Ask The Ref?

[COLTCOUNTRY]

Originally Posted by AllSports12

It's illegal to block or contact an opponent that is in a defenseless position or one who is obviously not a part of the play.

Examples are (but not limited to) the following.

- On a kickoff, after the ball is kicked, the kicker moves slowly towards midfield. A member of the receiving team advances on the kicker from a distance of 20 yards and buries him all while the return man for the receiving team is being tackled at his own 25 yard line.

- After an interception, the interceptor is returning the ball up the sideline at his own 30 yard line. His teammate executes a blind side block on an opponent at the 30 yard line, but in the center of the field.

Both hits are deemed illegal because neither opponent was in a poistion to make a play or influence a play on the runner.

The call last night the player was probably about 15 yards from the player with the ball.

Not sure if I like this rule. Takes away the chance to block the speedster who is attempting to run down the ball carrier and probably will run the guy down since no one is allowed to block him. Seems silly to me.

[AllSports12]

Originally Posted by COLTCOUNTRY

The call last night the player was probably about 15 yards from the player with the ball.

Not sure if I like this rule. Takes away the chance to block the speedster who is attempting to run down the ball carrier and probably will run the guy down since no one is allowed to block him. Seems silly to me.

These are HTBT calls.... (had to be there) Sometimes 15 yards is too far, sometimes it's fine. You have to take into consideration the entirety of the play.

The reason for the rule...... safety.

[smurfyeah19]

I just want to say this. Players and parents I can't as a ref stress how important proper tackling is and to avoid targeting. Just don't do it, a lot of refs are going to lean towards an ejection almost every time and that'll cost ya two games

[Yappi]

What is the face guarding rule on a pass in HS football?

[AllSports12]

It is pass interference if a player hinders the vision of an opponent while making no attempt to catch, intercept or bat the ball, even if no contact occurs.

[EastYoungstown]

A forth down and 20 play begins with a false start on the offense and ends with a personal foul for a late hit in the defense after a ten yard run. Where is the ball spotted? What down is it?

[AllSports12]

Originally Posted by EastYoungstown

A forth down and 20 play begins with a false start on the offense and ends with a personal foul for a late hit in the defense after a ten yard run. Where is the ball spotted? What down is it?

After the false start penalty enforcement it is 4th and 25.

The 10 yard run is short of the line to gain, so the ball changes possession on downs. The opponent is penalized for the dead ball foul and starts their new possession 1sgt and 10 from a spot that is 15 s behind the dead ball spot. (the penalty could also be half the distance to the goal)

This happens more often than you think and is often penalized incorrectly. The offense by, rule will never retain possession in this instance.

[cabezadecaballo]

Terrible call, without question, in a JV game yesterday. I am curious as to what the proper correction should have been.

3rd and 8, QB and RB sell a read option so well that it fakes out a defender enough to tackle the RB without the ball 2.5 yds BLoS. Unfortunately, the back judge totally bought it too, and he blows the play dead. Meanwhile, the QB and the ball are 8 yards away and 3 short of the first down. After a zebra huddle, the offense gets the ball 4th and 3.

What should have happened ? Any set protocol, or all judgement here ?

[EastYoungstown]

Originally Posted by AllSports12

After the false start penalty enforcement it is 4th and 25.

The 10 yard run is short of the line to gain, so the ball changes possession on downs. The opponent is penalized for the dead ball foul and starts their new possession 1sgt and 10 from a spot that is 15 s behind the dead ball spot. (the penalty could also be half the distance to the goal)

This happens more often than you think and is often penalized incorrectly. The offense by, rule will never retain possession in this instance.

Thank you. The call was forth and ten and the team punted, so it wasn't a game changer. It just didn't seem correct though.

[AllSports12]

Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo

Terrible call, without question, in a JV game yesterday. I am curious as to what the proper correction should have been.

3rd and 8, QB and RB sell a read option so well that it fakes out a defender enough to tackle the RB without the ball 2.5 yds BLoS. Unfortunately, the back judge totally bought it too, and he blows the play dead. Meanwhile, the QB and the ball are 8 yards away and 3 short of the first down. After a zebra huddle, the offense gets the ball 4th and 3.

What should have happened ? Any set protocol, or all judgement here ?

When an inadvertent whistle occurs with player possession, by rule, the team in possession may choose to take the ball at the spot where the ball was blown dead or they may choose to replay the down. (if a live ball foul occurs prior to the IW and the penalty is accepted, the IW is ignored)

Sounds like they choose to take the ball at the spot where it was blown dead. At least the crew didn't make a bad situation worse by improperly enforcing the rule.

[cabezadecaballo]

First down was gained on the next play, and the team that had the ball ended up winning by multiple scores, so no real harm anyway. It was just weird to see.

Thanks

[AllSports12]

Originally Posted by EastYoungstown

Thank you. The call was forth and ten and the team punted, so it wasn't a game changer. It just didn't seem correct though.

Sometimes it looks like it doesn't have an impact when it actually does....

Example -- Ball is spotted at the 50 and Team A punts, pinning Team B inside their own 5 yard line. Puts team B at a huge disadvantage when you take into consideration that they should have had the ball 1st and 10 at the 50.

Worse yet, Team A punts, Team B muffs the punt and Team A recovers at the 5 yard line......

While I'm not a guy who buys into the "refs cost us the game with that call" rhetoric, a misapplication the rules is inexcusable by an officiating crew.

[EastYoungstown]

Originally Posted by AllSports12

Sometimes it looks like it doesn't have an impact when it actually does....

Example -- Ball is spotted at the 50 and Team A punts, pinning Team B inside their own 5 yard line. Puts team B at a huge disadvantage when you take into consideration that they should have had the ball 1st and 10 at the 50.

Worse yet, Team A punts, Team B muffs the punt and Team A recovers at the 5 yard line......

While I'm not a guy who buys into the "refs cost us the game with that call" rhetoric, a misapplication the rules is inexcusable by an officiating crew.

I agree totally. It was just fortunate that it wasn't a game changer in this case.

[AllSports12]

Until anyone officiates and has an IW, they have no idea how bad that official feels.

[ReLoad]

In Saturday's game between St. Xavier and East St. Louis the following occurred:
The line of scrimmage was the ESL 9 yard line.
It was 4th down and 10.
The ESL punter was in the back of their end zone.
His punt went straight up in the air.
The punter tried to catch it at the 5 yard line (behind the line of scrimmage) but dropped it and it rolled forward he then picked it up around the 9 yard line (line of scrimmage) and ran to the 24 yard line where he was tackled.
The referees gave the ball to ESL, 1st and 10 at their 24 yard line.
Weirdest punt play I can recall.
Was this the correct call?

[AllSports12]

Originally Posted by ReLoad

In Saturday's game between St. Xavier and East St. Louis the following occurred:
The line of scrimmage was the ESL 9 yard line.
It was 4th down and 10.
The ESL punter was in the back of their end zone.
His punt went straight up in the air.
The punter tried to catch it at the 5 yard line (behind the line of scrimmage) but dropped it and it rolled forward he then picked it up around the 9 yard line (line of scrimmage) and ran to the 24 yard line where he was tackled.
The referees gave the ball to ESL, 1st and 10 at their 24 yard line.
Weirdest punt play I can recall.
Was this the correct call?

Yes

Had the ball been recovered past the neutral zone, the ball would have been blown dead at the point where the ESL player recovered the ball and it would have been 1st an 10 (possibly 1st and goal) for the receiving team.

[SportsGenius]

How can that be legal?
So what youre saying is, a teams punter could punt it basically to himself, catch it and run for a first down? That makes zero sense

[AllSports12]

Originally Posted by SportsGenius

How can that be legal?

It's legal because the ball was recovered behind the neutral zone.

Originally Posted by SportsGenius

So what youre saying is, a teams punter could punt it basically to himself, catch it and run for a first down? That makes zero sense

Yes

He could also pass it to a teammate or even kick it again.

[tom_hsfootball_fan]

Originally Posted by AllSports12

He could also pass it to a teammate or even kick it again.

Rule 6, Section 2, ART. 3 . . .
Any K player may catch or recover a scrimmage kick while it is in
or behind the neutral zone and advance, unless it is during a try.

The punter could actually intentionally kick the ball to his teammate behind the line of scrimmage, and that guy could run for the first down. So, if the punter is on the run from the rush and gets to the outside, one of his teammates could be near the sideline behind the line of scrimmage, receive the kick and run down the sideline... and there's not even any "eligibility" restrictions like on a forward pass. I've heard of teams practicing it... never seen it in actual play.

[AllSports12]

Originally Posted by tom_hsfootball_fan

Rule 6, Section 2, ART. 3 . . .
Any K player may catch or recover a scrimmage kick while it is in
or behind the neutral zone and advance, unless it is during a try.

The punter could actually intentionally kick the ball to his teammate behind the line of scrimmage, and that guy could run for the first down. So, if the punter is on the run from the rush and gets to the outside, one of his teammates could be near the sideline behind the line of scrimmage, receive the kick and run down the sideline... and there's not even any "eligibility" restrictions like on a forward pass. I've heard of teams practicing it... never seen it in actual play.

That one could win you adult beverages for the entire weekend at your local watering hole.

[Wadz06]

That's interesting

Q: offense delay of game while clock is running. Does this stop the clock? No 30 point rule in play. Does the clock stop until the next snap?


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[AllSports12]

Originally Posted by Wadz06

That's interesting

Q: offense delay of game while clock is running. Does this stop the clock? No 30 point rule in play. Does the clock stop until the next snap?


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No

The only stoppages are for....

An official's time-out for an injured player
A charged time out
Change of possession occurs at the end of a down
End of a period
A score by either team
Any extended delay

After any of the above, the clock will start on the ready for play, not the snap.

[Wadz06]

Then why do teams take a knee? If you have the room, walk off the field with 2 minutes because delay of game penalties would eat up clock?


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[AllSports12]

Originally Posted by Wadz06

Then why do teams take a knee? If you have the room, walk off the field with 2 minutes because delay of game penalties would eat up clock?


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In 37 years of officiating, I have never seen a team take repeated delay of game penalties to run out the clock. They take the play clock down to close to zero and then snap the ball, followed by the knee. In fact, there is a rule against a team fouling repeatedly or intentionally to either conserve or eat up time.

Remember, there is nothing stopping the teams from ending a game early. If both agree......it's over.

Rarely does that happen.

[Wadz06]

What's the penalty for repeated fouling


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[jmog]

Originally Posted by AllSports12

No

The only stoppages are for....

An official's time-out for an injured player
A charged time out
Change of possession occurs at the end of a down
End of a period
A score by either team
Any extended delay

After any of the above, the clock will start on the ready for play, not the snap.

Out of bounds?

[AllSports12]

Originally Posted by Wadz06

What's the penalty for repeated fouling


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In the matter of repeated delay of game fouls, the clock would be stopped and not restarted until the ball is snapped.

If a team fouls to stop the clock, it will start on the ready for play.

[AllSports12]

Originally Posted by jmog

Out of bounds?

No... Only the 6 listed

[Wadz06]

Key words

After any of the above, the clock will start on the ready for play, not the snap.


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[ohiopup]

Originally Posted by Wadz06

What's the penalty for repeated fouling

Rule 10: Section 9: Article 5:

Unfair act.
... neither team shall commit any act which, in the opinion
of the refree, tends to make a travesty of the game.

Penality: Unfair act - the refree any penalty he considers equitable, including the award of a score - (for repeated fouls a forfeiture may be awarded)


pup note: the rule specificly cites repeated fouls as those that would continue to
half the distance to the goal (Art:2). Continuing to foul to prolong the game would
fall under ART.5.

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