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  #91  
Old 03-16-17, 08:19 PM
Trailsendcustom Trailsendcustom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Genoa 327, Napoleon 522. Napoleon is about 60% larger than Genoa. That is a big difference.
Yes, significant but if you consider that Perrysburg 118% bigger than Napoleon and AW is 92% larger it seems in this context that Napoleon is much closer in size to Genoa than several of the teams in its own league.
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  #92  
Old 03-16-17, 08:54 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by Trailsendcustom View Post
Yes, significant but if you consider that Perrysburg 118% bigger than Napoleon and AW is 92% larger it seems in this context that Napoleon is much closer in size to Genoa than several of the teams in its own league.
Obviously.
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  #93  
Old 03-17-17, 05:14 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Obviously.
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  #94  
Old 03-17-17, 07:25 AM
Smalls Smalls is offline
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On BCSN Danbury announced they are leaving the TAAC. They also said an announcement is coming from Gibsonburg next week.

1st dominoes are dropping.
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  #95  
Old 03-17-17, 08:54 AM
dappling dappling is offline
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Ok...so how does this play out?

Option #1: Woodmore and Elmwood say, "This is our chance" and leave the NBC for the TAAC. If this happens (unfortunately) people in Maumee will start lobbying for Maumee to move to the NBC. I would think that Oak Harbor might consider it as well.

Option #2: Woodmore and Elmwood say, "The TAAC is dying; we are better off staying were we are for the sake of long term stability." Maumee and Oak Harbor stay where they are and the TAAC gets even smaller (or tries to attract Evergreen).
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  #96  
Old 03-17-17, 09:40 AM
Coach_B Coach_B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dappling View Post
Ok...so how does this play out?

Option #1: Woodmore and Elmwood say, "This is our chance" and leave the NBC for the TAAC. If this happens (unfortunately) people in Maumee will start lobbying for Maumee to move to the NBC. I would think that Oak Harbor might consider it as well.

Option #2: Woodmore and Elmwood say, "The TAAC is dying; we are better off staying were we are for the sake of long term stability." Maumee and Oak Harbor stay where they are and the TAAC gets even smaller (or tries to attract Evergreen).
I'll bite.
I think option two is most viable.
Pros and cons of moving?
PROS
Immediate competitiveness in football, which is certainly important to both schools who have struggled for a number of years in the NBC on the football field.

CONS
Money.
Travel would be a little more (negligible, except for perhaps those trips to Edon, Hilltop and Montpelier and probably Stryker in the future in football).
The main issue is gate receipts which would drop like a rock with a move from the NBC to the TAAC.

Breaking old rivalries dating back 50-60 years.
It's tough to leave the schools you've been rivals with for so long. Plus Elmwood, at least, is competitive in every other NBC sport except for football. Woodmore is a little less competitive in the money sports.

A TAAC without Gibsonburg, at least in my opinion, makes the move less attractive for both schools.

In the end I think they either both stand pat or Woodmore explores its options with the TAAC or even the SBC River (if that's even an option with the new set up).
Elmwood rides it out and hopes their new young football coach can get the program on its feet. I'm not sure if Elmwood or Fostoria, another NBC school with its own struggles, would be warm to Maumee as a new member.
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  #97  
Old 03-17-17, 09:51 AM
OHIOVSTW419 OHIOVSTW419 is offline
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I cant see a Woodmore move to a Gibsonburg-less Taac. They wouldnt have trouble finding OOC games espcially if the TAAC doesnt have 8 football schools, being the SBC river is low on football playing small schools as well, but overall the travel would be a big snag in that deal with the Williams county FB schools, IMO. I personally think Elmwood stays put, its a prideful community, but also cant imagine they would want Maumee in the league. I could see them maybe bargaining and voting for Oak harbor if they were an option.

The big question is what happens at Gburgs next board meeting. If they move to SBC, I think Woodmore would be not too far behind if they can make the move.
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  #98  
Old 03-17-17, 09:51 AM
Cardboard Palace Cardboard Palace is offline
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I don't know the history of the NBC that well. Is the Woodmore/Elmwood decision driven by football?

It seems to me that a lot of schools can handle losses, but not if you are physically getting beaten up.

Some unusual things with the TAAC is that it has some football only schools and wrestling is merged with the TCL since a lot of schools don't have wrestling teams.
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  #99  
Old 03-17-17, 10:43 AM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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The TAAC Western schools are most likely going to form their own league eventually, they only need one more member. That being said Woodmore and Elmwood would be better suited with former SLL mate Northwood.

I heard from an AD in the TAAC it is possible the league just does out. Which means some of the school go to the SBC River or Independent which is even worse for gates.

I know Oak Harbor is tossed in alot of NBC expansion talks but I don't know how badly they want out of the SBC.

Maumee almost joined the NBC when it was formed but one board member didn't have enough knowledge of the situation and said no to the vote causing a 3-2 vote to stay in the NLL.

Question of the hour is what about Northwood. In football they have been a TAAC power and of recent I have heard rumors they want to go to a stronger league
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  #100  
Old 03-17-17, 11:16 AM
OHIOVSTW419 OHIOVSTW419 is offline
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Of recent they are not nearly as dominant as they were 5-10 years ago. Im not sure if theyve even had a share of the league title in the past two years. They may desire stronger football competition but the rest of their sports are getting dialed up in the TAAC, not sure how they would be in even the NBC. If Woodmore were to leave the NBC and Oak Harbor and Maumee would not be choices. I could see the NBC making a run at either Northwood, Ottawa Hills and or Stritch. All of those schools were DIII in hoops this year and the smallest was DVI in football which is pretty unattractive to the higher level football schools in the NBC, but I think these schools would go to great lengths to avoid a 7 team league. It was quite the mess when Lakota left the SLL, trying to find an OOC in the latter part of the year was quite the task
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  #101  
Old 03-17-17, 12:07 PM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHIOVSTW419 View Post
Of recent they are not nearly as dominant as they were 5-10 years ago. Im not sure if theyve even had a share of the league title in the past two years. They may desire stronger football competition but the rest of their sports are getting dialed up in the TAAC, not sure how they would be in even the NBC. If Woodmore were to leave the NBC and Oak Harbor and Maumee would not be choices. I could see the NBC making a run at either Northwood, Ottawa Hills and or Stritch. All of those schools were DIII in hoops this year and the smallest was DVI in football which is pretty unattractive to the higher level football schools in the NBC, but I think these schools would go to great lengths to avoid a 7 team league. It was quite the mess when Lakota left the SLL, trying to find an OOC in the latter part of the year was quite the task
Northwood has been down the last couple years but they have come in second each year or close to it only losing to Gibsonburg and Calvert. To be honest I agree Northwood would only benefit in football to leave the TAAC. The NBC wouldn't want to deal with those small schools anyway. I can't see Ottawa Hills, or Stritch trying to entertain the option of the NBC except in basketball and Soccer.

Either way the next few weeks will be fun to watch.
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  #102  
Old 03-17-17, 12:58 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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I have absolutely no information on this, but I believe it more likely that Woodmore and Elmwood move to the expanding SBC rather than go to the TAAC. Geographically it makes a lot more sense to me.
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  #103  
Old 03-17-17, 01:23 PM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
I have absolutely no information on this, but I believe it more likely that Woodmore and Elmwood move to the expanding SBC rather than go to the TAAC. Geographically it makes a lot more sense to me.
Currently it makes more sense but look for one more school out west to join Stryker, Montpelier, Edon and Hiltop to form a new league
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  #104  
Old 03-17-17, 04:13 PM
zdad2016 zdad2016 is offline
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It's not 100% certain that the NLL would let Clay into the league in the first place is it?? Also, I've had conversations with people in the administration including the AD who are not in favor of moving to the NLL even if it were to open up. Their argument was that Clay has won 13 TRAC championships since 2011 when the conference started. Of course none of them are in the two sports that matter most; football and boys basketball. All of which are from the girls side except wrestling but (according to the internet) 13 is more than Findlay (7), Whitmer (6), Fremont Ross (3), Lima (0) and even Central Catholic at 9. I'm 100% in favor of the move having 2 kids in the Oregon system, but I don't think it's a lock that Clay moves.
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  #105  
Old 03-17-17, 04:32 PM
Trailsendcustom Trailsendcustom is offline
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Originally Posted by zdad2016 View Post
It's not 100% certain that the NLL would let Clay into the league in the first place is it?? Also, I've had conversations with people in the administration including the AD who are not in favor of moving to the NLL even if it were to open up. Their argument was that Clay has won 13 TRAC championships since 2011 when the conference started. Of course none of them are in the two sports that matter most; football and boys basketball. All of which are from the girls side except wrestling but (according to the internet) 13 is more than Findlay (7), Whitmer (6), Fremont Ross (3), Lima (0) and even Central Catholic at 9. I'm 100% in favor of the move having 2 kids in the Oregon system, but I don't think it's a lock that Clay moves.
If the Clay administration decides against moving to the NLL they all should be fired for being morons....Clay should have moved to the NLL when they had the chance years ago. Anyone that thinks they should be in the TRAC is delusional.
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  #106  
Old 03-17-17, 04:34 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by zdad2016 View Post
It's not 100% certain that the NLL would let Clay into the league in the first place is it?? Also, I've had conversations with people in the administration including the AD who are not in favor of moving to the NLL even if it were to open up.
Not too many years ago Napoleon and Clay made a joint proposal to the NLL to join as the ninth and tenth members and were turned down.

When Rossford left, Napoleon and Clay gave individual presentations as to why they should be admitted as the eighth member. Some schools preferred Clay's proximity, others preferred Napoleon's size. Clay's presentation was appropriate, Napoleon rolled out the red carpet.

If somebody left the NLL I think the league would prefer Clay (862) over Fremont Ross (654) because of travel distance. The smaller schools, BG, Maumee, Napoleon, might prefer Fremont Ross. But that's just speculation.
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  #107  
Old 03-17-17, 04:36 PM
smurfyeah19 smurfyeah19 is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Genoa 327, Napoleon 522. Napoleon is about 60% larger than Genoa. That is a big difference.


Exactly. With small schools 200 kids is a massive difference
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  #108  
Old 03-17-17, 05:44 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Originally Posted by Trailsendcustom View Post
If the Clay administration decides against moving to the NLL they all should be fired for being morons....Clay should have moved to the NLL when they had the chance years ago. Anyone that thinks they should be in the TRAC is delusional.
The Clay AD has stated that he wants to stay in the TRAC.

chs1971 is 100% correct on the last time the NLL added a member. Clay essentially asked what has taken you guys so long and Napoleon wined and dined everyone.

IF there becomes an opening, and Clay balks, I believe Ross would jump at the opportunity. But I am still not sure the TAAC moves will create a ripple all the way to the NLL.

As for Oak Harbor, the Rockets are very happy in the SBC and the SBC has been a solid league for years. With their recent expansion it would be great to see them take it a step further and add the NOL teams for a third division which would make the conference absolutely dynamite.

Northwood wants nothing to do with anything other than the TAAC. The Rangers and Coach James remember how painful the old SLL was to them.

Keep in mind it does not necessarily come down to wins and losses. I'd say the most important aspect to being in a league would be fit and stability.
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  #109  
Old 03-17-17, 06:23 PM
Johnson&Johnson Johnson&Johnson is offline
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
The Clay AD has stated that he wants to stay in the TRAC.

As for Oak Harbor, the Rockets are very happy in the SBC and the SBC has been a solid league for years. With their recent expansion it would be great to see them take it a step further and add the NOL teams for a third division which would make the conference absolutely dynamite.
That's an awfully comfy rock you have been living under for the last 12 months (officially) and 18 months of discussions.

Gibsonburg is a done deal to the SBC River. Woodmore may be next. Is Hopewell or Northwood interested? Depends who you ask...

The goal is clearly 8-8-8 for football. That only happens by adding schools in the River and/or Bay divisions which eventually bumps Shelby and Port Clinton/Vermilion up to the Lake Division. Fremont is not an option albeit they make geographic sense.
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  #110  
Old 03-17-17, 07:21 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
With their recent expansion it would be great to see them take it a step further and add the NOL teams for a third division which would make the conference absolutely dynamite.
Dear Mr. Van Winkle,

That's been done, three football divisions starting fall of 2017.
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  #111  
Old 03-17-17, 07:45 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by Johnson&Johnson View Post
The goal is clearly 8-8-8 for football. That only happens by adding schools in the River and/or Bay divisions which eventually bumps Shelby and Port Clinton/Vermilion up to the Lake Division. Fremont is not an option albeit they make geographic sense.
Danbury and Gibsonburg give the SBC 20 schools with football.

Woodmore and Elmwood weren't happy about being "forced" into the NBC. They would make 22, but that is just my speculation.

Hopewell-Loudon is the farthest northeast of the 12 schools in the BVC.

Seneca East is the farthest north of the nine schools in the N10. This would help the N10 as it is a lot easier to schedule 8 than 9, but I don't know if there is any interest.

Upper Sandusky, also in the N10, is D4 in a league of D6's and D7's. A little farther away, but it makes sense.

Fostoria makes a lot of sense, but size wise they would have to go into the middle division. I don't see them leaving the NBC to fail against larger opponents.

Maumee is the right size but too far away.

Fremont Ross is too big, but they are right there. People other than me would have a better idea of how dominant, or not, Ross would be. I think that at some point the big division may decide that adding Ross is better than scheduling random schools from all over the northern half of Ohio.

I think Northwood is too far away.

Last edited by chs1971; 03-17-17 at 08:33 PM.
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  #112  
Old 03-17-17, 08:18 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Dear Mr. Van Winkle,

That's been done, three football divisions starting fall of 2017.
Johnsons correct, it's comfy.

Bolsters my point to having a league with several divisions which creates fluidity and can prevent league jump and new creations every 7-10 years. Kudos to the vision and fortitude to make it happen for the leaders involved.
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  #113  
Old 03-17-17, 08:19 PM
Johnson&Johnson Johnson&Johnson is offline
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You mention some interesting options. Never thought about Seneca East but they could be a sleeper. 118 boys...nearly identical to Lakota, Gibsonburg and Margaretta. More importantly, realigns the Tigers with (at least) six former MAL pals.

Last edited by Johnson&Johnson; 03-17-17 at 08:33 PM.
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  #114  
Old 03-17-17, 09:22 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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* non-SBC member

* 893 Ross, Too big, but right there.
651 Norwalk
649 Columbian
630 Sandusky
* 591 Maumee, A great fit, but too far away. I don't see them spending the time or burning fuel on the road.
560 Clyde
506 Bellevue
495 Perkins, is going to curtail open enrollment, which will make them smaller and Sandusky bigger.
484 Shelby
* 472 Ontario, decided to go elsewhere.
465 Vermillion
457 Port Clinton
* 412 Upper Sandusky
387 Willard
383 Oak Harbor
372 Edison
364 Huron
* 356 Fostoria
* 281 Elmwood
* 265 Woodmore

These three are on the bubble for the Bay and River Divisions. Fostoria has trouble competing in the NBC where they are the second largest. They won't join if they are the smallest in the Bay Division. Same for Elmwood and Woodmore. They don't like being the smallest in the NBC. If either of them is in the Bay Division it will be the same problem they have now, except with schools that are even larger. I don't see any of the three moving.

If the SBC would add three from Ross, Maumee, Ontario, and Upper Sandusky, that would be two pretty good divisions and 16 happy schools. (I just don't see that happening though.) Then add Seneca East or Hopewell-Loudon and there is a third good division and 8 more happy schools.

264 Lakota, Unfortunately for them, could end up in the much larger middle division.
253 Margaretta
* 235 Seneca East
228 Gibsonburg
* 196 Hopewell-Loudon
132 St. Mary's
121 Danbury
104 Calvert
99 St. Joe

non football SBC members

141 Old Fort, Building a field and buying all new equipment is a big expense.
77 New Riegel
63 St. Wendelin, I think they have given up on the idea of fielding a team.

Last edited by chs1971; 03-18-17 at 06:08 AM.
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  #115  
Old 03-18-17, 05:53 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Here's a good solution. The new SBC has 7 small schools with football, they need to add one more for 8 in the River Division and that's perfect. They have five to choose from; Elmwood, Woodmore, Seneca East, Hopewell-Loudon, and even Old Fort. Whoever says "yes" first is in.

There are 13 bigger schools. I don't think that there are 3 schools that they could talk into joining to create two more divisions of 8. But if they add 1 school they can create two divisions of 7. That gives you 3 non-league games, 6 division games, and 1 mandatory crossover game. It is easy to schedule so that the crossover game would be the biggest school in the Lake Division vs. the biggest in the Bay Division, 2nd biggest vs. 2nd biggest, etc.

If the Lake Div. adds Ross the crossover games are;
Ross - Shelby (sorry)
Norwalk - Vermillion
Columbian - Port Clinton
Sandusky - Willard
Clyde - Oak Harbor
Bellevue - Edison
Perkins - Huron
Except for Ross - Shelby, those are pretty good games. I think that most everybody in this Lake Div. could compete with Ross, and Shelby would have it pretty good as the largest school in the Bay Div. But would the three smaller schools, Bellevue, Perkins, and Shelby in the crossover game, vote to add Ross? And Perkins is going to close (or something) open enrollment. Which means students will go back to Sandusky and Perkins will get smaller, which means Shelby and Perkins will switch divisions.

Even better (except for Shelby again), if the Bay Div. could add Upper Sandusky the crossovers are;
Norwalk - Vermillion
Columbian - Port Clinton
Sandusky - Upper Sandusky
Clyde - Willard
Bellevue - Oak Harbor
Perkins - Edison
Shelby - Huron
Still some mismatches, but better. Crossover games are better than trying to schedule a non-league game late in the season where you could end up with a real mismatch 2-3 hours away because that is the best of a lot of bad choices. But is Upper even interested? They are D4 in a league of D6's and 7's, and it's and hour and a half to drive to Vermillion.

This fall the SBC has 3 divisions of 6 schools and everybody had to scramble to find 5 non-league games. That is not a good long term situation. The addition of Danbury and Gibsonburg gives the league 20 football schools. I don't think they can find 4 more to create 3 divisions of 8. But 2 more, and divisions of 7-7-8 is do-able. Except that Ross is too big and Upper may not be interested at all.

In all three divisions, the "non-league" games could, and probably will, include some SBC schools not in your division. It just shouldn't be your crossover opponent.

Last edited by chs1971; 03-18-17 at 06:55 AM.
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  #116  
Old 03-18-17, 09:08 AM
Johnson&Johnson Johnson&Johnson is offline
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Upper is most definitely not coming north. The MOAC would be the best bet, if they were to look elsewhere (by choice or otherwise). If they sniffed the MOAC, Shelby would be interested in joining them for a 10 team MOAC fit. That's the sentiment right now from Shelby. I believe if they get into the SBC and the dust settles a bit, they might realize it's a decent fit for them. That's already starting to happen this year as they started playing more SBC schools this fall (not football) and winter.

Willard will be bumping to the Bay Division eventually. They know it and are fine with it. The big question is who comes next. Lakota or Margaretta or another school not in the conference yet? Enrollment would be Lakota but everyone agrees they have no business playing the Bay schools in anything, especially football. Margaretta would make more sense and they've indicated they are fine with that move as well.

The crossovers between Bay and Lake schools is a big bone of contention. Basically, Edison and Oak Harbor and even Huron now they are "Vermilion West" are the schools that "want their cake and eat it too". The ability to fill the Lake's football schedule in weeks 4 and 5 will ultimately make or break the conference's future IMO.
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  #117  
Old 03-18-17, 09:34 AM
Smalls Smalls is offline
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Dear NLL, Please let Clay into your league. They will compete hard, win some, lose some and provide good ticket sales.

Signed,


Boys football and basketball coaching staff's livers.
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  #118  
Old 03-18-17, 10:14 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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They'll also bring decent baseball, girl's sports and beer.

Do they drink beer in the NLL? Seems more a pinky out cabernet crowd. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Sometimes I wonder how much personal rivalries get in the way of the larger sense. Some of these old jocks can't leave it to history.
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  #119  
Old 03-18-17, 10:42 AM
Smalls Smalls is offline
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Sometimes I wonder how much personal rivalries get in the way of the larger sense. Some of these old jocks can't leave it to history.
Not sure if that was meant toward me, but my post was an attempt at humor. I want to see Clay be successful and the grind of the NLL is a lot easier on a coach and program than the TRAC.

The NLL would be no walk in the park for them either, although the girls pretty much won the NLL in Vball and basketball.

Old jock is a stretch for me, literal and figurative.��

Last edited by Smalls; 03-18-17 at 10:57 AM.
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  #120  
Old 03-18-17, 11:04 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by Johnson&Johnson View Post
Upper is most definitely not coming north.
That's kind of what I thought. Will the SBC bite the bullet and add Fremont Ross?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson&Johnson View Post
Willard will be bumping to the Bay Division eventually. They know it and are fine with it. The big question is who comes next. Lakota or Margaretta or another school not in the conference yet?
Willard has 169 boys and 218 girls. That's going to even out pretty quickly and then they will be right in the middle of the Bay Division.
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