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  #31  
Old 02-04-19, 01:16 PM
lc5397 lc5397 is offline
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The football roster is closer to 100. That's more than 10% of the total male enrollment for the entire school.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
Compared to the other sports that bring in ZERO dollars, at least the football program brought something in. Obviously it's the most expensive to run, but the point still stands.

Malone enrollment is around 1700 right now. Losing 50 guys isn't going to kill them. Most people aren't going to Malone for sports.
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  #32  
Old 02-04-19, 01:19 PM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lc5397 View Post
The football roster is closer to 100. That's more than 10% of the total male enrollment for the entire school.
I would imagine that not all 100 kids leave. If you had to choose between a full scholarship without playing football or transfer to a D3 school for a chance to play, but no money is guaranteed and you have to figure out how to pay for it, it's a tough choice. I can see a lot of kids staying to get their education for free, especially those that can't afford to transfer and pay their own way. I would imagine a lot of the younger players that would have a shot at playing at another school transfer, but a lot of upperclassman may stay to finish their degree. There's a lot to consider.
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  #33  
Old 02-04-19, 01:24 PM
lc5397 lc5397 is offline
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I agree. But that's 100 students they have to account for moving forward after whatever current players cycle through the system.

I also think the immediate impact will be greater. At the D2 level, almost no one is getting full scholarships. It's a lot of 1/2 and 1/4 scholarships so a lot of those kids are already paying something. Depending on the individual student's situation, even with a partial scholly, it may be cheaper to just transfer to a state school to finish or move down to D3. I'd guess about 1/3 of the kids on the roster are walk-ons with no scholarship.

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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
I would imagine that not all 100 kids leave. If you had to choose between a full scholarship without playing football or transfer to a D3 school for a chance to play, but no money is guaranteed and you have to figure out how to pay for it, it's a tough choice. I can see a lot of kids staying to get their education for free, especially those that can't afford to transfer and pay their own way. I would imagine a lot of the younger players that would have a shot at playing at another school transfer, but a lot of upperclassman may stay to finish their degree. There's a lot to consider.
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  #34  
Old 02-04-19, 01:35 PM
boomer24 boomer24 is offline
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There was an article that pointed out Malone finished the season without a scholarship player starting on defense...does that seem right?

What does D2 get for scholarships? 32 or is it more than that? I wonder is Malone even fully funded the program...did they give them all the available scholarships?
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  #35  
Old 02-04-19, 01:41 PM
lc5397 lc5397 is offline
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36 is the total number of scholarships that a school MAY give out at the D2 level and may be given out incrementally (1/2, 1/4, etc.).

I think you're right that they probably aren't a fully funded program and were probably giving out less than the 36 allowed.

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Originally Posted by boomer24 View Post
There was an article that pointed out Malone finished the season without a scholarship player starting on defense...does that seem right?

What does D2 get for scholarships? 32 or is it more than that? I wonder is Malone even fully funded the program...did they give them all the available scholarships?
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  #36  
Old 02-04-19, 01:48 PM
bop bop is offline
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Probably going to be a trend. With the expense of football and now the liability issues, if the program is not making money get rid of it. This could also translate to high school football in the near future, especially the smaller schools. $$$$$
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  #37  
Old 02-04-19, 01:55 PM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bop View Post
Probably going to be a trend. With the expense of football and now the liability issues, if the program is not making money get rid of it. This could also translate to high school football in the near future, especially the smaller schools. $$$$$
I think the bigger issue in high school is lack of participation. Participation numbers are down drastically over the last decade plus due to safety concerns, pay to play and budget cuts. It's going to be tough for most high schools to get rid of their biggest revenue sport however. Plus if you get rid of football, then other things are affected like band and cheerleading as well. It's just a bad move altogether
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  #38  
Old 02-04-19, 02:10 PM
Football 101 Football 101 is offline
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are kids really not playing?

simple search on google - article on a site called ESPN - anyone ever hear of that?

http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_...all-data-shows
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  #39  
Old 02-04-19, 02:17 PM
lc5397 lc5397 is offline
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You're quoting some pretty old data there.

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Originally Posted by Football 101 View Post
are kids really not playing?

simple search on google - article on a site called ESPN - anyone ever hear of that?

http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_...all-data-shows
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  #40  
Old 02-04-19, 02:22 PM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Football 101 View Post
are kids really not playing?

simple search on google - article on a site called ESPN - anyone ever hear of that?

http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_...all-data-shows
You post an article that contradicts your point.

"There is evidence of declining interest once adolescence hits. Among teenagers ages 13-17 who are core participants, tackle football saw a drop in both total numbers and in share of the population playing the game between 2014 (1.631 million, 7.5 percent) and '15 (1.566 million, 7.1 percent). Core participation was at 9 percent in 2011, during the recession, but it hasn't recovered."

Cmon now. If you're going to make sarcastic remarks, at least give me relevant data that supports your point. This is something people learn how to do in 7th grade.

Anyone with a brain knows that the number of kids playing middle and high school football has dropped over the last 2 decades. Look around. There are schools that used to field a team of 60-70 kids grades 9-12 that are lucky to get 30-40 kids out now. Part of the issue is overall decreases in enrollment. Other factors like safety, budget cuts and pay to play have decreased those numbers as well.
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  #41  
Old 02-04-19, 02:23 PM
Football 101 Football 101 is offline
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yeah I know - 2014 is SOOOO OLD

LOL and this helmet concussion thing has only been sensationalized this year.

what was I thinking - but at least I provided something of substance instead of making statements with generalizations with no data to support the narrative some are pushing.

lets not act like there isn't more and more opportunities of other functions pulling some of these kids from playing.

my bad
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  #42  
Old 02-04-19, 02:30 PM
lc5397 lc5397 is offline
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Yes, that is old data in relation to this issue. All the numbers have been down since the year you cherry picked. They have been hugely down at the high school level over the last decade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Football 101 View Post
yeah I know - 2014 is SOOOO OLD

LOL and this helmet concussion thing has only been sensationalized this year.

what was I thinking - but at least I provided something of substance instead of making statements with generalizations with no data to support the narrative some are pushing.

lets not act like there isn't more and more opportunities of other functions pulling some of these kids from playing.

my bad
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  #43  
Old 02-04-19, 02:35 PM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is online now
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Even the article this guy tried to throw at us had data that showed HS and Middle School participation decreasing in the early 2010's. I'm sure it has only gotten worse since then. This guy needs to get a clue.
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  #44  
Old 02-04-19, 02:37 PM
lc5397 lc5397 is offline
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And everyone here is a football "person". None of us want to see football decline. None of us have an agenda here. Pretending the numbers say something they don't or cherry-picking data doesn't do any good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
Even the article this guy tried to throw at us had data that showed HS and Middle School participation decreasing in the early 2010's. I'm sure it has only gotten worse since then. This guy needs to get a clue.
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  #45  
Old 02-04-19, 05:19 PM
yipyap yipyap is offline
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Might be honoring scholars but are paying coaches for one month.. very Christian like.
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  #46  
Old 02-04-19, 06:24 PM
Raider6309 Raider6309 is offline
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I’m surprised a school that little has football
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  #47  
Old 02-05-19, 07:25 AM
bop bop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yipyap View Post
Might be honoring scholars but are paying coaches for one month.. very Christian like.
The whole way this was handled was very unchristian like. It seems the coaches were only notified a few minutes before the team. I imagine some of these people were full time. I think people need to answer some questions here on how this was handled with the coaching staff and whomever else lost jobs. Seems like a complete debacle.
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  #48  
Old 02-05-19, 08:12 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is online now
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Interesting article I read about the timing of this happening. Basically says that since Malone waited until now to let players know, they're kinda screwed for finding scholarships and financial aid for next year. If Malone knew they were cutting the program, they should have given everyone notice ASAP and given players a fair chance at transferring out and finding money elsewhere.

Also teams that had Malone scheduled for 2019 are sent scrambling to find an opponent or be forced to have 1 less game and an open week.

Very bad business by Malone and honestly makes them look bad for how they handled this whole situation

https://www.cantonrep.com/sports/201...on-is-what-now
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  #49  
Old 02-05-19, 08:51 AM
ceebass13 ceebass13 is offline
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I just heard an interview with the former coach. It sounds like the coaching staff found out 15 minutes before the team was told. That seems like a poor way to handle a tough decision.
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  #50  
Old 02-05-19, 08:55 AM
Football 101 Football 101 is offline
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Talking to former players of Malone from the last 10 years - many are not surprised this finally went down.

Participation numbers say what they want you to say.

as far as my clue, maybe I don't have a clue about the narrative by some
but this I do know - change is inevitable

I see a bigger change in the pride men have in being fathers. How many fathers are tossing the old pig skin around the yard with their sons? or are they just being shuffled off to a video game so they are not bothered.

I find it funny how many guys I know played football and excelled and even played in college but don't want their son to play the game. No stats to show that but think if you know anyone that fits that bill.
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  #51  
Old 02-05-19, 10:25 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Football 101 View Post
I find it funny how many guys I know played football and excelled and even played in college but don't want their son to play the game. No stats to show that but think if you know anyone that fits that bill.
There are plenty of professional athletes that are either current or former NFL players or current or former NBA players that played football (a la LeBron) that have come out publicly saying they won't let their kid play football. Even Trump just said recently he would have to strongly think about letting his kid play. Even though equipment today is safer than it has ever been.

If you are good enough and have a choice in what sport to play, choosing basketball or baseball over football professionally should be an easy choice. Even collegiately it's an easy choice. Longer career, more money, and the safety factor isn't even close. I laugh at Kyler Murray (who is a 5'9 QB which is amazing) who already has millions of dollars guaranteed to play with the Oakland A's, that he is even considering football. He should be running to spring training right now to collect his millions and enjoy a 15 year baseball career where he should make even more.

Unfortunately, we all love a dying game.
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  #52  
Old 02-05-19, 10:53 AM
Toussanger Toussanger is offline
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Call me old school but since my son is graduated from college I now toss the " old pigskin " with my 5 year old Grandson. I'll do my best to not let football die.
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  #53  
Old 02-05-19, 11:09 AM
bop bop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
There are plenty of professional athletes that are either current or former NFL players or current or former NBA players that played football (a la LeBron) that have come out publicly saying they won't let their kid play football. Even Trump just said recently he would have to strongly think about letting his kid play. Even though equipment today is safer than it has ever been.

If you are good enough and have a choice in what sport to play, choosing basketball or baseball over football professionally should be an easy choice. Even collegiately it's an easy choice. Longer career, more money, and the safety factor isn't even close. I laugh at Kyler Murray (who is a 5'9 QB which is amazing) who already has millions of dollars guaranteed to play with the Oakland A's, that he is even considering football. He should be running to spring training right now to collect his millions and enjoy a 15 year baseball career where he should make even more.

Unfortunately, we all love a dying game.
Murray is considering football because he loves the game. There is no other sport like it. Nothing compares, period.
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  #54  
Old 02-05-19, 11:52 AM
lc5397 lc5397 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceebass13 View Post
I just heard an interview with the former coach. It sounds like the coaching staff found out 15 minutes before the team was told. That seems like a poor way to handle a tough decision.
Heard his interview as well. He mentioned they were operating off of 20 scholarships and not the max 36 allowed. Kind of hard to compete with one arm tied behind your back.
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  #55  
Old 02-05-19, 01:38 PM
mrroosevelt mrroosevelt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lc5397 View Post
Heard his interview as well. He mentioned they were operating off of 20 scholarships and not the max 36 allowed. Kind of hard to compete with one arm tied behind your back.
Just did some quick and easy research. If Malone offers 20 scholarships, which are worth about $40,000 each (tuition/room/board) that comes to a cost of $800,000. Add in coaches salaries, equipment, insurance, etc. and the cost is well in excess of $1,000,000. While I have never been to a Malone football game, I would assume their gate receipts for home games are less than $15,000 to $20,000 per year. The bottom line from the financial perspective almost certainly did this program in. Contrary to popular belief, collegiate football is not the cash cow people think it is. Outside of your DI power programs, football is often the biggest financial loser a college athletic program at DII and smaller DI programs. Ever been to a Kent or Akron football game? I assume Kent and Akron give out the full 85 scholarships allowed by FBS programs. (Not sure...just guessing.) . If they do, those two programs lose a huge amount of money every year.

Last edited by mrroosevelt; 02-05-19 at 02:09 PM.
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  #56  
Old 02-05-19, 03:10 PM
ceebass13 ceebass13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrroosevelt View Post
Just did some quick and easy research. If Malone offers 20 scholarships, which are worth about $40,000 each (tuition/room/board) that comes to a cost of $800,000. Add in coaches salaries, equipment, insurance, etc. and the cost is well in excess of $1,000,000. While I have never been to a Malone football game, I would assume their gate receipts for home games are less than $15,000 to $20,000 per year. The bottom line from the financial perspective almost certainly did this program in. Contrary to popular belief, collegiate football is not the cash cow people think it is. Outside of your DI power programs, football is often the biggest financial loser a college athletic program at DII and smaller DI programs. Ever been to a Kent or Akron football game? I assume Kent and Akron give out the full 85 scholarships allowed by FBS programs. (Not sure...just guessing.) . If they do, those two programs lose a huge amount of money every year.
The coach mentioned that football budget was about $360K per year.
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  #57  
Old 02-05-19, 05:36 PM
Cali_Eagle Cali_Eagle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrroosevelt View Post
Just did some quick and easy research. If Malone offers 20 scholarships, which are worth about $40,000 each (tuition/room/board) that comes to a cost of $800,000. Add in coaches salaries, equipment, insurance, etc. and the cost is well in excess of $1,000,000. While I have never been to a Malone football game, I would assume their gate receipts for home games are less than $15,000 to $20,000 per year. The bottom line from the financial perspective almost certainly did this program in. Contrary to popular belief, collegiate football is not the cash cow people think it is. Outside of your DI power programs, football is often the biggest financial loser a college athletic program at DII and smaller DI programs. Ever been to a Kent or Akron football game? I assume Kent and Akron give out the full 85 scholarships allowed by FBS programs. (Not sure...just guessing.) . If they do, those two programs lose a huge amount of money every year.
FWIW: When I attended Kent State back in the 1970's, I can recall no buzz or even casual conversation about the football team. No one sharing big plans to go to the football game on any given week. KSU even used Ravenna High School's marching band because (then) they didn't have one of their own. I have the very distinct memory of thinking back then (forget about all the poorly attended losing seasons since then) that if Kent State dropped football no one would even notice or care. Either you make the commitment to WIN and get people excited about the team; get a big excited bandwagon rolling; or else just forget it, you are wasting your time money and effort. Just my personal two cents on this, of course your mileage may vary.

I think KSU for sure and probably Akron too is too much of a commuter school to care much about football.
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  #58  
Old 02-06-19, 07:35 AM
mrroosevelt mrroosevelt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceebass13 View Post
The coach mentioned that football budget was about $360K per year.
Do you know if that $360K included scholarships? My guess it that it did not. Just curious.
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  #59  
Old 02-06-19, 09:07 AM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceebass13 View Post
The coach mentioned that football budget was about $360K per year.
There is now way that includes scholarships or coaches salary/benefits. That is probably just operating costs (insurance, equipment, travel costs, ect.).
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  #60  
Old 02-06-19, 09:19 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrroosevelt View Post
Do you know if that $360K included scholarships? My guess it that it did not. Just curious.
Someone already mentioned this but: they said they only used 20 scholarships.

20 scholarships at 40,000 a year (tuition, room/board, etc) is $800,000 just in that.

According to their website, they have 10 assistant coaches, I would imagine $25-50k a year depending on position. Plus whatever the HC makes. You can do the math.

$360k is probably just uniforms, travel, meals, etc. Basic day-to-day operating costs.
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