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  #571  
Old 04-30-18, 07:27 PM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Had this tonight.

On the plate, pitcher comes set and started to pick his foot up, the batter puts his back had up for time, I did not grant it. After the pitch, I said something to him that it was a little late and that's why I didn't grant it. The AB ended and between innings the player approached me very respectfully and asked that should he of said "time"? I told him it would be better if you asked for time and keep both hands on the bat. He then replied to me that an umpire told him in another game to never say "Time"....

Thoughts?
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  #572  
Old 05-01-18, 10:13 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
Had this tonight.

On the plate, pitcher comes set and started to pick his foot up, the batter puts his back had up for time, I did not grant it. After the pitch, I said something to him that it was a little late and that's why I didn't grant it. The AB ended and between innings the player approached me very respectfully and asked that should he of said "time"? I told him it would be better if you asked for time and keep both hands on the bat. He then replied to me that an umpire told him in another game to never say "Time"....

Thoughts?
A request for time is a request for time, verbal or visual.

If you denied the visual request, then you had the same justification for denying the verbal request.
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  #573  
Old 05-01-18, 11:56 AM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
A request for time is a request for time, verbal or visual.

If you denied the visual request, then you had the same justification for denying the verbal request.
Very true.

I just didn't understand why a kid would be told don't say "Time". As a coach, I told my kids to ask for it, but be prepared to receive a pitch if not granted. That was why I said what I said to the kid.
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  #574  
Old 05-02-18, 08:12 AM
reggieDunlop reggieDunlop is offline
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Runners on 2nd and 3rd with 1 out, the batter moves up in the box as the pitcher is throwing fairly slow. Batter doubles to left field scoring both runs, but his front foot clearly is out of the box and he leaves an obvious divot in the dirt. Opposing coach comes out and points out the divot to the ump who then calls the batter out and returns the runners to their bases. Correct call? I'm thinking that if the ump saw the batter out of the box then he would call a dead ball and call him out right away instead of letting the play continue.
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  #575  
Old 05-02-18, 09:52 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reggieDunlop View Post
Runners on 2nd and 3rd with 1 out, the batter moves up in the box as the pitcher is throwing fairly slow. Batter doubles to left field scoring both runs, but his front foot clearly is out of the box and he leaves an obvious divot in the dirt. Opposing coach comes out and points out the divot to the ump who then calls the batter out and returns the runners to their bases. Correct call? I'm thinking that if the ump saw the batter out of the box then he would call a dead ball and call him out right away instead of letting the play continue.

Rule 7 Section 3 -- "A Batter Shall Not"


ART. 2 . . .
"Hit the ball fair or foul while either foot or knee is touching the
ground completely outside the lines of the batter’s box or touching home plate."


If the umpire saw the infraction, he should have declared the ball dead immediately, announced that the batter was out, and ordered any runner to return to the base occupied at the time of the pitch.

The key here is not the divot, but when he hit the ball was his foot in that spot where the divot was..... (he could have contacted the ball while his foot was in the air.... while not likely, it is possible)

Now, without being there, we cannot rule out the possibly that the umpire did see this happen, but failed to properly rule the ball dead immediately when it happened. If that's the case, then it is permissible for him to properly rule the batter out and return the runners......

If it's a game I'm working, the presence of the divot is simply not enough evidence to make this call retroactively. (how do I know that divot was made by that batter?)
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  #576  
Old 05-03-18, 06:23 AM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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What are some of the signals used by umpires among themselves to let their partner know that they thought the call they made was a good one? For example, a bang-bang play at first, a few moments later once the base umpire looks back into the plate umpire, the plate umpire might signal back to him letting him know he thought it was a good call... I have been taught to make two fists and bump your knuckles together... are there others?
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  #577  
Old 05-03-18, 06:37 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
What are some of the signals used by umpires among themselves to let their partner know that they thought the call they made was a good one? For example, a bang-bang play at first, a few moments later once the base umpire looks back into the plate umpire, the plate umpire might signal back to him letting him know he thought it was a good call... I have been taught to make two fists and bump your knuckles together... are there others?
Two fists, pounding one on top of the other is used as well.

Typically done when all the action is done and the pitcher his about to step back onto the pitching plate. (eye contact should be made with your partner at that time to make sure he/she's ready to go as well)
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  #578  
Old 05-03-18, 07:05 AM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Two fists, pounding one on top of the other is used as well.

Typically done when all the action is done and the pitcher his about to step back onto the pitching plate. (eye contact should be made with your partner at that time to make sure he/she's ready to go as well)
Thanks.

These are some of the little details I enjoy looking for when I watch games, especially at the higher level. Also some of the small communication that goes on between players such as the SS and 2B communicating with their mouths behind the glove on who has the base on a potential steal, etc...

I also like when a catcher has been coached properly to take a walk out to the pitcher when the plate umpire gets hit with the ball. I also will walk a ball out to the pitcher if the catcher takes a bad hit with the ball as well... Little things like that I just think add to the game and not many fans notice (Which is ok)
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  #579  
Old 05-07-18, 11:12 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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A couple questions about tagging up:

Situation #1:

0 Outs/Runners on 2nd and 3rd.

Popup to the outfield, nice catch for the first out. Runner from 3rd never tags up and crosses home plate. Runner from 2nd does tag up and also crosses home plate. Ball is still in play and the defense steps on 3rd for the 2nd out.

Would the runner from 2nd be called out for "passing" the runner at 3rd because the runner at 3rd never tagged up?


Situation #1:

1 Out/Runners on 2nd and 3rd.

Popup to the outfield, nice catch for the 2nd out. Runner from 3rd never tags up and crosses home plate. Runner from 2nd does tag up and also crosses home plate. Ball is still in play and the defense steps on 3rd for the 3rd out (after both crossed plate).

Does the run count (for the runner that started at 2nd)?
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  #580  
Old 05-08-18, 08:05 AM
AirAttack19 AirAttack19 is offline
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Situation :

A team hits for its center fielder in the 5th inning - then renters him into the game to play left field (perfectly within the rules). Game goes to extras. The same team then hits for the same player again in the top of the 8th (meaning his is scratched from the card) - sed team goes up by one run in the top of 8th. Going back onto the field for the bottom half of the inning - they send (what was their best defensive outfielder) the same kid who was (supposed to be) scratched back out to CF to play defense.

How is the rule "enforced" ? What can/should the umpire do in this situation? He hasn't re-entered illegally at the plate - so he wouldn't cost his team an out. Can the umpire merely make him come off the field?

If this is the case - wouldn't you see every coach trying to play the "whoops" card and put their best defenders back on the field even if they are scratched? What is the worst that could happen ? The ump makes that player leave the field of play?
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  #581  
Old 05-08-18, 08:50 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirAttack19 View Post
Situation :

A team hits for its center fielder in the 5th inning - then renters him into the game to play left field (perfectly within the rules). Game goes to extras. The same team then hits for the same player again in the top of the 8th (meaning his is scratched from the card) - sed team goes up by one run in the top of 8th. Going back onto the field for the bottom half of the inning - they send (what was their best defensive outfielder) the same kid who was (supposed to be) scratched back out to CF to play defense.

How is the rule "enforced" ? What can/should the umpire do in this situation? He hasn't re-entered illegally at the plate - so he wouldn't cost his team an out. Can the umpire merely make him come off the field?

If this is the case - wouldn't you see every coach trying to play the "whoops" card and put their best defenders back on the field even if they are scratched? What is the worst that could happen ? The ump makes that player leave the field of play?
If an illegal substitute is discovered while on defense, he is restricted to the dugout for the remainder of the game. If discovered on offense, he is declared out and restricted to the dugout for the remainder of the game.

Many leagues and state associations require umpires to file game reports should someone be restricted to the dugout. At that [point, is't on the governing bodies to assess whether or not a coach is trying to do something underhanded.

I've seen this happen once in my career. it was an honest mistake caused by miscommunication between the coaches.

Last edited by AllSports12; 05-08-18 at 09:06 AM.
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  #582  
Old 05-08-18, 09:00 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
A couple questions about tagging up:

Situation #1:

0 Outs/Runners on 2nd and 3rd.

Popup to the outfield, nice catch for the first out. Runner from 3rd never tags up and crosses home plate. Runner from 2nd does tag up and also crosses home plate. Ball is still in play and the defense steps on 3rd for the 2nd out.

Would the runner from 2nd be called out for "passing" the runner at 3rd because the runner at 3rd never tagged up?
No

Passing the runner is a physical and actual act that causes the runner to be declared out immediately. The ball remains live throughout the completion of play.

This rule is in place to prevent confusion for the defense (who do I tag?)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
Situation #1:

1 Out/Runners on 2nd and 3rd.

Popup to the outfield, nice catch for the 2nd out. Runner from 3rd never tags up and crosses home plate. Runner from 2nd does tag up and also crosses home plate. Ball is still in play and the defense steps on 3rd for the 3rd out (after both crossed plate).

Does the run count (for the runner that started at 2nd)?
No

The appeal on the runner from third creates a "time play".

If that appeal is the third out on a preceding runner, no runs scored behind that runner declared out can count.

( that a fast runner scoring from 2nd on this play )
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  #583  
Old 05-08-18, 10:58 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
No

Passing the runner is a physical and actual act that causes the runner to be declared out immediately. The ball remains live throughout the completion of play.

This rule is in place to prevent confusion for the defense (who do I tag?)




No

The appeal on the runner from third creates a "time play".

If that appeal is the third out on a preceding runner, no runs scored behind that runner declared out can count.

( that a fast runner scoring from 2nd on this play )
Great info.
What if the runner on 3rd tagged and scored but the one from 2nd did not. Runner scores before the appeal.
Run count?

Same scenario but the runner on second was ruled out by throwing to second......guy on 3rd scores before tagging the runner or bag form the runner on 2nd
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  #584  
Old 05-08-18, 11:44 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
Great info.
What if the runner on 3rd tagged and scored but the one from 2nd did not. Runner scores before the appeal.
Run count?
Yes, the run counts. in your scenario the succeeding runner was the third out. It's still a time play, but since the runner from third scored before the third out was recorded (via appeal) the run counts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
Same scenario but the runner on second was ruled out by throwing to second......guy on 3rd scores before tagging the runner or bag form the runner on 2nd

Time Play

Third out recorded after the runner had crossed the plate.



Now, we cannot forget that if the third out is recorded via a force play or it is recorded on the batter-runner before he legally reaches first base....

......then no runs can score on the play.


Hope that helps
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  #585  
Old 05-08-18, 12:54 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Yes, the run counts. in your scenario the succeeding runner was the third out. It's still a time play, but since the runner from third scored before the third out was recorded (via appeal) the run counts.




Time Play

Third out recorded after the runner had crossed the plate.



Now, we cannot forget that if the third out is recorded via a force play or it is recorded on the batter-runner before he legally reaches first base....

......then no runs can score on the play.


Hope that helps
Perfect. Thanks. So we just need to remember it's it's time play. Does not happen often son always good for everyone to brush up on it.
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  #586  
Old 05-08-18, 01:21 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
Perfect. Thanks. So we just need to remember it's it's time play. Does not happen often son always good for everyone to brush up on it.
One final thing on this.....

Say the runner from third tags and advances home, but the Runner from Second forgets how many outs there are and begins to advance towards third when he realizes he needs to get back.... The runner from third scores as the outfielder throws the ball towards second base in order to retire that returning runner, which happens as the ball beats the runner to the base......

Many will claim (incorrectly) that this out at 2nd base is a force out, therefore negating the run as described in a prior post. In actuality the play at second is also a time play. (runner is not forced to return to a base he already legally occupies) While the putout is execute in the same manner as a force out, this is a time play and the run counts as the preceding runner scored before that third out was recorded.

Clear as mud, eh??
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  #587  
Old 05-08-18, 02:11 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
One final thing on this.....

Say the runner from third tags and advances home, but the Runner from Second forgets how many outs there are and begins to advance towards third when he realizes he needs to get back.... The runner from third scores as the outfielder throws the ball towards second base in order to retire that returning runner, which happens as the ball beats the runner to the base......

Many will claim (incorrectly) that this out at 2nd base is a force out, therefore negating the run as described in a prior post. In actuality the play at second is also a time play. (runner is not forced to return to a base he already legally occupies) While the putout is execute in the same manner as a force out, this is a time play and the run counts as the preceding runner scored before that third out was recorded.

Clear as mud, eh??
Actually very clear!
Great info.
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  #588  
Old 05-10-18, 10:46 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Mets had an issue yesterday we don't see often. Batting out of order!
Lineup card given to ump was wrong!
The person who did not bat in the right spot gets ruled out, not the actual batter and was recorded as an 2U. And the next inning he did not bat as he had to wait until his spot came up again.

Correct all sports? Related question.....does tho coach need to wait until the at bat is order to bring it up to the ump or can it be Done after 1 pitch?
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  #589  
Old 05-10-18, 10:54 AM
mykids1fan mykids1fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
Mets had an issue yesterday we don't see often. Batting out of order!
Lineup card given to ump was wrong!
The person who did not bat in the right spot gets ruled out, not the actual batter and was recorded as an 2U. And the next inning he did not bat as he had to wait until his spot came up again.

Correct all sports? Related question.....does tho coach need to wait until the at bat is order to bring it up to the ump or can it be Done after 1 pitch?
If the either coach catches the mistake during the at-bat, the correct batter can be sent to the plate and inherit the count of the batter. I believe.
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  #590  
Old 05-10-18, 12:08 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
Mets had an issue yesterday we don't see often. Batting out of order!
Lineup card given to ump was wrong!
The person who did not bat in the right spot gets ruled out, not the actual batter and was recorded as an 2U. And the next inning he did not bat as he had to wait until his spot came up again.

Correct all sports? Related question.....does tho coach need to wait until the at bat is order to bring it up to the ump or can it be Done after 1 pitch?
Who batted out of order, when they did, what they did at bat, and when it was discovered all created different outcomes..... ( everyone still think our job is easy? )

Speaking to what happened yesterday, the batter who batted out of order doubled, the opposing manager brought it to the attention of the umpires and they acted properly in....

- removing the player who doubled from second base
- declaring the proper batter out.

Since the proper batter was the third out, the next inning begins with the batter after that proper batter leading off.....

Had there been only one out, the batter who doubled would have been removed from the base, the proper batter would have been ruled out for the second out, and the next batter after the proper batter (who wa just ruled out) would take his correct place in the batter's box....


As far as when the manager can or should notify the umpire...... the outcome can be different depending on the timing of each....

One thing is very clear in this........ the umpires are never to initiate an appeal of a batter batting out of order.
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  #591  
Old 05-11-18, 12:05 PM
Tarheel2336 Tarheel2336 is offline
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Situation that happened yesterday....

Ball bunted down first base line and catcher lets the ball roll foul just over the foul line and puts his glove on it. However, while doing so, he blocks the plate umpires view of the ball and even though everyone else in the park so the ball was foul the umpire called it fair (I assume it was because it was where he last saw the ball). It was not appealed to base umpire as he was between the mound and second base at the time. Is this the correct call?
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  #592  
Old 05-11-18, 12:10 PM
AnUnbiasedOpinion AnUnbiasedOpinion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarheel2336 View Post
Situation that happened yesterday....

Ball bunted down first base line and catcher lets the ball roll foul just over the foul line and puts his glove on it. However, while doing so, he blocks the plate umpires view of the ball and even though everyone else in the park so the ball was foul the umpire called it fair (I assume it was because it was where he last saw the ball). It was not appealed to base umpire as he was between the mound and second base at the time. Is this the correct call?
10.1.4 . . . Any umpire’s decision which involves judgment, such as whether a hit is fair
or foul
, whether a pitch is a strike or a ball, or whether a runner is safe or out, is final. But if
there is reasonable doubt about some decision being in conflict with the rules, the coach or
captain may ask that the correct ruling be made. The umpire making the decision may ask
another umpire for information before making a final decision. ...
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  #593  
Old 05-11-18, 11:17 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarheel2336 View Post
Situation that happened yesterday....

Ball bunted down first base line and catcher lets the ball roll foul just over the foul line and puts his glove on it. However, while doing so, he blocks the plate umpires view of the ball and even though everyone else in the park so the ball was foul the umpire called it fair (I assume it was because it was where he last saw the ball). It was not appealed to base umpire as he was between the mound and second base at the time. Is this the correct call?
Per the mechanics, the plate umpire has fair/foul from the plate all the way to first/third base. If there is no base umpire at first or third base, the plate umpire takes fair/foul all the way down the line as well.

If the base umpire is in "B" (i.e. between the mound and 2B) -- and not "A" (i.e. behind 1B just in foul territory) -- there is no umpire available to credibly ask for help from.
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  #594  
Old 05-12-18, 07:22 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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If unsure, like this situation, an umpire should always rule "fair"... here's why....

Once a live ball is declared "foul", the ball becomes dead and it is foul. There's no undoing this call. (even of the ball was 10 feet fair)

However, if declared "fair" play continues until the ball becomes dead and now the umpires can confer. If a partner(s) determine that they are 100% (see bucksman's reference) certain that the correct call was "foul", then the call can be changed, we add a strike to the count, (or keep it at strike two) return runners to their bases at the time of the pitch, and move on. ( not without some grief from the offense, however... )
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  #595  
Old 05-17-18, 10:54 AM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Mechanic question.

Ball is hit slowly to the !B side of the pitcher. He races over and gets it and decides to try and tag the runner as he is heading to 1B. As he gets closer to the runner, the runner goes outside of the 3ft baseline that starts at 45' and the pitcher misses the tag and the runner gets to 1B safely.

Question I have is, who calls the runner out of the baseline and who is responsible for making the call? When should it be made because I believe the ball is still live if other runners are on base.
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  #596  
Old 05-17-18, 10:56 AM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Mechanic question #2.

When working the plate, it is suggested the call "Ball" if it's a ball. What are some guidelines for this? Sometimes there are obvious pitches that everyone at the game knows is a ball. Should it just be the ones that are close?
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  #597  
Old 05-17-18, 07:51 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
Mechanic question #2.

When working the plate, it is suggested the call "Ball" if it's a ball. What are some guidelines for this? Sometimes there are obvious pitches that everyone at the game knows is a ball. Should it just be the ones that are close?
Per the blue book that the state director of development published, every (ball) should be called so the pitcher, catcher, and batter can hear it. There are certain play-related reasons for this. On strikes, call and/or signal as appropriate.
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  #598  
Old 05-18-18, 06:46 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
Mechanic question.

Ball is hit slowly to the !B side of the pitcher. He races over and gets it and decides to try and tag the runner as he is heading to 1B. As he gets closer to the runner, the runner goes outside of the 3ft baseline that starts at 45' and the pitcher misses the tag and the runner gets to 1B safely.

Question I have is, who calls the runner out of the baseline and who is responsible for making the call? When should it be made because I believe the ball is still live if other runners are on base.
Any violation of the 45 ft running lane (not referred to as a 3ft baseline) is the responsibility of the Plate Umpire. However that's not what's at issue here.

The Plate Umpire will have the responsibility of the runner up to the beginning of the 45 ft running lane. The Base Umpire has the runner from that point all the way to the base. (the Plate Umpire shall still observe the action in the rare event the Base Umpire asks for help).

If the runner leaves his 3 established base line for the purpose of avoiding a play being made on him, he is declared out immediately with a verbal "he's out of the base line" accompanied with a point at the runner with the left hand and the traditional "out" signal with the right hand. A two-handed sweeping motion to the left or right that signifies his violation would suffice as well in order to help communicate the runner's violation.

After the play is over, you may have to again point at the runner and declare him out. The ball remains live throughout this play.
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  #599  
Old 05-18-18, 06:53 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
Mechanic question #2.

When working the plate, it is suggested the call "Ball" if it's a ball. What are some guidelines for this? Sometimes there are obvious pitches that everyone at the game knows is a ball. Should it just be the ones that are close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksman View Post
Per the blue book that the state director of development published, every (ball) should be called so the pitcher, catcher, and batter can hear it. There are certain play-related reasons for this. On strikes, call and/or signal as appropriate.
As bucksman indicated, all pitches should be announced. The pitch that airmails everyone and hits the screen should be announced in the same tone as the pitch just off the plate.

The only change in your voice on a called pitch would be on a called strike three. Do not emphasize the call on any other pitch.
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Old 05-18-18, 09:44 PM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Thank you guys ^^^^^

Here is something from tonight that had me thinking.

I had a Summer League game tonight at a park where the backstops are pretty close which is common. At times a foul ball would come from the other field and we would call time and retrieve the ball.

Here is what I am wondering and never had this happen, but I know the day is coming.

- Umpiring a game and as a ball is put into play during our game, a foul ball from the other field lands in play at the same time. I am going to think we play the play through and when the action stops, call time and get the other ball out of play?
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