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  #1  
Old 10-25-18, 10:45 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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OHSAA adopts 2 more field event athletes from regionals

Voted today. Anyone onkw how they break ties?
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  #2  
Old 10-25-18, 11:03 AM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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I would assume that ties will be broken via the National Federation rule book.... that is pretty clear cut for the LJ and throws. and for the vertical jumps, just as a tie for fourth at a regional is currently"broken" , now, each region will do that for 5th and/or 6th. As far as different regions with the same 5th place mark goes, ties could be broken by Number of misses at each height, attempts, etc.
If each Regional has a true 5th place, (as they all only have 4 qualifiers currently), then the chance of a tie at separate regions is about the same as there currently is in the running events to the 1000th of a second.
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Old 10-25-18, 11:29 AM
stew stew is offline
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I had heard all ties would qualify. They could put more individuals in the field events without too much trouble, verse only having 9 lanes on the track.
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Old 10-25-18, 11:31 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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The breaking of ties in head to head competition is in a jimp off format. The vertical jumps WILL have ties that cant be broken. Every year??? Not sure but it will happen
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Old 10-25-18, 12:13 PM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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If each Region will break true ties for 5th as they do now for 4th place (via a jump off) then the most that the State meet may have is 20 in the high jump or pole vault.... and that would only happen if all four 5th place regional efforts were the exact same height. Again, I am assuming and you know what that "makes out of you and me".
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Old 10-25-18, 01:16 PM
stew stew is offline
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That is what I was told, that they would break ties at the Regional level, then ties between Regionals would all move on to the State. There was no real way to break ties between Regionals and the field events could handle more than 2 at large qualifiers since there would be no limit due to the track having only 9 lanes as in running events.
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  #7  
Old 10-25-18, 01:28 PM
Altor Altor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENA2 View Post
If each Regional has a true 5th place, (as they all only have 4 qualifiers currently), then the chance of a tie at separate regions is about the same as there currently is in the running events to the 1000th of a second.
Yeah, this isn't true at all. You are much more likely to see multiple high jumpers or pole vaulters that are tied and are clean throughout a competition than a time to the 1000th of a second.

I concur with ccrunner609 that it's not going to happen very often and probably not every year, but we will see this happen much more often than a tie in the running events for that 18th spot.
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  #8  
Old 10-25-18, 01:32 PM
Altor Altor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENA2 View Post
If each Region will break true ties for 5th as they do now for 4th place (via a jump off) then the most that the State meet may have is 20 in the high jump or pole vault.... and that would only happen if all four 5th place regional efforts were the exact same height. Again, I am assuming and you know what that "makes out of you and me".
Actually the max would be 21 in an event...

1-16: 4 qualifiers from 4 regions
17: 5th in his/her region, next best by a full increment
18, 19, 20 were 5th in their regions and 21 was 6th, but they all had the same height and were clean throughout.
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  #9  
Old 10-25-18, 01:36 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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While I haven't read the ruling yet, I'm all for the decision to improve the current situation. I recall a northeastern division I regional a number of years back where at least 5 girls cleared 5' 6" in the high jump and left the 5th placer at home when it took only 5' or 5' 2" in other parts of the state to qualify. I'm glad for the ruling. Positive things at OHSAA!
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  #10  
Old 10-29-18, 08:37 AM
Throwscoach Throwscoach is offline
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It also makes sense to the OHSAA financially two more people at the state meet means at minimum in most cases 6 more fans sitting in the stands to watch that kid compete. The OHSAA is a business at its core and wants to make a profit from tournaments.
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  #11  
Old 10-29-18, 09:20 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throwscoach View Post
It also makes sense to the OHSAA financially two more people at the state meet means at minimum in most cases 6 more fans sitting in the stands to watch that kid compete. The OHSAA is a business at its core and wants to make a profit from tournaments.
they dont do that well with track or CC
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  #12  
Old 10-29-18, 09:43 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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My issue is with height progressions in the HJ and PV. Different Regionals have different starting heights and progressions. Hit a certain height and then it goes by 3's where at another it goes by two's. I did this at our invite for JV kids, where we started at say 7'-3" and went by 6" so that kids could get Pr's as we went up 6". If they have different starting heights and different progressions, you could not have an opportunity to beat out someone at a different Regional. They could go (and I'm just making up a number) 12'-3" but at our regional, we went 12'-0" to 12'-6" and never had a chance to make 12'-3"

I've had this discussion with other coaches and even Howard about school records. My vaulter wanted to put the bar at 1/4 or 1/2" or something stupid small over the school record to try and get it. I made him put it at least 1" above because that's the smallest progression I'd ever seen in a HS meet. I also explained to him that the kid who had the record did not have the choice to raise it above the school record or even the height he had cleared by just a fraction of an inch. He had to go at least an inch higher and he chose 3.

Even when my brother got the HJ record. He had it set at 6'-9" and when they measured it, it ended up 6'-8.75" after he had jumped it, so that's what it is. Even though it measured 6'-9" before he jumped. When I was in school, they were very strict on records. I had the PV record at 12'-8", I had vaulted 13'-0" but they knocked the bar off before they measured it, so I was only credited with 12'-8".

It doesn't really matter to me since anyone who gets the extra spots is sort of lucky, but it would suck to not get it when it's only because progressions were different.
For the billionth time, OHSAA is an unincorporated non-profit organization and does not need to make a profit. They could make a killing on track and field and CC if they wanted to, but there is no need as it's very easy to make more than what they need with Football and Basketball. They have all they need in place for Track and Field, and they are not going to put anymore effort into CC than they have to. They are providing a fair championship tournament for all the kids, so their job is done. It can be a 7 and not a 10.
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  #13  
Old 10-29-18, 10:08 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
My issue is with height progressions in the HJ and PV. Different Regionals have different starting heights and progressions. Hit a certain height and then it goes by 3's where at another it goes by two's. I did this at our invite for JV kids, where we started at say 7'-3" and went by 6" so that kids could get Pr's as we went up 6". If they have different starting heights and different progressions, you could not have an opportunity to beat out someone at a different Regional. They could go (and I'm just making up a number) 12'-3" but at our regional, we went 12'-0" to 12'-6" and never had a chance to make 12'-3"

I've had this discussion with other coaches and even Howard about school records. My vaulter wanted to put the bar at 1/4 or 1/2" or something stupid small over the school record to try and get it. I made him put it at least 1" above because that's the smallest progression I'd ever seen in a HS meet. I also explained to him that the kid who had the record did not have the choice to raise it above the school record or even the height he had cleared by just a fraction of an inch. He had to go at least an inch higher and he chose 3.

Even when my brother got the HJ record. He had it set at 6'-9" and when they measured it, it ended up 6'-8.75" after he had jumped it, so that's what it is. Even though it measured 6'-9" before he jumped. When I was in school, they were very strict on records. I had the PV record at 12'-8", I had vaulted 13'-0" but they knocked the bar off before they measured it, so I was only credited with 12'-8".

It doesn't really matter to me since anyone who gets the extra spots is sort of lucky, but it would suck to not get it when it's only because progressions were different.
For the billionth time, OHSAA is an unincorporated non-profit organization and does not need to make a profit. They could make a killing on track and field and CC if they wanted to, but there is no need as it's very easy to make more than what they need with Football and Basketball. They have all they need in place for Track and Field, and they are not going to put anymore effort into CC than they have to. They are providing a fair championship tournament for all the kids, so their job is done. It can be a 7 and not a 10.
lots of variables......wind, temps, rain, time of event in the meet etc....
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  #14  
Old 10-29-18, 12:07 PM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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The fact that each region sets their own Starting heights and progression in the vertical jumps is what further ensures that that a tie for the at-large qualifiers is likely to not happen.
For instance: in the pole vault some regionals go up by 4" and some by 3".
Which way is better? if you look at past history - and I have - some years the best 5th place effort(s) may have been 13' 9", sometimes 13' 8, or sometimes 13'10. Passing at certain heights usually happens for the top kids and being "clean" through the top height cleared often does not happen.

The HJ is similar in that the regional decides when they will move to 1" increments...either at a certain height of when so many athletes are left in the competition. If you look at past history, one way is not superior than the other to determine "at-large" qualifiers.

If kids and coaches continue to stress to compete to be in the top 4 at the regional, the "at-Large" qualifiers will continue to be kids who are rewarded for competing at or near their best at the end of their season like most of us think is how it is supposed to be.
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  #15  
Old 10-29-18, 12:39 PM
Throwscoach Throwscoach is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
they dont do that well with track or CC
Yes that is why getting those few more people to the meet is important. If you look at it as $1,000-$2,000 more per division over 2 days that is helpful to a bottom line.
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  #16  
Old 10-29-18, 03:20 PM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
they dont do that well with track or CC
Not true with CC anymore especially now that they charge at regional meets.

https://ohsaa.org/Portals/0/Board-of...ES-4-12-18.pdf

2017 CC net +50k, 2016 net +78k, 2015 net +51k 2014 -33k.

They always made money at state meet but lost more than that at regional meet.
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