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  #31  
Old 03-01-17, 05:16 AM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Nothing St. Wendlein or Lakota did had anything to do with Rossford or Fostoria being part of the new NBC, or the formation of the TRAC.
I will explain this again. St Wendelin leaving the MAL opened a spot for Lakota to leave the SLL. When that happened both Rossford and Fostoria wanted that spot in the SLL, which Woodmore and Elmwood did not want to have happen. That is what destroyed the SLL and began the NBC. The fact you don't see this is mind boggling.
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  #32  
Old 03-01-17, 05:55 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haydenfrye View Post
I will explain this again. St Wendelin leaving the MAL opened a spot for Lakota to leave the SLL. When that happened both Rossford and Fostoria wanted that spot in the SLL, which Woodmore and Elmwood did not want to have happen. That is what destroyed the SLL and began the NBC. The fact you don't see this is mind boggling.
Upon further review, your whole post makes a lot more sense than I originally thought. So, good job.

I still don't think Woodmore and Elmwood go to the TAAC. Those Williams County football-only schools are a long way away. I think the expanding SBC is a better fit, and they need more members. But I have absolutely no information from anyone at Woodmore or Elmwood, and I like the SBC and not the TAAC, but that doesn't mean they do.

BG -715
Maumee - 591
Napoleon - 522
Lake - 402
Otsego - 388
Rossford - 383
Eastwood - 361
Fostoria - 356
Genoa - 327
There is no talk at BG of leaving the NLL, Maumee and Napoleon have both talked about it. The smaller six might not like adding Maumee and Napoleon, but I suppose it could happen.


Findlay - 1159
Perrysburg - 1136
AW - 1087
Northview - 962
Springfield - 900
Fremont Ross - 893
Oregon Clay - 862
Southview - 792
BG - 715
If Maumee or Napoleon go Clay is in. If both go then Fremont Ross is a better fit. Findlay will be perceived as too big.

Last edited by chs1971; 03-01-17 at 06:25 AM.
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  #33  
Old 03-01-17, 06:09 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Might need to consider the effects of TWO PBurg schools. It's happening in a lot of the main city burbs, why not here?
Because Toledo is not the economic power that Columbus is. P'burg and AW might be growing, but not like Olentangy or Dublin.
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  #34  
Old 03-01-17, 06:18 AM
NLLBEST NLLBEST is offline
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Yeah if perrysburg split into two schools they would have two school slightly smaller than maumee...how don't they understand they need to leave the NLL?
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  #35  
Old 03-01-17, 06:21 AM
NLLBEST NLLBEST is offline
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And if Maumee and Napoleon join the NBC you would end up with 6 teams complaining about 2 schools being much bigger and how it is unfair. Send pburg to the trac for clay, if Anthony Wayne ever gets too big or napoleon decides to move elsewhere then you add Ross
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  #36  
Old 03-01-17, 06:46 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLLBEST View Post
And if Maumee and Napoleon join the NBC you would end up with 6 teams complaining about 2 schools being much bigger and how it is unfair. Send pburg to the trac for clay, if Anthony Wayne ever gets too big or napoleon decides to move elsewhere then you add Ross
Why wait? Send AW and Perrysburg to the TRAC for Clay and Ross, Maumee and Napoleon stay in the NLL.
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  #37  
Old 03-01-17, 07:41 AM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Upon further review, your whole post makes a lot more sense than I originally thought. So, good job.

I still don't think Woodmore and Elmwood go to the TAAC. Those Williams County football-only schools are a long way away. I think the expanding SBC is a better fit, and they need more members. But I have absolutely no information from anyone at Woodmore or Elmwood, and I like the SBC and not the TAAC, but that doesn't mean they do.

BG -715
Maumee - 591
Napoleon - 522
Lake - 402
Otsego - 388
Rossford - 383
Eastwood - 361
Fostoria - 356
Genoa - 327
There is no talk at BG of leaving the NLL, Maumee and Napoleon have both talked about it. The smaller six might not like adding Maumee and Napoleon, but I suppose it could happen.


Findlay - 1159
Perrysburg - 1136
AW - 1087
Northview - 962
Springfield - 900
Fremont Ross - 893
Oregon Clay - 862
Southview - 792
BG - 715
If Maumee or Napoleon go Clay is in. If both go then Fremont Ross is a better fit. Findlay will be perceived as too big.
Those Williams County football only schools have just been joined by Stryker. There are now 4 of them. If another school out that way starts football look for them to form a new conference for football.

Maumee is only going to continue to shrink. Napoleon is still competitive in the NLL and also D4, but if they were to go the NBC or NWOAL (who booted them out 50 years ago) are there best options. BG has rivalries with many of the NBC schools as they, BG, continue to shrink.

Woodmore and Elmwood could finally be very competitive in the TAAC. They are the right size for the TAAC and not far from the footprint of the TAAC or SBC. So either is an option but there are now openings in the TAAC and a fear in that league of disbanding if they can't bring in two all sports schools.

Findlay into the NLL is only a rumor I heard yesterday. I wouldn't put any weight on it. Clay is a guarantee to the NLL if one member leaves. Which Clay should of been in instead of Napoleon anyway but that's a side rant. Fremont Ross isn't really wanted by the NLL do to distance but I think push comes to shove they are the second choice.

As for Perrysburg to the TRAC in a trade with Clay. You'd get a school that is bad in most sports staying bad in most sports in the NLL. While Perrysburg would not be able to stay consistent in the TRAC. Now in 5 years if the student population hits projected numbers then yes it makes alot of sense. But Clay would also become a big fish in a small pond in the NLL as there is more growth in AW district as well as Oregon than there is in Sylvania, Holland, BG, Napoleon, and the rest of the league.
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  #38  
Old 03-01-17, 10:20 AM
Trailsendcustom Trailsendcustom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haydenfrye View Post
But Clay would also become a big fish in a small pond in the NLL as there is more growth in AW district as well as Oregon than there is in Sylvania, Holland, BG, Napoleon, and the rest of the league.
Growth in Oregon? The population of Oregon has gone up about 1,500 people in the last 40 years. The number of students at Clay has not changed much over the last 25 years. A couple of bigger classes here and there but that's about it.
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  #39  
Old 03-01-17, 10:37 AM
Jackets Jackets is offline
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Quick question. Do other states around the country allow for conferences to include teams from multiple states? Because if the TRAC and the NLL could add teams from north of the border such as Bedford or Saline then that would solve a lot of problems. The biggest conflict would be that Michigan only has a 9 game regular season. This can be solved however by starting conference play a week early in Ohio and having a non conference week 10 opponent in the Ohio schools.
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  #40  
Old 03-01-17, 10:44 AM
FremontKeith FremontKeith is offline
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These threads and the rumors about what people "have heard" are always entertaining to read.
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  #41  
Old 03-01-17, 11:33 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by NLLBEST View Post
Yeah if perrysburg split into two schools they would have two school slightly smaller than maumee...how don't they understand they need to leave the NLL?
Someon posted PBurg is projected to have 2000 students in the not distance future. I was responding to that projection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailsendcustom View Post
Growth in Oregon? The population of Oregon has gone up about 1,500 people in the last 40 years. The number of students at Clay has not changed much over the last 25 years. A couple of bigger classes here and there but that's about it.
I don't think they're talking population. I think they're talking the number of Wendy's customers. If divisions were decided by parental weight, Oregon would be DI and Whitmer a small college.
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  #42  
Old 03-01-17, 12:00 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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haydenfrye is right in several regards.

One, Perrysburg is growing but not at the rate that people think. As a matter of fact over the past 25 years the HS has only grown by 100 boys grades 10-12. He is right in the fact that Perrysburg is growing in terms of NWOhio which has very little growth. The C-Bus burbs have exploded over the past 25 years. So, where you had a Perrysburg with 475 boys in 1992 and an Olentangy with roughly 475 boys today you have Perrysburg with 575 boys and Olentangy with three high school's all around 600+ boys. Same with Dublin (3) and Hilliard (2) and Pickerington (2).

When it comes to Oregon he simply points to the fact of possible growth. Maumee is very land locked. Springfield is getting that way. Keep in mind Oregon has two major refineries, is in the process of building two 850MW Natural Gas fired powerhouses, and two new chemical plants. Heavy industry? Yes, in the Northwest section of the city. The remaining land mass of Oregon and Jerusalem Township is very nice. Not to mention that industry is going to create good paying jobs and help fund a school district in a city that offers quite a bit more than other NWOhio districts (lake access, a Metro Park AND a State Park, bike trails, YMCA, great city recreation, etc...). Oregon will grow.

The bottom line is the Ohio Cardinal Conference nailed this down years ago. Unless you want new and defunct conferences every 6-7 years make one larger conference that is FLUID. Districts will constantly be in flux not only from a population standpoint but also from a talent perspective. That is the nature of HS, especially public schools where one year your student population can be down but your talent is up and vice versa.

Having MI teams to use for a league would be nice but it has been tried and it is tough to do. Bedford was a member of the GLL for years and I believe if you would ask anyone in that district today they would tell you they are happy where they are at (do they still have girls volleyball in fall?).

You need the vision to have one larger conference with three divisions that can readjust based on all of these impacting forces every 2-3 years. So most agree that the NLL is that kid with the ball and he decides who plays, right? Aside from beating that kid up and taking his ball which you cannot do anymore you simply build/create a better ball. The TRAC and the TCL should get together and form this mega league. Perhaps talk to the NBC about a third division. Build a better ball.
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  #43  
Old 03-01-17, 12:55 PM
dappling dappling is offline
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Thoughts:

1. Enrollment figures in Maumee are projected to stay the same. No growth...but no further shrinkage either.

2. From a taxpayer standpoint, If I lived in p-burg, I would fight like hell NOT to have two high schools. It is a waste of resources...two principals...two head football coaches, two cafeterias, etc. Larger high schools are always cheaper on a per/pupil basis ("Economy of Scale.") Ohio has way too many high schools as it is.

In Indiana, the philosophy is big high schools to save money. The Suburban high schools around Indy (e.g. Carmel, Ben Davis, Warren Central, all have 4000+ students).

If two spots opened up in the NBC and Napoleon went with Maumee, I think I could support that. Those two schools might not be the the NBC's first choices, but if they needed to add two schools, they would probably be forced too or lose schools to the SBC. I have heard rumors however that Oak Harbor would like to be in the NBC.

I am also not convinced that some of Maumee's recent struggle in athletics as all attributed to "numbers."

Speaking of numbers, what will TPS do as their enrollment shrinks? Are Woodward and Scott viable with 450 kids? They REALLY missed the boat simply rebuilding existing high schools.
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  #44  
Old 03-01-17, 01:06 PM
BigK72 BigK72 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
haydenfrye is right in several regards.

One, Perrysburg is growing but not at the rate that people think. As a matter of fact over the past 25 years the HS has only grown by 100 boys grades 10-12. He is right in the fact that Perrysburg is growing in terms of NWOhio which has very little growth. The C-Bus burbs have exploded over the past 25 years. So, where you had a Perrysburg with 475 boys in 1992 and an Olentangy with roughly 475 boys today you have Perrysburg with 575 boys and Olentangy with three high school's all around 600+ boys. Same with Dublin (3) and Hilliard (2) and Pickerington (2).

When it comes to Oregon he simply points to the fact of possible growth. Maumee is very land locked. Springfield is getting that way. Keep in mind Oregon has two major refineries, is in the process of building two 850MW Natural Gas fired powerhouses, and two new chemical plants. Heavy industry? Yes, in the Northwest section of the city. The remaining land mass of Oregon and Jerusalem Township is very nice. Not to mention that industry is going to create good paying jobs and help fund a school district in a city that offers quite a bit more than other NWOhio districts (lake access, a Metro Park AND a State Park, bike trails, YMCA, great city recreation, etc...). Oregon will grow.

The bottom line is the Ohio Cardinal Conference nailed this down years ago. Unless you want new and defunct conferences every 6-7 years make one larger conference that is FLUID. Districts will constantly be in flux not only from a population standpoint but also from a talent perspective. That is the nature of HS, especially public schools where one year your student population can be down but your talent is up and vice versa.

Having MI teams to use for a league would be nice but it has been tried and it is tough to do. Bedford was a member of the GLL for years and I believe if you would ask anyone in that district today they would tell you they are happy where they are at (do they still have girls volleyball in fall?).

You need the vision to have one larger conference with three divisions that can readjust based on all of these impacting forces every 2-3 years. So most agree that the NLL is that kid with the ball and he decides who plays, right? Aside from beating that kid up and taking his ball which you cannot do anymore you simply build/create a better ball. The TRAC and the TCL should get together and form this mega league. Perhaps talk to the NBC about a third division. Build a better ball.
I used to live in Bedford just 3 years ago. Yes, Michigan still does girls VB in the fall.
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  #45  
Old 03-01-17, 03:55 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackets View Post
Quick question. Do other states around the country allow for conferences to include teams from multiple states? Because if the TRAC and the NLL could add teams from north of the border such as Bedford or Saline then that would solve a lot of problems. The biggest conflict would be that Michigan only has a 9 game regular season. This can be solved however by starting conference play a week early in Ohio and having a non conference week 10 opponent in the Ohio schools.
Unsure about MI, but Ohio's Tri-Valley Conference along the Ohio River has a WV school participating in it.
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  #46  
Old 03-01-17, 06:36 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dappling View Post
Thoughts:

...
Speaking of numbers, what will TPS do as their enrollment shrinks? Are Woodward and Scott viable with 450 kids?
I think I read TPS numbers are trending up?

The rebuild probably worked out exactly as it would have if they'd been forward thinking. It's about time commute, not distance. Cities and suburbs are not equal. No school was going to serve all the north end and their own district without major relocation. The only land swap I can think of available for that would have been the brown field at the old Jeep, which would have been at the very far edge of those being served.

Knock them all down and start again with any land desired available and I think you end up with pretty much what we already have? Maybe Woodward - Libbey instead of Woodward - Scott. It's the nature of the geography.

Edit: I might retract that. Looking at the district map, there might be argument for a mega school made out of the Bowsher-Rogers district, south down Secor from the SE corner of OH continuing down Byrne. It would probably get "culturally" gerrymandered to include the River Rd section to Glendale. How to divy the remainder is still problematic far as I can see. Maybe Secor to Cherry for a second. Start pretty much as is and combine north and East as it nearly is anyhow. The problem historically, culturally and logistically is that both Libbey and Scott are virtually inaccessible, no where near any major commuting route. Knocking down both was never going to happen.

Last edited by eastisbest; 03-01-17 at 07:03 PM.
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  #47  
Old 03-01-17, 06:37 PM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dock View Post
Unsure about MI, but Ohio's Tri-Valley Conference along the Ohio River has a WV school participating in it.
The OVAC actually has multiple teams from both states. District 10 in Pennsylvania includes Conneaut. Michigan has leagues in the UP that include Wisconsin schools. I'm not saying all states have leagues like this but I'm guessing quite a few do
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  #48  
Old 03-01-17, 06:39 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haydenfrye View Post
Napoleon is still competitive in the NLL ...
Napoleon is competitive in a couple of boy's sports and their girl teams not at all. They are already talking about leaving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haydenfrye View Post
BG has rivalries with many of the NBC schools ...
No they don't.

Fostoria was a longtime rival until BG dropped Fostoria in the mid-eighties. BG put Fostoria back on the schedule early in the 2000's but Fostoria broke the contract to get out. They cannot compete anymore.

Otsego's big rival is BG, but BG does not care about Otsego. It is completely one sided.

Rossford was sort of a rival of BG's 20-25 years ago, and continued to play BG after Rossford left for the NBC. But Rossford is dropping BG from it's schedule. Not much of a rivalry if you don't play.

And there is no talk in BG about leaving the NLL.
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  #49  
Old 03-01-17, 09:03 PM
Trailsendcustom Trailsendcustom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
Oregon will grow.

They've been planning on that for 40 years...it still hasn't happened. Industry has grown recently but it's kind of just making up for some of the losses over the last 20 years. Once those new power plants are finished they will only employ about 50 people. The old coal plant had more than three times that amount at one time.

People seem to not want to live in Oregon, they are afraid to cross over to the east side of the river. That's fine with me, I hate the traffic on the west side.

Now if we could only get a Chick fil-A or a Culver's over here then maybe the masses would follow...
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  #50  
Old 03-01-17, 09:11 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Oregon could stand for more home-grown and fewer chains. They've no identity other than a very annoying landscaper, to attract new people.
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  #51  
Old 03-01-17, 09:28 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailsendcustom View Post
They've been planning on that for 40 years...it still hasn't happened. Industry has grown recently but it's kind of just making up for some of the losses over the last 20 years. Once those new power plants are finished they will only employ about 50 people. The old coal plant had more than three times that amount at one time.

People seem to not want to live in Oregon, they are afraid to cross over to the east side of the river. That's fine with me, I hate the traffic on the west side.

Now if we could only get a Chick fil-A or a Culver's over here then maybe the masses would follow...
Good points. And the last two stanzas are spot on.
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  #52  
Old 03-01-17, 09:31 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Oregon could stand for more home-grown and fewer chains. They've no identity other than a very annoying landscaper, to attract new people.
I like home grown as well. Black Forest is good. Started by a German not so home grown. Oregon Inn is a nice place with good eats. I believe the owner is another outsider as well. If Anthony Bourdain came calling he'd probably head to Packo's but I'd take him to the Limestone.
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  #53  
Old 03-02-17, 07:53 AM
smurfyeah19 smurfyeah19 is offline
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Few thoughts here...

Would be shocked if any changes to the SBC occurs, next season they go to a 3 division 7 team conference that has been one hell of a project to put together.

Doubtful that Maumee or Napoleon are accepted into the NBC, farm schools aren't big on change and those big schools certainly would be.

Finally if a Perrysburg or Anthony Wayne wanted into the TRAC, I highly doubt Ross is ever invited to the NLL. As I said in another thread Fremont has serious problems within their district and town, no way the more affluent suburbs want that in their conference. IMO Clay should be in the NLL and is a perfect fit


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  #54  
Old 03-02-17, 09:14 AM
Krasula24 Krasula24 is offline
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The NWOAL is sort of in the same boat. They recently had school leave the league (Montpeilier) and only has 8 schools. Napoleon and Maumee would be a perfect fit in the NWOAL, imo.
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  #55  
Old 03-02-17, 10:29 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by Krasula24 View Post
The NWOAL is sort of in the same boat. They recently had school leave the league (Montpeilier) and only has 8 schools. Napoleon and Maumee would be a perfect fit in the NWOAL, imo.
Actually an 8 team league is a lot easier to schedule than a 9 team or 10 team league.
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  #56  
Old 03-02-17, 10:36 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by smurfyeah19 View Post
Few thoughts here...

Would be shocked if any changes to the SBC occurs, next season they go to a 3 division 7 team conference.
In football it will be three divisions of six team each.

But that will soon change if it is true that Gibsonburg and Danbury are joining the league.
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  #57  
Old 03-02-17, 11:28 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Upon further review, your whole post makes a lot more sense than I originally thought. So, good job.
Whew, hardenfrye everyday is not something pretty. Wouldn't want to see what he's like all mind boggled.
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  #58  
Old 03-02-17, 03:54 PM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Whew, hardenfrye everyday is not something pretty. Wouldn't want to see what he's like all mind boggled.
Too much information on the hard drive
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  #59  
Old 03-10-17, 09:24 AM
det1var det1var is offline
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Obviously all of this is conjecture but we already know Gburg and Danbury are leaving TAAC. What if:

Elmwood and Woodmore join TAAC to replace those 2 (comparable size) or maybe even the SBC (better geographically).

NWOAL and remainder of NBC form 2 divisions (Big and Small):

Big
Bryan
Fostoria
Lake
Otsego
Rossford
Swanton
Wauseon

Small
Archbold
Delta
Eastwood
Evergreen
Genoa
LC
PH

If Maumee and Napoleon were to join, slide them in the Big division and move Swanton, Otsego or Lake to Small. Could also have a variation of an East/West or North/South but logistically could pose some issues.
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  #60  
Old 03-10-17, 10:46 AM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by det1var View Post
Obviously all of this is conjecture but we already know Gburg and Danbury are leaving TAAC. What if:

Elmwood and Woodmore join TAAC to replace those 2 (comparable size) or maybe even the SBC (better geographically).

NWOAL and remainder of NBC form 2 divisions (Big and Small):

Big
Bryan
Fostoria
Lake
Otsego
Rossford
Swanton
Wauseon

Small
Archbold
Delta
Eastwood
Evergreen
Genoa
LC
PH

If Maumee and Napoleon were to join, slide them in the Big division and move Swanton, Otsego or Lake to Small. Could also have a variation of an East/West or North/South but logistically could pose some issues.
This is honestly one of the most logical ideas yet. I remember hearing years ago that Evergreen or Swanton would go to the TAAC and while Otsego would go to the NWOAL and PH to the BVC. That of course isn't an option but I like the look of this suggestion
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