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  #1  
Old 02-16-19, 11:12 AM
radiodaveagain radiodaveagain is offline
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A Better Idea For The OHSAA State Football Playoffs

A Better Idea For The OHSAA State Football Playoffs
https://statelinesportsnetwork.net/2...tball-playoffs
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Old 02-16-19, 11:51 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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I went to the state finals for over 20 years, but I didn't go this year. They have become more expensive and less fan-friendly, and I just got tired of the long drive and sitting in bad weather for two days. I would enjoy going to one game closer to home though.

I think that total attendance would go up. If the games were held at a neutral site about midway I think at least as many fans of the teams would go. Maybe few team fans went because the game was a the Horseshoe. Nobody cares that the games are next to the Hall of Fame.

There are not very many people that go to all the games. I know because we know where that crowd sits and we see the same see the same people every year. I think more fans of HS football would attend the 7 final games if the are promoted correctly.

The truth is that the OHSAA likes to have a showcase event. I don't see them splitting up the games.
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  #3  
Old 02-16-19, 12:20 PM
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It's not a new idea, and in my opinion not a better idea.

The state is small enough that this is not a big issue.
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Old 02-16-19, 01:01 PM
my2sense my2sense is offline
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Canton has proven time and again they want the games and they are very good at hosting. The coming additions to the HOF Village make it even more attractive. The state finals are not a traveling circus show. They are a main event and need a top location. If people can't get in a car and drive a little while, so be it.
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Old 02-16-19, 01:37 PM
JJBulldog JJBulldog is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
I went to the state finals for over 20 years, but I didn't go this year. They have become more expensive and less fan-friendly, and I just got tired of the long drive and sitting in bad weather for two days. I would enjoy going to one game closer to home though.

I think that total attendance would go up. If the games were held at a neutral site about midway I think at least as many fans of the teams would go. Maybe few team fans went because the game was a the Horseshoe. Nobody cares that the games are next to the Hall of Fame.

There are not very many people that go to all the games. I know because we know where that crowd sits and we see the same see the same people every year. I think more fans of HS football would attend the 7 final games if the are promoted correctly.

The truth is that the OHSAA likes to have a showcase event. I don't see them splitting up the games.
Why aren't the games split between Canton and Massillon as in the past? Then many could go back and forth and see all of the games.
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Old 02-16-19, 02:09 PM
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Why aren't the games split between Canton and Massillon as in the past? Then many could go back and forth and see all of the games. Maybe Massillon's old stadium is no longer structurally sound, i don't know.
The OHSAA got spoiled with the press box at Fawcett and now with the Benson. The home side press box at PBTS is not large enough. Two sites also place an additional strain on the TV broadcaster to wire up 2 locations.
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Old 02-16-19, 03:06 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Fortunate enough that my alma matre has been very successful in two sports.

In football, the STATE SEMIFINAL game does not have the same feel as a STATE SEMIFINAL in the other sports.

The reason?

A nondescript location in between the schools.

The state semi finals in baseball (and other sports) have the feel of a big, state semi final game because it is held at the big time location.

The state finals will always have a great feel, but if you move that state football championship to the locations in the article, or some other nondescript location it just would not have the same feel in my opinion.

I have been a proponent of having in in Columbus, but if the alternative is Canton or the example DS is promoting I would vote for Canton all day long.
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Old 02-16-19, 03:38 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJBulldog View Post
Why aren't the games split between Canton and Massillon as in the past?
I don't know.


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Originally Posted by JJBulldog View Post
Then many could go back and forth and see all of the games.
Yes, but you see all the games in one place now.
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  #9  
Old 02-16-19, 03:42 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by my2sense View Post
The coming additions to the HOF Village make it even more attractive.
I predict that not one more ticket will be sold because of the HOF Village. It is a nice stadium though.

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Originally Posted by my2sense View Post
The state finals are not a traveling circus show. They are a main event and need a top location. If people can't get in a car and drive a little while, so be it.
In other words, the games deserve a top location and if the fans don't go too bad.

That seems wrong.

Like I said, we went to the finals for 23 years but didn't go last year. Having them all in Canton is not a bad idea, and I may go again in the future.
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  #10  
Old 02-16-19, 03:48 PM
Sykotyk Sykotyk is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
I don't know.
Massillon didn't include themselves in the bid the last go around.

Quote:
Yes, but you see all the games in one place now.
But the OHSAA switched from 11-3-7 for start times to 10-3-8 to make sure they can clear out the stadium between games and add more time to the day.

There's states that have four games in one day at one site and kickoff at 10 and have the 4th game kicking off at 7-7:30. But they charge one admission for all day and fans can stay as long as they want on one ticket. OHSAA wants to make sure they get $15 from each fan for each game.


Quote:
Massillon Washington still play all their home games there.
Still a great stadium. But Canton wanted all 7, and Massillon didn't want to be included in the bid after Columbus got them.
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  #11  
Old 02-16-19, 04:04 PM
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I think there are 2 major issues that need to be addressed:

1. Attendance continues to decrease at the state finals in Canton.

2. The ignorance of some people who think that Canton is the only place that can hold the state finals and that somehow attendance will suddenly increase starting with next season.

By holding them in Canton, you alienate at least two groups of people from attending. First of all, if I have a 16-17 year old high school student who is from Cinci or Dayton, I am not going to allow him to hop in the family car and take 3 other HS students with him to Canton for the weekend. Columbus is much closer and they could return home each night. Multiply that car load of kids by any number you want and you have a substantial # of people not attending.

You also eliminate an older generation (55 on up) of fans who would like to go, but physically cannot drive 3-1/2 to 4 hours one way and then attend games all day long. Thus you lose out on a large segment of the population. We used to attend the finals every year---in both football and basketball. We still go to the basketball finals at the Schott, but have not been to Canton for about 6 years. In Columbus, there is a great deal of parking, lots of shops and great restaurants available within a short drive or walking distance, and plenty of other things to do if you want to pass on a game. In Canton there is the HOF. We can also be in Columbus in an hour and a half--and could drive home every evening if we choose to do so.

If you choose to ignore the two demographics I mentioned, then it seems you will continue to struggle with attendance. A positive that may come out of this is you may be able to hold the finals at North Canton Middle School in the near future.

By the way, understanding your customer is taught in Marketing 101. Some of you must have been absent that day.
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  #12  
Old 02-16-19, 04:23 PM
doubtme doubtme is offline
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i think what gets overlooked here is that the feedback from players was great. its about them anyway, not whether you want to drive 3-4 hours to watch them live.
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  #13  
Old 02-16-19, 06:18 PM
tom 48 tom 48 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salesman View Post
I think there are 2 major issues that need to be addressed:

1. Attendance continues to decrease at the state finals in Canton.

2. The ignorance of some people who think that Canton is the only place that can hold the state finals and that somehow attendance will suddenly increase starting with next season.

By holding them in Canton, you alienate at least two groups of people from attending. First of all, if I have a 16-17 year old high school student who is from Cinci or Dayton, I am not going to allow him to hop in the family car and take 3 other HS students with him to Canton for the weekend. Columbus is much closer and they could return home each night. Multiply that car load of kids by any number you want and you have a substantial # of people not attending.

You also eliminate an older generation (55 on up) of fans who would like to go, but physically cannot drive 3-1/2 to 4 hours one way and then attend games all day long. Thus you lose out on a large segment of the population. We used to attend the finals every year---in both football and basketball. We still go to the basketball finals at the Schott, but have not been to Canton for about 6 years. In Columbus, there is a great deal of parking, lots of shops and great restaurants available within a short drive or walking distance, and plenty of other things to do if you want to pass on a game. In Canton there is the HOF. We can also be in Columbus in an hour and a half--and could drive home every evening if we choose to do so.

If you choose to ignore the two demographics I mentioned, then it seems you will continue to struggle with attendance. A positive that may come out of this is you may be able to hold the finals at North Canton Middle School in the near future.

By the way, understanding your customer is taught in Marketing 101. Some of you must have been absent that day.
Once again, for the nine hundreth time: Columbus doesn't want the games. Put in a bid if you want the games in your neighborhood. Why can't you people understand that? Don't blame Canton or anyone from NEO Ohio; they put in a bid. Start writing your letters and picket the almighty Ohio State University. You can't force the unwilling to do something that they don't want to do.
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  #14  
Old 02-16-19, 11:05 PM
Salesman Salesman is offline
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Originally Posted by tom 48 View Post
You can't force the unwilling to do something that they don't want to do.
You are absolutely correct!!! You cannot force HS football fans to travel to Canton. How many times do we have to say this? I don't give a damn where they hold the finals. Canton, Athens, Columbus, Cincinnati, hell, have them at Put-In-Bay for all I care. However, I am confident Jerry Snodgrass will get this whole thing resolved and Canton will NOT be the answer.
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  #15  
Old 02-17-19, 12:03 AM
tom 48 tom 48 is offline
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Originally Posted by Salesman View Post
You are absolutely correct!!! You cannot force HS football fans to travel to Canton. How many times do we have to say this? I don't give a damn where they hold the finals. Canton, Athens, Columbus, Cincinnati, hell, have them at Put-In-Bay for all I care. However, I am confident Jerry Snodgrass will get this whole thing resolved and Canton will NOT be the answer.
You emphasize the fact that no one wants to come to Canton and that it will be a hardship. Fine.Just as you can't force people to come to Canton, which is true, so too can you not force the games on a facility that has no interest in having it. It's so freaking simple. Canton wants the games, no one else does. Or if they say they do, they haven't submitted a bid. If it goes down the tubes in Canton, so be it. But, at least, they stepped up to the plate and took the games from a city and stadium that has not interest in having them. It's been repeated so many times that any argument is fruitless. If people don't want the games in Canton ( the only city interested in having them), the answer is simple - do away with state championship games all together. That way, we won't have never-ending arguments about location, private vs. public, and Massillon vs. state championships. Just go back to 10 games and have the players move on to winter sports.
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  #16  
Old 02-17-19, 12:05 AM
Vike16 Vike16 is offline
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Columbus Crew stadium in 2 years will be the best option. Canton is too far for SW Ohio teams and fans
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  #17  
Old 02-17-19, 06:20 AM
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Canton is too far for SW Ohio teams and fans
This is just the silliest argument. You SWO people sound like babies.

Is there some kind of law or physical/mental condition that prohibits you from traveling for more than a few hours? Does no one from SWO ever go on a vacation or business trip? Or do you limit your vacations to Indianapolis or Louisvillle?

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Old 02-17-19, 08:02 AM
queencitybuckeye queencitybuckeye is offline
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The fans of the participating schools will show up in very large to small numbers. The days of "high school football fan" traveling several hours to take in "all 7" is all but over based on the numbers. Place the finals the exact same way as weeks 12-14.
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Old 02-17-19, 08:03 AM
bkmk1 bkmk1 is offline
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Since the 2 big issues are $ and driving distances, why don't they just run the state finals like weeks 10-14. Wait to see who the 2 teams are for each division, then bid out the 7 games at neutral sites centered as close as possible to the 2 schools involved. Will be better attended, due to less travel, which means more $. The question is for the people that only go to watch there school, as well the the "casual fan" like me that goes no matter what. (except blizzard or brutal wind chills). Pros and cons from fans of there schools only as well as 'casual fans"??? I personally don't think that all 7 games need to be at the same site. I like it that way, but just looking to resolve the travel and cost issue. Would love to hear peoples pros and cons and thoughts.
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Old 02-17-19, 08:35 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by bkmk1 View Post
Since the 2 big issues are $ and driving distances, why don't they just run the state finals like weeks 10-14. Wait to see who the 2 teams are for each division, then bid out the 7 games at neutral sites centered as close as possible to the 2 schools involved. Will be better attended, due to less travel, which means more $. The question is for the people that only go to watch there school, as well the the "casual fan" like me that goes no matter what. (except blizzard or brutal wind chills). Pros and cons from fans of there schools only as well as 'casual fans"??? I personally don't think that all 7 games need to be at the same site. I like it that way, but just looking to resolve the travel and cost issue. Would love to hear peoples pros and cons and thoughts.
The OHSAA likes having a big event weekend, and there is some merit to that.

Last edited by chs1971; 02-17-19 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 02-17-19, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my2sense View Post
This is just the silliest argument. You SWO people sound like babies.



Is there some kind of law or physical/mental condition that prohibits you from traveling for more than a few hours? Does no one from SWO ever go on a vacation or business trip? Or do you limit your vacations to Indianapolis or Louisvillle?




So, when Nippert Stadium in Cincinnati or Welcome Stadium in Dayton get the finals you NE Ohio people will be coming South in droves? I think it's political and NE Ohio has had the clout. SW Ohio has looked at it as moot point and no sense in even bidding.
I'd be interested in seeing who submitted bids. Miami U, UD, UC, Kings Island, Bowling Green all have fantastic venues for High School football.
When we go on vacation we don't typically go to NE Ohio for God's sake. . Do you NE Ohio people drive to Dayton for vacation? Come on son.


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  #22  
Old 02-17-19, 10:23 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by my2sense View Post
Does no one from SWO ever go on a vacation
No one has ever gone to Canton for a vacation, ever.

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Originally Posted by my2sense View Post
... or business trip?
No fan gets paid to watch the state finals.

A lot of people are going to watch one high school football game.
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Old 02-17-19, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Salesman View Post
I think there are 2 major issues that need to be addressed:

1. Attendance continues to decrease at the state finals in Canton.

2. The ignorance of some people who think that Canton is the only place that can hold the state finals and that somehow attendance will suddenly increase starting with next season.

By holding them in Canton, you alienate at least two groups of people from attending. First of all, if I have a 16-17 year old high school student who is from Cinci or Dayton, I am not going to allow him to hop in the family car and take 3 other HS students with him to Canton for the weekend. Columbus is much closer and they could return home each night. Multiply that car load of kids by any number you want and you have a substantial # of people not attending.

You also eliminate an older generation (55 on up) of fans who would like to go, but physically cannot drive 3-1/2 to 4 hours one way and then attend games all day long. Thus you lose out on a large segment of the population. We used to attend the finals every year---in both football and basketball. We still go to the basketball finals at the Schott, but have not been to Canton for about 6 years. In Columbus, there is a great deal of parking, lots of shops and great restaurants available within a short drive or walking distance, and plenty of other things to do if you want to pass on a game. In Canton there is the HOF. We can also be in Columbus in an hour and a half--and could drive home every evening if we choose to do so.

If you choose to ignore the two demographics I mentioned, then it seems you will continue to struggle with attendance. A positive that may come out of this is you may be able to hold the finals at North Canton Middle School in the near future.

By the way, understanding your customer is taught in Marketing 101. Some of you must have been absent that day.
Very well written book ... now explain this, with all this that you explained how come the games (14) in Columbus drew 117,500 and the games (14) in Canton drew 113,702 or an average of only 271 less people per game?
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  #24  
Old 02-17-19, 10:31 AM
Raymo Raymo is offline
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[QUOTE=chs1971;7256289]No one has ever gone to Canton for a vacation, ever.

That's really a stupid statement.
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Old 02-17-19, 10:48 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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[QUOTE=Raymo;7256292]
Quote:
Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
No one has ever gone to Canton for a vacation, ever.

That's really a stupid statement.
First, it was kind of a joke.

Second, no one ever has.
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Old 02-17-19, 11:02 AM
Quest4Gold Quest4Gold is offline
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I don't usually post about this, but the main reason attendance is down is because most people rather watch it on tv in a warm place and the amount of kids playing football is way down. I have been to finals at both venues. I think it feels more like a high school game at Canton because even a half filled Benson stadium is much better than a 1/10 filled Columbus stadium. If we were getting crowds like Texas does, then I would say Columbus would be a better place, but as of right now, Canton is. I also believe it will be better in Canton as soon as the Parking Deck gets completed.
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Old 02-17-19, 11:05 AM
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State Championship week is about more than just the games. It's a chance to bring football coaches, administrators and fans together from around the state. There's also a misperception that venues are dying to get the games, which just isn't true.

My alma mater played in a state championship game in 1981 that was held in what was then a crappy Upper Arlington stadium. There was absolutely nothing special about that venue. I agree they should vary the location, but spreading them all over isn't the answer.
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  #28  
Old 02-17-19, 11:21 AM
bkmk1 bkmk1 is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
The OHSAA likes having a big event weekend, and there is some merit to that.
My question was not asked about what the OHSAA would think, it's about what the fans think. And if it's about having a big event, it sounds like you think everyone should just shut up and go along with what the OHSAA has decided. That would be my take from your post. Maybe I'm wrong to assume that. If I am, I apologize in advance.
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  #29  
Old 02-17-19, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Vike16 View Post
Columbus Crew stadium in 2 years will be the best option. Canton is too far for SW Ohio teams and fans
The city of Columbus is dedicating that venue to soccer.

Google Mapfre sports complex

Of course the Mayor and most of City Council are morons.

:>---
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Old 02-17-19, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by BlessEmAll View Post
So, when Nippert Stadium in Cincinnati or Welcome Stadium in Dayton get the finals you NE Ohio people will be coming South in droves?
I think it will be the same as now. Those motivated to go will make the trip. Those who want to find lame excuses to stay home will do that.

But the notion that Cincy or Dayton is "too far" from Canton is as asinine as the other way around. It's just lame and lazy.
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