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  #61  
Old 03-11-17, 12:58 PM
Maple_City_Fan Maple_City_Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackets View Post
The whole city of Toledo is in a tough position when it comes to conference realignments. The NLL is clearly the conference in the best position because the school sizes are relatively similar and long distance travel isn't much of an issue. The TRAC however is a conference that was sort of thrown together out of necessity, as they would constantly run into scheduling problems if the schools remained in the city league. With TPS's issues likely not being solved in the near future, I think the TRAC and the NLL are the ones that need to adapt in traveling longer distances for games. Toledo, being in the "middle of nowhere" for OHSAA standards needs to make an effort to branch out to places an hour (maybe even more) away. Here is my suggestion: Make a much larger conference (I would say about 24 teams) with the tier the schools are placed in based on performance.

For Football, I would use the computer points system as the basis for placing teams in four tiers of six teams. This would create a five week "division" schedule. This would allow teams that have rivals in different tiers to schedule games in the first half of the season and also opens game scheduling against teams in the city league if they so choose any time before their conference play opens up. The tiers that each team is placed in could be changed every two years by adding the total amount of computer points each team accumulated over the two year span.

For these tiers, I just used last year's computer points for tiers rather than over the course of many years since I didn't feel like doing math all night, so please don't complain about how they are currently tiered. I know that Perrysburg doesn't belong in the third tier. I just used last years computer points just to give an example. Also I just put in 24 teams that seemed like a good size from the general area that I could see teams joining this hypothetical conference.

Tier 1:
Central Catholic
Springfield
Whitmer
Sandusky
Ottawa Glandorf
Clyde

Tier 2:
Anthony Wayne
Bowling Green
Findlay
St. John's Jesuit
Lima Senior
Norwalk

Tier 3:
Perrysburg
Sandusky Perkins
Napoleon
Elida
Northview
Maumee

Tier 4:
Fremont Ross
Southview
Clay
St. Francis de Sales
Defiance
Tiffin Columbian
You essentially have every SBC Lake Division school, and that won't happen, especially Norwalk. Looking at 2017 Norwalk schedule, they are sticking with history and/or travel. Every game will be 30 minutes, tops.
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  #62  
Old 03-11-17, 03:29 PM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple_City_Fan View Post
You essentially have every SBC Lake Division school, and that won't happen, especially Norwalk. Looking at 2017 Norwalk schedule, they are sticking with history and/or travel. Every game will be 30 minutes, tops.
For this being about a possible TRAC/NLL merger everyone wants to take out the big schools in the SBC. The post quoted earlier has something else interesting. They divide up SBC and WBL schools and place them based on computer points. They added Elida, and OG from the WBL as well as Defiance while keeping Lima Sr and leaving out Bath and Shawnee. Just saying geographically this idea is horrible.
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  #63  
Old 03-12-17, 07:30 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is online now
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Not to mention he puts OG and Clyde in the same division and the top one for some reason while his Yellow Jackets are in "tier 3"?

I believe in the NLL thread he said the Jackets could go undefeated but has them in arguably the weakest division?

As mentioned SBC and WBL schools? Why? Both are solid and content. Heck the NLL is content.

Everyone has an opinion, I get it, but there is ZERO rhyme or reason to Jacket's alignment.
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  #64  
Old 03-12-17, 09:59 AM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
Not to mention he puts OG and Clyde in the same division and the top one for some reason while his Yellow Jackets are in "tier 3"?

I believe in the NLL thread he said the Jackets could go undefeated but has them in arguably the weakest division?

As mentioned SBC and WBL schools? Why? Both are solid and content. Heck the NLL is content.

Everyone has an opinion, I get it, but there is ZERO rhyme or reason to Jacket's alignment.
Also consider the fact that the WBL schools voted to keep Lima Sr out of their league when Lima Sr was bad, because the school is too big for the league. For them all to split up and half of them join a league with Lima Sr is just idiotic.

Give the SBC a couple years. Remember this is only the first year of the new SBC.
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  #65  
Old 03-12-17, 03:22 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is online now
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As I said previously everyone is entitled to their opinion but some have put some serious thought and others with very little knowledge of league makeup and histories decide they'll take a stab at it.

You have to understand which leagues are stable and for the most part content and which ones were developed based out of need rather than want.

Since this is TRAC and NLL based the NLL is very content. No one will voluntarily make their lives more difficult and Perrysburg joining the TRAC would be doing JUST that from not only a competition standpoint but also in travel. There is absolutely no incentive for Perrysburg to change leagues.

As for any new league it needs to be large enough with at least two divisions to have flexibility in order to weather down years and up years for any given school in league. Flexibility is key in order to prevent change and new leagues every 10 years which no one really wants.
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  #66  
Old 03-12-17, 04:19 PM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
As I said previously everyone is entitled to their opinion but some have put some serious thought and others with very little knowledge of league makeup and histories decide they'll take a stab at it.

You have to understand which leagues are stable and for the most part content and which ones were developed based out of need rather than want.

Since this is TRAC and NLL based the NLL is very content. No one will voluntarily make their lives more difficult and Perrysburg joining the TRAC would be doing JUST that from not only a competition standpoint but also in travel. There is absolutely no incentive for Perrysburg to change leagues.

As for any new league it needs to be large enough with at least two divisions to have flexibility in order to weather down years and up years for any given school in league. Flexibility is key in order to prevent change and new leagues every 10 years which no one really wants.
I agree with you. But I want to just pitch this out. If it were a complete merger between the two leagues at some point someone will realize that Maumee, BG, and Napoleon are continuing to shrink. Eventually Napoleon will be D5, Maumee is in a similar position that Rossford was in a few years ago ( not competitive and land locked from growth), BG isn't as bad as they have room to grow, they could become D4 or they could hit a growth spurt and go back to D2. AW will eventually be D1 in the next few years Perrysburg will as well.

Even if a merged TRAC and NLL had fluid divisions that changed based on school size, how long would it last? Eventually Maumee and Napoleon will have to look else where and ruin the perfect 16 team two division make up.

It could even start off looking something like this.

Big Division
Whitmer
Findlay
St John's
Perrysburg
AW
Springfield
Northview
Lima

Small
Clay
Southview
St Francis
Ross
Bowling Green
Maumee
Central
Napoleon

Eventually it would have to change with enrollment. Most likely like this.

Big
Whitmer
St John's
Findlay
Lima
Perrysburg
Northview
Southview
AW

Small
Clay
Ross
St Francis
Central D4 and not leaving
BG
Maumee D4 in NBC or SBC
Napoleon D5 in NWOAL
Springfield

This later in time version would be what could happen with fluid divisions. And if the divisions are based on enrollment look for the small division teams to finally leave on their own because Central will continue to shrink and be powerful.
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  #67  
Old 03-12-17, 10:00 PM
cchs1983 cchs1983 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haydenfrye View Post
And if the divisions are based on enrollment look for the small division teams to finally leave on their own because Central will continue to shrink and be powerful.
For the past 3 years, Central Catholic is the only TRAC private school to increase enrollment year after year after year. Projections for next year show another year of growth while the competition struggles for numbers again.
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  #68  
Old 03-13-17, 06:38 AM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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Originally Posted by cchs1983 View Post
For the past 3 years, Central Catholic is the only TRAC private school to increase enrollment year after year after year. Projections for next year show another year of growth while the competition struggles for numbers again.
If that's true how have they dropped from D2 to D3 and manage to stay D3 while competitive balance is put in place. If they are growing consistently over the last 3 years they would be D2 again.
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  #69  
Old 03-13-17, 08:39 AM
Trailsendcustom Trailsendcustom is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cchs1983 View Post
For the past 3 years, Central Catholic is the only TRAC private school to increase enrollment year after year after year. Projections for next year show another year of growth while the competition struggles for numbers again.
Are you using alternative facts? According to the official OHSAA numbers TCC Has lost kids every cycle.

2013 375 boys. 335 girls
2015 257 boys. 241 girls
2017 235 boys. 212 girls
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  #70  
Old 03-13-17, 10:02 AM
cchs1983 cchs1983 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailsendcustom View Post
Are you using alternative facts? According to the official OHSAA numbers TCC Has lost kids every cycle.

2013 375 boys. 335 girls
2015 257 boys. 241 girls
2017 235 boys. 212 girls
I'll re-check the numbers, the one difference being I only know total numbers, not the boys versus girls numbers. Apologize if I'm wrong, let me re-check.
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  #71  
Old 03-13-17, 10:07 AM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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Originally Posted by cchs1983 View Post
I'll re-check the numbers, the one difference being I only know total numbers, not the boys versus girls numbers. Apologize if I'm wrong, let me re-check.
Just looking at the stated numbers, even the total numbers have been steadily declining at an alarming rate.if that trend continues Stritch and CC will be the same size
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  #72  
Old 03-13-17, 10:42 AM
cchs1983 cchs1983 is offline
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Originally Posted by haydenfrye View Post
Just looking at the stated numbers, even the total numbers have been steadily declining at an alarming rate.if that trend continues Stritch and CC will be the same size
I have a son who is a freshman and was told he was apart of the third straight year of increasing enrollment and next years numbers are projected to be higher, so that would be 2015-2018. Let me ask around and see what I can find out, maybe I 'mis-remember'.
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  #73  
Old 03-13-17, 11:28 AM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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Could be the third consecutive year of a big freshmen class, but those kids may not stick around through 4 years
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  #74  
Old 03-13-17, 04:45 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Once they don't make varsity.
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  #75  
Old 03-13-17, 06:53 PM
dappling dappling is offline
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Two thoughts...

1. I am surprised that Stritch isn't bigger as it is the least expensive private school. Also..if a boy likes football but can't see himself staring at TCC, I think Stritch would be a smart move.

2. I think TCC's enrollment is dropping like a rock.
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  #76  
Old 03-13-17, 07:49 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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eastisbest will become famous soon enough
or... it's the least expensive private school because....

I think Stritch has traditionally been well placed, though starting to show their political muscle to the consternation of the neighbors. They're better when they realize they're not all that. Humble is better.
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  #77  
Old 03-13-17, 09:58 PM
Zuke Zuke is offline
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Originally Posted by Trailsendcustom View Post
Are you using alternative facts? According to the official OHSAA numbers TCC Has lost kids every cycle.

2013 375 boys. 335 girls
2015 257 boys. 241 girls
2017 235 boys. 212 girls
The numbers for 2017 listed above are for grades 9-11. The Junior class at TCC is tiny. I think they have less than 120 kids in that class. However, I believe that the class of 2019 has about 150 kids and the class of 2020 has more than 170 kids. I have heard that they sent out over 200 acceptance letters for incoming students next year.

So yes, they are growing their enrollment. I believe that you will see them in the 500-550 range for the combination of boys and girls grade 9-11 for the next several years.
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  #78  
Old 03-13-17, 10:12 PM
Trailsendcustom Trailsendcustom is online now
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Originally Posted by Zuke View Post
The numbers for 2017 listed above are for grades 9-11. The Junior class at TCC is tiny. I think they have less than 120 kids in that class. However, I believe that the class of 2019 has about 150 kids and the class of 2020 has more than 170 kids. I have heard that they sent out over 200 acceptance letters for incoming students next year.

So yes, they are growing their enrollment. I believe that you will see them in the 500-550 range for the combination of boys and girls grade 9-11 for the next several years.
That's growing? That's still far less than 2013 and only about equal to 2015.
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  #79  
Old 03-13-17, 11:45 PM
Zuke Zuke is offline
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Originally Posted by Trailsendcustom View Post
That's growing? That's still far less than 2013 and only about equal to 2015.
Absolutely. The number of students as a whole in northwest Ohio had been on the decline for the last 10 years. Most schools in NWO that are land locked have seen a decrease in enrollment. In Ohio, between 06-11, enrollment in public elementary and high schools dropped 5.3 percent. They project a continued decrease through 2023 by another 4.4 percent. Now consider the number of Catholic feeder schools in NWO that have closed over the last 10 years, the number of charter schools and the number of non-Catholic private schools that have arrived over that time. All things considered, TCC's enrollment increases of approximately 20 percent per year (class of 2019 through the class of 2021) look pretty good.
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  #80  
Old 03-14-17, 12:07 AM
Trailsendcustom Trailsendcustom is online now
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Originally Posted by Zuke View Post
Absolutely. The number of students as a whole in northwest Ohio had been on the decline for the last 10 years. Most schools in NWO that are land locked have seen a decrease in enrollment. In Ohio, between 06-11, enrollment in public elementary and high schools dropped 5.3 percent. They project a continued decrease through 2023 by another 4.4 percent. Now consider the number of Catholic feeder schools in NWO that have closed over the last 10 years, the number of charter schools and the number of non-Catholic private schools that have arrived over that time. All things considered, TCC's enrollment increases of approximately 20 percent per year (class of 2019 through the class of 2021) look pretty good.
Yeah, I know all that ^^ stuff and maintaining a steady enrollment is great but...

2019-2021:150+170+200=520

2015 257+241=498

That's assuming all 200 accepted actually enroll. Looks more like 4-5% total increase at best to me. Your numbers don't add up. Compared to just four years ago its a 30% decline. If you are comparing growth to just the small junior class then you are just jostling numbers to make yourself feel better.
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  #81  
Old 03-15-17, 03:32 AM
NLLBEST NLLBEST is offline
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Not sure why everyone assumes Maumee's going to continue to shrink. Maumee consistently has graduated between 180-240 kids in every class for over a decade. Some years the class is small and in the last decade a few classes were larger but I haven't heard anyone in the Maumee area say they expect classes to go below the sizes they are at now anytime in the near future. Maumee will continue to sit around the 300 mark for divisional alignment.
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  #82  
Old 03-15-17, 07:30 PM
smurfyeah19 smurfyeah19 is offline
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Originally Posted by haydenfrye View Post
I agree with you. But I want to just pitch this out. If it were a complete merger between the two leagues at some point someone will realize that Maumee, BG, and Napoleon are continuing to shrink. Eventually Napoleon will be D5, Maumee is in a similar position that Rossford was in a few years ago ( not competitive and land locked from growth), BG isn't as bad as they have room to grow, they could become D4 or they could hit a growth spurt and go back to D2. AW will eventually be D1 in the next few years Perrysburg will as well.



Even if a merged TRAC and NLL had fluid divisions that changed based on school size, how long would it last? Eventually Maumee and Napoleon will have to look else where and ruin the perfect 16 team two division make up.



It could even start off looking something like this.



Big Division

Whitmer

Findlay

St John's

Perrysburg

AW

Springfield

Northview

Lima



Small

Clay

Southview

St Francis

Ross

Bowling Green

Maumee

Central

Napoleon



Eventually it would have to change with enrollment. Most likely like this.



Big

Whitmer

St John's

Findlay

Lima

Perrysburg

Northview

Southview

AW



Small

Clay

Ross

St Francis

Central D4 and not leaving

BG

Maumee D4 in NBC or SBC

Napoleon D5 in NWOAL

Springfield



This later in time version would be what could happen with fluid divisions. And if the divisions are based on enrollment look for the small division teams to finally leave on their own because Central will continue to shrink and be powerful.


What a ridiculous post. You're telling me Napoleon is going to be as small as Genoa one day? Give me a break buddy. Really both conferences are in excellent shape, and the NLL has one of the best combinations of size and travel around.

There is this insane obsession with towns being land locked. That doesn't matter nearly as much as where families are moving. Perrysburg and AW are great examples of this, while the towns aren't huge the percentage of families is hence their large student populations. Maumee and Napoleon are fine places that people are not flocking from the way they are in Rossford for example
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  #83  
Old 03-15-17, 07:38 PM
smurfyeah19 smurfyeah19 is offline
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Let me add too that it's more about competitiveness than anything else. Lima was a doormat until they got a football and basketball coach worth a damn, now they're consistently in the top half for both sports.

Ross and Clay could absolutely be there if the right pieces come together


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  #84  
Old 03-16-17, 07:01 AM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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Originally Posted by smurfyeah19 View Post
Let me add too that it's more about competitiveness than anything else. Lima was a doormat until they got a football and basketball coach worth a damn, now they're consistently in the top half for both sports.

Ross and Clay could absolutely be there if the right pieces come together


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For one don't use Lima as a consistency. The have strung together a couple good years. They aren't quite consistent yet.

Ross is always right there in the wings. They always have been.

Clay has been looking for the right pieces since Ted Federici retired. That's 35 years plus.
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  #85  
Old 03-16-17, 07:02 AM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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Originally Posted by smurfyeah19 View Post
What a ridiculous post. You're telling me Napoleon is going to be as small as Genoa one day? Give me a break buddy. Really both conferences are in excellent shape, and the NLL has one of the best combinations of size and travel around.

There is this insane obsession with towns being land locked. That doesn't matter nearly as much as where families are moving. Perrysburg and AW are great examples of this, while the towns aren't huge the percentage of families is hence their large student populations. Maumee and Napoleon are fine places that people are not flocking from the way they are in Rossford for example
In case you haven't noticed, which judging by your post you haven't, Napoleon has shrunk to D4. That's not a far cry from being the same size as Genoa.
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  #86  
Old 03-16-17, 10:00 AM
Trailsendcustom Trailsendcustom is online now
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Originally Posted by smurfyeah19 View Post
What a ridiculous post. You're telling me Napoleon is going to be as small as Genoa one day? Give me a break buddy. Really both conferences are in excellent shape, and the NLL has one of the best combinations of size and travel around.

There is this insane obsession with towns being land locked. That doesn't matter nearly as much as where families are moving. Perrysburg and AW are great examples of this, while the towns aren't huge the percentage of families is hence their large student populations. Maumee and Napoleon are fine places that people are not flocking from the way they are in Rossford for example
This post is a disaster...first, Genoa and Napoleon are only one division apart.

The second part is much more ridiculous. Maumee is extremely land locked. Perrysburg and AW are "little" towns maybe but their school districts are huge geographically and they are located in areas people are rushing to move into. Maumee school district is only 9 square miles with no more areas for growth. The Andersons, the old ford plant, the rec cents, arrowhead park, the quarry and the retail along Conant take up virtually half of the land in Maumee. This leaves about 4-5 square miles for residential. This compares to districts like Northwood at 8 square miles and not that far off from Ottawa Hills at 2 square miles. Perrysburg by comparison is 28 square miles and AW is huge at 74 square miles. Rossford is 26 square miles. That's a lot of room for subdivisions or apartment complexes that Maumee just does not have.
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  #87  
Old 03-16-17, 12:46 PM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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Originally Posted by Trailsendcustom View Post
This post is a disaster...first, Genoa and Napoleon are only one division apart.

The second part is much more ridiculous. Maumee is extremely land locked. Perrysburg and AW are "little" towns maybe but their school districts are huge geographically and they are located in areas people are rushing to move into. Maumee school district is only 9 square miles with no more areas for growth. The Andersons, the old ford plant, the rec cents, arrowhead park, the quarry and the retail along Conant take up virtually half of the land in Maumee. This leaves about 4-5 square miles for residential. This compares to districts like Northwood at 8 square miles and not that far off from Ottawa Hills at 2 square miles. Perrysburg by comparison is 28 square miles and AW is huge at 74 square miles. Rossford is 26 square miles. That's a lot of room for subdivisions or apartment complexes that Maumee just does not have.
This right here. I guess Smurfyeah19 might need more geography classes.
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  #88  
Old 03-16-17, 01:27 PM
dappling dappling is offline
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Originally Posted by Trailsendcustom View Post
This post is a disaster...first, Genoa and Napoleon are only one division apart.

The second part is much more ridiculous. Maumee is extremely land locked. Perrysburg and AW are "little" towns maybe but their school districts are huge geographically and they are located in areas people are rushing to move into. Maumee school district is only 9 square miles with no more areas for growth. The Andersons, the old ford plant, the rec cents, arrowhead park, the quarry and the retail along Conant take up virtually half of the land in Maumee. This leaves about 4-5 square miles for residential. This compares to districts like Northwood at 8 square miles and not that far off from Ottawa Hills at 2 square miles. Perrysburg by comparison is 28 square miles and AW is huge at 74 square miles. Rossford is 26 square miles. That's a lot of room for subdivisions or apartment complexes that Maumee just does not have.
I am going to say this again. Maumee being not "competitive" has to SOME with size..but also a lot with program design, emphasis, etc.

Look at Maumee ball...there were three to four starters that did not play this year.
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  #89  
Old 03-16-17, 03:29 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by Trailsendcustom View Post
This post is a disaster...first, Genoa and Napoleon are only one division apart.
Genoa 327, Napoleon 522. Napoleon is about 60% larger than Genoa. That is a big difference.
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  #90  
Old 03-16-17, 08:09 PM
Trailsendcustom Trailsendcustom is online now
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Originally Posted by dappling View Post
I am going to say this again. Maumee being not "competitive" has to SOME with size..but also a lot with program design, emphasis, etc.

Look at Maumee ball...there were three to four starters that did not play this year.
Dappling, my comment had nothing to do with sports. Merely sharing facts about geography.
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