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  #61  
Old 01-12-19, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
Any legitimate ideas for what the GCC could do to replace shaker? Is staying with 7 schools an option?


It's hard to see a team that makes sense. I'm sure the GCC would take whoever applies provided the rest of the league is content to stay put

Berea has been talked about but there's still some sports they'd do bad in. One is football. But they are a big school. Westside schools would like it. Mentor and Euclid won't have many complaints

I'd like Warren Harding but doubt they'd want to come aboard

7 is fine if the teams want to stay. The fed does it. The main issue is each team would have an open week in one of the weeks 4-10 to fill. Mentor could just shift ignatius. Others would have to scramble some

Nobody here will have answers. These things are going to be handled by the athletic directors and other decision makers for the schools

We all will just be guessing


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  #62  
Old 01-13-19, 08:34 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James x2 View Post
Not in football or basketball.But you know everything so we should lock this topic down then,
Lol the only teams that would have a prayer of competing in football this year would have been maple and Cleveland hts. But those programs are so up and down, you can’t rely on them to be competitive year in and year out. Maple would have gotten killed in previous years in football. Same thing in basketball: there would be some years they could hang, others they wouldn’t. Obviously there are other sports too, but when people point to competitive balance, they look at those 2 because they’re the most recognized and covered by the media.
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  #63  
Old 01-13-19, 08:38 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by MentorGrad2002 View Post
It's hard to see a team that makes sense. I'm sure the GCC would take whoever applies provided the rest of the league is content to stay put

Berea has been talked about but there's still some sports they'd do bad in. One is football. But they are a big school. Westside schools would like it. Mentor and Euclid won't have many complaints

I'd like Warren Harding but doubt they'd want to come aboard

7 is fine if the teams want to stay. The fed does it. The main issue is each team would have an open week in one of the weeks 4-10 to fill. Mentor could just shift ignatius. Others would have to scramble some

Nobody here will have answers. These things are going to be handled by the athletic directors and other decision makers for the schools

We all will just be guessing


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I could see them sticking with 7. Harding doesn’t really make sense from a geographical standpoint. But other wise they’d be a fit. I was thinking berea as well. But not sure they’d want to leave their conference to travel to the east side for half their games. You could start going south and look at nordonia or twinsburg as well, or others in that area. Again, geography plays a role. There just aren’t many other big schools left that would want to have mentor, Euclid and Solon on their schedule every year. Not sure how many D2 schools would want to pony up and move to the GCC.

Like you said, I could see 7 teams. Al they would have to do is shift and make their conference schedule the last 6 weeks, with their open dates being the first 4. They still have a year and a half to schedule games before shaker actually leaves.
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  #64  
Old 01-13-19, 10:12 AM
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First of all no suburban league team is coming to the GCC. Hudson twinsburg nordonia etc made that league to get away from the mentor and solon types

The one thing you are missing is that it isn't as simple as everyone having week 4 open and playing in conference the last 6 weeks

7 is an uneven number. In each week of weeks 4-10 you'd have to have 3 GCC matchups along with 1 team playing out of conference. Mentor could easily just throw ignatius on whatever week they need to do that. The other 6 teams would have to adapt with a later out of conference opponent too. The fed does this already




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  #65  
Old 01-13-19, 12:11 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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Here is/are some data from the 2017-18/2018-19 enrollment cycle on the male side, keep in mind these are three grade numbers:
Solon (637), Shaker (645), and Euclid (652) were the smallest GCC enrollments
Mentor (963) and Brunswick (953) were the biggest

In the Suburban League, Stow (655) is the biggest enrollment. Everyone else is under 600. The others in the "big" division in order are -- North Royalton (593), Hudson (581), Wadsworth (574), Cuyahoga Falls (564), Brecksville (528), Twinsburg (511), and Nordonia (449)

As most know the NOC break-up was primarily caused by disagreement over the 5th and/or 6th teams in the upper football division. Mentor, Solon, Strongsville, Brunswick all were in it - at varying times due to non-competitiveness Medina and Elyria weren't, so it became a tug-of-war b/n Hudson, Twinsburg, Nordonia, and Mayfield for those spots.

In the WRC, Riverside (549) is the biggest enrollment. Will South (509), Mayfield (504), and Eastlake North (500) are the next biggest.

If the GCC picked up Cleveland Hts, they would become the smallest male enrollment in the league at 634. Berea-Midpark has a much bigger enrollment at 791 ... that's the difference between 260 males a grade and 210.
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  #66  
Old 01-13-19, 12:31 PM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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The scheduling makes sense. Sorry my brain doesn’t like to work on sundays.

From what everyone is saying, seems like there really is no one to take shakers spot unfortunately. It’s definitely a hard sell to schools to want to join the GCC and be the smallest school in it, having to face mentor, Euclid and Solon every year, especially in football. I guess they’re going to have to adapt and do the 6 game rotating conference schedule like you mentioned. It’s not impossible to get teams later in the year (Garfield hts has been doing it for the last 4 years), it’s just a pain to do. Mentor might have to start playing out of state teams like Ed’s and Iggy do.
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  #67  
Old 01-13-19, 01:04 PM
E.S. Furgeson E.S. Furgeson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MentorGrad2002 View Post
Sports are about more than 2 revenue sports. Doesn't take a lot of knowledge to know that

I don't know you from anyone else to comment with a bitter tone as you did towards me. But you can save your little snarky tone for someone who will give a damn


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I love when you talk like this. It gets me all fired up!!


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  #68  
Old 01-13-19, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
The scheduling makes sense. Sorry my brain doesn’t like to work on sundays.



From what everyone is saying, seems like there really is no one to take shakers spot unfortunately. It’s definitely a hard sell to schools to want to join the GCC and be the smallest school in it, having to face mentor, Euclid and Solon every year, especially in football. I guess they’re going to have to adapt and do the 6 game rotating conference schedule like you mentioned. It’s not impossible to get teams later in the year (Garfield hts has been doing it for the last 4 years), it’s just a pain to do. Mentor might have to start playing out of state teams like Ed’s and Iggy do.


There are a ton of scenarios. Nobody on here will know anything

An 8th team could apply

The league could break up

The league could split in half into 2 leagues

They can stay at 7

Who knows. Will probably hear more in spring or so


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  #69  
Old 01-13-19, 04:23 PM
Mr. Red Raider Mr. Red Raider is offline
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Originally Posted by MentorGrad2002 View Post
It's hard to see a team that makes sense. I'm sure the GCC would take whoever applies provided the rest of the league is content to stay put

Berea has been talked about but there's still some sports they'd do bad in. One is football. But they are a big school. Westside schools would like it. Mentor and Euclid won't have many complaints

I'd like Warren Harding but doubt they'd want to come aboard

7 is fine if the teams want to stay. The fed does it. The main issue is each team would have an open week in one of the weeks 4-10 to fill. Mentor could just shift ignatius. Others would have to scramble some

Nobody here will have answers. These things are going to be handled by the athletic directors and other decision makers for the schools

We all will just be guessing


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Honestly, I think that Berea-Midpark would be a solid fit for the Greater Cleveland Conference. They're the biggest school in the SWC and they're already used to traveling to Lorain County, so trips to Elyria wouldn't be that much more difficult. And with a couple of good classes, I could see them being somewhat competitive in football.

Only downside is that it would be a 5-3 majority West Side league. Or another scenario could be that Elyria, Medina, Brunswick and Strongsville join the Southwestern Conference (along with Lorain), thus creating a 15-team league with a hypothetical Cuyahoga/Medina County division, and a Lorain County division. I could potentially see that working out, even with an imbalanced number of teams, because it makes sense travel-wise, but there would be quite a bit to work out as far as competitive sports, and deciding who goes where as far as divisional makeup.

As for the Eastside schools, not that this would happen, but here is another future hypothetical conference scenario:

The Greater Cleveland Conference breaks up.

Solon and Shaker Heights are decreasing in enrollment and will eventually drop to Division II in football within maybe 3-5 years. Going to the Western Reserve Conference isn't that bad travel wise. And you could potentially break the conference up into Lake Divison (Will. South, Chardon, Eastlake North, Madison, Riverside), and the County Division (Shaker Hts, Solon, Brush, Mayfield, Kenston). Both would be the biggest schools in the league, but it would make for some competitive football, and baseball as well. For the other sports, that's another story for another day.

This (if Shaker decided to wait and see if they could try to go to another conference) could have potentially worked out down the line.

As far as Mentor and Euclid, I could see Euclid going back to the LEL, and Mentor probably going independent.

The Lake Erie League would look like: Euclid, Bedford, Maple Heights, Cleveland Heights, Warrensville Heights, Shaw, and Garfield Heights. All of these schools are within Cuyahoga County.

Again, this is all hypothetical.
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  #70  
Old 01-13-19, 05:02 PM
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I can't see the wrc taking anymore teams. 8 is the perfect number for a league and all the teams fit together

They wouldn't take Solon for the same reason as mentor. They'd kill everybody in many sports

And if shaker is complaining about diversity in the GCC, um you really want to be in a league with Madison , Chardon kenston , riverside , north, south etc ? Not much diversity there either to say the least


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  #71  
Old 01-13-19, 05:59 PM
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Shaker has already accepted the LEL, so any suggestion of the WRC is not even a discussion. The LEL is a good fit for Shaker. Garfield too. This makes complete sense. I think both thought they were “too good” to be associated with the likes of Maple, Shaw, Warrensville, etc.

Hopefully for Mentor’s sake they can survive as a 7 team league. Nobody is coming to join. Why would Berea leave? No reason. Geographically and competitively, the SWC is a perfect fit. Unless Berea starts dominating the league, they have a home.

Would be kinda cool if the GCC and the Fed worked a deal to fill that odd week. But I bet the Fed wants no part of Mentor, Euclid, or Solon.
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  #72  
Old 01-13-19, 06:37 PM
Friday night light Friday night light is offline
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Parma consolidating schools would make a west side big school league a definite possibility and spell the end of the GCC. Medina, Brunswick, Strongsville, Berea Midpark, Parma, Elyria, Lorain and either Stow or even Avon would be very competitive as an eighth school. Solon would no doubt go to the Suburban and Euclid to the LEL? Mentor would have a tough time finding a new league and may have to go independent simply due to the fact that they are just to dominant in football.
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  #73  
Old 01-13-19, 07:35 PM
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I have to think that the GCC, if it sticks together, will be staying at seven. Worst case scenario for them is that Garfield Hts. declines and then Euclid bolts for the LEL.

Having seven is definitely doable now, a lot more so than 10-15 years ago, with so many conferences having seven (GLC, Fed, small school Suburban) so a partner is easier to find.

The Fed partnership would be nice, but can’t see it working with McKinley out of that arrangement. Most likely teams will be on their own, and most could probably find a partner easily (Solon-Aurora, Euclid/Mentor-Ed’s/Iggy/WGH, Medina-Highland, Brunswick/Strongsville-SL/Fed) for most schools.

The biggest issue for the GCC is that this is not a perfect conference for any of the schools, and no one else will want in the GCC. No way a Parma or Berea wants to get in, they will have to be forced out of their current set-ups. They’re much better staying at seven than trying to force an eighth that doesn’t work. The GCC is the least stable conference in NEO right now.


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  #74  
Old 01-13-19, 11:33 PM
SVillegrad SVillegrad is offline
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Originally Posted by Friday night light View Post
Parma consolidating schools would make a west side big school league a definite possibility and spell the end of the GCC. Medina, Brunswick, Strongsville, Berea Midpark, Parma, Elyria, Lorain and either Stow or even Avon would be very competitive as an eighth school. Solon would no doubt go to the Suburban and Euclid to the LEL? Mentor would have a tough time finding a new league and may have to go independent simply due to the fact that they are just to dominant in football.
Stow is a northern suburb of Akron, so there is no way they would leave the Suburban for 3 to 4 times more travel to a west side Cleveland league. It also makes no sense for Avon to leave the SWC and its tight geography for this new league either, but I do agree that a new westside league is possible.

It's really impossible to say what will happen with the GCC, but here are what I think could happen.

1. Medina/Solon make a push to join as the 16th member of the Suburban, thus pushing Cuyahoga Falls into the small school division. Medina publicly admitted it wanted a Suburban invite when it restructured a couple years ago, though, citing geography being the reason is a bit laughable since you would be talking an average trip of 23 miles vs. the current average of 31 miles (it was all about being more competitive but Medina has some great talent coming up so maybe they aren't as ready to leave its bloc with Strongsville and Brunswick). Solon probably makes more sense because it is a natural geographical fit and now isn't too much larger than the other Suburban schools. I'm sure Solon would still be able to schedule GCC schools, such as Mentor and Euclid, in the non-conference, but they are going to be even more on an island (geographically and voting wise) than they already are regardless so don't see them wanting to stay.

2. If Solon can get in the Suburban, the GCC is for all intents and purposes is dead in the water. The westside schools would have no incentive to stay with Euclid and Mentor (especially since those two schools are way ahead of them in football right now). I could see Strongsville/Brunswick/Medina/Elyria making a push to form some sort of alliance with the Southwest Conference and the Great Lakes Conference, and add Lorain, but operate as three separate leagues.

3. Mentor goes independent in football and basketball (though maybe it can land some of its other programs in the the WRC) and Euclid goes independent in football, but maybe can join the LEL in all other sports. For football, they could form a pseudo-league with St. Ignatius and St. Edward.

What you would be left with is a set up that resembles what leagues looked like in the 90s before the Northeast Ohio Conference formed and blew everything up. Here is a better visual:

Suburban National (8): North Royalton, Brecksville, Solon, Nordonia, Twinsburg, Hudson, Stow, Wadsworth.

Suburban American (8): Cuyahoga Falls, Barberton, Highland, Copley, Kent, Revere, Tallmadge, Aurora.

SWC (8): Avon, Avon Lake, Amherst, North Olmsted, North Ridgeville, Midview, Olmsted Falls, Westlake.

Pioneer Conference (7): Strongsville, Medina, Brunswick, Elyria, Berea-Midpark, Lakewood, Lorain.

Great Lakes Conference (9): Bay, Rocky River, Elyria Catholic, Holy Name, Parma, Valley Forge, Normandy, Fairview and Buckeye

*If (or when) Parma goes to two schools, they could then switch to the Pioneer and Lakewood would either go back to the SWC or it could go down the GLC if it's still not competitive in football. If Lakewood goes back to the SWC, the league would be back to 9 schools, the Pioneer would be at 8 and the GLC at 7 ... the same exact number all the schools (sans GLC newcomers Buckeye and Fairview) have been used to. If Lakewood goes to the GLC, all three leagues would be at 8.

Lake Erie League (7 or 8): Shaker Heights, Garfield Heights, Maple Heights, Cleveland Heights, Bedford, Warrensville Heights, Shaw. ... Euclid could be 8, but I'm not sure how much the smaller schools, especially Warrensville, would want to see Euclid return.

Major independents (5): Euclid (if not back in the LEL), Mentor, St. Edward, St. Ignatius, St. Vincent-St. Mary.
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  #75  
Old 01-14-19, 12:46 AM
SVillegrad SVillegrad is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
You’re not the brightest are you?

Let’s see: Shaker Hts High school is currently 62% minority
Brunswick: 8%
Medina: 8%
Strongsville: 15%
Mentor: 9%

I’ll play the percentages and say that, at some point, there have been racial slurs coming from students in one of these communities. I’ve seen it happen first hand, especially in football which is a physical and violent game where emotions run hot. You’re naive to think it doesn’t happen, especially when primarily white communities face more urban schools.

Didn’t know I had to spell it out for you
Yes, those four school districts are overwhelmingly white, but Shaker knew that when it joined, so using the lack of diversity as a "real concern" is a cop out, especially since Strongsville, Mentor and Medina have been rapidly adding minority students.

Your numbers are bit off. Last year, those schools' minority percent were:
Strongsville- 18%
Medina - 11%
Mentor - 11%
Brunswick - 9%

And Strongsville, Medina and Mentor look like they are just going to continue to get more diverse. The Ohio Department of Education tracks five-year demographic trends. In the past five years, here is how many minority students each district added:

Mentor - 250 (50 per year)
Strongsville - 148 (30 per year)
Medina - 132 (26 per year)
Brunswick - 19 (5 per year)
Shaker - -224 (-45 per year)

Each district's white population change over the same five years:
Shaker: 29 (6 per year)
Medina: -268 (-54 per year)
Mentor: -299 (-60 per year)
Strongsville: -482 (-96 per year)
Brunswick: -519 (-104 per year)

It's actually Shaker Heights that is becoming less diverse (granted it was much more diverse to begin with).

Look, I'm not going to deny that some racial things have been tossed around and Brunswick and Mentor do have somewhat of a reputation, especially in the 90s and earlier when those two schools were 99 percent white, but I have a hard time believing a few ignorant slurs had anything to do with Shaker leaving. Plus, I'm sure the Shaker kids were completely innocent and never threw out any derogatory slurs of their own.

Plus, Shaker is by far going to be the whitest school in the LEL, I'm sure the white kids on Shaker's athletic teams have never in the past and never are going to hear derogatory things from kids from Shaw, Maple, Warrensville, lol. But I guess that won't be a concern.

Lets face it. The only reason Shaker is leaving because it has not been competitive, especially with Mentor and now Euclid. I'm sure it's at the point where Strongsville, Brunswick and Medina feel the same way and would have left if they had an opportunity. But I'm willing to bet that if those schools leave, they won't be throwing out flimsy excuses. It'll be something like "We've decided to pursue an opportunity to play in a league that is closer in proximity and one we believe we can be more competitive in" and left it at that ... you know, exactly what Shaker should have said.
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  #76  
Old 01-14-19, 06:42 AM
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Lake Erie League is expanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVillegrad View Post
Yes, those four school districts are overwhelmingly white, but Shaker knew that when it joined, so using the lack of diversity as a "real concern" is a cop out, especially since Strongsville, Mentor and Medina have been rapidly adding minority students.

Your numbers are bit off. Last year, those schools' minority percent were:
Strongsville- 18%
Medina - 11%
Mentor - 11%
Brunswick - 9%

And Strongsville, Medina and Mentor look like they are just going to continue to get more diverse. The Ohio Department of Education tracks five-year demographic trends. In the past five years, here is how many minority students each district added:

Mentor - 250 (50 per year)
Strongsville - 148 (30 per year)
Medina - 132 (26 per year)
Brunswick - 19 (5 per year)
Shaker - -224 (-45 per year)

Each district's white population change over the same five years:
Shaker: 29 (6 per year)
Medina: -268 (-54 per year)
Mentor: -299 (-60 per year)
Strongsville: -482 (-96 per year)
Brunswick: -519 (-104 per year)

It's actually Shaker Heights that is becoming less diverse (granted it was much more diverse to begin with).

Look, I'm not going to deny that some racial things have been tossed around and Brunswick and Mentor do have somewhat of a reputation, especially in the 90s and earlier when those two schools were 99 percent white, but I have a hard time believing a few ignorant slurs had anything to do with Shaker leaving. Plus, I'm sure the Shaker kids were completely innocent and never threw out any derogatory slurs of their own.

Plus, Shaker is by far going to be the whitest school in the LEL, I'm sure the white kids on Shaker's athletic teams have never in the past and never are going to hear derogatory things from kids from Shaw, Maple, Warrensville, lol. But I guess that won't be a concern.

Lets face it. The only reason Shaker is leaving because it has not been competitive, especially with Mentor and now Euclid. I'm sure it's at the point where Strongsville, Brunswick and Medina feel the same way and would have left if they had an opportunity. But I'm willing to bet that if those schools leave, they won't be throwing out flimsy excuses. It'll be something like "We've decided to pursue an opportunity to play in a league that is closer in proximity and one we believe we can be more competitive in" and left it at that ... you know, exactly what Shaker should have said.


Sville I think it's REAL convenient how you chose to include mentor and Brunswick as having a race reputation while not including medina and Strongsville

No coincidence here as you went to Strongsville and live in Medina now ...

If anything medina and Brunswick have the biggest reputation NOW and THEN of the schools.

Mentor has been in leagues with shaker many years of my life. Lel for many years , fought for them to get in the noc.. and the GCC name was owned by mentor too. We were leaders in forming the GCC to include Euclid too Following us to 2 other leagues after the lel would be funny if they thought that of our community ...

So I highly doubt shaker was referring to mentor with their comments ...

Meanwhile Strongsville and medina were part of the pioneer while we were in the lel. Even more diverse areas on the westside like Lorain were in the lel. And Elyria only got in the pioneer the last 5 years when people left like wadsworth ...

Just wanted to give some real history instead of letting that slide


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Last edited by MentorGrad2002; 01-14-19 at 07:55 AM.
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  #77  
Old 01-14-19, 07:53 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Great conversation involving conference realignment and such by all. Seems like the only option for the GCC is to stay at 7 and either try to find another conference that might want to rotate in some games or just make teams find their own fill in game. There are no clear cut schools that would be a match (or would want to go to the GCC at this point). TBH, Shaker always did seem like an odd fit for the GCC besides them being D1 in football. Elyria too (but thats for another day).

Also seems like every other GCC school has an out if the conference were to break up except for Mentor. It sucks (for this purpose) that Mentor has been so dominant in football, because they would honestly be a good fit athletically in the WRC for all of it's other sports (enrollment aside). I think someone mentioned before, they could just go independent for football and try to latch onto the WRC for other sports (a la Notre Dame with the ACC). Mentor basketball has been great for a while, but honestly basketball doesn't rely on a conference as much as football does. It's all about the tournament at the end. Maybe they go indy in basketball as well. Basketball is a lot easier to schedule as an independent than football.
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  #78  
Old 01-14-19, 08:01 AM
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Lake Erie League is expanding

I was the one talking about the wrc and Mentor. I think that's the best scenario for Mentor but the wrc won't do it

8 is a great number for a league. And they all fit together perfectly. Many of those schools wanted to get away from Mentor in the old GCC

And while they can compete in many sports with mentor in spurts , mentor would be top 2-3 in everything boys and girls. You'd have riverside volleyball and others rise up here and there But Mentor would be top tier in all sports and the league wouldn't want that

For fans of Mentor it won't matter if they go independent. Most fans who have no kids at the schools really follow football and boys basketball the most. Those schedules for Mentor would be more exciting from that standpoint

The westside schools have been massive disappointments in football since we united with them upon going to the NOC and then the GCC.

It would be a pain for the AD though


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Old 01-14-19, 09:21 AM
PGEMF PGEMF is offline
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Originally Posted by SVillegrad View Post
Stow is a northern suburb of Akron, so there is no way they would leave the Suburban for 3 to 4 times more travel to a west side Cleveland league. It also makes no sense for Avon to leave the SWC and its tight geography for this new league either, but I do agree that a new westside league is possible.

It's really impossible to say what will happen with the GCC, but here are what I think could happen.

1. Medina/Solon make a push to join as the 16th member of the Suburban, thus pushing Cuyahoga Falls into the small school division. Medina publicly admitted it wanted a Suburban invite when it restructured a couple years ago, though, citing geography being the reason is a bit laughable since you would be talking an average trip of 23 miles vs. the current average of 31 miles (it was all about being more competitive but Medina has some great talent coming up so maybe they aren't as ready to leave its bloc with Strongsville and Brunswick). Solon probably makes more sense because it is a natural geographical fit and now isn't too much larger than the other Suburban schools. I'm sure Solon would still be able to schedule GCC schools, such as Mentor and Euclid, in the non-conference, but they are going to be even more on an island (geographically and voting wise) than they already are regardless so don't see them wanting to stay.

2. If Solon can get in the Suburban, the GCC is for all intents and purposes is dead in the water. The westside schools would have no incentive to stay with Euclid and Mentor (especially since those two schools are way ahead of them in football right now). I could see Strongsville/Brunswick/Medina/Elyria making a push to form some sort of alliance with the Southwest Conference and the Great Lakes Conference, and add Lorain, but operate as three separate leagues.

3. Mentor goes independent in football and basketball (though maybe it can land some of its other programs in the the WRC) and Euclid goes independent in football, but maybe can join the LEL in all other sports. For football, they could form a pseudo-league with St. Ignatius and St. Edward.

What you would be left with is a set up that resembles what leagues looked like in the 90s before the Northeast Ohio Conference formed and blew everything up. Here is a better visual:

Suburban National (8): North Royalton, Brecksville, Solon, Nordonia, Twinsburg, Hudson, Stow, Wadsworth.

Suburban American (8): Cuyahoga Falls, Barberton, Highland, Copley, Kent, Revere, Tallmadge, Aurora.

SWC (8): Avon, Avon Lake, Amherst, North Olmsted, North Ridgeville, Midview, Olmsted Falls, Westlake.

Pioneer Conference (7): Strongsville, Medina, Brunswick, Elyria, Berea-Midpark, Lakewood, Lorain.

Great Lakes Conference (9): Bay, Rocky River, Elyria Catholic, Holy Name, Parma, Valley Forge, Normandy, Fairview and Buckeye

*If (or when) Parma goes to two schools, they could then switch to the Pioneer and Lakewood would either go back to the SWC or it could go down the GLC if it's still not competitive in football. If Lakewood goes back to the SWC, the league would be back to 9 schools, the Pioneer would be at 8 and the GLC at 7 ... the same exact number all the schools (sans GLC newcomers Buckeye and Fairview) have been used to. If Lakewood goes to the GLC, all three leagues would be at 8.

Lake Erie League (7 or 8): Shaker Heights, Garfield Heights, Maple Heights, Cleveland Heights, Bedford, Warrensville Heights, Shaw. ... Euclid could be 8, but I'm not sure how much the smaller schools, especially Warrensville, would want to see Euclid return.

Major independents (5): Euclid (if not back in the LEL), Mentor, St. Edward, St. Ignatius, St. Vincent-St. Mary.
The following would make an excellent westside league, it could even be a the existing Southwestern Conference

Big School

Berea
Brunswick
Elyria
Lorain
Medina
Strongsville

Lorain County

Amherst
Avon
Avon Lake
Elyria Catholic
Midview
North Ridgeville

Cuyahoga County

Bay
Lakewood
Olmsted Falls
North Olmsted
Rocky River
Westlake


The big school division wouldn't play crossover's in the major sports, but the Cuyahoga/Lorain divisions would against each other. I'm not sure Elyria Catholic is the best fit there, but wasn't sure who else to put. 1 or 2 Parma schools could fit in the big school division as well
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  #80  
Old 01-14-19, 10:53 AM
James x2 James x2 is offline
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just a thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
Lol the only teams that would have a prayer of competing in football this year would have been maple and Cleveland hts. But those programs are so up and down, you can’t rely on them to be competitive year in and year out. Maple would have gotten killed in previous years in football. Same thing in basketball: there would be some years they could hang, others they wouldn’t. Obviously there are other sports too, but when people point to competitive balance, they look at those 2 because they’re the most recognized and covered by the media.
I mentioned Cle. Hts because I thought they were strongly considered for the GCC a few back when Euclid came aboard.While their football is up and down ,their Basketball has been pretty good over the years.Mentor is the only school that can boast of success year in and out in both FB/BB.Every school has some sport that fluctuates with success and some failure.
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  #81  
Old 01-14-19, 11:00 AM
RiderJay RiderJay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
Any legitimate ideas for what the GCC could do to replace shaker? Is staying with 7 schools an option?
Berea-Midpark would be a good fit, IMO.
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  #82  
Old 01-14-19, 11:45 AM
Con_Alma Con_Alma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PGEMF View Post
The following would make an excellent westside league, it could even be a the existing Southwestern Conference

Big School

Berea
Brunswick
Elyria
Lorain
Medina
Strongsville

Lorain County

Amherst
Avon
Avon Lake
Elyria Catholic
Midview
North Ridgeville

Cuyahoga County

Bay
Lakewood
Olmsted Falls
North Olmsted
Rocky River
Westlake


The big school division wouldn't play crossover's in the major sports, but the Cuyahoga/Lorain divisions would against each other. I'm not sure Elyria Catholic is the best fit there, but wasn't sure who else to put. 1 or 2 Parma schools could fit in the big school division as well
This would be a horrible idea for the SWC. They have had significant stability over the years and becoming part of a large league like this doesn't help them. The SWC should continue to look to get back to 8 teams. It enables flexibility in scheduling from a non-conference perspective for each respective conference school and maintains the impactful decision making of 1/8 as opposed to a much small percentage.
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  #83  
Old 01-14-19, 11:47 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James x2 View Post
I mentioned Cle. Hts because I thought they were strongly considered for the GCC a few back when Euclid came aboard.While their football is up and down ,their Basketball has been pretty good over the years.Mentor is the only school that can boast of success year in and out in both FB/BB.Every school has some sport that fluctuates with success and some failure.
Cleveland Hts would definitely fit the GCC mold in terms of enrollment and location for sure.They would never leave the LEL though. Outside of basketball and the occasional football year, they would flounder in most other sports. They seem content with 5-8 wins every year in the LEL and being on the fringe of making the playoffs in R1. Kinda the same thing Shaker is doing with joining. They would rather win 7-8 games every year in the LEL and get killed as the 8 seed in R1 than win 4-6 games in the GCC and have no shot.

Side note: Cleveland Hts did schedule 2 GCC teams this past year: They lost to Medina by 23 and beat Brunswick by 13. Just food for thought on them. The also lost a close one to regional finalist Maple Hts as well by 1 TD.

Last edited by tribefan23; 01-14-19 at 11:58 AM.
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  #84  
Old 01-14-19, 11:50 AM
Con_Alma Con_Alma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVillegrad View Post
...
*If (or when) Parma goes to two schools, they could then switch to the Pioneer and Lakewood would either go back to the SWC or it could go down the GLC if it's still not competitive in football. If Lakewood goes back to the SWC, the league would be back to 9 schools, ...
I don't think you'll find the SWC willing to take Lakewood back should/when they leave. I also don't think you'll see the SWC go to 9 schools again anytime soon should they get back to 8.
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  #85  
Old 01-14-19, 12:52 PM
SVillegrad SVillegrad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Con_Alma View Post
This would be a horrible idea for the SWC. They have had significant stability over the years and becoming part of a large league like this doesn't help them. The SWC should continue to look to get back to 8 teams. It enables flexibility in scheduling from a non-conference perspective for each respective conference school and maintains the impactful decision making of 1/8 as opposed to a much small percentage.
I agree with this, though, I believe cjb has said in the past that the SWC schools don't mind the 9 or 10 team round-robin setup because it makes scheduling easier and it has been beneficial as far as accumulating Harbins.

With that, I can think of a scenario, kind of going off what I posted yesterday, where the SWC can get back down to eight with Berea-Midpark and Lakewood still finding soft landing spots. But that, IMO, can only happen if Parma decides to go down to two schools, which makes sense for them financially but I know the politics run deep so who knows how soon that will happen. But the district once again is looking into the issue and is actually holding its first community meeting tonight, so it's something that could happen sooner rather than later.

Here is what I think could work:

Pioneer (8): Strongsville, Brunswick, Medina, Elyria, Berea-Midpark, Lorain, Parma 1, Parma 2

- This would be the eight westside Division I teams and offers a tighter geography for every school compared to what they currently have.

SWC (8): Avon, Avon Lake, Amherst, North Ridgeville, North Olmsted, Olmsted Falls, Midview, Westlake

- This is the core eight of the SWC and I doubt they would be shedding tears if Berea-Midpark and Lakewood found new homes.

GLC (8): Lakewood, Bay, Rocky River, Fairview, Holy Name, Elyria Catholic, Buckeye, Lutheran West

- I knew Lakewood had fallen on hard times, but didn't realize exactly how bad it's been. They are 6-54 in the past six years and five of those wins have been against opponents that either won 0 or 1 game, so they really belong in this group despite being significantly larger. Lutheran West is soon to be out of place in the CVC, so if things fall into place, they would make a logical choice to fill the final spot.
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  #86  
Old 01-14-19, 01:30 PM
SVillegrad SVillegrad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MentorGrad2002 View Post
Sville I think it's REAL convenient how you chose to include mentor and Brunswick as having a race reputation while not including medina and Strongsville

No coincidence here as you went to Strongsville and live in Medina now ...

If anything medina and Brunswick have the biggest reputation NOW and THEN of the schools.

Mentor has been in leagues with shaker many years of my life. Lel for many years , fought for them to get in the noc.. and the GCC name was owned by mentor too. We were leaders in forming the GCC to include Euclid too Following us to 2 other leagues after the lel would be funny if they thought that of our community ...

So I highly doubt shaker was referring to mentor with their comments ...

Meanwhile Strongsville and medina were part of the pioneer while we were in the lel. Even more diverse areas on the westside like Lorain were in the lel. And Elyria only got in the pioneer the last 5 years when people left like wadsworth ...

Just wanted to give some real history instead of letting that slide


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You're blowing it out of proportion. If you want to add Medina to the schools with reputations that's fine (I've been critical of the community several times on this board). I've been to enough sporting events involving all of these schools where I don't think this is a widespread issue and I'll maintain that Shaker is using it as a deflection from the real reason they are leaving ... because they have not been competitive. I'm actually not going to discuss that aspect anymore.

As for Mentor and its leagues, you know as well as I do that since the original GCC broke apart, Mentor has been about self-league perseverance. That just happened to be the LEL since it was the only one on the eastside that was willing to accept them, and they were proactive in wanting the formation of the NOC and then keeping the NOC big schools together (who also didn't have very many options) with the reformation of the GCC. Again, because that was their only option.

The irony is that Mentor may have actually started the demise of the league when it was the main force in pushing for Euclid over Cleveland Heights ... again that was Mentor looking out for Mentor (Euclid was the closest school and one they knew would vote in lockstep with them on issues ... where as Cleveland Heights probably would've sided with Shaker). Who knows, but you have to wonder whether Shaker would have left if the GCC would've taken Cleveland Heights over Euclid?
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Old 01-14-19, 01:38 PM
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Lake Erie League is expanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVillegrad View Post
You're blowing it out of proportion. If you want to add Medina to the schools with reputations that's fine (I've been critical of the community several times on this board). I've been to enough sporting events involving all of these schools where I don't think this is a widespread issue and I'll maintain that Shaker is using it as a deflection from the real reason they are leaving ... because they have not been competitive. I'm actually not going to discuss that aspect anymore.

As for Mentor and its leagues, you know as well as I do that since the original GCC broke apart, Mentor has been about self-league perseverance. That just happened to be the LEL since it was the only one on the eastside that was willing to accept them, and they were proactive in wanting the formation of the NOC and then keeping the NOC big schools together (who also didn't have very many options) with the reformation of the GCC. Again, because that was their only option.

The irony is that Mentor may have actually started the demise of the league when it was the main force in pushing for Euclid over Cleveland Heights ... again that was Mentor looking out for Mentor (Euclid was the closest school and one they knew would vote in lockstep with them on issues ... where as Cleveland Heights probably would've sided with Shaker). Who knows, but you have to wonder whether Shaker would have left if the GCC would've taken Cleveland Heights over Euclid?


Shaker would usually vote in lock step with mentor and Euclid too so I don't see the point on that Mentor had 1 vote. If the westsiders wanted heights , they'd have heights ...

Euclid was the best option for all schools. Easier trip tot he school and football potential. And it was the correct call

As for your league argument on Mentor ,it doesn't hold up. Mentor was in the noc before shaker. When a spot opened up, mentor helped them get into the league. If it were the other way around you'd have more of a point.

All 4 schools and that includes Strongsville along with places like Parma have had these accusations in the past. Mentor and shaker have a long standing relationship through 3 leagues so I doubt their issue was with us

As for league breakup who knows ? If shaker leaving kills the whole league then it will be because others had issues too. The westside schools have been huge disappointments in football and the east side portion carries the league in revenue sports. Maybe the westsiders would wanna go back against teams more on their level in key sports?

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  #88  
Old 01-14-19, 07:05 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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It's obvious why Euclid was chosen over Cleveland Hts by the GCC -- Euclid is right off of 90, which makes it a much easier get for the four west-side schools in particular; Cleveland Hts has no easy highway access, you got three inconvenient options (drive through downtown and up Cedar Hill, 480 to Lee Road and go through that way, or 271 to Cedar/Brainard and down Cedar)
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  #89  
Old 01-15-19, 07:05 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Weighing in...
Quote:
Originally Posted by westa-k-ron1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribefan23
I did read the article. Multiple times

The fact that they even said some communities lack racial sensitivity is still wrong. You'll never get it apparently so there's no point in wasting my time explaining it...

If you think it's ok to publicly call out an entire conference for being "racially and culturally insensitive," then you are part of the problem.
No, I just caught you in a blantant lie or you didn't read the article...here you are, in your own words :

But that's not what they did...this is Shaker's words:
Quote:
The lack of diversity and cultural sensitivity in SOME of the communities in the GCC is a real concern.
This is NOT calling out the whole GCC and it's not wrong if that has been their experience. The following quote show's you either have a problem with reading comprehension or you did not read the statement by Shaker schools as the reasons they gave fall right in line with what you wanted to hear...



Just keep it real and admit you are one of those folks who get's upset when racism is called out and becuase of that in your anger you couldn't actually process the full explanation of Shakers exit from the GCC. As the old folks would say...a hit dog will holler.
Respectfully, he's right. With those comments, exactly as you quoted them, they did call out the entire conference. Much as you presumed his mindset for reasons of disagreeing with their decisions, it's a "guilt by association" attack. There's some correct forensic word for this false premise method of attack but I've forgotten the word.

If their intent was NOT to call out the entire conference (and show some balls) they would or should have specifically named, which communities they felt culpable and they would have stayed because how do you help to solve a problem, from the outside?
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  #90  
Old 01-15-19, 07:28 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Weighing in...


Respectfully, he's right. With those comments, exactly as you quoted them, they did call out the entire conference. Much as you presumed his mindset for reasons of disagreeing with their decisions, it's a "guilt by association" attack. There's some correct forensic word for this false premise method of attack but I've forgotten the word.

If their intent was NOT to call out the entire conference (and show some balls) they would or should have specifically named, which communities they felt culpable and they would have stayed because how do you help to solve a problem, from the outside?
Some people just don't get it. Thank you for understanding what I was saying. Not everyone is smart enough to. Shaker called out the entire GCC with their reasons for leaving. If the LEL ever breaks up or Shaker decides to leave the LEL, good luck to them ever latching onto another conference with these "white suburban" schools. People won't forget their comments and reasons for leaving the GCC for a long time.
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