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  #31  
Old 02-11-19, 09:57 PM
cincifbfan cincifbfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zebrastripes View Post
Correct. Must have five or more on the line and four or less in the backfield.

A “back” is any player who does not, at the snap, penetrate an imaginary line drawn parallel to the line of scrimmage through the waist of the nearest teammate legally on the line (except for a back taking a snap under center).
Is your edit new that I am not aware of? Your first post was correct as far as I was concerned... I thought you had to penetrate the imaginary line of the snapper's waist.
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  #32  
Old 02-11-19, 09:57 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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40 seconds is fair. Not sure we want to rush HS teams to have to call and run a play faster than NFL teams do and that also includes officials slower in getting the ball set.

Shouldn't be a problem finding someone to run that portion for your program.
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  #33  
Old 02-12-19, 07:32 AM
VVTommyBoy VVTommyBoy is offline
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My brain is not working very well yet this morning but, horse-collar tackles...can you tackle someone by the hair in high school football? Seems like it might appear to be a horse-collar ( hopefully the refs would huddle up and talk about it ).

I don't get the at least 5 on the line but only 4 in the backfield, either. Please give me an example to explain what the other 2 could be doing? ( Keep in mind, I'll probably smack my forehead that I could miss something so obvious ). I don't think you should make a habit of playing a man or two short,
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  #34  
Old 02-12-19, 07:52 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVTommyBoy View Post
My brain is not working very well yet this morning but, horse-collar tackles...can you tackle someone by the hair in high school football? Seems like it might appear to be a horse-collar ( hopefully the refs would huddle up and talk about it ).
Hair is not included in the very specific definition of a horse-collar tackle, and yes, a player can be tackled by their hair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VVTommyBoy View Post
I don't get the at least 5 on the line but only 4 in the backfield, either. Please give me an example to explain what the other 2 could be doing? ( Keep in mind, I'll probably smack my forehead that I could miss something so obvious ). I don't think you should make a habit of playing a man or two short,
The only thing the "other 2" could be doing is standing on the sideline. This rule change will have no effect on how the game is coached or played. It only changes how the game is officiated and will result in a few less penalties.
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  #35  
Old 02-12-19, 07:55 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVTommyBoy View Post
My brain is not working very well yet this morning but, horse-collar tackles...can you tackle someone by the hair in high school football? Seems like it might appear to be a horse-collar ( hopefully the refs would huddle up and talk about it ).
Tackling by the hair (provided that hair is outside the helmet) is legal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VVTommyBoy View Post
I don't get the at least 5 on the line but only 4 in the backfield, either. Please give me an example to explain what the other 2 could be doing? ( Keep in mind, I'll probably smack my forehead that I could miss something so obvious ). I don't think you should make a habit of playing a man or two short,
Essentially, this change eliminates an illegal formation foul for having 4 in the backfield, but less than 7 on the line. On all plays, you already have the defense with one more player than the offense has blocking or defending those players. Snapping the ball with 10 brings that advantage to 2. Hence, the committee felt that declaring that formation a foul tipped the balance between defense and offense.

All that said, when a team has 11 on the field, 7 will still need to be on the line for the formation to be legal. (which is the vast majority of plays).

This is much ado about nothing.
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  #36  
Old 02-12-19, 08:06 AM
cincifbfan cincifbfan is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Hair is not included in the very specific definition of a horse-collar tackle, and yes, a player can be tackled by their hair.
The way the rule is written, yes a player can be tackled by his hair. But with the new nameplate rule now in place, of the player's hair covers the nameplate, how would an official know if he was pulled down by the nameplate of the jersey or hair.

This is a good catch that those in charge will definitely need to clarify.
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  #37  
Old 02-12-19, 08:25 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincifbfan View Post
The way the rule is written, yes a player can be tackled by his hair. But with the new nameplate rule now in place, of the player's hair covers the nameplate, how would an official know if he was pulled down by the nameplate of the jersey or hair.
In the same manner an official sees a runner grabbed by the front of the jersey near the collar and pulled down (causing the head to jerk downward) or when the defender reaches across the face of the runner, grabs him by the shoulder pad causing his head and body to spin abruptly in the direction that he was pulled. Those actions result usually in the cry of "Facemask!!" from the sidelines and stands...... when the tackle was perfectly legal.

Same goes for grabbing hair that's near the face plate. If the hair is grabbed, it's legal. If the jersey is grabbed, (could include hair) it's a foul.
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  #38  
Old 02-12-19, 08:37 AM
dograt dograt is offline
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
Agreed with that. My preference was always for the official that put the ball into play quickly. I've always thought it was a little unfair that late in a game, the official would put the ball into play quickly when the offense is trailing and take normal time if the offense is in the lead. That is the one place that I prefer the 40 second time clock. With that said, I would still prefer 35 seconds.

Really enjoyed watching the AAF this weekend because of the shorter time clock.
remember though when asking for 35 second clock, HS doesn't have radios in helmets. easily worth 5 seconds.
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  #39  
Old 02-12-19, 08:39 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincifbfan View Post
The way the rule is written, yes a player can be tackled by his hair. But with the new nameplate rule now in place, of the player's hair covers the nameplate, how would an official know if he was pulled down by the nameplate of the jersey or hair.

This is a good catch that those in charge will definitely need to clarify.
Clarify the difference between human hair and polyester fabric?
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  #40  
Old 02-12-19, 09:20 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by dograt View Post
remember though when asking for 35 second clock, HS doesn't have radios in helmets. easily worth 5 seconds.
NFL standard is 40 seconds.

No reason to believe that HS should be less than that.
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  #41  
Old 02-13-19, 01:53 PM
reggieDunlop reggieDunlop is offline
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Originally Posted by cincifbfan View Post
I have never seen a person get hurt by a horse-collar tackle.
When he was playing for the Eagles, Terrell Owens had his leg broken by a horse-collar tackle by the Cowboys. That led to the horse-collar being penalized by the NFL and it trickled down to college and high school soon after.
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  #42  
Old 02-13-19, 02:40 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by reggieDunlop View Post
When he was playing for the Eagles, Terrell Owens had his leg broken by a horse-collar tackle by the Cowboys. That led to the horse-collar being penalized by the NFL and it trickled down to college and high school soon after.
Believe it was Michael Vick and since it was a high profile QB getting hurt, a rule was made.

Funny he brings this up, I was just discussing this with my stepson the other day in talking about my playing days!

The best athlete in the school stopped playing after 8th or frosh year and one very awkward tackle, now known as the horse collar, took him down. He wasn't severely injured but was a main determination in him not playing anymore going forward to preserve himself for hoops and baseball
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  #43  
Old 02-13-19, 02:47 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
NFL standard is 40 seconds.

No reason to believe that HS should be less than that.
If the NFL switches to 35 seconds, will you be good with HS making the same change?

Watching the AAF this weekend, the game moved along alot crisper. There really isn't a need for 40 seconds outside maybe those 50+ yard passes in the NFL. Plus, the NFL makes alot of adjustments at the line after reading the defense. Not the same level of complexity in HS. Call your play and run it. Slowing the game down just doesn't make sense to me. Most officials can spot the ball in 10 seconds after a play. That translates to a 35 second clock.
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  #44  
Old 02-13-19, 02:56 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
Believe it was Michael Vick and since it was a high profile QB getting hurt, a rule was made.

Funny he brings this up, I was just discussing this with my stepson the other day in talking about my playing days!

The best athlete in the school stopped playing after 8th or frosh year and one very awkward tackle, now known as the horse collar, took him down. He wasn't severely injured but was a main determination in him not playing anymore going forward to preserve himself for hoops and baseball
Owens was one of six players injured during the '04 season via a horse collar tackle. Ironically, Roy Williams of the Cowboys was the culprit in 4 of those injuries.

This caused the NFL Rule Change in 2005.
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