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  #1  
Old 05-14-18, 11:18 AM
coachg coachg is offline
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New Clubs??

Just curious why new clubs start up? What is not being done by the clubs in the area already that a new club needs to start? Is it adult ego, money grab or what?

http://www.masonfc.com/
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  #2  
Old 05-14-18, 01:05 PM
yapster2017 yapster2017 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachg View Post
Just curious why new clubs start up? What is not being done by the clubs in the area already that a new club needs to start? Is it adult ego, money grab or what?

http://www.masonfc.com/


Probably the same reason why CU sells Chairs, head bands, and anything else they can put the CU logo on. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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  #3  
Old 05-14-18, 01:12 PM
coachg coachg is offline
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Originally Posted by yapster2017 View Post
Probably the same reason why CU sells Chairs, head bands, and anything else they can put the CU logo on. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Whats fan gear that people can chose to buy or not buy have to do with anything. Last I checked most clubs seem to sell it. I am am not sure what fan gear has to do with another club starting up? My question is what are the current clubs not offering that makes someone think yet another club is needed?
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Old 05-14-18, 01:30 PM
yapster2017 yapster2017 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachg View Post
Whats fan gear that people can chose to buy or not buy have to do with anything. Last I checked most clubs seem to sell it. I am am not sure what fan gear has to do with another club starting up? My question is what are the current clubs not offering that makes someone think yet another club is needed?



$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is what it all comes down to IMO. It isnít fair to assume or insinuate that a new club is in the sport for any other reason than the other clubs in the area. If you assume that CU is in it for development and not the money then why canít this club be in it for the same reason? If we make any assertions otherwise then I feel itís fair to make the same assertions about the other clubs in the area.
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  #5  
Old 05-14-18, 02:07 PM
coachg coachg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yapster2017 View Post
$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is what it all comes down to IMO. It isnít fair to assume or insinuate that a new club is in the sport for any other reason than the other clubs in the area. If you assume that CU is in it for development and not the money then why canít this club be in it for the same reason? If we make any assertions otherwise then I feel itís fair to make the same assertions about the other clubs in the area.
Let me try this again.. What is this new club going to offer that CU, OE, WCSA, Thunder, FOSC, Butler Fury, Lakota, Alliance, Star or any other club in that area isn't offering?
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  #6  
Old 05-14-18, 02:17 PM
ammtd34 ammtd34 is offline
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Originally Posted by coachg View Post
Let me try this again.. What is this new club going to offer that CU, OE, WCSA, Thunder, FOSC, Butler Fury, Lakota, Alliance, Star or any other club in that area isn't offering?
That probably remains to be seen and we can watch it play out as the club either succeeds or folds.
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  #7  
Old 05-14-18, 02:26 PM
mollautt mollautt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachg View Post
Just curious why new clubs start up? What is not being done by the clubs in the area already that a new club needs to start? Is it adult ego, money grab or what?

http://www.masonfc.com/
=>Mason FC has been around for at least 2 years.

New clubs in Cincy area (that I can think of) in the last handful of years:


1. Mason FC
2. Loveland Storm
3. Alliance Cincinnati (merger of CSA and Beechmont)
4. Milford Soccer (GCPSL)
5. Cincy SC
6. Sycamore Premier
7. Loveland Storm
8. Impact GFC (around since 2010, but now adding boys teams)
9. Fairview (GCPSL)
10. Camden Soccer
11. Cincy DA (girls only)
12. Greenhills Soccer (GCPSL)
13. Morgan Ross (GCPSL)
14. St. John's AA (GCPSL)
15. Madeira FC
16. TCYO (GCPSL)
17. Colerain A.A. (GCPSL)
18. Fairfield Impact (GCPSL)
19. Lakota FC
20. British Elite
21. Ohio Elite - (NKY branch)
22. Ohio United FC
23. Independence Soccer Club (NKY)
24. Highland County Soccer Club
25. Fusion FC (NKY)
26. 5 Points United
27. Butler Fury S.C.
28. Club Ohio - Cincinnati branch
29. Total Ginga Academy - once futsal, now has outdoor teams
30 NKSA Legends (NKY)
31. Apex Cincinnati
32. Mercury Soccer
33. Cincinnati Elite FC - Alex Rawlings new club
34. White Oak (GCPSL)
35. Blanchester (GCPSL)
36. West Chester Soccer Club (GCPSL)


GCPSL is the SAY Premier League. Teams play in club tournaments, but are not carded via Ohio South.

Last edited by mollautt; 05-15-18 at 09:19 AM.. Reason: Added Clubs
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  #8  
Old 05-14-18, 04:19 PM
EXPRESS EXPRESS is offline
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Its bc every parent thinks their kid is an elite player and if they can't make it at one club they will go to the next.





Quote:
Originally Posted by coachg View Post
Let me try this again.. What is this new club going to offer that CU, OE, WCSA, Thunder, FOSC, Butler Fury, Lakota, Alliance, Star or any other club in that area isn't offering?
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  #9  
Old 05-14-18, 05:08 PM
CitrusCrunch CitrusCrunch is offline
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gotta agree with express people will pay for the title/name etc if you cant be premier one place go some where else
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  #10  
Old 05-14-18, 05:12 PM
mollautt mollautt is offline
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=>The old article is a must read. it does not mention soccer, but if you replace baseball and basketball with soccer it would read perfectly the same.
it is pretty funny and enlightening at the same time.

http://www.espn.com/espn/commentary/...strial-complex
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  #11  
Old 05-14-18, 08:16 PM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is offline
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I think there are several reasons.
1) That there's a market for it. Success = $$$$. I'm not sure anyone said they were going to start a local club to get rich.

2) Ambition/Better mousetrap. Having been on the bad end of the CUSA implosion a few years ago, I think the coaches that left genuinely felt that they had the experience and could do things better than the club they left.

3) There's a market for it. Parents will always look for the best opportunity for their kids. That CUSA top team had several girls who didn't make the top team at clubs like BSA and Warren Co. and moved over, and now play CDA and OE, and have committed to power 5, or area D1 schools.

There's a constant evolution in clubs, as their influence waxes and wanes. Programs like ODP go from dominate to irrelevant as will ECNL and CDA in 5 or 10 years.
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  #12  
Old 05-15-18, 09:40 AM
Conan73 Conan73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier Parent View Post
I think there are several reasons.
1) That there's a market for it. Success = $$$$. I'm not sure anyone said they were going to start a local club to get rich.

2) Ambition/Better mousetrap. Having been on the bad end of the CUSA implosion a few years ago, I think the coaches that left genuinely felt that they had the experience and could do things better than the club they left.

3) There's a market for it. Parents will always look for the best opportunity for their kids. That CUSA top team had several girls who didn't make the top team at clubs like BSA and Warren Co. and moved over, and now play CDA and OE, and have committed to power 5, or area D1 schools.

There's a constant evolution in clubs, as their influence waxes and wanes. Programs like ODP go from dominate to irrelevant as will ECNL and CDA in 5 or 10 years.
I agree with your points. Contrary to popular belief, there's no money in Club soccer; at least for the small clubs. You have to pay for field space, equipment (goal posts), league and ref fees, etc. On the revenue side, there's a cap on what you can charge that is determined by the overall market. The large clubs can get a scale benefit that is impossible for a smaller club to achieve.

The people that I've known who started a small club generally thought that they could do it better. They also wanted to run their own show. For the parents, they like the idea of being a part of something small. They develop relationships, their kids have friends on the team, etc. They typically are not focused on being an elite player or getting that big D1 offer.
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  #13  
Old 05-15-18, 11:23 AM
Soccer Toe Soccer Toe is offline
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What about the club WHTTYM?
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  #14  
Old 05-15-18, 11:23 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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Never heard of that one....but it sounds aaaaweeesssoommmeeee bbbbbaaaaabbbbyyyyy!
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  #15  
Old 05-15-18, 11:33 AM
whachutalkinbout whachutalkinbout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mollautt View Post
=>The old article is a must read. it does not mention soccer, but if you replace baseball and basketball with soccer it would read perfectly the same.
it is pretty funny and enlightening at the same time.

http://www.espn.com/espn/commentary/...strial-complex
That article should be required reading for all kindergarten parents. One major problem is though that rec youth leagues are vanishing due to the club leagues rise and many of these clubs are just glorified rec with a higher price tag. If a kid just wants to play soccer or any team sport, it is becoming harder and harder to do so at a rec level past the 2nd or 3rd grade. Sad.
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  #16  
Old 05-15-18, 11:45 AM
whachutalkinbout whachutalkinbout is offline
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I have 5 daughters. The oldest will be a junior and plays on the high school team and plays on a local club team. The second oldest will be a freshman and will tryout for high school in the fall and plays for a club team. The third will be in 6th grade and played rec soccer until this year and has decided not to play anymore because she likes other stuff better - which is totally fine with me. The two youngest are still in primary school and play rec soccer and love it with one practice per week and 8 games total played on Saturdays.

The oldest two were able to play rec soccer through the 8th grade but it was not easy. The oldest daughter's team "went select" starting in the 5th grade, which I thought was ridiculous. I stepped up and coached a rec league team, offering anyone not interested in longer distances for practice and games along with much higher fees to stay on my team with my daughter and play rec. The team split in half, with some playing on both teams. We would scrimmage and typically tie. None of the girls that played just club are still playing soccer. They got burnt out on club and some were cut from their high school teams.

My story is probably not unique but I am putting it out there to show how hard it was 5-6 years ago to keep kids in rec and it becomes harder and harder each year. I always laugh to myself when I see U9 and U10 boys and girls at the grocery wearing costly club uniforms knowing these parents are just throwing money away 99% of the time, especially at that young of an age.
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  #17  
Old 05-15-18, 12:53 PM
Gview Gview is offline
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Originally Posted by whachutalkinbout View Post
I have 5 daughters. The oldest will be a junior and plays on the high school team and plays on a local club team. The second oldest will be a freshman and will tryout for high school in the fall and plays for a club team. The third will be in 6th grade and played rec soccer until this year and has decided not to play anymore because she likes other stuff better - which is totally fine with me. The two youngest are still in primary school and play rec soccer and love it with one practice per week and 8 games total played on Saturdays.

The oldest two were able to play rec soccer through the 8th grade but it was not easy. The oldest daughter's team "went select" starting in the 5th grade, which I thought was ridiculous. I stepped up and coached a rec league team, offering anyone not interested in longer distances for practice and games along with much higher fees to stay on my team with my daughter and play rec. The team split in half, with some playing on both teams. We would scrimmage and typically tie. None of the girls that played just club are still playing soccer. They got burnt out on club and some were cut from their high school teams.

My story is probably not unique but I am putting it out there to show how hard it was 5-6 years ago to keep kids in rec and it becomes harder and harder each year. I always laugh to myself when I see U9 and U10 boys and girls at the grocery wearing costly club uniforms knowing these parents are just throwing money away 99% of the time, especially at that young of an age.

Glad it worked out for you. Don't assume that you know whats best for the 99%. I appreciate the thoughtfulness of you looking out for your kid, but don't assume you know what my kid wants or what is best for her.
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  #18  
Old 05-15-18, 01:13 PM
whachutalkinbout whachutalkinbout is offline
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Originally Posted by Gview View Post
Glad it worked out for you. Don't assume that you know whats best for the 99%. I appreciate the thoughtfulness of you looking out for your kid, but don't assume you know what my kid wants or what is best for her.
I didn't assume anything about you or your kid.

I'm simply stating that it is hard to play rec because it is not really much of any option these days and it is going away faster each year because of clubs. Soccer is a team sport so kids have to play on teams and if no rec teams or leagues exist and they want to play they have to play club.
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  #19  
Old 05-16-18, 07:02 AM
Gview Gview is offline
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Originally Posted by whachutalkinbout View Post
I always laugh to myself when I see U9 and U10 boys and girls at the grocery wearing costly club uniforms knowing these parents are just throwing money away 99% of the time, especially at that young of an age.

OK, then I must have misunderstood that part of the comment.
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  #20  
Old 05-16-18, 07:14 AM
whachutalkinbout whachutalkinbout is offline
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Parents are throwing away money to play club at that age because rec soccer at 7-9 years of age is all they need. Now, rec leagues are harder and harder to find these days even at U8 and U9, which is sad. Many of these clubs are essentially making parents pay more for "rec" soccer under a "club" name. Read the article.
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  #21  
Old 05-16-18, 08:19 AM
Gview Gview is offline
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And again, you make the assumption that all they need is rec, and that parents are throwing money. And also that I hadn't read the article. Even the writer makes the assumption that Buddy Wall wasn't getting to the next level.

"Today, Buddy would have been a travel-ball wonder at 9, feted and honored throughout the land. I'm guessing it would have made the inevitable fall to 19-year-old backup summer league outfielder that much harder to take."

What if he had a coach that taught the mechanics of pitching, instead of just throwing hard? What if the coach taught him how to switch hit, hit to the opposite side, hit for bases not just swing for the fence? It's obvious he wasn't getting that in the Fly-League.

The sad part is you making the assumption that you have the answer. The answer to solve your problem is everyone plays rec. Well that solves your problem but creates more issue for others.

My problem with just rec is that most parents coaches are not there for the other kids, just theirs. Train them all to be better athletes.
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  #22  
Old 05-16-18, 08:30 AM
whachutalkinbout whachutalkinbout is offline
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Originally Posted by Gview View Post
And again, you make the assumption that all they need is rec, and that parents are throwing money. And also that I hadn't read the article. Even the writer makes the assumption that Buddy Wall wasn't getting to the next level.

"Today, Buddy would have been a travel-ball wonder at 9, feted and honored throughout the land. I'm guessing it would have made the inevitable fall to 19-year-old backup summer league outfielder that much harder to take."

What if he had a coach that taught the mechanics of pitching, instead of just throwing hard? What if the coach taught him how to switch hit, hit to the opposite side, hit for bases not just swing for the fence? It's obvious he wasn't getting that in the Fly-League.

The sad part is you making the assumption that you have the answer. The answer to solve your problem is everyone plays rec. Well that solves your problem but creates more issue for others.

My problem with just rec is that most parents coaches are not there for the other kids, just theirs. Train them all to be better athletes.
The only person making assumptions here is you and you seem quite upset that you are probably over paying for glorified rec.
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  #23  
Old 05-16-18, 08:37 AM
Gview Gview is offline
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Where is my assumption?

Oh and btw-I got exactly what I paid for.
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  #24  
Old 05-16-18, 08:38 AM
whachutalkinbout whachutalkinbout is offline
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Originally Posted by Gview View Post
The answer to solve your problem is everyone plays rec.
Most already are playing rec, you and others are just paying 3 times for it and traveling twice as much.
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  #25  
Old 05-16-18, 08:40 AM
whachutalkinbout whachutalkinbout is offline
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Oh and btw-I got exactly what I paid for.
You do indeed. Glorified rec.
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  #26  
Old 05-16-18, 08:52 AM
Gview Gview is offline
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So if most are playing rec why the hell are you complaining about getting games?

Wow. I can't keep up, too old to give a damn about your issues with club soccer.
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  #27  
Old 05-16-18, 08:54 AM
whachutalkinbout whachutalkinbout is offline
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Originally Posted by Gview View Post
So if most are playing rec why the hell are you complaining about getting games?

Wow. I can't keep up, too old to give a damn about your issues with club soccer.
They are playing glorified rec, like your daughter and paying 3 times as much and traveling twice as far.
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  #28  
Old 05-16-18, 11:55 AM
Conan73 Conan73 is offline
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The major reason for the movement of players from rec or SAY soccer to club soccer is coaching. Unlike rec basketball, where most parent coaches have a decent knowledge of the game, typical rec soccer parent coaches (and refs) have a very limited knowledge, if any. This leads to sub par experience for the players.

While soccer is growing in popularity in the US, most parents never played the game nor did they grow up watching it on TV, etc. Basketball, football, and baseball have a much richer history. Therefore, you can find more parents that played or grew up watching it. The result is a better coaching experience.
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  #29  
Old 05-16-18, 12:17 PM
whachutalkinbout whachutalkinbout is offline
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First, let me say there are good qualified coaches at both the rec level and club level and there are some poor/unqualified coaches at both the rec level and club level.

Second, I grew up playing soccer (Gen X'er) and we were really the first US generation to grow up playing soccer at some level or another. None of the parents played soccer unless they came from South America or Europe (which was rare). Now Gen X'ers are the one with these kids and I would say a great deal of these parents did indeed play soccer growing up.

Lastly, there are tons of parent coaches coaching club soccer. There are probably more parent coaches than there are straight professional coaches in the greater Cincinnati area. Some again are good and others not so much.

What has happened in the last 10-15 years is that we have all of these soccer clubs that charge way more than rec or SAY but the bottom third teams for all of these clubs are usually no better than rec teams from 10-15 years ago. These parents are paying club prices for rec soccer.

It is not select when pretty much everyone makes a team with the club. Name a big named area club and I guarantee they will form a team for pretty much any skill level if enough are willing to pay for it. I see it all the time. Some dad has a decent rec team and decides "its time to move to X club" for better bla bla this and bla bla that. Same kids, same coach, new league, double or triple the cost and certainly more travel. Cooler uniforms though.

Last edited by whachutalkinbout; 05-16-18 at 12:54 PM..
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  #30  
Old 05-16-18, 02:59 PM
ammtd34 ammtd34 is offline
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U mad?
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