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  #31  
Old 06-18-18, 09:31 PM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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Didnt the USGA or some entity basically come out and say they would water the course more, especially the greens, on Sunday bc the course dried up so much throughout the day? They recognized the problem

You saw shots that were dang near perfect roll of through green, when those same shots earlier in the day stayed on. It also wasnt just one pro complaining, it was just about all of them. I think I respect their opinion on how the course changed from AM to PM, after all they were the ones playing it
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  #32  
Old 06-18-18, 10:12 PM
Username1 Username1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
Seems like you know a lot about golf.




Except they weren't. The course got markedly tougher as the day went on Saturday.
So? Course get tougher as the day goes on most courses. They dry out. Should they stop tournaments if rain comes in and makes the course easier for the afternoon guys?

East is right when he commented about "good shot". If you hit the green and the ball rolls off and it's been rolling off all week when golfers hit the same spot on the green from the same distance...then it's a bad shot for that green. Like I said the winner went even par, exactly where he should be. If they want to be -12 all the time in tournaments, then par needs adjusted, the handicap system needs adjusted. 60 would be the new par.
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  #33  
Old 06-18-18, 10:14 PM
Username1 Username1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
Didnt the USGA or some entity basically come out and say they would water the course more, especially the greens, on Sunday bc the course dried up so much throughout the day? They recognized the problem

You saw shots that were dang near perfect roll of through green, when those same shots earlier in the day stayed on. It also wasnt just one pro complaining, it was just about all of them. I think I respect their opinion on how the course changed from AM to PM, after all they were the ones playing it
Courses change all the time during the course of the day. Sun, wind, rain, humidity whatever.
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  #34  
Old 06-18-18, 10:34 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
Didnt the USGA or some entity basically come out and say they would water the course more, especially the greens, on Sunday bc the course dried up so much throughout the day? They recognized the problem

You saw shots that were dang near perfect roll of through green, when those same shots earlier in the day stayed on. It also wasnt just one pro complaining, it was just about all of them. I think I respect their opinion on how the course changed from AM to PM, after all they were the ones playing it
Well again, the guy in the second to last group, won. How does that not play into the reasoning of fairness even in hindsight? You essentially saying, he played a tougher course than most of the other golfers. His shots didn't roll off because his shots were "good" for the conditions.

I think they get paid millions of dollars to show they are better then the golfers that can't adjust. If they'd watered the course for the first players, I don't think it would have been popular if they'd set the sprinklers on though out the day, to keep the conditions consistent. Would that be a normal thing to do? Does Koepka now have a complaint, the grounds keepers gave the weaker golfers an advantage? No, he adjusts.

I don't think it's a sport meant to be based upon ideal conditions.

My opinion is based upon what I see as the purpose of the competition, to beat the course that's in front of you. Weather changes. That's not the fault of the course designer or the grounds keepers. It's part of the game.
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  #35  
Old 06-19-18, 12:18 AM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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Eastisbest, you do realize the US Open wasn't at Shinnecock last year right? That's probably the main reason you didn't hear the players complaining about the course a year ago. I could be wrong though. Koepka won last year in Wisconsin, in a totally different time zone. He finished 16 under par there.
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  #36  
Old 06-19-18, 12:44 AM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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PGA player opinions, USGA saying they went overboard on Saturday (essentially admitting guilt)> weekend warrior golfers....thats just my opinion
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  #37  
Old 06-19-18, 04:24 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
I am always so confused reading eastisbest posts.

Now i know how others feel when they read my rants!
I think that he thinks in a different language.
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  #38  
Old 06-19-18, 04:26 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Username1 View Post
Courses change all the time during the course of the day. Sun, wind, rain, humidity whatever.
Don't be obtuse. This was extreme and you know it, you doofus.
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  #39  
Old 06-19-18, 06:13 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianwr112 View Post
Eastisbest, you do realize the US Open wasn't at Shinnecock last year right? That's probably the main reason you didn't hear the players complaining about the course a year ago. I could be wrong though. Koepka won last year in Wisconsin, in a totally different time zone. He finished 16 under par there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
What's your definition of good shot? Seems if the ball doesn't end up where it's in good play, it wasn't a good shot.


I agree with the sentiment, they're all playing the same course under the same conditions. Golfers loved Erin Hills and the same guy won, both places.

Yes I realize it and I also realize it supports my position. It's a sport against nature or it's not a sport. It's a sport against the design of the course. The course isn't designed to pick who wins.


No one was demanded to swing with one hand tied behind his back. No one was prevented access to the course to see conditions. They all played the same course in expected and known and safe conditions. Their reason for existing is to conquer the course. Those pros (and their fans) pizzing their pants that the course made them look more normal should just stop. It's weak.


Same guy won the course that was praised last year. Same guy was in the second to last grouping when the complainers are now saying this course was harder. He adjusted.



How this not an obvious conclusion? Someone is going to win and they all played the same course. Nothing here was different than it is in any other tournament.



The course did not cause "good" shots to be bad.
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  #40  
Old 06-19-18, 06:37 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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I never understood that either. To cabe's point however, that course is different in the morning than afternoon. Still, the course is not to blame, and every good golfer will tell you that.
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  #41  
Old 06-19-18, 06:40 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
I am always so confused reading eastisbest posts.

Now i know how others feel when they read my rants!

You're deflecting, being unfair. What was confusing? You don't dispute my facts. Not even an attempt. You don't challenge the basis for my conclusion, which I clearly stated: it's a sport against nature. If the ball doesn't play, it's the fault of the golfer, not the course. and they all played the same course, within the confines of nature.

-The guy who won, also won when the players loved the course.
-There were no unsafe conditions to cause them to suspend play.
-The guy who won it, was in the second to last group, when the course was supposedly "harder," or by your contention, should have been making "good" shots even worse.


Conclusion: the course did not cause "good" shots to be bad. Golfers are supposed to play the conditions. The golfers caused their shots to be bad.

You think that if someone put up 12 million, winner getting 2.16 million, these same guys wouldn't play in the Walmart parking lot? You think they'd be blaming hard greens for making their good shots go bad? Why should anyone listen to even one of them whine about the conditions of this course? Somewhere in Scotland there are ghosts with bags of hickory laughing their azzes off.

You may disagree with my conclusion but if you found the presentation "confusing," my apologies. Seemed middle school accessible to me.


This was history made. I would think the "knowledgeable" fans of a real sport would be celebrating, not looking for reasons to blame the course?
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  #42  
Old 06-19-18, 07:04 AM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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Not deflecting just saying I often times am super confused about the direction and points of your post and how now I know how others feel when they read my nonsense and drivel (not calling your posts drivel, just mine )
I realize you put a lot of thought into your posts

Last edited by Arrogate; 06-19-18 at 07:44 AM.
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  #43  
Old 06-19-18, 07:07 AM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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"Knowledgable" players, USGA> "knowledgeable" weekend warrior fans
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  #44  
Old 06-19-18, 07:35 AM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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It would be nice to see the Open played on a course that didn't look like a water starved muni track. The USGA has dedicated themselves to conserving water, but they overdid it with places like Pinehurst, Chambers Bay and Shinnecock. You don't have to completely dry out a course and take all of the green out of it to make it competitive course. Augusta demonstrates that point.

As for the course conditions, the complaints about the course Saturday were merited. The following quote makes it clear: “It was a tale of two golf courses, and no doubt, we would admit, well-executed shots were not only not rewarded, but were punished,” said Mike Davis, the chief executive of the USGA and the man in charge of course setup. “We would say that it was a very tough test, and really too tough this afternoon.”
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  #45  
Old 06-19-18, 09:12 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auggie View Post
They are not complaining about it being too hard but about it being unfair. You hit a good shot you should be awarded not penalized.
You hit a shot and it doesn't end up where you want it to.

That's unfair?

Come on now.

Maybe it wasn't a good shot after all.
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  #46  
Old 06-19-18, 09:55 AM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
You hit a shot and it doesn't end up where you want it to.

That's unfair?

Come on now.

Maybe it wasn't a good shot after all.
East, I am usually on the side that's contrary to whining professional athletes, but when the head of the USGA admits the course didn't reward well executed shots, that pretty much ends the debate.
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  #47  
Old 06-19-18, 10:09 AM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
You hit a shot and it doesn't end up where you want it to.

That's unfair?

Come on now.

Maybe it wasn't a good shot after all.
USGA admitting fault>weekend warrior golfers
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  #48  
Old 06-19-18, 11:28 AM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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Originally Posted by Arrogate View Post
"Knowledgable" players, USGA> "knowledgeable" weekend warrior fans
>ted
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