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  #1  
Old 05-25-18, 07:01 AM
SLS SLS is offline
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Oyler's one-man track team

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/spo...eam/626529002/
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  #2  
Old 05-25-18, 07:30 AM
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It seems that he did score 28 points in the team competition at New Richmond's DIII District meet even though OHSAA said that his efforts would not be counted for team points.
Men - Division III - Team Rankings - 17 Events Scored
================================================== =============================
1) Cin. Co. Day 102.50 2) Sum. Co. Day 96.50
3) Williamsburg 83.50 4) Purcell Marian 60.50
5) Georgetown 53 6) Gamble Montessori 40
7) Seven Hills 30 8) Oyler 28
9) Cin. Christian 23 10) Deer Park 22
11) Felicity-Franklin 19 11) Ripley-Union 19
13) MVCA 18 13) Fayetteville-Perry 18
15) St. Bernard 10 15) Hillcrest 10

Since the top two teams were only separated by 6 points, there could be scenarios where the team championship could be decided by a "non-team".
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Old 05-25-18, 08:05 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is online now
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So the OHSAA will be enforcing this rule going forward?
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  #4  
Old 05-25-18, 08:25 AM
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Not sure. We'll see what happens at the Piqua D-III regional.
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  #5  
Old 05-25-18, 09:09 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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This has to be one of the dumber rules on the books. Thomas IS a representative of the school, therefore a member of their TEAM.

I can't tell you how MANY athletes that have scored at State meets of the past were one of less than a handful of competitors that ever competed for their school in the tournament.

If the man can pull down 28, 30, or 40 points own, then by golly good for him and his efforts are every bit as equal to that of other "teams". Ridiculous rule.
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Old 05-25-18, 09:33 AM
Altor Altor is offline
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Javman, it's not about the number of competitors. According to the article, Oyler was not supposed to be scored as a team because the school is on probation for not fielding two athletic teams in the winter. I've never heard of that ruling before and it flies in the face of everything I've ever been told about no exhibition in track or cross country. Everybody must have the opportunity to score.

Since the article didn't cite anybody in Columbus by name that told them that, I'm taking it with a grain of salt until I hear otherwise.
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  #7  
Old 05-25-18, 09:52 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Thanks for the info, Altor. I wasn't aware of their "suspension", so I guess we'll all find out soon enough. Hmmm.
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Old 05-25-18, 10:33 AM
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It's my understanding of the article that he was cleared to complete as an individual, just can't score points for the team. The New Richmond DIII meet was done by ghgtiming. Since finishtiming is doing the Wayne regional, you can take it to the bank that Oyler won't score any points. I wouldn't call it exhibition running. He will be listed in the results and is eligible for any awards given out for those places.
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  #9  
Old 05-25-18, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
It's my understanding of the article that he was cleared to complete as an individual, just can't score points for the team. The New Richmond DIII meet was done by ghgtiming. Since finishtiming is doing the Wayne regional, you can take it to the bank that Oyler won't score any points. I wouldn't call it exhibition running. He will be listed in the results and is eligible for any awards given out for those places.
I take it he is also eligible to advance to the state meet if he places high enough or runs a fast enough time?

Last edited by Mr. Slippery; 05-25-18 at 11:01 AM..
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Old 05-25-18, 10:45 AM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
Javman, it's not about the number of competitors. According to the article, Oyler was not supposed to be scored as a team because the school is on probation for not fielding two athletic teams in the winter. I've never heard of that ruling before and it flies in the face of everything I've ever been told about no exhibition in track or cross country. Everybody must have the opportunity to score.

Since the article didn't cite anybody in Columbus by name that told them that, I'm taking it with a grain of salt until I hear otherwise.
So if he wins the event== 10 points usually.

Does that 10 points then go to 2nd place?

I don't understand the interpretation of the ruling.
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Old 05-25-18, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
Javman, it's not about the number of competitors. According to the article, Oyler was not supposed to be scored as a team because the school is on probation for not fielding two athletic teams in the winter. I've never heard of that ruling before and it flies in the face of everything I've ever been told about no exhibition in track or cross country. Everybody must have the opportunity to score.

Since the article didn't cite anybody in Columbus by name that told them that, I'm taking it with a grain of salt until I hear otherwise.
what happens if he interferes with a "team runner"?
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  #12  
Old 05-25-18, 11:05 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
It's my understanding of the article that he was cleared to complete as an individual, just can't score points for the team. The New Richmond DIII meet was done by ghgtiming. Since finishtiming is doing the Wayne regional, you can take it to the bank that Oyler won't score any points. I wouldn't call it exhibition running. He will be listed in the results and is eligible for any awards given out for those places.
Does he get to move on to the state meet? Does he get to get on the awards stand? I wonder if the software allows for modifications like this?
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  #13  
Old 05-25-18, 11:08 AM
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I love how subjective our decisions in sports have become.
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  #14  
Old 05-25-18, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by JAVMAN83 View Post
Does he get to move on to the state meet? Does he get to get on the awards stand? I wonder if the software allows for modifications like this?
If you read the article in its entirety, you will see he is cleared to participate in the tournament, so that would include advancing to state, getting on the podium for an award, etc. This from the article.

"Should he be among the top at the regional meet at Troy, Thomas and his coach Ray Nephew will get their picture next to the Jesse Owens statue at Ohio State's track at the Division III state meet."
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  #15  
Old 05-25-18, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
If you read the article in its entirety, you will see he is cleared to participate in the tournament, so that would include advancing to state, getting on the podium for an award, etc. This from the article.

"Should he be among the top at the regional meet at Troy, Thomas and his coach Ray Nephew will get their picture next to the Jesse Owens statue at Ohio State's track at the Division III state meet."
I'm glad OHSAA turned-tail on this one and are allowing him to compete. I hope they get rid of whatever stupid rule they have in place that prevented him in the first place. I understand the whole "membership in good standing" requirement, but since athletes that are home-schooled or from private schools can compete, then a one-man team from a school that was deemed as acceptable at the beginning of the school year should be. Oyler should, however, do their best in the future to avoid such a situation.
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  #16  
Old 05-25-18, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
what happens if he interferes with a "team runner"?
You guys can't get your arms around this, can you? He has every right to be in any race he qualified for, the same as any other qualifier who can score points for his school. He was cleared for that by the OHSAA. If he interferes with someone, he will be disqualified just like anyone else would be.
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  #17  
Old 05-25-18, 12:52 PM
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I sent an email to Scott Springer who wrote the article. He assures me that his info about the Oyler athlete competing but not scoring is accurate. I have contacted his source at OHSAA and am awaiting a response. It would be a reasonable assumption that that he is allowed to advance.
Since he is a sprinter, who will get the 8th place points when he runs in all three finals for which he has qualified ? Will the points go un-awarded? Will the 9th fastest in the prelims get the points? it could get ugly. If someone DQ's or DNR's, will the 7th place points go to the 9th fastest person in the prelims?
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  #18  
Old 05-25-18, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Rohbino View Post
What's about the Withrow girls this year? J'Alyiea Smith has a better than average chance of scoring high points in four events - 100 & 300 hurdles, high jump, and long jump. She may even win a few events. Her points could give Withrow a top 5 to 10 finish in the team scoring but I believe that Withrow only had 6 or 7 athletes compete at the district meet.

I just don't get it. This just seems like one of those rules that the OHSAA enacted in order to exert some authority and power. Withrow should be allowed to tally in the team total because they had 6 or 7 athletes at the district. Does that make them any less worthy than a team that had 9 athletes? In my eyes they're still a team. Likewise with this kid from Oyler. He's the athlete that represents the school and therefore he should be able to score points. Asinine rule.
Withrow had at least 9 from another thread that was posted. They are fine with regard to this asinine rule.
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  #19  
Old 05-26-18, 02:40 PM
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Ricky won the DIII Troy Regional 400 in 49.67 and now moves on the Columbus in the 400 only, didn't make it out in the 100 or 200.

http://live.finishtiming.com/#/resul...event/13/Final
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  #20  
Old 05-26-18, 05:33 PM
SLS SLS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
Ricky won the DIII Troy Regional 400 in 49.67 and now moves on the Columbus in the 400 only, didn't make it out in the 100 or 200.

http://live.finishtiming.com/#/resul...event/13/Final
He also scored 14 team points. Best of luck to him at the state meet.
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  #21  
Old 05-27-18, 08:12 AM
the123kidz the123kidz is offline
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If I remember correctly, Bobby Cruse single handidly won a state championship for Lebrea back in the mid 90's.
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  #22  
Old 05-27-18, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLS View Post
He also scored 14 team points. Best of luck to him at the state meet.
How is he still scoring points for Oyler? Read the first post in this thread whereby a Cincinnati Enquirer reporter said this:

"A few weeks back, this wasn't possible as the OHSAA initially ruled Thomas couldn't participate because of Oyler's failure to field two teams per season. Fortunately, the lanky sprinter can now run in the postseason, but Oyler cannot accumulate points as a team."

Also, see post 18 where SLS contacted the Enquirer and was told this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLS View Post
I sent an email to Scott Springer who wrote the article. He assures me that his info about the Oyler athlete competing but not scoring is accurate. I have contacted his source at OHSAA and am awaiting a response. It would be a reasonable assumption that that he is allowed to advance.
Since he is a sprinter, who will get the 8th place points when he runs in all three finals for which he has qualified ? Will the points go un-awarded? Will the 9th fastest in the prelims get the points? it could get ugly. If someone DQ's or DNR's, will the 7th place points go to the 9th fastest person in the prelims?
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  #23  
Old 05-27-18, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by the123kidz View Post
If I remember correctly, Bobby Cruse single handidly won a state championship for Lebrea back in the mid 90's.
Cruse was a good one (3x DII state champ in 100 and 200, and won the sprint triple in '96). However, he did not score all of LaBrae's points when they won in '95. They had an 800 runner place 3rd to get the team's other 6 points.

2 instances I've found so far of 1 boy leading his team to a state title:

1) Barberton's Glenn "Jeep" Davis who scored all 20 of the team's points to win the 1954 Class A state title. Davis won the 220, won the 180LH, and won the broad jump, and was 4th in the 100. Prior to 1970, the state meet scoring was 6-4-3-2-1. Not sure how long that scoring system was used prior to 1970. One of the true historians on this forum likely knows that.

2) The scoring change was just in the nick of time because 1 of cvc's heroes did the deed in Class AA for Gilmour Academy. Eric Penick won the 100, 220, and 440 to score all 30 points for the victorious Lancers in 1971.

There could be a few others, but I'm not intending to spend my entire holiday weekend looking for them.

Last edited by Mr. Slippery; 05-27-18 at 11:35 AM..
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  #24  
Old 05-27-18, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Altor View Post
Javman, it's not about the number of competitors. According to the article, Oyler was not supposed to be scored as a team because the school is on probation for not fielding two athletic teams in the winter. I've never heard of that ruling before and it flies in the face of everything I've ever been told about no exhibition in track or cross country. Everybody must have the opportunity to score.

Since the article didn't cite anybody in Columbus by name that told them that, I'm taking it with a grain of salt until I hear otherwise.
It is Article 3-3-4 and 3-3-5 in the OHSAA's Constitution. I never knew it existed either until this fall when 8 more schools were placed on probation and were ineligible for postseason competition - Cleveland Collinwood was the most notable of them. I suppose it exists in order to prevent schools from putting literally everything into 1 sport like some of the basketball factories around the country that masquerade as prep schools.

The Executive Director’s Office found that eight member schools, Mount Gilead Christian School, Cleveland Horizon Science Academy, Cleveland Northeast Ohio College Preparatory School, Cincinnati Riverview East Academy, Bellaire St. John Central High School, Cleveland Collinwood High School, Cleveland Martin Luther King Jr. High School and Cleveland Jane Addams High School, failed to comply with Constitution Article 3-3-4 and/or 3-3-5, Continuing Membership - Participation in 50% of Maximum Allowable Regular Season Contests, Two Sport Minimum and OHSAA Post Season Tournament, during the fall sports season. As a result, each of the eight schools has been placed on probation immediately. Due to the probationary period, all sports teams sponsored by the schools shall remain ineligible for OHSAA sponsored tournaments through, at least, the 2018-19 school year and may reapply to become a full, active member during the 2019-20 school year.

http://www.ohsaa.org/Portals/0/Board...uary182018.pdf Page 4

http://www.ohsaa.org/Portals/0/About...nstitution.pdf


I've skimmed some of the other OHSAA Board meeting minutes from the past 2-3 years and cannot find where it was stated that Oyler was found to be in violation of the rule, but I could've easily missed it. Does anyone know exactly when Oyler was placed on probation?
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Old 05-27-18, 12:48 PM
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There was an appeal filed on behalf on Ricky Thomas II to allow him to compete and the appear was denied on May 3, 2018

http://ohsaa.org/Portals/0/Eligibili...nelMinutes.pdf
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Old 05-27-18, 12:57 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
It is Article 3-3-4 and 3-3-5 in the OHSAA's Constitution. I never knew it existed either until this fall when 8 more schools were placed on probation and were ineligible for postseason competition - Cleveland Collinwood was the most notable of them. I suppose it exists in order to prevent schools from putting literally everything into 1 sport like some of the basketball factories around the country that masquerade as prep schools.

The Executive Director’s Office found that eight member schools, Mount Gilead Christian School, Cleveland Horizon Science Academy, Cleveland Northeast Ohio College Preparatory School, Cincinnati Riverview East Academy, Bellaire St. John Central High School, Cleveland Collinwood High School, Cleveland Martin Luther King Jr. High School and Cleveland Jane Addams High School, failed to comply with Constitution Article 3-3-4 and/or 3-3-5, Continuing Membership - Participation in 50% of Maximum Allowable Regular Season Contests, Two Sport Minimum and OHSAA Post Season Tournament, during the fall sports season. As a result, each of the eight schools has been placed on probation immediately. Due to the probationary period, all sports teams sponsored by the schools shall remain ineligible for OHSAA sponsored tournaments through, at least, the 2018-19 school year and may reapply to become a full, active member during the 2019-20 school year.

http://www.ohsaa.org/Portals/0/Board...uary182018.pdf Page 4

http://www.ohsaa.org/Portals/0/About...nstitution.pdf


I've skimmed some of the other OHSAA Board meeting minutes from the past 2-3 years and cannot find where it was stated that Oyler was found to be in violation of the rule, but I could've easily missed it. Does anyone know exactly when Oyler was placed on probation?

Cleveland Jane Addams ??? Did John get kicked to the curb?
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Old 05-27-18, 01:02 PM
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Maybe John wasn't enough of a Tarzan like person for Jane to accept. Most of the early Tarzan movies did feature a John as Tarzan.
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Old 05-27-18, 01:15 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Maybe John wasn't enough of a Tarzan like person for Jane to accept. Most of the early Tarzan movies did feature a John as Tarzan.
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Old 05-27-18, 01:21 PM
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I just sent an email to Ricky's coach Ray Nephew about the situation.
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Old 05-27-18, 01:28 PM
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Cleveland Jane Addams ??? Did John get kicked to the curb?
John Adams closed in 1995 along with West Tech and Aviation but was eventually rebuilt and reopened in 2006 (the other 2 were not so fortunate). Nickname is the "Rebels." In addition to the original school's track and field successes, they had a stud 800 meter guy about 10 years ago named Willie Brown. Brown was 3rd in the 800 the year Neff doubled and went on to have a pretty good collegiate career at Akron.

John Hay also recently closed for a few years but was rebuilt and reopened as a magnet school for early college curriculum. Nickname is the "Hornets."

Jane Addams is another Cleveland public school focusing on business-related fields of study along with culinary arts. Nickname is the "Executives." I believe the school's student body is slightly skewed in favor of females.

Last edited by Mr. Slippery; 05-27-18 at 01:41 PM..
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