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  #91  
Old 01-22-19, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MentorGrad2002 View Post
I can't see the wrc taking anymore teams. 8 is the perfect number for a league and all the teams fit together

They wouldn't take Solon for the same reason as mentor. They'd kill everybody in many sports

And if shaker is complaining about diversity in the GCC, um you really want to be in a league with Madison , Chardon kenston , riverside , north, south etc ? Not much diversity there either to say the least


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I think the WRC should consider Mentor for most sports, excluding football and maybe boys basketball. In all other sports, the WRC schools have recently been competing and/or winning district titles against Mentor programs. Mentor is in the middle of the WRC footprint and would help improve gate money for the league across the board. It would also cut overall travel trying to schedule OCC, while providing a competitive rival in most sports. I think Mentor as an addition to the WRC would benefit everyone.
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  #92  
Old 01-22-19, 10:59 AM
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I just can't see the wrc wanting any part of Mentor in any sports. I agree it would help with the gate and it's a geographic fit. I also would point out that most of these schools will see us in the playoffs for most sports outside of football anyways. And you make the playoffs in most sports outside of football automatically so it doesn't hurt any to play a game or 2 vs mentor

That being said , Mentor would probably finish top 2-3 in most sports in that league and I'm not sure many want another team that topples them down another peg in most sports.

I'd love to be Indy in football and bball only if I had to choose over being fully Indy. But I don't think the wrc at a perfect 8 would be inclined to offer Mentor anything. Most of those schools still avoid us in many sports and dodged us in leagues over the years


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  #93  
Old 01-22-19, 04:59 PM
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Would adding Solon to the WRC (independent in football like Mentor) help even things out in other sports? Brush, Mayfield, and Kenston were in the old WRC with Solon. If you remove football from the picture, the Comets are a good fit.

Solon probably wouldn’t want that unless no other league takes them. I imagine they would jump to the Suburban if the GCC crumbles.
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  #94  
Old 01-22-19, 05:54 PM
Carol Danvers Carol Danvers is offline
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Brush
Mayfield
Eastlake North
Willoughby South
Mentor
Euclid
Maple Hts
Bedford

The old GCC was full of good rivalries. Things have really changed...
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  #95  
Old 01-22-19, 06:13 PM
bkmk1 bkmk1 is offline
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Seems to me the best option by far is Berea to the GCC.
Reason 1: They are a D1 school. Why would you want to play all SWC D2 schools every year. If you're a D1 football program, put on your big boy pants and get into a D1 league. Only hurting yourself when it comes to Harbins. And it's football, travel isn't that far.

Reason 2: The SWC only has 1 open non league game which is week 1. That would free them all to have 2 non league games which they all want anyway.

Last edited by bkmk1; 01-22-19 at 06:27 PM.
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  #96  
Old 01-23-19, 07:17 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkmk1 View Post
Seems to me the best option by far is Berea to the GCC.
Reason 1: They are a D1 school. Why would you want to play all SWC D2 schools every year. If you're a D1 football program, put on your big boy pants and get into a D1 league. Only hurting yourself when it comes to Harbins. And it's football, travel isn't that far.

Reason 2: The SWC only has 1 open non league game which is week 1. That would free them all to have 2 non league games which they all want anyway.
Why would Berea want to just dive into the GCC with all of the "big boy D1 teams" and get slaughtered? They can barely win 5 games in their SWC D2 conference. They lost to Strongsville this past year, who was probably the 5th best GCC team, and they probably lose to Medina, Euclid, Solon, Mentor and possibly Shaker (toss up). I don't know about you, but going 2-5 in the GCC every year doesn't sound appealing to me. I get that they are D1 and probably should be in that conference, but geographically and competitively, they are where they belong.
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  #97  
Old 01-23-19, 07:30 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardzfan1234 View Post
Would adding Solon to the WRC (independent in football like Mentor) help even things out in other sports? Brush, Mayfield, and Kenston were in the old WRC with Solon. If you remove football from the picture, the Comets are a good fit.

Solon probably wouldn’t want that unless no other league takes them. I imagine they would jump to the Suburban if the GCC crumbles.
I would imagine that the current GCC teams would want to keep the league in tact. If what you proposed happens with Solon, then Euclid is basically stuck with no where to go. Strongsville, Elyria, Medina and Brunswick could latch onto another conference, but Euclid is too big for the LEL and I doubt the WRC would want them either.
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  #98  
Old 01-23-19, 09:35 AM
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Euclid isn't way bigger than Shaker. The lel would probably take them back as they are a fit overall.


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  #99  
Old 01-23-19, 10:47 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by MentorGrad2002 View Post
Euclid isn't way bigger than Shaker. The lel would probably take them back as they are a fit overall.


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It would just be an odd mix football wise. Euclid is one of the top programs in NEO right now and is competing with the likes of Mentor, Eds, Iggy, etc. It's good fit probably for every other sport besides football. They wouldn't lose a game in the LEL for the foreseeable future. Not sure the LEL would want to bring in a school like Euclid that just dominates everyone in football. And putting them in the LEL hurts them with Harbin points in the super competitive Region 1 where every point matters.
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  #100  
Old 01-23-19, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardzfan1234 View Post
Would adding Solon to the WRC (independent in football like Mentor) help even things out in other sports? Brush, Mayfield, and Kenston were in the old WRC with Solon. If you remove football from the picture, the Comets are a good fit.

Solon probably wouldn’t want that unless no other league takes them. I imagine they would jump to the Suburban if the GCC crumbles.
Adding both Mentor and Solon would be a good idea outside football. It's a possibility to split into two divisions of 5 schools with crossover games to keep a decent amount of OOC and to contain travel:

NORTH
Madison
Mentor
North
Riverside
South

SOUTH
Brush
Chardon
Kenston
Mayfield
Solon
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  #101  
Old 01-23-19, 12:03 PM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Are there any actual schools that are independent in one sport (football or basketball) and in a conference for the rest of their sports? obviously this is common in NCAA, but I've never actually heard of a High School doing this. Until this happens, our theoreticals would never happen.
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  #102  
Old 01-23-19, 02:02 PM
James x2 James x2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackandGold View Post
Adding both Mentor and Solon would be a good idea outside football. It's a possibility to split into two divisions of 5 schools with crossover games to keep a decent amount of OOC and to contain travel:

NORTH
Madison
Mentor
North
Riverside
South

SOUTH
Brush
Chardon
Kenston
Mayfield
Solon
I don't see any of these schools other than Solon and Brush( in basketball )that would beat Mentor in football or basketball.Solon could compete,Brush in basketball only,Kenston had a great Football team this year but going forward probably not.

Last edited by James x2; 01-23-19 at 02:06 PM. Reason: add
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  #103  
Old 01-23-19, 03:05 PM
reganaustinjames reganaustinjames is offline
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While we're throwing out hypotheticals...

Let's say the GCC does break up, w/ Euclid joining Shaker in the LEL and Mentor and Solon on proverbial islands (I don't care what anyone else says, there's a better chance of me becoming a tech billionaire than Solon joining the WRC or Suburban).

Strongsville, Brunswick, Elyria, and Medina would be left with nowhere to go, except... if they decided to propose a merger w/ the SWC to create a two-tiered conference. Those 4 could join w/ Berea and poach Lorain from the LEL to form a 6-team bigger division, and the smaller division could be the absolutely perfect 8-team grouping of Amherst, Avon, Avon Lake, Midview, N. Olmsted, N. Ridgeville, O-Falls, and Westlake.

Lakewood, which never belonged in the SWC, could be the 10th team in the GLC and everything could work perfectly... right up until the Parma schools consolidate.
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  #104  
Old 01-23-19, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reganaustinjames View Post
While we're throwing out hypotheticals...

Let's say the GCC does break up, w/ Euclid joining Shaker in the LEL and Mentor and Solon on proverbial islands (I don't care what anyone else says, there's a better chance of me becoming a tech billionaire than Solon joining the WRC or Suburban).

Strongsville, Brunswick, Elyria, and Medina would be left with nowhere to go, except... if they decided to propose a merger w/ the SWC to create a two-tiered conference. Those 4 could join w/ Berea and poach Lorain from the LEL to form a 6-team bigger division, and the smaller division could be the absolutely perfect 8-team grouping of Amherst, Avon, Avon Lake, Midview, N. Olmsted, N. Ridgeville, O-Falls, and Westlake.

Lakewood, which never belonged in the SWC, could be the 10th team in the GLC and everything could work perfectly... right up until the Parma schools consolidate.
What's your basis for this? I'm not going to defend the football program here, but I'm not seeing why they don't belong otherwise. The travel is easy and, contrary to popular belief, they're a fit enrollment-wise as well (Lakewood's most recent OHSAA boys enrollment is actually closer to the smallest school in the SWC, Midview, than it is to Berea-Midpark's, the largest).
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  #105  
Old 01-23-19, 03:50 PM
bkmk1 bkmk1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
Why would Berea want to just dive into the GCC with all of the "big boy D1 teams" and get slaughtered? They can barely win 5 games in their SWC D2 conference. They lost to Strongsville this past year, who was probably the 5th best GCC team, and they probably lose to Medina, Euclid, Solon, Mentor and possibly Shaker (toss up). I don't know about you, but going 2-5 in the GCC every year doesn't sound appealing to me. I get that they are D1 and probably should be in that conference, but geographically and competitively, they are where they belong.

You kind of answered your own question. The reason is because they are D1. Time to play a D1 schedule. Gradually try and get better and hang with the D1 teams of the GCC. Not the D2 schedule they currently play. Imagine if they actually did improve with the size of that school and became competitive in the GCC. Isn't that much better than: (we can't win in the D2 SWC, so even though they're D1, we want to stay D2 and win some games). Not the attitude I would want from my coach, players, or school. Their approach should be let's do everything in our power to become the best D1 football team we can. That's the lesson to pass on to the kids as well versus let's play D2 and win some games, even though we are a D1 program. Just 1 mans humble opinion. Geographically is a whole separate argument. That would be the only reason to not switch leagues. I could buy into that, not the getting slaughtered part. Also they lost to Strongsville week 1. I saw Both play, and if they played mid season or later, I would have picked Berea as the better team.
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  #106  
Old 01-23-19, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bkmk1 View Post
You kind of answered your own question. The reason is because they are D1. Time to play a D1 schedule. Gradually try and get better and hang with the D1 teams of the GCC. Not the D2 schedule they currently play. Imagine if they actually did improve with the size of that school and became competitive in the GCC. Isn't that much better than: (we can't win in the D2 SWC, so even though they're D1, we want to stay D2 and win some games). Not the attitude I would want from my coach, players, or school. Their approach should be let's do everything in our power to become the best D1 football team we can. That's the lesson to pass on to the kids as well versus let's play D2 and win some games, even though we are a D1 program. Just 1 mans humble opinion. Geographically is a whole separate argument. That would be the only reason to not switch leagues. I could buy into that, not the getting slaughtered part. Also they lost to Strongsville week 1. I saw Both play, and if they played mid season or later, I would have picked Berea as the better team.
Even then, they would still be with Strongsville, Brunswick, and Medina, all right down I-71 from them in a line. Elyria's only a half hour away.

I agree with your take overall. Mentor, Solon, and Euclid would be a huge challenge for B-M in some sports, but I would think the combination of some traditional rivals and some opportunities to push the envelope would be a fantastic value prop for them. Their enrollment would be a perfect fit in the GCC as well (unlike the SWC, where their most recent OHSAA boys enrollment is 30% larger than the next-largest school, and they're the only D-1 school in the conference in football).

I'm not trying to kick B-M out of the SWC and I don't know if they would want to leave, but there are very good arguments for them being a good fit in the GCC. The only one I've heard against it is that it's better to go 6-3 or 5-4 in the SWC in football than 1-6 or 2-5 in the GCC. I think that's a weak argument. If we were talking about Avon, a school that is solidly D-2 enrollment-wise and a power in football in that division, suddenly moving to a conference where they play all D-1s, making trips to the east side and risking their playoff status in the process, then sure, it wouldn't be a fit. B-M is a completely different situation.
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  #107  
Old 01-23-19, 05:19 PM
bkmk1 bkmk1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clevfan View Post
Even then, they would still be with Strongsville, Brunswick, and Medina, all right down I-71 from them in a line. Elyria's only a half hour away.

I agree with your take overall. Mentor, Solon, and Euclid would be a huge challenge for B-M in some sports, but I would think the combination of some traditional rivals and some opportunities to push the envelope would be a fantastic value prop for them. Their enrollment would be a perfect fit in the GCC as well (unlike the SWC, where their most recent OHSAA boys enrollment is 30% larger than the next-largest school, and they're the only D-1 school in the conference in football).

I'm not trying to kick B-M out of the SWC and I don't know if they would want to leave, but there are very good arguments for them being a good fit in the GCC. The only one I've heard against it is that it's better to go 6-3 or 5-4 in the SWC in football than 1-6 or 2-5 in the GCC. I think that's a weak argument. If we were talking about Avon, a school that is solidly D-2 enrollment-wise and a power in football in that division, suddenly moving to a conference where they play all D-1s, making trips to the east side and risking their playoff status in the process, then sure, it wouldn't be a fit. B-M is a completely different situation.
Plus the other thing I also like and I mentioned it in 1 of my other posts regarding BM and the SWC. (if BM went to the GCC). The SWC in football only has 1 game to play a non conference team. Most teams like to have more than 1. The SWC has 10 teams, so week 1 they play a non league team, then they play league games the rest of the season. They are 1 of the few or minimal leagues set up like that. I would think they would love to have the opportunity to open or have 2 non conference games. That would benefit them all to help get ready for league play. And I 100% agree with you about the weak argument regarding why not to leave the SWC. That is a horrible reason.
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  #108  
Old 01-23-19, 05:41 PM
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Plus the other thing I also like and I mentioned it in 1 of my other posts regarding BM and the SWC. (if BM went to the GCC). The SWC in football only has 1 game to play a non conference team. Most teams like to have more than 1. The SWC has 10 teams, so week 1 they play a non league team, then they play league games the rest of the season. They are 1 of the few or minimal leagues set up like that. I would think they would love to have the opportunity to open or have 2 non conference games. That would benefit them all to help get ready for league play. And I 100% agree with you about the weak argument regarding why not to leave the SWC. That is a horrible reason.
It's a good point, and I can't help but notice that the GLC will be nine teams starting this fall, and there would appear to be some great opportunities for the GLC and SWC teams to fill each other's schedules.
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  #109  
Old 01-23-19, 07:49 PM
bkmk1 bkmk1 is offline
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Originally Posted by clevfan View Post
It's a good point, and I can't help but notice that the GLC will be nine teams starting this fall, and there would appear to be some great opportunities for the GLC and SWC teams to fill each other's schedules.
I agree. I think it would be great for those teams to not be locked into weeks 2-10 as league teams only: year after year after year. They could really add and create some great non league games by not having a 10 team league. The possibilities for new great matchups for them is endless.
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  #110  
Old 01-23-19, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bkmk1 View Post
I agree. I think it would be great for those teams to not be locked into weeks 2-10 as league teams only: year after year after year. They could really add and create some great non league games by not having a 10 team league. The possibilities for new great matchups for them is endless.
You're really under estimating the difficulty of getting these great matchups after Week 3.
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  #111  
Old 01-23-19, 10:45 PM
Mike Gully Mike Gully is offline
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Lake Erie League is expanding

Lakewood wants no part of a “big school league”. So all of the comments suggesting they would join Brunswick Medina Elyria and Strongsville are silly. They joined the West Shore (with D3 Bay River and D5 EC) to get away from big schools. I’m convinced Lakewood would join the west side PAC if they would take them.


Who really knows what is going to happen but just because the GCC is on the ropes don’t think that the other leagues are just gonna accommodate the rest of the schools.

The Suburban, SWC and others aren’t gonna jeopardize their own leagues stability to add GCC misfit schools. GCC schools are too big for some, too competitive for others. That’s what makes the GCC so awesome is that the current members work with each other. The only issue is west side east side split. Sure Cle Hts or Lorain, or BM would suffice as replacements for Shaker but it throws the balance of power off.

Bottom line is someone will be left out and someone is going to be unhappy wherever they land.
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  #112  
Old 01-25-19, 03:31 PM
bkmk1 bkmk1 is offline
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You're really under estimating the difficulty of getting these great matchups after Week 3.
I never said it would be easy to set them all up. So I'm not underestimating the difficulty of getting great matchups. But I believe with HARD WORK by the schools A.D.'s, it can be done.
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  #113  
Old 01-25-19, 04:40 PM
Cali_Eagle Cali_Eagle is offline
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It's been 15 days (appx. 2 weeks) since the original post on this thread. Is there any local Cleveland area news as to what Garfield Heights plans to do in regard to their invitation to join the LEL?

I'm wondering what Euclid might do if Garfield turns down the invite to join the league. A Garfield refusal will leave the LEL at 7 teams, which provides an opening for anyone that might want to take it. Euclid is a predominantly minority school and is an older East Side inner ring suburb, as is the entire 7 team membership of the LEL*. Euclid was/has been a past LEL member for roughly half their existence, maybe more since the school opened in 1949.

I'm not aware that Euclid has any pressing reason, need, or desire to leave the GCC but if anyone was going to make the LEL an 8 team circuit, either Euclid or Garfield are the likeliest candidates.

It seems that any/all potential candidates to possibly ever join the GCC are all West Side schools. If the balance in the GCC suddenly went 5-3 West Side, I could see Euclid at least considering making a move for travel's sake.


EDIT: * Except for Lorain which is on the West Side. I overlooked them on the original post. In fact.... one wonders how long Lorain will want to stay in an 8 team league where they are the only West Side member and all the other schools are on the East Side. I could see them at least trying to get in the GCC now that there is going to be an opening.

Last edited by Cali_Eagle; 01-25-19 at 05:14 PM. Reason: to make a correction & to add content
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  #114  
Old 01-25-19, 04:48 PM
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Garfield’s next board meeting is next week. No agenda has been posted yet. I would be shocked if they don’t accept.
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  #115  
Old 01-25-19, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bkmk1 View Post
I never said it would be easy to set them all up. So I'm not underestimating the difficulty of getting great matchups. But I believe with HARD WORK by the schools A.D.'s, it can be done.
Or.....They can have leagues with even number of teams and have weeks 4-10 taken care of for them, instead of having a handful of teams (likely not nearby) to choose from in one specific week
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  #116  
Old 01-26-19, 08:52 AM
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It will certainly be interesting to see what happens with the GCC. Iggy and Ed's may benefit staying local with good competition to help fill the open weeks in a 7-team GCC. I'm curious to see how many of the schools will step up and play them OOC (like Mentor already does) to fill those open weeks. The Parma schools did this in the first couple seasons of the 7-team GLC. Or, will these limited scheduling options be enough to send the GCC schools quickly scattering to other leagues?
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  #117  
Old 01-26-19, 01:09 PM
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I doubt any of the westside schools or solon willl schedule Eds or ignatius. Solon is the only one that could even compete in some years. The westside schools are closer to D2 and D3 public schools than they are to the top D1 teams like Mentor Eds and ignatius.

I was excited when first seeing them in the noc but they've been massive disappointments


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  #118  
Old 01-26-19, 01:44 PM
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As for the SWC in this discussion, Berea-Midpark and/or Lakewood would have to voluntarily leave the league. They will not be pressured to leave, as things stand now.

They could leave on their own, as Lakewood has thus far ignored a petition from parents to leave the SWC for the GLC.

B-M is always a candidate to one day join back up with old Pioneer Conference mates Strongsville, Brunswick and Medina in some sort of league, but thus far have shown no interest in doing so...and are not exactly killing it in the D2 SWC.

My preference would be for both to leave the SWC and get the SWC down to Amherst, Avon, Avon Lake, Midview, North Olmsted, North Ridgeville, Olmsted Falls, Westlake...but that is not likely anytime soon.
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  #119  
Old 01-26-19, 01:46 PM
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Mentor and Solon are not loved by their neighbors...at least as far as league invites are concerned, and the same is true of Lorain and Elyria on the westside...so those schools will always be fighting to remain in a stable league, for different reasons. Their choices are limited.
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  #120  
Old 01-26-19, 02:22 PM
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Well Mentor is surrounded by D2 and D3 schools that can't compete with us in most sports as a whole especially the 2 revenue sports of football and boys basketball. That's out of our control in terms of league invites. They'll be some of them that will play us in random sports for boys or girls


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