to that. He manages the bullpen as the game is going on and if he needs a righty out in the 7th inning, he'll bring in Iglesias. He's used Lorenzen to close. He uses Garrett vs. lefties.
  #1806  
Old 07-12-19, 12:41 PM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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You're not real.
  #1807  
Old 07-12-19, 09:00 PM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
Read everything Steve, don't cherry-pick phrases. My part is bolded above.

My first post I definitely said that a closer with 7 losses by July 1 should not be your closer.

My next post, a few days later, was much longer. It started with "Upon closer inspection of Raisel's stats..." I referenced lots of numbers (which look bad), and then referenced game-by-game logs, and mentioned his last 3 perfect outings, so I softened my opinion a little and said I'd give him the next close opportunity on a short leash.

Am I not allowed to change my mind once I consider all the facts?

And I assume you have an opinion on how to handle the bullpen? Mind sharing? Or would you rather just partially interpret other people's opinion?
wolves82, You are absolutely entitled to change your mind after a more complete examination of the facts. Thanks for answering my question. I certainly didn't intend to offend.
I agree with your point about having a short leash for Iglesias. To be fair, he has closed 16 out of 18 chances. His effectiveness has waned, though, when he's pitched in non-save situations. That is very concerning.
As far as handling the bullpen, I am satisfied with the way David Bell has managed things.
  #1808  
Old 07-13-19, 05:53 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Lost opportunity.

Not the way to start the second half.
  #1809  
Old 07-13-19, 07:33 AM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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When it comes to players slumping -- whether it's pitching or hitting -- I'm a pretty patient guy because every player experiences it from time to time. OK, here comes the BUT.
BUT, the Reds must figure out and fast what to do with David Hernandez. For 10 years, he has been a dependable reliever. He had an excellent 2018 season as well as 2017. However -- for whatever reason -- he is throwing batting practice. 5 of his last 6 outings have been abysmal.
Clearly there is something wrong here. After 10 years, a guy doesn't just lose it almost overnight. That said, the Reds must make a move here because he just can't stop giving up big runs.

And, to you, wolves82....he certainly would NOT have been my first choice out of the bullpen last night. I imagine that we agree on this one!

Last edited by Monclova Steve; 07-13-19 at 07:49 AM..
  #1810  
Old 07-13-19, 07:54 AM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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BTW, I didn't see the play, but how in the hell did Winker get picked off 3rd base (and with 2 OUTS!!)?
  #1811  
Old 07-13-19, 08:17 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
When it comes to players slumping -- whether it's pitching or hitting -- I'm a pretty patient guy because every player experiences it from time to time. OK, here comes the BUT.
BUT, the Reds must figure out and fast what to do with David Hernandez. For 10 years, he has been a dependable reliever. He had an excellent 2018 season as well as 2017. However -- for whatever reason -- he is throwing batting practice. 5 of his last 6 outings have been abysmal.
Clearly there is something wrong here. After 10 years, a guy doesn't just lose it almost overnight. That said, the Reds must make a move here because he just can't stop giving up big runs.

And, to you, wolves82....he certainly would NOT have been my first choice out of the bullpen last night. I imagine that we agree on this one!
We agree. 8th was the key inning, with Story / Dahl / Arenado scheduled to bat. Manager has to use his best guy in the pen for that situation. I am so sick of managers that always save their best for the 9th. It just isn't smart.
  #1812  
Old 07-13-19, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
BTW, I didn't see the play, but how in the hell did Winker get picked off 3rd base (and with 2 OUTS!!)?
Went in head first, had his hand on the bag ahead of the tag, and inexplicably his hand came off the bag...
  #1813  
Old 07-13-19, 08:42 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
We agree. 8th was the key inning, with Story / Dahl / Arenado scheduled to bat. Manager has to use his best guy in the pen for that situation. I am so sick of managers that always save their best for the 9th. It just isn't smart.
When Gray got thru the 7th with the lead I thought for sure we would see Lorenzen in the 8th and Iglesias in the 9th. I'm not really sure why Bell keeps going to Hernandez. He clearly is struggling.
  #1814  
Old 07-13-19, 08:43 AM
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Of course they are playing in Coors field and only managed 2 runs.... Offense still stinks.
  #1815  
Old 07-13-19, 09:45 AM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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Speaking of Hernandez.....Looking at his stats, he has made 41 appearances this year -- well beyond his usage rate for the last several seasons.

Perhaps he is going through one of those "dead arm" periods that pitchers suffer from from time to time (nothing structurally wrong, but the muscles are just tired). Perhaps wolves 82 with his experience with pitching can explain this better than I can.

Something MUST be wrong physically, cuz he has been a good reliever for many years with excellent results while with the Reds. His performance is a key for the success of this bullpen.

In my view, the Reds truly can't afford to have him on the mound until this issue is solved. His role is too important -- with last night serving as an example.
I'm not an expert here, but can they put him on the DL due to an unspecified "muscle soreness" issue? That would give him about 3 weeks off for the Reds to perhaps bring him back to where he was. I don't know if that would pass muster with the rules, but it's just an idea.
  #1816  
Old 07-14-19, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
Speaking of Hernandez.....Looking at his stats, he has made 41 appearances this year -- well beyond his usage rate for the last several seasons.

Perhaps he is going through one of those "dead arm" periods that pitchers suffer from from time to time (nothing structurally wrong, but the muscles are just tired). Perhaps wolves 82 with his experience with pitching can explain this better than I can.

Something MUST be wrong physically, cuz he has been a good reliever for many years with excellent results while with the Reds. His performance is a key for the success of this bullpen.

In my view, the Reds truly can't afford to have him on the mound until this issue is solved. His role is too important -- with last night serving as an example.
I'm not an expert here, but can they put him on the DL due to an unspecified "muscle soreness" issue? That would give him about 3 weeks off for the Reds to perhaps bring him back to where he was. I don't know if that would pass muster with the rules, but it's just an idea.
If a team wants to take a player off the active roster by disabling him for 10 days, they can. There is no medical oversight by MLB. Not a bad idea.

He did have 4-5 days off for the All star break. If they suspected arm fatigue, Bell should have just not used him in Denver and he would have had almost 10 days off. As it sits, Bell used him again Saturday nightand he was bad again, got nobody out. Bell has to stop using him in close games.

Thankfully the bats saved Roark, who "scattered" 13 hits over 4 2/3 innings. The rest of the bullpen was great, nice to see Peralta go 2 scoreless.

Hopefully the bats stay lively...
  #1817  
Old 07-14-19, 09:06 AM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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Well, the Reds didn't listen to my words of wisdom. David Hernandez comes in....walks the 1st guy, then gives up a base hit -- 2 batters faced but can't retire either one.
When will they ever learn to read Yappi before making any decisions?
  #1818  
Old 07-14-19, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
Well, the Reds didn't listen to my words of wisdom. David Hernandez comes in....walks the 1st guy, then gives up a base hit -- 2 batters faced but can't retire either one.
When will they ever learn to read Yappi before making any decisions?
Hernandez is worn out. Bell has ridden him too hard this season, it's absolutely ridiculous.
  #1819  
Old 07-15-19, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
Well, the Reds didn't listen to my words of wisdom. David Hernandez comes in....walks the 1st guy, then gives up a base hit -- 2 batters faced but can't retire either one.
When will they ever learn to read Yappi before making any decisions?
Firmly tongue in cheek...but this isn't that difficult. You had a rested Lorenzen and Iglesias Friday night, you're to the 8th inning, 6 outs to go. For most of us, Hernandez would be the 4th/ 5th/ 6th choice? I just don't get it.

Big win for the guys Saturday, after being behind 3 different times.

Sunday, again, I don't understand how they manage Mahle. Historically, over the few years he's been up, he tends to lose it, and lose it quickly. So once you get to the 5th inning and beyond, you have to have Solomon up and throwing just to be ready. Yesterday, the Reds went into the bottom of the 5th up 5-4, seven, SEVEN batters go to the plate, score 5 runs and it's 9-5 before you take him out?
  #1820  
Old 07-15-19, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Firmly tongue in cheek...but this isn't that difficult. You had a rested Lorenzen and Iglesias Friday night, you're to the 8th inning, 6 outs to go. For most of us, Hernandez would be the 4th/ 5th/ 6th choice? I just don't get it.

Big win for the guys Saturday, after being behind 3 different times.

Sunday, again, I don't understand how they manage Mahle. Historically, over the few years he's been up, he tends to lose it, and lose it quickly. So once you get to the 5th inning and beyond, you have to have Solomon up and throwing just to be ready. Yesterday, the Reds went into the bottom of the 5th up 5-4, seven, SEVEN batters go to the plate, score 5 runs and it's 9-5 before you take him out?
As a manager they need to know this, if it is indeed true.

When I was coaching we kept the pitch count pretty much solely for the reason of tracking their effectiveness and yeah there were some guys who hit the wall at around the same count each time. If possible, we would try to allow them to go past it a little bit to maybe build stamina, but oftentimes in MLB you do not have that luxury.

They need to have guys ready if indeed that is his trend.


Seems like each year I watch lesss and less Reds/MLB baseball. Maybe it is the losing tgaht has me lost.
  #1821  
Old 07-15-19, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Sunday, again, I don't understand how they manage Mahle. Historically, over the few years he's been up, he tends to lose it, and lose it quickly. So once you get to the 5th inning and beyond, you have to have Solomon up and throwing just to be ready. Yesterday, the Reds went into the bottom of the 5th up 5-4, seven, SEVEN batters go to the plate, score 5 runs and it's 9-5 before you take him out?
I was about to really agree with your post, but then you made up the name of a player that is not even on the 40 man roster. You are hopeless.

But you are correct about Mahle. It is no mystery, and it has nothing to do with pitch count. He gets crushed 3rd time through the lineup, almost every time.

The team defense was rotten and hurt Mahle the first inning. But shame on Bell for not having someone ready to go in the 5th. Ideally someone who is on the roster!
  #1822  
Old 07-15-19, 02:17 PM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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If only Solomon had been ready to save the day. Last I heard, he never even suited up. What's up with that guy?
  #1823  
Old 07-15-19, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
I was about to really agree with your post, but then you made up the name of a player that is not even on the 40 man roster. You are hopeless.

But you are correct about Mahle. It is no mystery, and it has nothing to do with pitch count. He gets crushed 3rd time through the lineup, almost every time.

The team defense was rotten and hurt Mahle the first inning. But shame on Bell for not having someone ready to go in the 5th. Ideally someone who is on the roster!
Ha...Solomon....should be some - one! C'mon Mon!!

And Mahle could have got out of the first, the single that scored the first two runs went right through his legs. These guys have awful fielding position on follow through. That could had been fielded and 0-0, end 1.
  #1824  
Old 07-15-19, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
As a manager they need to know this, if it is indeed true.

When I was coaching we kept the pitch count pretty much solely for the reason of tracking their effectiveness and yeah there were some guys who hit the wall at around the same count each time. If possible, we would try to allow them to go past it a little bit to maybe build stamina, but oftentimes in MLB you do not have that luxury.

They need to have guys ready if indeed that is his trend.


Seems like each year I watch lesss and less Reds/MLB baseball. Maybe it is the losing tgaht has me lost.
No no no Voice, you need to watch now...this team is building for the future. The starting pitching is light years ahead of the last few years. If this team could somehow consistently score 4-5 runs a game, we'd be 10 games better than we are now. The only starter for sure I see not with us in 2020 is Roark. Castillo, Gray, Disclafani and Mahle, along with possibly Wood, or someone else will be in the rotation. Iglesias, Garrett, Lorenzen form a solid nucleus of a bullpen. Votto, Suarez, Senzel are your definite holdovers for next season. Winker/ Ervin, Dietrich, Taylor Trammell, we could possibly sing a free agent but this team is on the right track. Get on board now!
  #1825  
Old 07-15-19, 03:06 PM
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If this team could somehow consistently score 4-5 runs a game, we'd be 10 games better than we are now.
Those darn numbers get you every time!!! The Reds average 4.4 runs per game. Minnesota leads the MLB at 5.6 runs per game.

The key word is consistently. Reds score 17, then score 9, we need to avoid going 1,2,0,1 the next 4 games.
  #1826  
Old 07-15-19, 03:22 PM
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Ok, something to debate folks....many are saying the Reds need to add or buy...not sell...

So what are you going to add? Where are you going to put them? We currently have a guy who in the month of July is 10/18, with a home run, 3 triples, a double and 4 RBI...Phil Ervin, who isn't in the lineup tonight? And that's with Winker likely missing some games due to injury.

My guess is IF the Reds move anyone, it would be Iglesias (the shortstop) and or Puig and replace them. Could add a catcher. But other than that, we really struggle getting enough at bats for the platoon guys we have.
  #1827  
Old 07-15-19, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Ok, something to debate folks....many are saying the Reds need to add or buy...not sell...

So what are you going to add? Where are you going to put them? We currently have a guy who in the month of July is 10/18, with a home run, 3 triples, a double and 4 RBI...Phil Ervin, who isn't in the lineup tonight? And that's with Winker likely missing some games due to injury.

My guess is IF the Reds move anyone, it would be Iglesias (the shortstop) and or Puig and replace them. Could add a catcher. But other than that, we really struggle getting enough at bats for the platoon guys we have.
They should be selling.
  #1828  
Old 07-15-19, 05:01 PM
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Maybe they’ll get lucky and someone fell in love with Ervin and Iglesias.
  #1829  
Old 07-16-19, 05:49 AM
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12 games against NL Central opponents and 3 more against the Rockies prior to the trade deadline. How many do they need to win to be buyers? IMO they need to win 12 of 15. That would put them 4 games over .500 and probably within a couple of spots of a WC and maybe within a game or 2 of the Division.
While I want to see this team be competitive and exciting to the end I also want them to be a contender in the future. Standing pat or buying doesn't help their future and likely doesn't get them to the playoffs this year either.

The Reds are 3.5 out of the WC but only 2 teams in the NL have worse records. It's very unlikely they jump 8 teams.
  #1830  
Old 07-16-19, 06:03 AM
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They shouldn’t be buyers.
 

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