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  #61  
Old 05-28-18, 10:42 PM
cincyhoops cincyhoops is offline
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Huh? That makes no sense.
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  #62  
Old 05-28-18, 11:00 PM
1 time 1 time is offline
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Exactly !
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  #63  
Old 05-28-18, 11:01 PM
cincyhoops cincyhoops is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
D1 teams make it to state without any. But D1 teams with 1 good player can make it to the final four. Find a Football team in the state D1 semis with none or only 1 All Ohio player on it.
We can have schools with 375-400 boys playing against schools with over 1000 boys or we could put them with schools that have 250-375 boys. And the only argument we have for them playing in D1 is because it keeps the number of teams in each division even. Someone who is smarter than me in math should be able to come up with a formula that would distribute teams so that they are placed in divisions where there is only a certain difference from biggest to smallest team in each division.
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  #64  
Old 05-29-18, 06:39 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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No, TO make your argument you have to have proof that the school with 1000 is dominating the sport and you don't. This is what I have been saying all along, basketball is different than football. How many of the schools with an enrollment number of over 1000 have won state titles in the last 10 years? Why create a formula for a problem that does not exist? There will always be a cutoff where schools of similar size play in different divisions.
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  #65  
Old 05-29-18, 09:43 AM
cincyhoops cincyhoops is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
No, TO make your argument you have to have proof that the school with 1000 is dominating the sport and you don't. This is what I have been saying all along, basketball is different than football. How many of the schools with an enrollment number of over 1000 have won state titles in the last 10 years? Why create a formula for a problem that does not exist? There will always be a cutoff where schools of similar size play in different divisions.
The proof is schools with less than 500 boys rarely advance past the district level. Give me a list of schools that have. I am not making the argument that schools with over 1000 boys dominate. I am making the argument that schools under 450 cant compete in D1. Even schools with 750-800 are about double the size of the small D1s.
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  #66  
Old 05-29-18, 11:54 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Vanlue(33 boys) was beat in their first game of the tournament, should we create a special division for them since they face teams with an enrollment of 4 times their size?
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  #67  
Old 05-29-18, 12:13 PM
cincyhoops cincyhoops is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
Vanlue(33 boys) was beat in their first game of the tournament, should we create a special division for them since they face teams with an enrollment of 4 times their size?
I do believe D4 should also be smaller. D1 and D4 should be smaller and D2 and D3 should be bigger. The majority of schools should fall in then D2-3 range. I would think a simple bell curve of enrollments for teams could be used.
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  #68  
Old 05-29-18, 12:41 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Let's eliminate the tournament, schedule everyone 24 games and just give every team a trophy at the end because they are all winners.
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  #69  
Old 05-29-18, 12:57 PM
cincyhoops cincyhoops is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
Let's eliminate the tournament, schedule everyone 24 games and just give every team a trophy at the end because they are all winners.
I didnít say add any more divisions. Still would be 4 state champions. But I would be ok with just one division as well. If you are going to have multiple divisions then do a better job of putting teams with those of similar enrollments. Otherwise just have 1 division.
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  #70  
Old 05-29-18, 01:16 PM
Snowman8 Snowman8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincyhoops View Post
I do believe D4 should also be smaller. D1 and D4 should be smaller and D2 and D3 should be bigger. The majority of schools should fall in then D2-3 range. I would think a simple bell curve of enrollments for teams could be used.
I'm totally on board with this. I have a friend whose son plays in the MOCAL conference in Central Ohio, so I follow small schools closer than most. Prior to competitive balance, they had to compete with the Harvest Preps and Africentrics of the D4 world. Even now they need to compete with schools that have over 110 boys while they have school enrollments with as few as 17 boys. It's tough for these Division 4 schools who can't even field a JV team to compete with schools that have full freshman rosters.

That being said, not everything has to be fair. Someone will always have a legitimate gripe.
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  #71  
Old 05-29-18, 04:03 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincyhoops View Post
I didnít say add any more divisions. Still would be 4 state champions. But I would be ok with just one division as well. If you are going to have multiple divisions then do a better job of putting teams with those of similar enrollments. Otherwise just have 1 division.
So you are okay with Vanlue playing Mason if the OHSAA says so but not okay with Wilmington playing Mason if OHSAA says so. Interesting.
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  #72  
Old 05-30-18, 03:22 PM
IcyCoolDevil IcyCoolDevil is offline
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After a bit of research things are a bit interesting. I randomly chose to make D1 140 schools with the other divisions being 220 approximately. The smaller D1 schools that last year may have made some noise in D2 would have been Copley, Lake, Canal Winchester, Sidney, and Hoban. Sidney would not have made it past Trotwood anyway and CW only makes noise depending on whether you put them in Region 6 or 8. And I will let the NEO guys argue who goes to state between Copley, Hoban and SVSM! D3 most likely doesn't have much effect depending on how you feel about VASJ battling Lutheran East and Meadowbrook versus Harvest Prep. Because the real travesty in this move is that the team that everyone loves to hate on from last year, Deer Park actually drops to D4 and takes a title away from Marion Local.
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  #73  
Old 05-30-18, 03:29 PM
IcyCoolDevil IcyCoolDevil is offline
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I know nothing about what these teams return next year, but Region 11 could be a battle as Fairland and Meadowbrook both drop from D2 to D3 (without the fantasy division changes) and will be in there versus Harvest Prep.
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  #74  
Old 05-30-18, 03:38 PM
IcyCoolDevil IcyCoolDevil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
So you are okay with Vanlue playing Mason if the OHSAA says so but not okay with Wilmington playing Mason if OHSAA says so. Interesting.
Vanlue has averaged less than four wins per year the past five years. You could put them in their own division and they would struggle to win it!
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  #75  
Old 05-30-18, 08:44 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcyCoolDevil View Post
Vanlue has averaged less than four wins per year the past five years. You could put them in their own division and they would struggle to win it!
But yet cincyhoops is okay with them playing the biggest D1 schools.
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  #76  
Old 05-31-18, 01:56 PM
coachablekid coachablekid is offline
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Just make it 3 Divisions:
The 1st division is all big suburb schools
The 2nd division is all Catholic schools
The 3rd division is city and rural schools
That should work out pretty good, lol
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  #77  
Old 06-01-18, 04:40 PM
trojandave trojandave is offline
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I agree with Cincyhoops, just because there are 200 schools in each division certainly does not mean that the 4 division system is fair. The current D1 needs to be split up and the other 3 divisions realigned. Either do that or go to 5 divisions. I have long been an advocate for 4 divisions, warming up to a 5 division system, but not totally convinced of that yet.
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