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  #121  
Old 11-04-18, 11:00 AM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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I guess "There are many ways to roam" or "many ways to Rome" and some kids may run "flat" if they don't have some sharp training this week, but some will be "flat" due to running too much or to fast this week. Regardless, IMO, a road race would not be the best idea to get some "sharpening". Maybe some 1000's or 400's on even a longer tempo run. If a race would be in order, a time trial, on a track would be much easier to control than a race with a bunch of weekend warriors.
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  #122  
Old 11-04-18, 11:53 AM
Running Man 101 Running Man 101 is offline
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Originally Posted by ENA2 View Post
I guess "There are many ways to roam" or "many ways to Rome" and some kids may run "flat" if they don't have some sharp training this week, but some will be "flat" due to running too much or to fast this week. Regardless, IMO, a road race would not be the best idea to get some "sharpening". Maybe some 1000's or 400's on even a longer tempo run. If a race would be in order, a time trial, on a track would be much easier to control than a race with a bunch of weekend warriors.
There is no one way to do just about anything. I do think the extra week probably does favor less depth squads/ teams with their top runners are banged up and get a chance to heal.

The postpone came late in the week, so it would have been hard to change much of the training. I don't have any kids at state this year, but I probably would have worked in a tempo run day (Friday) and some speed work Saturday.

I think the people here put to much emphasis on making the state meet "grand" in scale. VA runs different divisions on different days and sometimes different sites. Went to the WV state meet last weekend and they run around a local HS and it moves around. They ran across pavement and finished with a lap around a track (i.e. Centerville and other sites).
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  #123  
Old 11-04-18, 12:00 PM
seannymurrs seannymurrs is offline
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Another thing to consider is the mental side of things. I coach my schools junior high girls team, and this year there were three weeks between our league championship and the state invitational. This was only our second year going to the state invite, so we arenít used to running any meets after the league championship. I've already decided Iím going to find some other race for the girls to run between those two. Going from two meets a week to that long without any competition was hard for them. I saw a loss of motivation during workouts since they didnít have that biweekly feedback of why they were working so hard. Plus, they all started getting a little squirrelly overall without that way to release their pent-up energy.


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  #124  
Old 11-04-18, 01:05 PM
smokingbrewmaster smokingbrewmaster is offline
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Originally Posted by gatornation View Post
SO, if a kid who qualified for State wanted to stay shape for next week, they could run a road race this weekend as long as it was all on pavement, CORRECT??
According to the rule it only has to be predominantly on pavement. Road racing and cross country are not considered to be the same sport.
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  #125  
Old 11-04-18, 05:47 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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This weekend isnt going any better. They will have a massive parking issue. Rain up to 4 times this week. If I owned a tow truck i would make a good amount.
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  #126  
Old 11-04-18, 09:26 PM
XCFan98 XCFan98 is offline
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What if?

What if it is still bad? Or worse?
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  #127  
Old 11-04-18, 09:43 PM
SMARTY22 SMARTY22 is offline
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Originally Posted by XCFan98 View Post
What if it is still bad? Or worse?
It will be Postponed again another week
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  #128  
Old 11-04-18, 11:33 PM
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Lancermania Lancermania is offline
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Tim Stried, Director of Communications for the OHSAA, sent out a communication today saying the Cross Country State Championship will be at National Trails Raceway next Saturday. It looks like it's on regardless of how much water is on the course.

We now know that National Trails Raceway closed the facility forcing the OHSAA to postpone the event. What if NTR again sees all the flooding on the course and closes the facility once again. The postponement decision is then forced on the OHSAA again. How many postponements will member schools put up with before they pull out their team and consider the season over with. How many cross country runners have already/will soon begin practicing with their winter sports teams. The quagmire that the OHSAA brought on themselves will only get deeper until there is no way out.

Last edited by Lancermania; 11-04-18 at 11:49 PM..
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  #129  
Old 11-05-18, 07:00 AM
SMARTY22 SMARTY22 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
Tim Stried, Director of Communications for the OHSAA, sent out a communication today saying the Cross Country State Championship will be at National Trails Raceway next Saturday. It looks like it's on regardless of how much water is on the course.

We now know that National Trails Raceway closed the facility forcing the OHSAA to postpone the event. What if NTR again sees all the flooding on the course and closes the facility once again. The postponement decision is then forced on the OHSAA again. How many postponements will member schools put up with before they pull out their team and consider the season over with. How many cross country runners have already/will soon begin practicing with their winter sports teams. The quagmire that the OHSAA brought on themselves will only get deeper until there is no way out.
Now the OHSAA still not having a ďplan BĒ after 1 Postponement is totally unacceptable. How long will they wait this week to tell everyone itís Postponed again? Can any OHSAA Member Schools host if absolutely necessary?
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  #130  
Old 11-05-18, 07:26 AM
wolsey737 wolsey737 is offline
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Good thing is the forecast shows light rain Friday morning. Thatís it for rain all week. So hopefully we can get this done. I know the forecast can change but think positive!!


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  #131  
Old 11-05-18, 08:46 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Originally Posted by wolsey737 View Post
Good thing is the forecast shows light rain Friday morning. Thatís it for rain all week. So hopefully we can get this done. I know the forecast can change but think positive!!


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this isnt about the runners on the course.....its about their parking lots that are grass.
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  #132  
Old 11-05-18, 09:08 AM
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I can see the OHSAA with their stubborn pride going ahead and many cars getting stuck, then suing to recover towing costs, mental pain and anguish. NTR would be included in this if they proceed knowing that it's not going to work. A class action suit which includes all those who had to get towed out may come out of this mess.

Last edited by Lancermania; 11-05-18 at 09:46 AM..
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  #133  
Old 11-05-18, 09:39 AM
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Lancermania Lancermania is offline
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Cedarville has proven they can host the same number as are at the state meet.

Here are Cedarville's totals from hosting a SW district meet this year:
DIB - 184i, 26t, DIIB - 165i, 22t, DIIIB - 219i, 32t

Now compare these numbers with the state meet last year at NTR
DIB - 183i, 20t, DIIB - 180i, 20t, DIIIB - 183i, 20t

Now you say we can't switch the meet's location because of the expense OHSAA has at NTR in their contract.

This contract for this year is voidable because NTR didn't fulfill the agreement by providing a facility as specified in the contract. Remember NTR closed the course causing the OHSAA to postpone the event. That's how the state meet can be moved to Cedarville. Think about the advantages: a better course with no pools of water, parking on paved surface either at the course or at other locations throughout the campus. The choice is clear. The financial aspect of it is cleared up with a voidable contract. How do you collect for parking and admissions. You station people at all the entrances to do it.

Last edited by Lancermania; 11-05-18 at 09:52 AM..
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  #134  
Old 11-05-18, 10:48 AM
Finishtiming Finishtiming is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
Cedarville has proven they can host the same number as are at the state meet.

Here are Cedarville's totals from hosting a SW district meet this year:
DIB - 184i, 26t, DIIB - 165i, 22t, DIIIB - 219i, 32t

Now compare these numbers with the state meet last year at NTR
DIB - 183i, 20t, DIIB - 180i, 20t, DIIIB - 183i, 20t

Now you say we can't switch the meet's location because of the expense OHSAA has at NTR in their contract.

This contract for this year is voidable because NTR didn't fulfill the agreement by providing a facility as specified in the contract. Remember NTR closed the course causing the OHSAA to postpone the event. That's how the state meet can be moved to Cedarville. Think about the advantages: a better course with no pools of water, parking on paved surface either at the course or at other locations throughout the campus. The choice is clear. The financial aspect of it is cleared up with a voidable contract. How do you collect for parking and admissions. You station people at all the entrances to do it.
Cedarville could host the meet without a problem (the running part) the parking would be tight but the main problem is the road coming into facility. It is a one lane road in and out for miles. The time schedule would need adjusted to allow the teams to get there in time to run. Not saying it cannot be done just things that people do not think about when looking at courses. Just about any cross country course in the state can handle the amount of runners. It is the 12,000 people and thousands of cars all coming to the same place in a couple hour time frame that most cannot handle.
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  #135  
Old 11-05-18, 11:07 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Finish, the state meet at NTR is on a 2 lane Rd.

This meet needs to be in an urban area that has curbside parking, parking lots and a ticket gate. Charging admission on the street doesnt get it done.

A park in a urban area or a large HS or college in the Columbus area needs to be used.
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  #136  
Old 11-05-18, 11:56 AM
billcarson billcarson is offline
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Like Tiffin
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  #137  
Old 11-05-18, 12:11 PM
Unstacked Unstacked is offline
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So much for the perfect tapering schedule that ended with the State meet on Nov. 3rd?????
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  #138  
Old 11-05-18, 12:33 PM
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Finishtiming, tell us about the Clark Country Fairgrounds. Is there plenty of paved parking, so you don't have people parking in the mud? Are there ticket windows to collect admission fees? How is the road leading to the facility? How many entrances to the parking areas? How did the course look last week?
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  #139  
Old 11-05-18, 01:04 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finishtiming View Post
cedarville could host the meet without a problem (the running part) the parking would be tight but the main problem is the road coming into facility. It is a one lane road in and out for miles. The time schedule would need adjusted to allow the teams to get there in time to run. Not saying it cannot be done just things that people do not think about when looking at courses. Just about any cross country course in the state can handle the amount of runners. It is the 12,000 people and thousands of cars all coming to the same place in a couple hour time frame that most cannot handle.
exactly & correctly put.
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  #140  
Old 11-05-18, 01:47 PM
yj_runfan yj_runfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
Finishtiming, tell us about the Clark Country Fairgrounds. Is there plenty of paved parking, so you don't have people parking in the mud? Are there ticket windows to collect admission fees? How is the road leading to the facility? How many entrances to the parking areas? How did the course look last week?
Clark county fairgrounds sits alongside I-70 and the entrance is yards from the exit ramp. There are acres of parking but it is grass. I have been there in some pretty heavy rain and never saw anyone get stuck. The Springfield Extravaganza antique festival attracts many thousands of people twice a year. It can handle a lot of traffic.
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  #141  
Old 11-05-18, 02:28 PM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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ccrunner 609, Lancermania and others need to volunteer to be the State Meet Mangager and contact the sites that they are proposing, their grounds team, concession company and figure a cost analysis, include contacts to highway patrol and porta-john companies in those areas, and plan a monthly meeting with most involved...and probaly a few more things that I have forgotten OR All of these scenarios can be addressed and most of the concerns can be "fixed" at National Trail. (and that includes the course layout)
All of this will take money and man power. But can be done...,I think
1. Parking can be fixed by putting in gravel/shale/road grindings etc..in those grass area - not sure NT or the OHSAA would pay, but splitting the cost seem about right, but people need to park for boyt the CC state meet and thier big drag race events. OR Park at the airport next door (see if they will take $1000 for one day in November (about $2 per car).

2. water can be drained and prevented with proper draining and/or building things up better... as Psychodad discussed.
"I have a Cistern, so I have to have water brought in from time to time. They use a pump that transfers 2000 gallons in well under 10 minutes. I know construction, so I've had to rent things from time to time. They make gas powered pumps that can move "trash" water at 200-300 gallons per minute that are easily gotten. Rent for under $100 a day. 3 or 4 of those for a day will get you on the course. Don't care how much it rains. If you put in the proper drainage going forward, they should never have this issue again. It's a matter of parking at that point. Shuttle people from paved parking areas somewhere and get it done."

3. the course could be improve IMO and I will present my ideas to the powers that be. breifly, its two loop course, going infront of the grandstand twice and most could see that start as well. I would include the trail in the woods and people can get close to where they go into and come out of the woods, but if you went there, you probaly could not get back to the finish (much like scioto downs) Those going on the race track (drag strip) would be "stuck" there for the duration of each race.
Still will not be any more "hills" but doing the 180 degree turn at the head of the dragstrip will break up the rythum of the runners some and make it less like a track meet...as that seem to be a big problem with the course ie. "a track meet on grass"
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  #142  
Old 11-05-18, 02:41 PM
Bluedevil45 Bluedevil45 is offline
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All of those suggestions should have been thought out by the powers to be WHEN IT WAS DECIDED TO GO TO NT. It goes back to what they were thinking not having a plan b or knowing the site they picked 5 years ago was prone to flooding. Even Herb Hartman has a plan b for the Troy Regional meet because part of the course is on a flood plain and there is a chance it could flood.

They made a mistake, are very unprepared, and wish they would admit it instead of saying its for the safety of the kids.
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  #143  
Old 11-05-18, 03:46 PM
GORUN1600 GORUN1600 is offline
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what about parking cars at local schools and having buses transport spectators to the cedarville course? there's several schools that are within 10 minutes or so. It wouldn't be an ideal set up but it would be better than the current situation.
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  #144  
Old 11-05-18, 03:49 PM
benfranklin benfranklin is offline
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Hello all...I am a first time poster, long time reader. I share everyone's frustration about the postponement. Just spit balling here...is Blossom Music Center a viable site? Perhaps Psycho can answer the question as I am sure he is familiar with the area, being from Woodridge. I know they host a Lifebanc 5k there (maybe even a 10k too). Definitely have the parking (although the mud can be, or used to be, a problem after heavy rains. A Rod Stewart concert in the late 80's comes to mind...), restrooms, concession areas. Anyway...maybe the fact that it's a LiveNation facility makes it contractually impossible. Just wondering, though.
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  #145  
Old 11-05-18, 04:05 PM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
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Originally Posted by benfranklin View Post
Hello all...I am a first time poster, long time reader. I share everyone's frustration about the postponement. Just spit balling here...is Blossom Music Center a viable site? Perhaps Psycho can answer the question as I am sure he is familiar with the area, being from Woodridge. I know they host a Lifebanc 5k there (maybe even a 10k too). Definitely have the parking (although the mud can be, or used to be, a problem after heavy rains. A Rod Stewart concert in the late 80's comes to mind...), restrooms, concession areas. Anyway...maybe the fact that it's a LiveNation facility makes it contractually impossible. Just wondering, though.
I'm sure the Jesuits and CVCA would approve of this location!
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  #146  
Old 11-05-18, 05:36 PM
benfranklin benfranklin is offline
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Well, yeah, as would Woodridge, Hudson, Stow, Hoban, STVM and any number of Summit County Schools which are a short drive from Blossom. A quick glance shows that this year, only one runner from CVCA and Walsh Jesuit is making the trip to Hebron for cross country. This struck me as odd. Down year for those squads? But back to location...no matter where it is held, a handful of schools can benefit from proximity. But outside of that, does anyone know if Blossom is conducive to hosting the State meeet?
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  #147  
Old 11-05-18, 06:50 PM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
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Originally Posted by benfranklin View Post
Well, yeah, as would Woodridge, Hudson, Stow, Hoban, STVM and any number of Summit County Schools which are a short drive from Blossom. A quick glance shows that this year, only one runner from CVCA and Walsh Jesuit is making the trip to Hebron for cross country. This struck me as odd. Down year for those squads? But back to location...no matter where it is held, a handful of schools can benefit from proximity. But outside of that, does anyone know if Blossom is conducive to hosting the State meeet?
Oh, just was naming a few schools close-by. I've been up to Walsh a handful of times and recognize the area on a map.
How spectator friendly would that location be? Looks quite wooded, so I'm assuming to watch much of the race would take some moving around.

My vote for a new state location is around Springfield, only because its about two hours closer.
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  #148  
Old 11-05-18, 06:59 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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I personally do not think Blossom itself would be a good location for a course. However, It would be a great place to park and the fields across the street could have a great set up for cross country courses.

Isn't there a landfill that has gotten to capacity that the OHSAA or someone else, pitch a proposal and get for a facility. Didn't they build a nice golf course out of one right there in Columbus? Someone needs to get with the Columbus Crew and help them design a facility that could be the new Home of the Crew, but also have a CC course built into the facility and area surrounding. There has to be something that could be done. They are closing Golf Courses down in our area left and right and developing them. There has to be a way to have some sort of industrial park area that has green area designed into it where a State level CC meet could be held once a year. We are well past harvest time. Some big farm that could get a roller on to compact the soil or plant creatively so that the CC course is not disturbed each planting and harvesting season. Just has to be a creative way to have a great facility.

I just looked it up and there is a landfill closing this month after being unused for 5 years in Smith Township, Mahoning County. I can't imagine that land would be very expensive per acre. There could be an eternal flame perhaps from the methane gas. Dig Grass Bleachers out of it. Think of a course where it's all in a small footprint where the runners can cross paths over bridges and through tunnels and have it all right there in front of the fans 100%. Dirt bike like hills in an area. https://www.waste360.com/closure/aba...ill-close-ohio

Here is another article on the landfil... http://marcellus.com/news/id/106984/...osed-landfill/

Last edited by psycho_dad; 11-05-18 at 07:43 PM..
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  #149  
Old 11-05-18, 08:23 PM
gatornation gatornation is offline
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What about the new XC course that Akron built and held All Ohio's this year? Says there is 400 spots to park then busing in from Wadsworth HS. It is in Silver Creek Metro Park in Norton.
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  #150  
Old 11-05-18, 09:52 PM
Finishtiming Finishtiming is offline
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Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
Finishtiming, tell us about the Clark Country Fairgrounds. Is there plenty of paved parking, so you don't have people parking in the mud? Are there ticket windows to collect admission fees? How is the road leading to the facility? How many entrances to the parking areas? How did the course look last week?
Course map
http://www.finishtimingresults.com/2.../5k-course.JPG

Fairgrounds facility
http://www.finishtimingresults.com/2...airgrounds.PNG

We walked the course on friday to see what it was like and feet were wet but no mud. Local school ran practice there saturday and still no mud and had 2 spots with standing water (about 5' x5' and 1" deep.) The whole fairgrounds is located on a gravel pit so the ground drains quickly. The course is designed in such a way that the spectators do not have to cross the course. It is similar to scioto downs in layout. First 1294 meters is in front of grandstands then run out around lake (with a spectator trail right beside course the whole way) then last 1205 meters in front of the grandstands with the finish directly beside grandstrands. Grandstands hold a little over 3000.
I have the ability to allow access to inside of loop and people could line both sides of finish area.
The fairgrounds facility can handle the crowds as they host a flea market extravaganza that has close to 10,000 people a day for a full weekend. Parking and access from highway are not a problem.
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