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  #61  
Old 03-20-17, 07:41 AM
keato keato is offline
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Why is it always the officials fault???
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  #62  
Old 03-20-17, 07:44 AM
eliwes eliwes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Possessed View Post
He was either outwrestled or the refs screwed him.

Pick one.
neither
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  #63  
Old 03-20-17, 07:46 AM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Originally Posted by keato View Post
Why is it always the officials fault???
Who said it always was? Nobody. Right?
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  #64  
Old 03-20-17, 07:51 AM
eliwes eliwes is offline
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Originally Posted by keato View Post
Why is it always the officials fault???
it's the wrestler fault for putting in the hands of the official.
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  #65  
Old 03-20-17, 08:08 AM
keato keato is offline
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Originally Posted by eliwes View Post
it's the wrestler fault for putting in the hands of the official.
boom!!!
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  #66  
Old 03-20-17, 08:19 AM
Big D 185 Big D 185 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambeau Fields View Post
It is what it is though. It happens in wrestling. Hats off to Penn Stat. it was d@mn impressive what they pulled off yesterday. All of the kids (except Hall IMHO) really got after it and were generally looking to score from whistle to whistle. And scary that all of them are returning.
Really? Except HAll?? I am a huge Jordan fan. However, Hall beat Valencia and Jordan.
Quit making excuses.
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  #67  
Old 03-20-17, 08:31 AM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
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Originally Posted by ProV1 View Post
Bo Jordan has represented himself and OSU very well. Interesting to me that anybody would criticize the guy. Three time AA with a another chance next year. He may never get it but I will be rooting for him.
Very true. Just think this Bo wasn't nearly as good as the previous years. Apparently the same injections are not available for the foot that athletes use for separated rib cartilage.
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  #68  
Old 03-20-17, 09:15 AM
mailman112 mailman112 is offline
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Originally Posted by said_aouita View Post
I'd like coach Ryan to explain why Bo has regressed this season in the top position.
Among others. Although Saturday some of the scarlet and gray fans said I was crazy. Truth of the matter Ryan isn't on the level of some other coaches but he can recruit!
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  #69  
Old 03-20-17, 09:40 AM
queencitybuckeye queencitybuckeye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Possessed View Post
He was either outwrestled or the refs screwed him.

Pick one.
False dichotomy. No reason both can't be true.
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  #70  
Old 03-20-17, 10:03 AM
ProV1 ProV1 is offline
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Originally Posted by mailman112 View Post
Among others. Although Saturday some of the scarlet and gray fans said I was crazy. Truth of the matter Ryan isn't on the level of some other coaches but he can recruit!
Please list all coaches that you believe are better. After that, please identify which of those who would be a better choice at OSU assuming you want a combination of tactician, leader, and recruiter. I see a bunch of folks claiming there better options but I never see any specific recommendations.

Last edited by ProV1; 03-20-17 at 10:38 AM.
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  #71  
Old 03-20-17, 10:11 AM
kessen157 kessen157 is offline
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Originally Posted by mailman112 View Post
Among others. Although Saturday some of the scarlet and gray fans said I was crazy. Truth of the matter Ryan isn't on the level of some other coaches but he can recruit!

What coaches are you talking about? Brands? Smith? Cael? Those would be the only 3 and you could argue over the last few years Ryan he has out produced Brands and Smith. Bucks are the only school outside of PSU to win a title in the last 7 years.
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  #72  
Old 03-20-17, 10:37 AM
Lucksman Lucksman is offline
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Originally Posted by eliwes View Post
it's the wrestler fault for putting in the hands of the official.
Haha I will remember you said that, prepare yourself
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  #73  
Old 03-20-17, 10:57 AM
queencitybuckeye queencitybuckeye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProV1 View Post
Please list all coaches that you believe are better. After that, please identify which of those who would be a better choice at OSU assuming you want a combination of tactician, leader, and recruiter. I see a bunch of folks claiming there better options but I never see any specific recommendations.
Also, I would add "available" to the discussion. tOSU can't get Cael. Nor Smith if you accept on faith that he's better. Nor Brands.

I'm all for tOSU replacing Ryan with anyone 1) they can get 2) with an undisputed better record of success at the top level of collegiate wrestling. The critics can help me by supplying a list of names meeting these two criteria.

Last edited by queencitybuckeye; 03-20-17 at 11:10 AM.
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  #74  
Old 03-20-17, 11:17 AM
ProV1 ProV1 is offline
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Originally Posted by queencitybuckeye View Post
Also, I would add "available" to the discussion. tOSU can't get Cael. Nor Smith if you accept on faith that he's better. Nor Brands.

I'm all for tOSU replacing Ryan with anyone 1) they can get 2) with an undisputed better record of success at the top level of collegiate wrestling. The critics can help me by supplying a list of names meeting these two criteria.
Agreed that available is important when you are actually hiring a new coach. Tom Ryan is not going anywhere in the near future given his objective job performance. This is just a hypothetical discussion. I see frequent claims about how Ryan is not a top coach and there are better. Outside of Cael, I have never seen anybody else mentioned. I would be curious to see the complete list of coaches who are better, available or not.
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  #75  
Old 03-20-17, 11:19 AM
mailman112 mailman112 is offline
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Originally Posted by ProV1 View Post
Please list all coaches that you believe are better. After that, please identify which of those who would be a better choice at OSU assuming you want a combination of tactician, leader, and recruiter. I see a bunch of folks claiming there better options but I never see any specific recommendations.
Prov we normally see eye to eye on most topics. I'm not an OSU fan (in fact don't support any particular team in college) but I do enjoy watching top notch talent succeed. Here are my points.

1. Do you agree Ryan gets the top talent just like the powerhouse teams? I do.

2. Do you believe Ryan gets the most out of his wrestlers OVERALL? I don't and I believe it shows year in and year out. Having a gas tank is one. Having wrestling improve during a 4/5 year period. Just becoming an AA isn't what I believe shows a coach doing his job. Before you all jump on me yet again, I'm not saying they have to win a national title. When you get the top talent each and every year you better have AA.

Lastly. To name other coaches is meaningless because they will not leave their current team. I believe if some of the secondary schools would have the resources those teams would contend 3 out of every 10 years. Maybe not for a title but a top 5 finish.

I understand most of you are OSU fans and have on your scarlet and gray glasses. We each can have our own thoughts and disagree. We all see things differently. OSU is a very good team. No question. My problem is I don't see the wrestlers getting better each year. OVERALL.
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  #76  
Old 03-20-17, 11:28 AM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProV1 View Post
Agreed that available is important when you are actually hiring a new coach. Tom Ryan is not going anywhere in the near future given his objective job performance. This is just a hypothetical discussion. I see frequent claims about how Ryan is not a top coach and there are better. Outside of Cael, I have never seen anybody else mentioned. I would be curious to see the complete list of coaches who are better, available or not.
Cael.... and maybe some guy at a lower level that none of us really know. That's about all I can think of.

The only issue I saw this weekend, but can't confirm/deny was the indifference there seemed to be between the Jordan's and Ryan (staff). I don't recall which one it was, but I think it was the quarterfinal round and there was a match where the announcer said he saw the coaches say something about cutting the kid as he was in their own corner and the wrestler didn't do it. That same match you hear a coach scream at him about needing to do 1 offensive thing for the match and it looked to me that he didn't even bother to give. I could be completely off base on this, but that MIGHT be an issue.
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  #77  
Old 03-20-17, 11:30 AM
kessen157 kessen157 is offline
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Originally Posted by mailman112 View Post
Prov we normally see eye to eye on most topics. I'm not an OSU fan (in fact don't support any particular team in college) but I do enjoy watching top notch talent succeed. Here are my points.

1. Do you agree Ryan gets the top talent just like the powerhouse teams? I do.

2. Do you believe Ryan gets the most out of his wrestlers OVERALL? I don't and I believe it shows year in and year out. Having a gas tank is one. Having wrestling improve during a 4/5 year period. Just becoming an AA isn't what I believe shows a coach doing his job. Before you all jump on me yet again, I'm not saying they have to win a national title. When you get the top talent each and every year you better have AA.

Lastly. To name other coaches is meaningless because they will not leave their current team. I believe if some of the secondary schools would have the resources those teams would contend 3 out of every 10 years. Maybe not for a title but a top 5 finish.

I understand most of you are OSU fans and have on your scarlet and gray glasses. We each can have our own thoughts and disagree. We all see things differently. OSU is a very good team. No question. My problem is I don't see the wrestlers getting better each year. OVERALL.
Your point of not getting better is pretty stupid unless you provide names of kids that got worst or didn't develop.
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  #78  
Old 03-20-17, 11:30 AM
LilPanda LilPanda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D 185 View Post
Really? Except HAll?? I am a huge Jordan fan. However, Hall beat Valencia and Jordan.

Quit making excuses.


Hall absolutely did not "get after it" like nolf, retherford and nickals did trying to score the whole time. This was the users point. I think even Hall thought he was going to get dinged for stalling a second time. Not taking anything away from Hall just noticed you didn't seem to understand what @lambeau fields was trying to say. He made zero excuses for the loss in his post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  #79  
Old 03-20-17, 11:35 AM
mailman112 mailman112 is offline
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Eyes many wrestlers at all levels do that. No names but in 2016 at the state tournament a wrestler was told to do something during the match, he didn't and lost. The wrestlers now knows not listening to his coaches cost him a title. I can't blame Ryan or the coaches for that.
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  #80  
Old 03-20-17, 11:35 AM
ProV1 ProV1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailman112 View Post
Prov we normally see eye to eye on most topics. I'm not an OSU fan (in fact don't support any particular team in college) but I do enjoy watching top notch talent succeed. Here are my points.

1. Do you agree Ryan gets the top talent just like the powerhouse teams? I do.

2. Do you believe Ryan gets the most out of his wrestlers OVERALL? I don't and I believe it shows year in and year out. Having a gas tank is one. Having wrestling improve during a 4/5 year period. Just becoming an AA isn't what I believe shows a coach doing his job. Before you all jump on me yet again, I'm not saying they have to win a national title. When you get the top talent each and every year you better have AA.

Lastly. To name other coaches is meaningless because they will not leave their current team. I believe if some of the secondary schools would have the resources those teams would contend 3 out of every 10 years. Maybe not for a title but a top 5 finish.

I understand most of you are OSU fans and have on your scarlet and gray glasses. We each can have our own thoughts and disagree. We all see things differently. OSU is a very good team. No question. My problem is I don't see the wrestlers getting better each year. OVERALL.
BS...It is meaningless to have a discussion about the top coaches in the NCAA because of their employment status? You are on an internet bulletin board spouting about the better coaches. Who are they?

Regarding wrestlers not developing/improving over a 4 or 5 year period? What evidence is there that they don't improve? If it is 100% tied to NCAA results...Has Gilman improved based on his results? How about Isiah Martinez? You make a lot of general statements but don't back anything up with hard facts or results. They don't have a gas tank...really...that is your basis? You have no obligation to back up your claims, but it would be great if there was some substance.
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  #81  
Old 03-20-17, 11:45 AM
mailman112 mailman112 is offline
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Originally Posted by kessen157 View Post
Your point of not getting better is pretty stupid unless you provide names of kids that got worst or didn't develop.
I'm not hear to argue. Do you watch OSU wrestle? Then you should be able to see it for yourself. Rodriguez,Borcher, Tavenello, Mark Martin, Myles Martin (even ESPN said he took at least 1 step backward) Ryan and yes even Bo. I understand he was hurt so he will get a pass but IMO not nearly the wrestler he was two years ago. I can go back the last 5 years and find more but what is the use you won't agree.

For the last time, we all don't see the same thing because we are vested in either the wrestler or the team. I understand that.
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  #82  
Old 03-20-17, 11:50 AM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailman112 View Post
Prov we normally see eye to eye on most topics. I'm not an OSU fan (in fact don't support any particular team in college) but I do enjoy watching top notch talent succeed. Here are my points.

1. Do you agree Ryan gets the top talent just like the powerhouse teams? I do.

2. Do you believe Ryan gets the most out of his wrestlers OVERALL? I don't and I believe it shows year in and year out. Having a gas tank is one. Having wrestling improve during a 4/5 year period. Just becoming an AA isn't what I believe shows a coach doing his job. Before you all jump on me yet again, I'm not saying they have to win a national title. When you get the top talent each and every year you better have AA.

Lastly. To name other coaches is meaningless because they will not leave their current team. I believe if some of the secondary schools would have the resources those teams would contend 3 out of every 10 years. Maybe not for a title but a top 5 finish.

I understand most of you are OSU fans and have on your scarlet and gray glasses. We each can have our own thoughts and disagree. We all see things differently. OSU is a very good team. No question. My problem is I don't see the wrestlers getting better each year. OVERALL.
1) My only real complaint with recruitment is that he hasn't brought in anyone to challenge Jake Ryan. He's brought in top end talent all around, but not there. That bothers me a bit as that seems to be the weak link for this team and it's been obvious there would be a gap there.

2) Who hasn't reached their potential? Nato getting knocked off and how he got beat was disappointing. I'm not sure how much better that kid could have got though. He has been at the top for a long time with incredible technique. Bo Jordan? Martin? BoJo has been a high placing AA every year and with injuries was runner up. Martin... low seed last year, pulls off a huge upset and is back to reality this year still finishing 5th. I think that's right about where he fit in. I'd like to see him pressure more against the top guys.

What about Snyder? You don't think that guy got any better since joining the team? He was elite for sure, but not at the level he is now. Kollin Moore... Look at what that dude has done in the last 2 years. No way you could have predicted where he is now right after HS.

I get it, that is this year's team. For every example I gave, you could go back and give me examples like Sponsellor or whatever.

Fact is that you are splitting hairs and there isn't another coach that could fix it. Especially one that is available. I'm not sure Cael could do a better job. It's tough to tell when you constantly get the best guy in each weight class. Heck... look at his 197. That guy didn't get better as the year went on.
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  #83  
Old 03-20-17, 11:52 AM
kessen157 kessen157 is offline
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Originally Posted by mailman112 View Post
I'm not hear to argue. Do you watch OSU wrestle? Then you should be able to see it for yourself. Rodriguez,Borcher, Tavenello, Mark Martin, Myles Martin (even ESPN said he took at least 1 step backward) Ryan and yes even Bo. I understand he was hurt so he will get a pass but IMO not nearly the wrestler he was two years ago. I can go back the last 5 years and find more but what is the use you won't agree.

For the last time, we all don't see the same thing because we are vested in either the wrestler or the team. I understand that.
So taking guys that aren't top level recruits Rodriquez, Burcher and making them serviceable B10 wresters and NCAA qualifiers isn't developing guys?

Of course he took a step back he won a title last year so anything less would be a step back. He also beat a guy in the blood round that beat him earlier in the year so he must have improved some how. Ryan is a one time runner up and not highly touted yet qualified to the NCAA tournament last year and battled injury all year. Bo is a 3x AA with only 5 loses in his career to a 3xChamp,4xAA,3AA and NC yet he isn't improving.
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  #84  
Old 03-20-17, 11:53 AM
mailman112 mailman112 is offline
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Prov did I hit a cord? Wow ......this is the way I see it. Doesn't make me right or wrong. Watch the matches. What other proof does anyone need? We have discussions going on whether Bo got screwed or not. How can anyone prove he got screwed. And frankly what does it matter? The match is over other then conversation. Just like how can I prove a wrestler regressed? Your statement doesn't make an sense. It's not about placement. It's about the eye test. And yet again, everyone will see a match differently then the next guy. If you don't see some of OSU wrestlers tank near empty in the second period then you don't. If you don't see certain wrestlers NOT getting any better, then you don't. I do.
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  #85  
Old 03-20-17, 11:59 AM
meluvwrestling meluvwrestling is offline
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ProV1,

It's a known fact that tOSU mat wrestling hasn't improved, that can't be denied. I don't see points being scored from top position as well as getting off bottom. I'm not concerned about conditioning but I'm concerned that tOSU doesn't have the mentality to score as many points as possible from all positions. Snyder & Moore are scoring from neutral position regardless of who their wrestling. Other guys seem to be more selective when taking shots based on who their wrestling. I definitely can't think of anyone on the team that turns opponents on a consistent basis and that hurts too when it comes to getting bonus points. These issues need to change to compete against PSU.

These are just my opinions.
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  #86  
Old 03-20-17, 12:00 PM
ProV1 ProV1 is offline
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Originally Posted by mailman112 View Post
I'm not hear to argue. Do you watch OSU wrestle? Then you should be able to see it for yourself. Rodriguez,Borcher, Tavenello, Mark Martin, Myles Martin (even ESPN said he took at least 1 step backward) Ryan and yes even Bo. I understand he was hurt so he will get a pass but IMO not nearly the wrestler he was two years ago. I can go back the last 5 years and find more but what is the use you won't agree.

For the last time, we all don't see the same thing because we are vested in either the wrestler or the team. I understand that.
This has nothing to do with being vested. Myles took 5th up a weight in what was arguably the toughest class in the country. Using him and his national championship as a foundation as to why Ryan is not an elite coach speaks volumes about ones motives or knowledge.

Still waiting for somebody to rank the top coaches and why.
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  #87  
Old 03-20-17, 12:04 PM
mailman112 mailman112 is offline
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Prov you think Myles is better today then he was a year ago? I'm not talking about placement I'm talking about being a better wrestler? I don't care he is up a weight, who he wrestled or the outcome. I'm just talking about being a better wrestler then a year ago.
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  #88  
Old 03-20-17, 12:07 PM
kessen157 kessen157 is offline
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Originally Posted by mailman112 View Post
Prov you think Myles is better today then he was a year ago? I'm not talking about placement I'm talking about being a better wrestler? I don't care he is up a weight, who he wrestled or the outcome. I'm just talking about being a better wrestler then a year ago.
Well according to what his dad posted else where and Myles himself yes he is.
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  #89  
Old 03-20-17, 12:11 PM
mailman112 mailman112 is offline
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Okay case closed I'm wrong.
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  #90  
Old 03-20-17, 12:26 PM
keato keato is offline
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Originally Posted by mailman112 View Post
Prov you think Myles is better today then he was a year ago? I'm not talking about placement I'm talking about being a better wrestler? I don't care he is up a weight, who he wrestled or the outcome. I'm just talking about being a better wrestler then a year ago.
I'm lost
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