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  #1  
Old 06-13-18, 04:11 PM
Casting Couch Casting Couch is offline
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What if Ohio had districts?

I've thought about this recently because some states (including Kentucky and Texas) divide their football teams into districts determined by the state. With so many schools leaving conferences and creating new conferences in Ohio, it makes me wonder if this would be better or worse than the current situation. Anyone have any thoughts on this issue and how it could work out??
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Old 06-13-18, 04:15 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Why can't schools be allowed to do what they want.
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Old 06-13-18, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Why can't schools be allowed to do what they want.
I'm not advocating for districts or no districts I'm just trying to find out how people feel about the issue. Obviously you're opposed to the OHSAA assigning districts because you feel schools should make their own decisions when it comes to forming leagues.
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Old 06-13-18, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casting Couch View Post
I've thought about this recently because some states (including Kentucky and Texas) divide their football teams into districts determined by the state. With so many schools leaving conferences and creating new conferences in Ohio, it makes me wonder if this would be better or worse than the current situation. Anyone have any thoughts on this issue and how it could work out??
The politics of it are tricky in Ohio, no way would many pubs want to be lumped in and play regular season games with the local privates even with competitive balance factored. Would make scheduling a whole lot easier for many programs though...
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Old 06-13-18, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Auggie View Post
Would make scheduling a whole lot easier for many programs though...
I think that scheduling is very easy right now for the majority of the schools in Ohio. It's the outliers that have problems filling out their schedules. Computer points have alot to do with those difficulties.

I'm guessing that using districts would cause more problems than it would solve. A team like Mogadore is a good example. They play in a larger league and still have a ton of success but the games are close by. If they went to a district of similar size schools, Mogadore may find itself playing alot of games against teams from far off distances.
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Old 06-13-18, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Auggie View Post
The politics of it are tricky in Ohio, no way would many pubs want to be lumped in and play regular season games with the local privates even with competitive balance factored. Would make scheduling a whole lot easier for many programs though...
Agreed...you’d have to split public/private if we went to districts, which will never happen.

Hence the point is kind of moot.

The only real reason I’m not a fan of the district format is that it renders non-district games pretty much meaningless.
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Old 06-13-18, 05:49 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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Great point it Private Fish Gump you are correct and a goddamn genius that is true the non conference games don't mean anything in Texas except for National and State rankings . Great point man
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Old 06-13-18, 06:04 PM
Casting Couch Casting Couch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fish82 View Post
Agreed...you’d have to split public/private if we went to districts, which will never happen.

Hence the point is kind of moot.

The only real reason I’m not a fan of the district format is that it renders non-district games pretty much meaningless.
I get what you're saying about non-district games being meaningless but in every OHSAA sports besides football the whole regular season is meaningless because everyone makes the playoffs.
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  #9  
Old 06-13-18, 07:46 PM
scbuckeye99 scbuckeye99 is offline
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You don't want districts nor the state to determine those districts. I coach in South Carolina and we have "Regions" that are realigned every two years by the state.

Pro's - the state tries it's best to organize regions based on size and location. Some regions are really good on travel, but if you're a large school surrounded by smaller schools then you are out of luck. MOST of the time region opponents stay the same. Unless you're in an area that is constantly growing chances are you'll stay put for a while. It may not always be the exact same schools but most will stay the same.

Con's - not every region has the same quality of athletics as the next. In SC regions are assigned for ALL sports. So be it football or basketball or tennis you're playing the same schools in all sports. One region will not doubt be better overall in athletics than others as well. My school's region is overall pretty weak athletically. Just being honest.

I do wish the state would allow schools the freedom to make their own decisions but its the system that SC has used going back to the 60s so..... yea.
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  #10  
Old 06-13-18, 08:00 PM
270SC 270SC is offline
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There eventually willl be districts for sure, and what we are seeing with Trotwood and Zanesville is the reasoning behind it.

The seeding system for playoffs in Ohio for all sports but football is an absolute joke, where in many sports most coaches have no clue who and how to seed teams. Then you have large conferences like the OCC in Columbus where players, parents, and even coaches forget what the name is of their division, or really care about what division they are in because of the turnover.

In Texas, they do have some private schools playing in the public school districts at the largest level but it is rare, they think it’s very funny how our state has “conferences like college sports” not comprehending that if you win your conference, it is virtually meaningless for playoffs.
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  #11  
Old 06-13-18, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 270SC View Post
There eventually willl be districts for sure, and what we are seeing with Trotwood and Zanesville is the reasoning behind it.
lost me early in your post. no way is that "for sure"
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Old 06-13-18, 08:07 PM
Vincent and Regina Vincent and Regina is offline
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Bad idea.

If you use this example of having Colerain, X, Elder, and Oak Hills in one district and in district two you have Moeller, Sycamore, Mason, and Milford, those district really aren't balanced.
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Old 06-13-18, 08:10 PM
270SC 270SC is offline
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You are right, not “for sure”, but how long until we see “demographic equality” being thrown around to get the state involved to ensure teams like TM are in a conference? It really is completely unfair to the kids that they aren’t in one and then throw in some skewed numbers to show it screwed them in some way (or Zanesville) for playoffs, the wheels will start really turning.

Nonetheless, it’s a matter of time when private finally separates from public. It’s garbage and archaic they still allow for the two to play together in Ohio.

Every team making the playoffs in all other sports...don’t even get me started on that waste of time.

Ohio does many things right, but the conferences got to go.
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  #14  
Old 06-13-18, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent and Regina View Post
Bad idea.

If you use this example of having Colerain, X, Elder, and Oak Hills in one district and in district two you have Moeller, Sycamore, Mason, and Milford, those district really aren't balanced.
Most districts in Texas, Louisiana, Kentucky, Georgia and Tennessee from my knowledge are 8 teams.

Unbalanced? Much more balanced than Ohio that has conferences with teams in different classifications...come on.
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  #15  
Old 06-14-18, 02:13 PM
falcons53 falcons53 is offline
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I live in Texas now and see the districts system in action. A few things to note:

1. Only the public schools compete for a state title in this system. Private schools have their own system and nobody attends the games except family and students. Much different system than we had in Ohio.

2. It is a 14 hour drive (16 on a bus) to get from one side of Texas border to the other. The vast size of the state made it imperative for the state to have some control.

3. The state was rampant with corruption, recruiting, etc. and the state had to wrangle it in. Some changes went too far in my opinion. No coach for any sport can be on staff and work with the kids unless they are a teacher/administrator for that school district. This negatively affects smaller and niche sports more than football, but football is affected as well.

4. The state has still not solved the school size imbalance issue, similar to Ohio D-1. Texas 6A has some enormous schools that set up alternative campuses within the school (magnet programs) to allow the school to not split into smaller schools. We here complaints here in West Texas because our schools have chosen to build more schools and keep teacher/student ratios sound and education the priority. For instance, Allen High School in the Dallas area has approximately 5,000 students 9th-12th grade. Our high school has approximately 2400 students. We are the largest enrollment in our district. We both play 6A football.
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  #16  
Old 06-14-18, 02:19 PM
scbuckeye99 scbuckeye99 is offline
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It would make scheduling possibly more difficult. Take for instance the WBL. 10 schools, everyone plays everyone s you're left filling one gap in week 1. Easy.

Move to a district format keeping with a 32 team playoff system. D2 has 107 schools in it. If like most states that use the district system took the top 2 per district you'd have to have 16 districts to get 32 giving you 6-7 teams per district. Now coaches and AD's would have to go out and track down 4 or 5 non-district opponents. Some already do that like the Toledo City League but the WBL would be in an uproar I'm sure. For tradition and history sake as well.

Some parts of the state would be easy to "district". Region 6 comes to mind since you have essentially 14 schools in that region that are true NW Ohio. You got 2 solid districts of 7 teams right there with MOST being in Lucas County.

But go to D1, R2 and schools like Whitmer, Start, Findlay would be then be required to travel in all sports to places in either metro Cleveland or metro Columbus.

Those trips are all well and good for Friday night football but a middle of the week volleyball game? It gets old trust me. Imagine being Toledo Whitmer JV Softball having to go play Dublin Jerome on a Wednesday night for a "district match up"
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  #17  
Old 06-14-18, 02:21 PM
scbuckeye99 scbuckeye99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falcons53 View Post
I live in Texas now and see the districts system in action. A few things to note:

1. Only the public schools compete for a state title in this system. Private schools have their own system and nobody attends the games except family and students. Much different system than we had in Ohio.

2. It is a 14 hour drive (16 on a bus) to get from one side of Texas border to the other. The vast size of the state made it imperative for the state to have some control.

3. The state was rampant with corruption, recruiting, etc. and the state had to wrangle it in. Some changes went too far in my opinion. No coach for any sport can be on staff and work with the kids unless they are a teacher/administrator for that school district. This negatively affects smaller and niche sports more than football, but football is affected as well.

4. The state has still not solved the school size imbalance issue, similar to Ohio D-1. Texas 6A has some enormous schools that set up alternative campuses within the school (magnet programs) to allow the school to not split into smaller schools. We here complaints here in West Texas because our schools have chosen to build more schools and keep teacher/student ratios sound and education the priority. For instance, Allen High School in the Dallas area has approximately 5,000 students 9th-12th grade. Our high school has approximately 2400 students. We are the largest enrollment in our district. We both play 6A football.
Does Dallas Jesuit compete with the public schools? I thought for reason they were allowed to but I could be wrong. I know in the book Friday Night Lights they played Permian in a regular season game....I think.
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Old 06-14-18, 02:27 PM
falcons53 falcons53 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scbuckeye99 View Post
It would make scheduling possibly more difficult. Take for instance the WBL. 10 schools, everyone plays everyone s you're left filling one gap in week 1. Easy.

Move to a district format keeping with a 32 team playoff system. D2 has 107 schools in it. If like most states that use the district system took the top 2 per district you'd have to have 16 districts to get 32 giving you 6-7 teams per district. Now coaches and AD's would have to go out and track down 4 or 5 non-district opponents. Some already do that like the Toledo City League but the WBL would be in an uproar I'm sure. For tradition and history sake as well.

Some parts of the state would be easy to "district". Region 6 comes to mind since you have essentially 14 schools in that region that are true NW Ohio. You got 2 solid districts of 7 teams right there with MOST being in Lucas County.

But go to D1, R2 and schools like Whitmer, Start, Findlay would be then be required to travel in all sports to places in either metro Cleveland or metro Columbus.

Those trips are all well and good for Friday night football but a middle of the week volleyball game? It gets old trust me. Imagine being Toledo Whitmer JV Softball having to go play Dublin Jerome on a Wednesday night for a "district match up"
Scheduling could definitely be a nightmare. In Texas we play 4 non-district games to start the season. Essentially meaningless as they don't count towards playoffs. Then play 6 district games over 7 weeks (everyone has a bye week built in). Top 4 in the district make the playoffs and then cross bracket within the region. Some years we get teams that are 3-7 in the playoffs and then lose 66-0 to a Dallas area #1 seed. Definitely can be good with district format, and definitely can be bad.

Houston area is pretty solid with district format because as the schools grow, they tend to open a new school. Dallas area not as much. Frisco Texas fought it. Then opened a new school and won 5A state title with Jerry Jones grandson as the QB. Everyone in Texas said "yeah, but that was 5A" LOL, like a D2 state title in Ohio is less meaningful.
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Old 06-14-18, 02:33 PM
falcons53 falcons53 is offline
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Originally Posted by scbuckeye99 View Post
Does Dallas Jesuit compete with the public schools? I thought for reason they were allowed to but I could be wrong. I know in the book Friday Night Lights they played Permian in a regular season game....I think.
They do. I am not 100% sure how or why they do. From the districts map, there are 2 private schools that compete in 6A. They must have filed and comply with some rule with the U.I.L. I would have to do more research on that.

For giggles, below is Allen's district for last season with enrollment size. They are even bigger than I listed with nearly 6800 kids. Look at the difference in size schools.

District 6
6380 Allen
2475 Denton Guyer
2743McKinney
2846McKinney Boyd
5479.5 Plano
5329.5 Plano East
5648 Plano West
2231Wylie
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Old 06-14-18, 03:11 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casting Couch View Post
I've thought about this recently because some states (including Kentucky and Texas) divide their football teams into districts determined by the state. With so many schools leaving conferences and creating new conferences in Ohio, it makes me wonder if this would be better or worse than the current situation. Anyone have any thoughts on this issue and how it could work out??
It never made any sense to be competing against teams for a playoff spot that can't or won't schedule you.

Most teams don't play more than 5 teams from their region.

Quite a few don't play any.

Yet they are supposedly in competition with each other to make playoff spots?

Stupid.
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Old 06-14-18, 03:12 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Originally Posted by fish82 View Post
Agreed...you’d have to split public/private if we went to districts, which will never happen.

Hence the point is kind of moot.

The only real reason I’m not a fan of the district format is that it renders non-district games pretty much meaningless.
There are plenty of non-region games right now that are meaningless.... what's the difference?
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Old 06-14-18, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 270SC View Post
Nonetheless, it’s a matter of time when private finally separates from public. It’s garbage and archaic they still allow for the two to play together in Ohio.
In the end, ain't it just 16-17 year-olds vs 16-17 year-olds?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 270SC View Post
Every team making the playoffs in all other sports...don’t even get me started on that waste of time.
Does anyone else advocate not letting everyone in post-season in high school sports in Ohio (except football, of course, for logistical reasons)? I'd guess you are in a tiny minority with that thought.

Quote:
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Ohio does many things right, but the conferences got to go.
Another small minority you're in here. 800 OHSAA schools, how many would vote for districts over their current situation? 40? (5% too high?)
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Old 06-14-18, 03:53 PM
arizonawildcat arizonawildcat is offline
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Someone mentioned this the last time the idea of districts came up: could you imagine the screams from the coaches of the six teams who were placed in the same district as Ignatius and Ed's?
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Old 06-14-18, 04:01 PM
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I think you would be surprised at how many ADs and especially football coaches would like to get out of their conferences. Many people are extremely unhappy in Columbus with the OCC whether they are in it or not.

Private and Public shouldn’t be together, not when some can recruit.
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Old 06-14-18, 05:24 PM
Casting Couch Casting Couch is offline
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Does anyone on here have enough insight to be able to create a hypothetical district situation? You can use any divisions you want and use as many districts as you see fit.
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Old 06-14-18, 07:56 PM
Naughty America Naughty America is offline
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Originally Posted by Casting Couch View Post
Does anyone on here have enough insight to be able to create a hypothetical district situation? You can use any divisions you want and use as many districts as you see fit.
Division I Region 4
District 1 - Elder, West Hi, Oak Hills, Colerain, St X, Princeton
District 2 - Moeller, Sycamore, Walnut, Mason, WC, Milford
District 3 - Lakota East, Lakota West, Middletown, Fairfield, Hamilton, Lebanon
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Old 06-14-18, 08:32 PM
Vincent and Regina Vincent and Regina is offline
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Originally Posted by 270SC View Post
Most districts in Texas, Louisiana, Kentucky, Georgia and Tennessee from my knowledge are 8 teams.

Unbalanced? Much more balanced than Ohio that has conferences with teams in different classifications...come on.
You are wrong. I live in Kentucky and most district are either 4 or 5 teams.

A few years ago Highlands and Pendleton County were in the same district. That is the most unbalance district I ever saw.
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Old 06-14-18, 10:50 PM
Sykotyk Sykotyk is offline
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Originally Posted by scbuckeye99 View Post
Does Dallas Jesuit compete with the public schools? I thought for reason they were allowed to but I could be wrong. I know in the book Friday Night Lights they played Permian in a regular season game....I think.
Dallas Jesuit and Strake Jesuit {in Houston), are both members of the UIL. The reason is the private association basically refused to let them be members because they were so much larger than any other private schools.

So the rule is:

If you're not eligible to be a member of another private school association, you can be a member of UIL's largest classification. Also, any evidence of athletic recruiting and you're booted from the UIL with no option of reinstatement.


Basically, the state legislature got involved and this was the compromise that prevented an all out merger between TAPPS and UIL.
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Old 06-15-18, 06:08 AM
fish82 fish82 is online now
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Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
There are plenty of non-region games right now that are meaningless.... what's the difference?

Every game counts for the playoffs, no?
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Old 06-15-18, 08:26 AM
IcyCoolDevil IcyCoolDevil is offline
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[QUOTE=270SC;7057055]You are right, not “for sure”, but how long until we see “demographic equality” being thrown around to get the state involved to ensure teams like TM are in a conference? It really is completely unfair to the kids that they aren’t in one and then throw in some skewed numbers to show it screwed them in some way (or Zanesville) for playoffs, the wheels will start really turning.

QUOTE]

What are you talking about?
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