Ask the Ref? - Page 15 - Yappi Sports

Andy27 · #**421** 03-08-17, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingpin2010

What about if the player is on defense? Most famous of this was the lakers guard last year hiding behind the coach then coming from behind to make a steal.

Also, I may have got this misconstrued. Last week in our tournament game, one of our players got T'd up for dunking pre-game. So he starts with a foul, the opponent shoots 2 and gets the ball to start. But the coach also was forced to sit on the bench while the ball was live? Overall it seems like an incredibly harsh punishment.

I was under the impression that the coach only had to sit if it was a bench foul or one directly on the coach. That seems to have been applied to the player and the bench?

blue60 · #**422** 03-08-17, 10:23 PM

This rule of no dunking in pregame warmup is got to be one of the dumbest rules ever. In the days before everyone had break-away rims okay. And I have seen officals look the other way and not call it.

afwpatfire · #**423** 03-08-17, 10:24 PM

Yeah, that seems odd. I thought a dunk was a bench foul, so possibly he shouldn't have got the personal foul. I'll let the expert chime in.

kingpin2010 · #**424** 03-08-17, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afwpatfire

Yeah, that seems odd. I thought a dunk was a bench foul, so possibly he shouldn't have got the personal foul. I'll let the expert chime in.

He got the personal and the coach had to sit.

kingpin2010 · #**425** 03-08-17, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy27

I was under the impression that the coach only had to sit if it was a bench foul or one directly on the coach. That seems to have been applied to the player and the bench?

Correct. The player started the game with 1 personal foul, the other team got the free throws and the ball, and the coach had to sit.

AllSports12 · #**426** 03-09-17, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingpin2010

What about if the player is on defense? Most famous of this was the lakers guard last year hiding behind the coach then coming from behind to make a steal.

Delaying one's return to the court (as in "hiding out") will earn a player, by rule, a technical foul.

Competition is intended to take place inside the lines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingpin2010

Also, I may have got this misconstrued. Last week in our tournament game, one of our players got T'd up for dunking pre-game. So he starts with a foul, the opponent shoots 2 and gets the ball to start. But the coach also was forced to sit on the bench while the ball was live? Overall it seems like an incredibly harsh punishment.

The officials administered the penalty for the action correctly.

AllSports12 · #**427** 03-09-17, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy27

I was under the impression that the coach only had to sit if it was a bench foul or one directly on the coach. That seems to have been applied to the player and the bench?

During any and all pregame activities as well as during any intermission, all team members are defined by rule as Bench Personnel. Because of this designation, any technical foul committed by one of the members is penalized as follows....

- Technical Foul against the offender. That foul counts towards not only the 5 that player is allotted for disqualification purposes, but as a Team Foul as well.

- Indirect Technical Foul against the coach. That foul counts towards the combination of two Direct Technical Fouls, one Direct Technical Foul and two Indirect Technical Fouls, or Three Indirect Technical Fouls that result in the ejection of the coach.

- Loss of Coaching Box privileges for the Head Coach for the duration of the game

AllSports12 · #**428** 03-09-17, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue60

This rule of no dunking in pregame warmup is got to be one of the dumbest rules ever. In the days before everyone had break-away rims okay. And I have seen officals look the other way and not call it.

The rule is in place for two reasons......

- Potential unnecessary damage to the equipment. It's not cheap to replace the assembly and will result in the vast majority of the cases, postponement of the game.

- A real potential for unsporting actions between the teams. Hence, the dunking of a dead ball is considered an unsporting act an is penalized as indicated above,

blue60 · #**429** 03-09-17, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllSports12

The rule is in place for two reasons......

- Potential unnecessary damage to the equipment. It's not cheap to replace the assembly and will result in the vast majority of the cases, postponement of the game.

- A real potential for unsporting actions between the teams. Hence, the dunking of a dead ball is considered an unsporting act an is penalized as indicated above,

If those are the true reasons for not dunking in warm-ups. Then they should ban dunking anytime, including in the games. The things you mentioned can happen in the game also. When I played in high school you were not allowed to dunk at all. But that was before break-away rims. I know I am dating myself. I personally would not like to see them ban dunking,it's a part of the game,but I don't agree with the penalty fits the infraction. I have seen the varsity REF'S walk in a half of JV games and see varsity player dunking and grabbing the rim and not do anything. By rule can they do anything once they come out for the varsity game?

afwpatfire · #**430** 03-09-17, 08:52 AM

Well it looks like dunking before a game is definitely not worth it!

AllSports12 · #**431** 03-09-17, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue60

If those are the true reasons for not dunking in warm-ups. Then they should ban dunking anytime, including in the games. The things you mentioned can happen in the game also.

In a 20 minute warmup, with very athletic teams take a stab at how many dunks you could have. Then compare it to how many dunks you actually have in a game.

The increased risk of damage along with the likelihood of unsporting acts (players trying to one-up each other) are the main reasons for this rule

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue60

but I don't agree with the penalty fits the infraction.

It's been that way since dunking was reinstated to the High School game in 1977. There hasn't been an effort to get this penalty changed or eliminated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue60

I have seen the varsity REF'S walk in a half of JV games and see varsity player dunking and grabbing the rim and not do anything. By rule can they do anything once they come out for the varsity game?

The game officials must witness the act as they are the ones who have jurisdiction. If they do see the act, they will penalize in the same manner. (this is an Ohio mandate)

kingpin2010 · #**432** 03-09-17, 01:11 PM

Thanks! To me it's an incredibly harsh penalty. I understand the logic for it and I'm ok with it being penalized, but it should be reduced imo. Maybe just 2 shots and starting with the ball. Making the coach sit and having the player start with a foul is a lot

Look Ma No Hands · #**433** 03-09-17, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingpin2010

Thanks! To me it's an incredibly harsh penalty. I understand the logic for it and I'm ok with it being penalized, but it should be reduced imo. Maybe just 2 shots and starting with the ball. Making the coach sit and having the player start with a foul is a lot

Most technical fouls are due to a spur of the moment emotional event. Emotions can run high and sometimes get the best of someone.

However, the "pre-game dunk" technical foul, IMO, is an act of stupid selfishness by the player as opposed to an emotional outburst. This is a completely controllable situation. Everyone knows the rule. Dunking in warm-ups is a thought-out pre-meditated event. No excuses. The severity of the "punishment" is irrelevant, because it is the easiest violation to avoid that there is.

fortfan · #**434** 03-10-17, 07:05 AM

They allow the pre-game dunk at Flying to the hoop. Pretty entertaining and I don't know of any problems.

AllSports12 · #**435** 03-10-17, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fortfan

They allow the pre-game dunk at Flying to the hoop.

and they shouldn't....

But, this is nothing more than a showcase and money event, totally contrary to the purpose of interscholastic athletics. Those in charge tell the officials not to enforce the rule. If they do, they won't be working the event again.

hoopstar1988 · #**436** 03-24-17, 01:02 PM

Is Roger Bacon wearing illegal tights under their uniforms? Is grey a legal color

jtk · #**437** 03-24-17, 01:49 PM

what color are their game shorts?

jtk
()

AllSports12 · #**438** 03-24-17, 03:05 PM

Can you post a picture so others will have a frame of reference when discussing this?

AllSports12 · #**439** 03-24-17, 03:08 PM

Also keep in mind that sometimes in situations like this, these decisions aren't made by the game officials.

hoopstar1988 · #**440** 03-24-17, 03:33 PM

Man you guys can spin. Is grey a legal color or what? So the rules don't apply. How does someone know when the rules apply and when they don't. Roger Bacon was home. Rules say only white for home team. Roger Bacon was in white. IS GREY A LEGAL COLOR?

USA70PP · #**441** 03-24-17, 03:36 PM

Does the color give them an advantage?

AllSports12 · #**442** 03-24-17, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopstar1988

Man you guys can spin. Is grey a legal color or what? So the rules don't apply. How does someone know when the rules apply and when they don't. Roger Bacon was home. Rules say only white for home team. Roger Bacon was in white. IS GREY A LEGAL COLOR?

No spin. Just the facts here..... (I asked for pics because there are plenty of shades to consider)

In this setting, it's not uncommon for the officials to be told something contrary to what the books tell you to do. In this case if RB is in white and is wearing grey underneath, my experience is that they were told that it is legal. (again, a lighter shade of grey would be legal anyway)

Not a big deal. You do what you are told.

hoopstar1988 · #**443** 03-25-17, 04:29 PM

Obviously Tonight, Bacon had a good deal with you last night.

AllSports12 · #**444** 03-25-17, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopstar1988

Obviously Tonight, Bacon had a good deal with you last night.

Would you care to explain?

If it's rule related, I'll respond...... If not, I'll just delete.

afwpatfire · #**445** 03-25-17, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopstar1988

Obviously Tonight, Bacon had a good deal with you last night.

Seriously, gray tights. Whew, that's a big deal.

Last time I wore gray tights, I beat Michael Jordan one on one and then Lebron, they give you a serious advantage.

I know it's a rule or whatever, but really. Maybe if they were neon green, but I still don't see how that would matter.

AllSports12 · #**446** 03-26-17, 08:40 AM

The question was asked and an answer was given. If you don't want to hear the answer. don't ask the question.

Time to move on, the subject matter regarding uniforms is closed.

Carolina Blue · #**447** 03-26-17, 09:13 AM

Did you see the intentional foul called on Moeller last night in the Div I Championship game? Moeller fans upset at the Intentional Foul. Can we get an officials view of the play? The Moeller kid sticks his chest out and drives the Jackson kid out of bounds. Your thoughts?

AllSports12 · #**448** 03-26-17, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carolina Blue

Did you see the intentional foul called on Moeller last night in the Div I Championship game? Moeller fans upset at the Intentional Foul. Can we get an officials view of the play? The Moeller kid sticks his chest out and drives the Jackson kid out of bounds. Your thoughts?

Intentional Fouls were a Point of Emphasis by the rules committee in both the 2012-13 and 2013-14 seasons. Below is the text from the POE. I bolded the areas that apply to yesterday's play.

The committee is concerned about the lack of enforcement for intentional fouls during any part of the game but especially at the end of a game.
Anytime during the game, acts that neutralize an opponent’s obvious advantageous position and must be deemed intentional include:

1. Excessive contact on any player attempting a try
2. Grabbing or shoving a player from behind when an easy basket may be scored
3. Grabbing and holding a player from behind or away from the ball

As indicated, the official attempted to talk him out of the action, to no avail.

yakyak · #**449** 03-26-17, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllSports12

Intentional Fouls were a Point of Emphasis by the rules committee in both the 2012-13 and 2013-14 seasons. Below is the text from the POE. I bolded the areas that apply to yesterday's play.

The committee is concerned about the lack of enforcement for intentional fouls during any part of the game but especially at the end of a game.
Anytime during the game, acts that neutralize an opponent’s obvious advantageous position and must be deemed intentional include:

1. Excessive contact on any player attempting a try
2. Grabbing or shoving a player from behind when an easy basket may be scored
3. Grabbing and holding a player from behind or away from the ball

As indicated, the official attempted to talk him out of the action, to no avail.

Are there any legal actions in H.S. to get a player without the ball to the foul line at end of game? For example, holding the jersey in a non agressive fashion preventing movement.

AllSports12 · #**450** 03-26-17, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yakyak

Are there any legal actions in H.S. to get a player without the ball to the foul line at end of game? For example, holding the jersey in a non agressive fashion preventing movement.

Holding the jersey should get you an intentional foul every time.