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  #1  
Old 03-17-17, 10:02 AM
clueless clueless is offline
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How will pitch counts affect teams over a 28 game schedule?

I would imagine most leagues play 2 games per week, which means most #1s will either close the first and be eligible to come back as a starter in the second or start a Tuesday/Saturday/Tuesday/Saturday. The problem with the first scenario would seem to be if you aren't winning the first league game and don't use the #1, he only gets one start a week. I'm sure D1 teams don't have to worry about this problem, but I would say more teams throughout Ohio don't have an abundance of arms. So do you start the #1 as many times as possible throughout the season or do you hold him for league games? I'm interested to hear the takes on this.
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  #2  
Old 03-17-17, 10:30 AM
J.R. Swish J.R. Swish is offline
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Depends if you want to kill your number 1 guy or not. Also, most leagues play 2 games a week as you said so teams are used to using their top 2 guys for league games. Nonleague games for younger guys now or 3-4 men in rotation. Saturday DH could leave teams short for Monday games too. Bottom line is teams will have to pitch more guys now and not lean on 3 or 4 guys for the whole season. Instead of top guy at 70 innings and number 2 at 50 and 3-4 about 35-40 you may have top 2 at 55-60 and 3 through 6 at 20-40 innings.
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  #3  
Old 03-17-17, 02:00 PM
Baseball4Life! Baseball4Life! is offline
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Everyone but your up the middle guys will have to pitch. Going to make some players POs. Of course this depends on if you have numbers. I've been seeing a lot of coaches complaining about numbers and this won't help. Funny thing about this whole situation is OHSAA isn't making coaches report their pitch counts after games. They only have to provide if they are "reported".
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  #4  
Old 03-17-17, 11:24 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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The advantage will go to the teams with a deeper pitching staff. Personally, I'm glad to see this. It takes the decision out of the coach's hands how far to push it. It's still a high limit but it's better than reading about a kid that threw 150 pitches in a game or 180 pitches over a 2-3 day period.
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  #5  
Old 03-20-17, 12:47 AM
Red Right 88 Red Right 88 is offline
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The real 'teams' won't be effected. The managers and pitching coaches who have made a living out of having just a #1 & #2 don't like the rule change.
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  #6  
Old 03-20-17, 05:31 AM
fortfan fortfan is offline
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I don't think it will affect us much.
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  #7  
Old 03-20-17, 11:15 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Plan on some long, long games this spring fans. You are going to have kids pitching in games who have either never pitched, or pitched very little because we simply don't trust coaches to coach their pitching staffs. The pitch count rule is the silliest thing i've ever heard of. You wait, there will be a movement to put this same silly rule into college baseball. A rule that you use for 10 year olds.

Our biggest problem with 20 something pitchers is that many either have not pitched enough to learn how to pitch, or they are not conditioned to pitch because we only allow them to throw x number of pitches until they are college players.
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  #8  
Old 03-20-17, 03:38 PM
2manyBats 2manyBats is offline
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a couple of you have it Dead On - but others -What's with all the Assumed data your posting....

3 Days Rest on an arm the just went 100 + ... at least we have a Rule - I like 105 with 4 days Rest

and when you get to college - they make you the Friday Night Starter ... or 1st Game Saturday ... ... Etc ..... they throw you Once a Week

I've watched about 18 +/- College games already - Live ... I have yet to see a starting pitcher go to SS .. CF .. or 3rd when done - in my opinion - that's where gets kids can get hurt.

I can see HS utilizing 3 Arms for League Games ( 2 ) #1's and a Closer

( 2 ) #1's @ 50 pitches each ( 1 ) Closer @ 30 pitches - that's a 130 pitches

3 Arms could Pitch Monday - Wednesday - Friday - all season

What will be interesting is - DH'ers and Back to Back Makeups due to weather - that's when it possible to see coaches developing younger kids.

I remember 10 years ago - parents gave my sons's travel coach crap when he decided to pitch off in a league / conference game. We were 1 day away from a Tournament - he Rested our best Arms - we ended up coming out of Pool play and played 2 More - Smart Man !
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  #9  
Old 03-20-17, 03:50 PM
2manyBats 2manyBats is offline
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also ..... I was at college games this past weekend and heard a father talking about another son's HS League - they schedule the same opponent Twice in the same week - all throughout the season.

so the other team can't pitch the ACE against you twice in the season - of course weather permitting -

I didn't ask which state he's in ? has anyone else seen this ?
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  #10  
Old 03-20-17, 03:58 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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That is how the Suburban League schedules games. Most games are on back-to-back nights. One home, one away.
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  #11  
Old 03-20-17, 04:15 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
That is how the Suburban League schedules games. Most games are on back-to-back nights. One home, one away.
Many of the leagues at least in Northeast Ohio schedule in this fashion. Back-to-back, home-and-away. There's two reasons for that:
(1) teams have to use at least two different starters throughout the league season
(2) helps to minimize weather disruptions, many times you'll see an off-day placed after the conference back-to-back so there doesn't have to be a random "make-up" scheduled
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  #12  
Old 03-22-17, 08:31 AM
Tarheel2336 Tarheel2336 is offline
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Is there a reporting mechanism in place for coaches or is it on the honor system?
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  #13  
Old 03-22-17, 11:34 AM
Salesman Salesman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Right 88 View Post
The real 'teams' won't be effected. The managers and pitching coaches who have made a living out of having just a #1 & #2 don't like the rule change.
That is a pretty ignorant statement. Every school, no matter the size, is fighting a numbers problem in baseball. You have to compete with track and field along with the travel ball programs that exist throughout the state. Not everybody has the luxury of having 3, 4, or 5 potential starters on their roster. To insinuate if you don't, then you aren't a "real team" makes you a fool.

Sincerely,

An Old Man with over 40 years of baseball coaching experience at many levels.
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  #14  
Old 03-22-17, 11:52 AM
Baseball4Life! Baseball4Life! is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyBats View Post
a couple of you have it Dead On - but others -What's with all the Assumed data your posting....

3 Days Rest on an arm the just went 100 + ... at least we have a Rule - I like 105 with 4 days Rest

and when you get to college - they make you the Friday Night Starter ... or 1st Game Saturday ... ... Etc ..... they throw you Once a Week

I've watched about 18 +/- College games already - Live ... I have yet to see a starting pitcher go to SS .. CF .. or 3rd when done - in my opinion - that's where gets kids can get hurt.

I can see HS utilizing 3 Arms for League Games ( 2 ) #1's and a Closer

( 2 ) #1's @ 50 pitches each ( 1 ) Closer @ 30 pitches - that's a 130 pitches

3 Arms could Pitch Monday - Wednesday - Friday - all season

What will be interesting is - DH'ers and Back to Back Makeups due to weather - that's when it possible to see coaches developing younger kids.

I remember 10 years ago - parents gave my sons's travel coach crap when he decided to pitch off in a league / conference game. We were 1 day away from a Tournament - he Rested our best Arms - we ended up coming out of Pool play and played 2 More - Smart Man !
Comparing college pitching with high school is apples to oranges. High schools don't have the same size rosters that a college does. Pitchers are recruited to pitch not play the field. High school doesn't always have that luxury.
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  #15  
Old 03-22-17, 11:54 AM
Baseball4Life! Baseball4Life! is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarheel2336 View Post
Is there a reporting mechanism in place for coaches or is it on the honor system?
If OHSAA comes knocking you have to supply the pitch count. No daily reporting at the moment.
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  #16  
Old 03-22-17, 12:30 PM
Tarheel2336 Tarheel2336 is offline
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Thanks Baseball.

I cannot imagine that OHSAA will be actively checking up on many HS teams so what makes coaches adhere to the rule and, therefore, what is the point of it? Just for OHSAA to say that they have a rule in place and they are trying to protect the athletes?
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  #17  
Old 03-22-17, 02:11 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarheel2336 View Post
Thanks Baseball.

I cannot imagine that OHSAA will be actively checking up on many HS teams so what makes coaches adhere to the rule and, therefore, what is the point of it? Just for OHSAA to say that they have a rule in place and they are trying to protect the athletes?
The pitch count rule is a mandate from the NFHS.
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  #18  
Old 03-22-17, 03:12 PM
Raider6309 Raider6309 is offline
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Shouldn't effect the good teams. We don't ride those arms until the tournament
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  #19  
Old 03-24-17, 11:05 AM
Baseball4Life! Baseball4Life! is offline
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Originally Posted by Raider6309 View Post
Shouldn't effect the good teams. We don't ride those arms until the tournament
Don't think it has anything to do with good/bad teams. Its a numbers game. If you are a big school you have 5-6 quality pitchers. If you are a small school you might have 3.
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  #20  
Old 03-28-17, 05:00 PM
WalshBacker WalshBacker is offline
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These pitch counts are more than generous. Which pitch count total and days of rest should be eliminated?

Starting Freshmen year, develop your pitchers. Teach them how to throw strikes and change speeds. Save your studs for league games. Play defense and learn how to win when one of your aces is not on the mound in non league games.
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  #21  
Old 03-28-17, 05:07 PM
HomeRunsNDunks HomeRunsNDunks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyBats View Post
also ..... I was at college games this past weekend and heard a father talking about another son's HS League - they schedule the same opponent Twice in the same week - all throughout the season.

so the other team can't pitch the ACE against you twice in the season - of course weather permitting -

I didn't ask which state he's in ? has anyone else seen this ?
GWOC plays league games Monday and Tuesday (one home, one away) with any rained out game automatically rescheduled for Wednesday.
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  #22  
Old 03-29-17, 08:48 AM
tcgobucks tcgobucks is offline
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The sports director of our local paper tweeted out the results of last nights game including the pitcher's pitch count......which I have never seen him do...so maybe the rule is at least making people think about PC a little bit if it's being reported.
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  #23  
Old 03-29-17, 09:57 AM
Beaver2000 Beaver2000 is offline
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From what I have observed, most high school coaches use good common sense (there are a few out there who ride a guy forever and overuse him).

However, I think summer/ travel tournaments are where the real overuse takes place. Pool play on Thursday-Saturday with championships on Sunday. A team might play 6 games in a 4 day span. I understand most summer/ travel teams have more pitchers but that's still a lot of use on arms.

I would like to see a more equitable rule. If high school teams have to count and monitor pitches, so should summer/ travel teams.
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  #24  
Old 03-29-17, 10:35 AM
tcgobucks tcgobucks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaver2000 View Post
From what I have observed, most high school coaches use good common sense (there are a few out there who ride a guy forever and overuse him).

However, I think summer/ travel tournaments are where the real overuse takes place. Pool play on Thursday-Saturday with championships on Sunday. A team might play 6 games in a 4 day span. I understand most summer/ travel teams have more pitchers but that's still a lot of use on arms.

I would like to see a more equitable rule. If high school teams have to count and monitor pitches, so should summer/ travel teams.
The difference is that with summer teams the parents/kids have the opportunity to do (and absolutely should) their homework on teams/orgs/coaches before joining a team. If they don't like what they see then they can look elsewhere. If they get on a team then find out the coach is overusing arms....simple....move on. Unfortunately that's not an option for most HS kids. Some tournaments are using pitch count rules in some form or another now....which is a positive
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  #25  
Old 03-30-17, 02:40 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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It should result in teams having a deeper pitching staff and their best 2 guys more rested come tournament time.
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  #26  
Old 03-30-17, 10:01 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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Summer/travel ball is not under the auspices of NFHS. Those events use whatever rules they choose. I am sure you will see more summer/travel stuff migrate to pitch count in alignment with the NFHS change, but that's on the organizers.

The big picture point is that high school programs will have to develop more pitching from the top-down, and then ultimately from the bottom-up.
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