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  #1  
Old 02-14-19, 08:14 PM
Razzle43 Razzle43 is offline
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NJ just limited full contact to 15 minutes a week

http://highschoolsports.nj.com/news/...ever-anywhere/

15 minutes of full contact practice a week and a total of 6 hours of full contact practice in the preseason. Is this good or bad, and will it happen in Ohio?
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Old 02-14-19, 08:19 PM
19AL63 19AL63 is offline
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Guess my idea of manufacturing flags and the other equip need for flag games might just be a better than I thought. No doubt after 15 minutes it will go to 10-5-4-3-2-1-0 and everyone will need the flags.
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Old 02-14-19, 10:27 PM
VVTommyBoy VVTommyBoy is offline
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I hope other states wouldn't adopt such a rule but, might be worth having a discussion.

I am of the mind that it would be like playing a video game to learn how to fly. Actually doing it increases the emotions.

Seriously, how can you learn to play the game properly? Maybe there is too much contact but, I don't think you reduce injuries if you don't prepare for some hitting.
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  #4  
Old 02-14-19, 10:55 PM
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Mr. Slippery Mr. Slippery is offline
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I didn't read the article too closely, but the devil is probably in the details. A few questions enter my mind:

1) What is their exact definition of "full contact?" Do players have to be going 100% for it to be considered "full contact," or is going at say 80% also included?

2) How are they going to police this rule?

3) How prevalent are injuries during practices vs. injuries sustained during a game?

4) I could see this being counter-productive. I envision more injuries resulting during games due to players not having ample opportunity to learn how to properly take a fall. If it's successful, I'm sure other states will quickly follow suit.
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  #5  
Old 02-15-19, 03:37 AM
Buckeye Elite Buckeye Elite is offline
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You learn a lot from contact in practices, I agree it cannot be the same as it once was hitting every day all practice but basically taking it was away for the most part is just dumb to me
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Old 02-15-19, 05:30 AM
Friday night light Friday night light is offline
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15 minutes a week would be an increase in full contact at some schools. Tackling to the ground rarely happens in practice anymore at a lot of things places.
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  #7  
Old 02-15-19, 07:02 AM
Teddy_Westside Teddy_Westside is offline
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Live contact means no tackling to the ground. You can still "thud" which is how most teams practice. This rule will have almost no affect on most schools because most schools rarely tackle to the ground in practice anyway.
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  #8  
Old 02-15-19, 07:30 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
I envision more injuries resulting during games due to players not having ample opportunity to learn how to properly take a fall.
I had no idea that "taking a fall" was an area of medical concern. I thought the big issue was concussions.
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  #9  
Old 02-15-19, 07:40 AM
19AL63 19AL63 is offline
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I have not been to a high school practice since my son graduated in 91 so I really do know what is happening during practice, I do know in watch high school games which I still do, I see a lot of poor blocking and tackling in games maybe this is the result of no actual practice of doing it at 100%. Flags will take care of the problem.
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  #10  
Old 02-15-19, 07:51 AM
thejobsquad thejobsquad is offline
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It bothers me when people today say tackling has gotten worse. This is not the case. The reality is in the 50s-90s when most on here probably played, we played the game of football in a phone booth. Three yards and a cloud of dust. Maybe, maybe a handful of us played in a run-n-shoot type system, but most probably played in a pro set or double TE split back or full house set. When you play in those types of conditions, tackling is easier. In today's spread game, teams play in the open field. Where you are asking a player to make a one on one tackle, and for us, who are now old and out of shape, we try to say that would be easy to do, but think about the type of drills we worked in high school in college, everything was between the tackles, because that is where the game was played. Today it's not, and in open space tackling is difficult, I don't care who you are. Athletes make plays in space.
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  #11  
Old 02-15-19, 07:57 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
I had no idea that "taking a fall" was an area of medical concern. I thought the big issue was concussions.
You missed the point on this one. The first time you get hit shouldn't be the first game. Imagine not getting hit or hitting someone for 9 months, then all of a sudden you're getting hit for 50 plays. Naturally, the body isnt going to react well. You need to build up contact periods until the first game.

A pitcher in baseball doesn't just casually throw for 15 minutes a week leading up to opening day, where he is expected to throw 100 pitches every 5 days. Different sport but the idea is there.

Not having at least some full contact in preseason and in practices will lead to more injuries during games. Not saying you should be doing oklahoma drills everyday, but players need live practices. Basketball teams don't just do drills all preseason, they have live scrimmages. Wrestlers beat the crap out of each other during their practices leading up to their first meets. Everyone's so worried about concussions because that's what makes the news, yet they forget about back, knee, hip, and all other injuries that happen because players aren't used to getting hit.
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  #12  
Old 02-15-19, 08:00 AM
ImpracticalJoker ImpracticalJoker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
I had no idea that "taking a fall" was an area of medical concern. I thought the big issue was concussions.
I would have to believe that "taking a fall" causes many of the concussions that occur. When a head hits the ground it can jar the brain - you see all kinds of replays on TV of that occurring.
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  #13  
Old 02-15-19, 08:26 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
You missed the point on this one.
No I didn't.

I coached for 37 years and attended many college clinics and practices. No one teaches or practices "taking a fall."
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  #14  
Old 02-15-19, 08:29 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImpracticalJoker View Post
I would have to believe that "taking a fall" causes many of the concussions that occur. When a head hits the ground it can jar the brain - you see all kinds of replays on TV of that occurring.
How do you practice taking a fall so that your head doesn't hit the ground? If you get tackled to the ground, or hit so hard that you get knocked off your feet, how do you prevent your head from touching the ground with force? How many concussions will you get from having your head bounced off the ground practicing how to prevent that from happening? Do you figure those extra concussions learning how not to get a concussion are worth it?
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  #15  
Old 02-15-19, 08:39 AM
ImpracticalJoker ImpracticalJoker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
How do you practice taking a fall so that your head doesn't hit the ground? If you get tackled to the ground, or hit so hard that you get knocked off your feet, how do you prevent your head from touching the ground with force? How many concussions will you get from having your head bounced off the ground practicing how to prevent that from happening? Do you figure those extra concussions learning how not to get a concussion are worth it?
Just pointing out that the two things are connected.
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  #16  
Old 02-15-19, 08:48 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
No I didn't.

I coached for 37 years and attended many college clinics and practices. No one teaches or practices "taking a fall."
You clearly didn't read the rest of my comment, so I'm not even going to give a rebuttal because I already did. Next
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  #17  
Old 02-15-19, 08:53 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
How do you practice taking a fall so that your head doesn't hit the ground? If you get tackled to the ground, or hit so hard that you get knocked off your feet, how do you prevent your head from touching the ground with force? How many concussions will you get from having your head bounced off the ground practicing how to prevent that from happening? Do you figure those extra concussions learning how not to get a concussion are worth it?
How many times have guys in the NFL held out and missed training camp, or they are a veteran player and decide to skip training camp, only to get injured within the first month of the season (non concussion)? It happens all the time. Players bodies aren't ready to take the hits that are coming to them. I've seen this happen firsthand in HS as well, where players arent going full go or miss practice time for whatever reason, only to get hit in the 2nd quarter of a game and miss the rest of it. I'm not saying players should be doing Oklahoma drills for 2 hours everyday, but having 15 minutes of a live scrimmage a few days a week isn't going to kill anyone or add any more concussions or injuries than are already present. Your argument of "taking a hit isnt proper football speak" or whatever is pretty weak tbh.

"Full contact" in HS is never "lets go 150% and kill the QB and make sure we demolish the running back" like you're saying in this post. Apparently in 37 years of coaching as you say, you've taken full contact the wrong way.
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  #18  
Old 02-15-19, 08:54 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
You clearly didn't read the rest of my comment, so I'm not even going to give a rebuttal because I already did. Next
I did read the rest of your comment, twice. No point was missed.
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  #19  
Old 02-15-19, 09:00 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
I did read the rest of your comment, twice. No point was missed.
Then in your "37 years of coaching" you would know that proper tackling and being tackled are being taught at all levels. Hawk tackling and other forms are being used in MS and HS and even college today that emphasize getting the head out of the way. Skill positions that carry that ball like RB and WR are being taught how to protect themselves when being hit. But apparently "taking a fall" isn't being taught. Amazing
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  #20  
Old 02-15-19, 09:06 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
How many times have guys in the NFL held out and missed training camp, or they are a veteran player and decide to skip training camp, only to get injured within the first month of the season (non concussion)? It happens all the time. Players bodies aren't ready to take the hits that are coming to them. I've seen this happen firsthand in HS as well, where players arent going full go or miss practice time for whatever reason, only to get hit in the 2nd quarter of a game and miss the rest of it. I'm not saying players should be doing Oklahoma drills for 2 hours everyday, but having 15 minutes of a live scrimmage a few days a week isn't going to kill anyone or add any more concussions or injuries than are already present. Your argument of "taking a hit isnt proper football speak" or whatever is pretty weak tbh.

"Full contact" in HS is never "lets go 150% and kill the QB and make sure we demolish the running back" like you're saying in this post. Apparently in 37 years of coaching as you say, you've taken full contact the wrong way.
You are completely confused.

I understand perfectly the value of blocking and tackling drills and practice. I am an expert of teaching tackling beyond your imagination.

I never practiced "150% and kill the QB and make sure we demolish the running back." Never. The majority of our practices were limited contact, and my drills were constructed to teach skills with a minimum of risk. Not just to prevent concussions, but other unnecessary risks as well.

But learning how to take a fall is just a ridiculous concept.
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  #21  
Old 02-15-19, 09:13 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post

I understand perfectly the value of blocking and tackling drills and practice. I am an expert of teaching tackling beyond your imagination.
.
Someones a little conceited, and offended too. I didn't know I was talking to Pete Carroll here

As a side note, number of years coaching does not equal expert on the subject. Sean McVay is 33 years old and led the Rams to the Super Bowl this year. I think he knows a little more about football than you do. So throwing around the number of years you've been coaching is also weak.

Apparently trying to have a conversation is too much for you to handle. I was making counterpoints to your points. Yet you resort to trying to insult me.

I guarantee I'm a lot younger than you, but my apparently age does not equal maturity in your case. Maybe you should get a hobby in your free time old man
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  #22  
Old 02-15-19, 09:16 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
Then in your "37 years of coaching" you would know that proper tackling and being tackled are being taught at all levels. Hawk tackling and other forms are being used in MS and HS and even college today that emphasize getting the head out of the way. Skill positions that carry that ball like RB and WR are being taught how to protect themselves when being hit. But apparently "taking a fall" isn't being taught. Amazing
It's funny you mention "Hawk Tackling."

When the Seattle Seahawks won their Super Bowl there was a lot of talk about their tackling skills. The next fall Urban Meyer said that the Buckeyes would incorporate the Seahawk tackling methods.

A year or two later a man I coached with for decades told me he saw some video online of Pete Carroll and his "Hawk Tackle." His exact words were, "It's the way you've been teaching tackling for years."

I watched it. It is. I told my players to watch it. They agreed.
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  #23  
Old 02-15-19, 09:17 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
It's funny you mention "Hawk Tackling."

When the Seattle Seahawks won their Super Bowl there was a lot of talk about their tackling skills. The next fall Urban Meyer said that the Buckeyes would incorporate the Seahawk tackling methods.

A year or two later a man I coached with for decades told me he saw some video online of Pete Carroll and his "Hawk Tackle." His exact words were, "It's the way you've been teaching tackling for years."
So you're actually saying I'm right then? Thanks bud
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  #24  
Old 02-15-19, 09:26 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
Someones a little conceited, and offended too. I didn't know I was talking to Pete Carroll here

Apparently trying to have a conversation is too much for you to handle. I was making counterpoints to your points. Yet you resort to trying to insult me.
Read my post about Pete Carroll.

I didn't mean to offend or insult you.

If I talked to a carpenter of 37 years and he told me he know more about building cabinets than I could image I would not be insulted. And I've repaired and/or installed cabinets.

If I talked to an auto mechanic of 37 years and he told me he knew more about engines than I could imagine I would not be insulted, and I rebuilt the top of an engine once.

Honestly, I know more about safely teaching safe tackling skills than you can imagine.
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  #25  
Old 02-15-19, 09:29 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
So you're actually saying I'm right then? Thanks bud
I'm saying that perhaps you did not understand what I was trying to say the first item.
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  #26  
Old 02-15-19, 09:29 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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I don't think this needs to be a rule.

I know our school limits contact late in the season quite a bit and probably does do that amount or less during the week to stay fresh for the playoffs.

but in 2 a days.....earlier in the season I think you need to have that contact and 15 minutes a practice isn't enough.
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  #27  
Old 02-15-19, 09:37 AM
exit322 exit322 is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
No I didn't.

I coached for 37 years and attended many college clinics and practices. No one teaches or practices "taking a fall."
Need more 'rasslin in your clinics then
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  #28  
Old 02-15-19, 09:40 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by exit322 View Post
Need more 'rasslin in your clinics then
Too tough for me, but I encouraged my players.
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  #29  
Old 02-16-19, 08:54 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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I apologize for my ranting. It served no useful purpose and offended some who did not deserve it .
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  #30  
Old 02-16-19, 09:14 AM
falguin falguin is offline
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This is a sure way to get kids hurt. You need to get used to hitting. I would say NJ had kids' health in mind if they limited the amount of time girls could play soccer. There are more concussions there than in football. This is ridiculous. Students really need to practice proper tackling in order to avoid injuries. Take away the helmet and form tackling will be the result. Kids won't stick their heads in there to be used as a battering ram. Don't allow kids to hit until Friday night and you are asking to get kids being out of position to hit. More idiot politicians making decisions that they know nothing about.
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