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  #61  
Old 07-04-18, 05:53 AM
Raymo Raymo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom 48 View Post
Now the Cavs can play team basketball. As good as James is, if you are on his team, you don't play WITH LeBron, you play FOR LeBron.
Won't miss this at all,ditch his pals and lets move on...BAM!
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  #62  
Old 07-04-18, 06:17 AM
joesports joesports is offline
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Originally Posted by y2h View Post
Except that sounds like exactly what the organization wants to do... scratch out a 7 or 8 seed for vanity.
Good for them ... I guess it is the old man in me that canít stand the idea of not trying to win ... the Browns over the past several years have driven me crazy.

I also think we have different view of where the Cavs could end up ... I feel you guys want all or nothing ... setting your sites on NBA Championship or bust ... like Philly and Sacramento ... I want to see, as a mid market team, a model like Indiana or Utah ... or if your good at it (and lucky) and you end up like San Antonio.

I understand that by tanking gives you a better chance at landing a superstar ... it is an easier (quicker) route ... I just donít like that style of basketball ... one guy gets the ball and the other 4 just gets the hell out of the way ... I like more team basketball ... watching San Antonio play was, to me, way more entertaining ... I would like nothing more to see the Cavs develop their young players and play a more team oriented style of basketball this year ... if that means they win 40 games and either just miss the playoffs or the get beat in the first round ... so be it. It is just a difference in perspectives.
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  #63  
Old 07-04-18, 07:04 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joesports View Post
Sacramento fans would love to be mediocre ... or have Indiana or Utahís record over the last ten years.
Sacramento has the most inept organization in all of professional sports, other than maybe the Browns. What do they have to do with Clevelandís strategy for improving the roster?
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  #64  
Old 07-04-18, 07:18 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by arnie palmer View Post
Heard this morning on the radio that our draft pick is only Top 10 protected next year. If we do not go full tank mode, we loose our pick.

We need to go Full Tank Mode and trade anything anyone wants besides the young guys and start over.
Correct.

See: Danny Ainge model. Tanking isn't required if you can evaluate young basketball talent.


"Full Tank Mode", here we come!!!
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  #65  
Old 07-04-18, 07:20 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Over the next two years? That's a little pessimistic, brian. I think they can easily get 60-70.
He's humping Collin Sexton like a Tennessee Leg Hound. Ignore the 1227.
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  #66  
Old 07-04-18, 07:23 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by y2h View Post
The worst place to be in the NBA is a 6-8 seed...not a contender but too good for the lottery.


In a sport that maybe more than any other it is paramount to pick as high as possible that isn't good.

The Cavs have never attracted prime superstars in FA so it is imperative they add quality talent in the draft.
This is why the NBA Draft protocol is absurd. Lottery picks need to be based upon actual records, not playoff participation.
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  #67  
Old 07-04-18, 07:53 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Seriously, though, trading away established players and tanking for future picks go hand in hand, right ?

Tanking isn't needed if you have top-notch talent evaluators and great coaching - both developmentally and strategically great - right ?

So, we only have a few solidly tradeable vets left. Do I really need to comment on our front office and coaching ?

Maybe trade-and-tank, with Sexton, Hill, Nance, Cedi, et al can develop some youth while accumulating picks ? https://www.fearthesword.com/2018/7/...-league-roster

Sit on TT 'til he's expiring, try to fix Clarkson's head so he can also be of some value as an expiring, enjoy Korver and let him model professionalism, same for George Hill, but trade away who you can for future picks.

Maybe in a year or two they can have enough solid youth and picks to attract a talented staff.

Then f__ing pay them.
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  #68  
Old 07-05-18, 07:27 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joesports View Post

I understand that by tanking gives you a better chance at landing a superstar ... it is an easier (quicker) route ... I just donít like that style of basketball ... one guy gets the ball and the other 4 just gets the hell out of the way ... I like more team basketball ... watching San Antonio play was, to me, way more entertaining ... I would like nothing more to see the Cavs develop their young players and play a more team oriented style of basketball this year ... if that means they win 40 games and either just miss the playoffs or the get beat in the first round ... so be it. It is just a difference in perspectives.
FWIW, that's not how all super stars work. Very few operate that way.
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  #69  
Old 07-05-18, 08:45 AM
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Auggie Auggie is offline
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  #70  
Old 07-05-18, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
Good for them ... I guess it is the old man in me that canít stand the idea of not trying to win ... the Browns over the past several years have driven me crazy.
Because the front office swung and missed on so many high draft choices. Accepting the start-from-scratch method had some merit, given the state of the Browns' roster. But to purge it completely of veteran presence and gagging on the draft made the Browns the dregs of the NFL.

I'm not predicting a miraculous turnaround, but look at what John Dorsey and his front office associates have done in six months. It really didn't have to be as pathetic as it turned out. Credit Sashi Brown for stacking up draft picks and cap space, but his use of those assets was pitiful and the results of the effort of Brown and his Ivy League nerds were all too evident on the field.
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  #71  
Old 07-05-18, 12:05 PM
joesports joesports is offline
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I guess I’m having trouble getting people to understand what I am saying ... I don’t think you need to take it down to the studs completely and try to not to win or win less than 20 games, thus tank .... what you can do is make your priority development of younger players (Sexton, Osman, Zizic, Hood, Nance, and maybe Clarkston), limit your veterans (Love, Hill, Thompson, and Korver) and use them to help develop your young players until if and when a good deal comes along, be smart with your cap space so when a deal comes along that you can gain major assets (picks or good young players) you are ready to pounce ... to me this is rebuilding ... couple this with good coaching & scouting and you don’t need to win only 20 games for each of the next 3 or 4 seasons.

PS ... notice I did not include JR ... get rid of this cancer, he gives nothing to this team now
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  #72  
Old 07-06-18, 06:56 AM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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They are trying to move Korver and Hill. Shouldn’t be too difficult to get a deal done for Korver, but moving Hill’s 19 million may be impossible. Will probably have to buy him out
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  #73  
Old 07-06-18, 07:19 AM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Read something this morning that the Lakers have an interest in trading for Love.
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  #74  
Old 07-06-18, 08:39 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by y2h View Post
His favorite era was the Fratello era
lol

Doesnít Fratello still live in Bratenhal ? The era never really ended!!
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  #75  
Old 07-06-18, 08:48 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
Sacramento fans would love to be mediocre ... or have Indiana or Utahís record over the last ten years.
Hard to enjoy the moribund experience of attending the arena of a team in ďfull tank modeĒ. This team is not really part of the business model of Gilbert, Inc. Itís a hobby. How is young Nick Gilbertís health these days ?

Much has been made of LeBronís departure to LA as a lifestyle choice, and rightfully so. Maybe not tanking is also a lifestyle choice ?
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  #76  
Old 07-06-18, 09:11 AM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
They are trying to move Korver and Hill. Shouldnít be too difficult to get a deal done for Korver, but moving Hillís 19 million may be impossible. Will probably have to buy him out
George Hill should be the designated mentor for Sexton for a year. Sometime next off-season he has a contractual date where he can be bought out/cut for 20% or less of his currently large salary.

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  #77  
Old 07-06-18, 11:03 AM
joesports joesports is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
George Hill should be the designated mentor for Sexton for a year. Sometime next off-season he has a contractual date where he can be bought out/cut for 20% or less of his currently large salary.

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One of the mistakes the Browns made was getting rid of all veteran presence ... they had no role models on how to be a professional ... IMO the Cavs should go to these guys and explain their role to them and promise them if a good deal comes along for both you & them, you will make it ... both of these guys could help the youngsters on becoming a true pro ... then trade them (& Love) at the trade deadline.
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  #78  
Old 07-06-18, 11:13 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
George Hill should be the designated mentor for Sexton for a year. Sometime next off-season he has a contractual date where he can be bought out/cut for 20% or less of his currently large salary.

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I agree.

Obviously different sports, but look at Dorseyís development model for Baker Mayfield. Hill=Tyrod Taylor, Lue=Drew Stanton.
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  #79  
Old 07-06-18, 08:48 PM
joesports joesports is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
George Hill should be the designated mentor for Sexton for a year. Sometime next off-season he has a contractual date where he can be bought out/cut for 20% or less of his currently large salary.

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Actually, keep him this year for 18M ... next year his contract can be bought out for 1M ... some team will pay a good deal for an 18M contract that can be bought out for 1M ... trade him then.
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  #80  
Old 07-11-18, 12:36 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Cedi, Zizic, and Sexton all looking good through three games in Summer League
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  #81  
Old 07-11-18, 03:26 PM
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Love will be 25 / 12 guy and a solid all-star. I don't know contract statuses, but Love, Nance, Hood, Clarkson, Cedi, TT, Sexton, Korver, Hill is an average NBA roster and wins 38-42 in the East. No reason to go full belly-up and make your fans miserable.
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  #82  
Old 07-12-18, 07:17 AM
Raymo Raymo is offline
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
Love will be 25 / 12 guy and a solid all-star. I don't know contract statuses, but Love, Nance, Hood, Clarkson, Cedi, TT, Sexton, Korver, Hill is an average NBA roster and wins 38-42 in the East. No reason to go full belly-up and make your fans miserable.
May not have Hood,and Lue must start teaching better.
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  #83  
Old 07-12-18, 12:30 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
Love will be 25 / 12 guy and a solid all-star. I don't know contract statuses, but Love, Nance, Hood, Clarkson, Cedi, TT, Sexton, Korver, Hill is an average NBA roster and wins 38-42 in the East. No reason to go full belly-up and make your fans miserable.
Problem is, if they win 38 games they lose their first round pick. They don't have to go full belly-up but there is no reason to hold onto Korver and Love if you can get promising young guys or picks in return.

I don't hate the strategy of letting Love rack up numbers for a few months before dealing him.

Sexton with an efficient 25 last night in summer ball, by the way
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  #84  
Old 07-12-18, 09:07 PM
OhioBobcatFan06 OhioBobcatFan06 is offline
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Originally Posted by y2h View Post
Low playoff seed, unless you are a young team on the way up, is NBA hell. Too good for the lottery, too bad to actually be a contender. Just spinning your wheels.

Then you suggest putting off tanking for two years? Why prolong the misery?
We put off tanking this season. One year. Tank the following season.

Playoffs this year aren't "misery" it keeps people interested. 29 teams in the NBA are playing for 2nd place this year as it is.

No reason for Dan Gilbert NOT to do this. We aren't getting much for Love anyway. Danny G may as well act like they are trying this year, ride Loves to the playoffs and bank some Casino earnings.

Tank next year. Better draft class anyway.
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  #85  
Old 07-12-18, 09:09 PM
OhioBobcatFan06 OhioBobcatFan06 is offline
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The old guys we have on contract this year have no value. We can't get rid of them for anything. Yet they're good enough to win some games. Danny G has no choice. He isn't gonna go Major League and bench all the good guys. Too many people already hate him.

Accept it. We're going for the playoffs this year.
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  #86  
Old 07-12-18, 09:13 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Fans are going to hate him if we're consistently seeing a mediocre product with Hill, J.R., etc. on the floor with Sexton and Cedi riding the pine.

I try to not put a whole lot of stock in summer league, but both of those guys have been really good. IIRC Sexton is the leading scorer in Vegas so far.

The Cavs' response when somebody like the Kings or Pelicans offer a huge deal to Hood will say what the franchise plans on doing this year. Not matching for a quality young player would be a clear tank move.

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  #87  
Old 07-12-18, 09:17 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Auggie View Post
where is Dukakis ?













fire Coach Lue, hire Coach Dukakis. Tanking:Accomplished.
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  #88  
Old 07-14-18, 01:43 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Channing Frye is coming back on a one year deal for the veteran's minimum.

If they could get Richard Jefferson back while getting rid of JR, the veteran presence in the locker room would be about as ideal as one could hope for when you're in rebuild/reload mode.

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  #89  
Old 07-14-18, 02:08 PM
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Cavs are not rebuilding, competing to get to the finals.
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  #90  
Old 07-14-18, 07:19 PM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
Channing Frye is coming back on a one year deal for the veteran's minimum.

If they could get Richard Jefferson back while getting rid of JR, the veteran presence in the locker room would be about as ideal as one could hope for when you're in rebuild/reload mode.

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...and they'd get the senior citizen discount and save on their per diems.
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