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  #1  
Old 02-26-17, 08:34 PM
dappling dappling is offline
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TRAC/NLL Merger

Enrollments and demographics in NW Ohio are changing. Every Sunday I read the Blade and see new housing developments being built in the Perrysburg and AW districts. There are threads here asking abut Maumee's fate now that their enrollment is dropping. Therefore, here is a thought...why not merge the TRAC and NLL?

*** Two divisions...all schools would play their division opponents, have a protected rival in the other division that they would play every year and one other school in the other division on a rotating basis.


Big Division

Perrysburg (571)
Whitmer (802)
AW (496)
Findlay (617)
Northview (473)
Fremont (428)`

Small

Maumee (272)
BG (314)
Napoleon (247)
Southview (411)
Springfield (407)
Clay (414)

Other thoughts...

1. Sorry Catholics...I know you will be miffed, but it is not personal.
2. Lima...you are a bit too far
3. We are obviously football fans. But from an all-sport standpoint, this league would make baseball and softball scheduling easy as each school would play everyone in their division twice and everyone from the other division once. Nice league wrestling meet too.
4. I ran this by a local AD and he said that he liked it from a scheduling standpoint for ALL sports.

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 02-26-17, 08:48 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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The NLL is the kingpin.

All movement must start there and then the domino effect will take hold. I also cannot imagine a league without the Big 3.

With that said I like the format. 5 league games with 1 or 2 crossovers as the natural rivalries are there (Clay/Whitmer, Perrysburg/Maumee, Southview/Northview...etc). Even with growth Perrysburg and AW still do not want to add Whitmer, Findlay, and Ross.

I like adding the TCL to the mix and KEEP Lima Sr. and Big 3. Make three divisions and rotate them every 2 years based on need (if there is need).

Lastly, combine Southview and Northview making them close to Mentor in size and have Downing and Mayzes cage match it for who will be HC.
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  #3  
Old 02-26-17, 09:16 PM
dappling dappling is offline
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Two things:

1. Many NLL people are scared of "Ross." Ross is no where near where they used to be in the 70's and 80's. Also, one needs to look at all sports. If Ross was in the NLL this year, I don't think that they would have won the league in any sport.

2. With the growth in Sylvania and the new schools being built all over Ohio, was there ever any thought in combining Southview and Northview? From an economic standpoint, bigger schools make more economic sense. Look at TPS. They screwed the pooch simply rebuilding existing schools. TPS could have easily gotten by with 4 high schools and a dedicated Penta County-type vocational school.
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  #4  
Old 02-26-17, 09:30 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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There is no advantage to the NLL in making any change.

Napoleon and Maumee have both looked elsewhere, but have nowhere to go. If either or both ever leave Oregon Clay and Fremont Ross would beg to be admitted.

The NLL will remain an eight team league far into the future.
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  #5  
Old 02-26-17, 10:35 PM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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From my Findlay point of view I would like to see this but I don't believe the NLL schools have any interest in this. If Maumee and/or Napoleon leave Clay and Ross will jump from the TRAC in a heart beat and the remaining TRAC schools will be left with little or no options to fill the open spots.

I believe the TRAC would like to go to 10 schools now to build a cushion if teams leave but are unable to find any schools interesting in joining. I would be surprised if the TRAC is around in 10 years. With the way all 5 catholic schools losing enrollment in a dramatic pace they maybe looking to play smaller schools. Plus it is a terrible fit for Lima but they just have no other options at this point unless the WBL would let them in.
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  #6  
Old 02-27-17, 07:26 AM
TRAC Football TRAC Football is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Track Fan View Post
From my Findlay point of view I would like to see this but I don't believe the NLL schools have any interest in this. If Maumee and/or Napoleon leave Clay and Ross will jump from the TRAC in a heart beat and the remaining TRAC schools will be left with little or no options to fill the open spots.

I believe the TRAC would like to go to 10 schools now to build a cushion if teams leave but are unable to find any schools interesting in joining. I would be surprised if the TRAC is around in 10 years. With the way all 5 catholic schools losing enrollment in a dramatic pace they maybe looking to play smaller schools. Plus it is a terrible fit for Lima but they just have no other options at this point unless the WBL would let them in.
Wait until the voucher system kicks in, enrollment will be back up.
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  #7  
Old 02-27-17, 09:36 AM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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About 15 years ago this exact scenario was talked about by the ADs. Do to competitive balance the private schools were not going to be invited.

As for the merger ever happening it won't. The TRAC will eventually lose at least Clay to the NLL. The TRAC will then be stuck begging for someone to join the league. No one is even on par with the TRAC size wise until you reach the Suburbs of the major cities or you try to add Bedford and other Michigan squads.
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  #8  
Old 02-27-17, 10:02 AM
FremontKeith FremontKeith is offline
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Lima Senior has been a loyal member of the TRAC and was a loyal member of the GBC before that. Too dismiss them because of distance is simply wrong. Also, I don't think you'll ever see a TRAC-NLL merger. I would think there is a better chance of a TRAC-CL merger.
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  #9  
Old 02-27-17, 11:18 AM
cchs1983 cchs1983 is offline
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Wouldn't PBurg and Clay switching leagues solve a lot of problems? Not that Pburg would ever do it....
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  #10  
Old 02-27-17, 12:47 PM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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No. Because Perrysburg wouldn't be able to compete year in and year out with the TRAC. Eventually it's trading Clay for Clay
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  #11  
Old 02-27-17, 01:40 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FremontKeith View Post
Lima Senior has been a loyal member of the TRAC and was a loyal member of the GBC before that. Too dismiss them because of distance is simply wrong. Also, I don't think you'll ever see a TRAC-NLL merger. I would think there is a better chance of a TRAC-CL merger.
I agree more with this.

I've said it on here and other sites for years that the NLL is content and to be honest I cannot blame them. The have a league that is 8 teams which is ideal and the demographics are very similar amongst schools.

If I am Perrysburg why would I leave for the TRAC?

The one glaring problem with the TCL merging with anyone is that administratively they are a dumpster fire. But I would like to see it happen. If it were up to me I'd like to see a lot like what the OCC of Columbus does. Combine the NLL/TRAC/TCL and have three divisions and re-evaluate those divisions every two years based on enrollment, talent, younger level success, etc...

Still not going to happen because the NLL has NO reason to change. As I said earlier, they are the kingpin.
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  #12  
Old 02-27-17, 05:32 PM
Trailsendcustom Trailsendcustom is offline
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News came out today that Gibsonburg and Danbury are leaving the TAAC. This strangely could be the first in a series of dominos that could change some things in the bigger leagues.

It's possible that more lower tier schools of the NWOAL or an NBC school may leave to join the TAAC opening spots for Napoleon and Maumee to move. This would open up spots for Clay/Ross in the NLL.

Maybe the NBC and TAAC merge into a two tier possibly adding Maumee.

Maybe none of that will happen and the TAAC will fold and join the TCL with Lima CC.

I just don't see any teams lining up to join the TRAC.

Anything can happen and it will be interesting in the next few years to see what happens.
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  #13  
Old 02-27-17, 07:23 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailsendcustom View Post
News came out today that Gibsonburg and Danbury are leaving the TAAC.

It's possible that more lower tier schools of the NWOAL or an NBC school may leave to join the TAAC
I assume Gibby and Danbury are going to the SBC? That league still needs four more schools that have football, and I don't know who they might be.

The only NBC school that might even think about the TAAC would be Woodmore, but only because of their size. But why would they? I think they would be more likely to go to the SBC anyway. This is all strictly conjecture on my part.
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  #14  
Old 02-27-17, 09:02 PM
Jackets Jackets is offline
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The whole city of Toledo is in a tough position when it comes to conference realignments. The NLL is clearly the conference in the best position because the school sizes are relatively similar and long distance travel isn't much of an issue. The TRAC however is a conference that was sort of thrown together out of necessity, as they would constantly run into scheduling problems if the schools remained in the city league. With TPS's issues likely not being solved in the near future, I think the TRAC and the NLL are the ones that need to adapt in traveling longer distances for games. Toledo, being in the "middle of nowhere" for OHSAA standards needs to make an effort to branch out to places an hour (maybe even more) away. Here is my suggestion: Make a much larger conference (I would say about 24 teams) with the tier the schools are placed in based on performance.

For Football, I would use the computer points system as the basis for placing teams in four tiers of six teams. This would create a five week "division" schedule. This would allow teams that have rivals in different tiers to schedule games in the first half of the season and also opens game scheduling against teams in the city league if they so choose any time before their conference play opens up. The tiers that each team is placed in could be changed every two years by adding the total amount of computer points each team accumulated over the two year span.

For these tiers, I just used last year's computer points for tiers rather than over the course of many years since I didn't feel like doing math all night, so please don't complain about how they are currently tiered. I know that Perrysburg doesn't belong in the third tier. I just used last years computer points just to give an example. Also I just put in 24 teams that seemed like a good size from the general area that I could see teams joining this hypothetical conference.

Tier 1:
Central Catholic
Springfield
Whitmer
Sandusky
Ottawa Glandorf
Clyde

Tier 2:
Anthony Wayne
Bowling Green
Findlay
St. John's Jesuit
Lima Senior
Norwalk

Tier 3:
Perrysburg
Sandusky Perkins
Napoleon
Elida
Northview
Maumee

Tier 4:
Fremont Ross
Southview
Clay
St. Francis de Sales
Defiance
Tiffin Columbian
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  #15  
Old 02-28-17, 05:52 AM
NLLBEST NLLBEST is offline
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Perrysburg out, clay in. If Napoleon ever leaves (imo more likely than Maumee being accepted anywhere else) the NLL adds Ross...it can be that simple. I know Perrysburg will refuse to leave because who wants to actually compete with schools their own size? It's laughable to me that they would try and argue against it.
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  #16  
Old 02-28-17, 01:13 PM
BigK72 BigK72 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackets View Post
The whole city of Toledo is in a tough position when it comes to conference realignments. The NLL is clearly the conference in the best position because the school sizes are relatively similar and long distance travel isn't much of an issue. The TRAC however is a conference that was sort of thrown together out of necessity, as they would constantly run into scheduling problems if the schools remained in the city league. With TPS's issues likely not being solved in the near future, I think the TRAC and the NLL are the ones that need to adapt in traveling longer distances for games. Toledo, being in the "middle of nowhere" for OHSAA standards needs to make an effort to branch out to places an hour (maybe even more) away. Here is my suggestion: Make a much larger conference (I would say about 24 teams) with the tier the schools are placed in based on performance.

For Football, I would use the computer points system as the basis for placing teams in four tiers of six teams. This would create a five week "division" schedule. This would allow teams that have rivals in different tiers to schedule games in the first half of the season and also opens game scheduling against teams in the city league if they so choose any time before their conference play opens up. The tiers that each team is placed in could be changed every two years by adding the total amount of computer points each team accumulated over the two year span.

For these tiers, I just used last year's computer points for tiers rather than over the course of many years since I didn't feel like doing math all night, so please don't complain about how they are currently tiered. I know that Perrysburg doesn't belong in the third tier. I just used last years computer points just to give an example. Also I just put in 24 teams that seemed like a good size from the general area that I could see teams joining this hypothetical conference.

Tier 1:
Central Catholic
Springfield
Whitmer
Sandusky
Ottawa Glandorf
Clyde

Tier 2:
Anthony Wayne
Bowling Green
Findlay
St. John's Jesuit
Lima Senior
Norwalk

Tier 3:
Perrysburg
Sandusky Perkins
Napoleon
Elida
Northview
Maumee

Tier 4:
Fremont Ross
Southview
Clay
St. Francis de Sales
Defiance
Tiffin Columbian
You have 3 WBL Schools in your plan. Why would these 3 schools want to leave the WBL?
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  #17  
Old 02-28-17, 03:28 PM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigK72 View Post
You have 3 WBL Schools in your plan. Why would these 3 schools want to leave the WBL?
Exactly. The only WBL school I could see leaving would be Kenton and that would be to play smaller schools more to the south/east. Even that is extremely unlikely. The WBL is a lot like the NLL that all the schools are a good fit and seem to like their league.
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  #18  
Old 02-28-17, 04:42 PM
scbuckeye99 scbuckeye99 is offline
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WBL schools ain't leaving what they got anytime soon. League has been stable for decades now with the same schools and they ain't budging.

Defiance would be in much better position travel wise with the NLL but they're still not leaving the WBL anytime soon.
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  #19  
Old 02-28-17, 04:52 PM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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With Gibsonburg and Danbury going to the SBC look for some gates to open and the TRAC to become a 6 school league or fold.
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  #20  
Old 02-28-17, 05:24 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haydenfrye View Post
With Gibsonburg and Danbury going to the SBC look for some gates to open and the TRAC to become a 6 school league or fold.
You figure some TRAC schools are going to the TAAC?
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  #21  
Old 02-28-17, 06:00 PM
jafo jafo is offline
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The TRAC won't fold if it goes down to 6 teams. Where else are those schools going to go? It's really just a scheduling alliance now, schools will need to schedule a few more OOC games. Not a big deal for most.
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  #22  
Old 02-28-17, 07:02 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jafo View Post
It's really just a scheduling alliance now, ...
Isn't that what leagues do?
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  #23  
Old 02-28-17, 07:37 PM
dappling dappling is offline
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I have seen projections that in 5 years, Perrysburg could have over 2000 students. If that does in fact transpire, why should Maumee and Napoleon be shown the door Maybe P-Burg should go?

Here is a modified thought from my original idea, what about keeping the NLL as it is and adding Clay and Fremont Ross? Once again from an ALL sport perspective, this seems like it would make scheduling a lot easier? Two divisions in football with rotating crossover games:

NLL North

Northview
Southview
Springfield
Maumee
Anthony Wayne

NLL South

Clay
Perrysburg
Bowling Green
Napoleon
Fremont Ross

I was told by a former Maumee AD that this was actually proposed at one time.
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  #24  
Old 02-28-17, 07:53 PM
jafo jafo is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Isn't that what leagues do?
True, and I suppose that in most leagues only a few teams have a chance at a league championship in any sport year after year after year. I do think that four of the schools would rather be somewhere else and two of them may someday get the chance to leave. The other two will stick around as long as they remain in no man's land.
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  #25  
Old 02-28-17, 08:30 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Might need to consider the effects of TWO PBurg schools. It's happening in a lot of the main city burbs, why not here?
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  #26  
Old 02-28-17, 08:36 PM
haydenfrye haydenfrye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
You figure some TRAC schools are going to the TAAC?
No. Dominos usually fall starting this way. When the TRAC was formed it started when St Wendelin left the MAL, then Lakota left the SLL for the MAL, followed by Rossford to the NBC with Fostoria. Which in turn allowed Napoleon to go to the the NLL and Sandusky to the NOL. This killing the GBC. Remaining GBC schools wanted a league and the Privates plus Clay and Whitmer were getting tired of the dealings with the TCL. Hence the beginning of the TRAC.

My suggestion is this. Woodmore and Elmwood end up in the TAAC. Opening two spots up in the NBC, one of which becomes Maumee and perhaps Napoleon or BG believe it or not it could be possible but more likely to see Napoleon. When that happens expect Ross or Findlay to join Clay as the 8th team in the NLL. The NLL will not expand past 8. The private schools will not be asked to join because of the fact all NLL coaches have witnessed the recruiting done by the private schools. Then expect the privates and Whitmer to be looking for a league, rejoining the TCL or just going independent. Lima most likely will pray that an opening comes in the WBL which it won't leaving their last option to be the GWOC. If Findlay isn't one of the replacements in the NLL expect them to possibly follow Lima Sr.
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  #27  
Old 02-28-17, 10:07 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haydenfrye View Post
No. Dominos usually fall starting this way. When the TRAC was formed it started when St Wendelin left the MAL, then Lakota left the SLL for the MAL, followed by Rossford to the NBC with Fostoria.
Nothing St. Wendlein or Lakota did had anything to do with Rossford or Fostoria being part of the new NBC, or the formation of the TRAC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by haydenfrye View Post
Which in turn allowed Napoleon to go to the the NLL and Sandusky to the NOL.
Nothing Rossford or Fostoria did "allowed" Sandusky to do anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haydenfrye View Post
My suggestion is this. Woodmore and Elmwood end up in the TAAC.
I think both are more likely to go to the SBC, but that is complete conjecture on my part. It's just the the TAAC is such a crappy league with greater travel distances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haydenfrye View Post
Opening two spots up in the NBC, one of which becomes Maumee and perhaps Napoleon or BG believe it or not it could be possible but more likely to see Napoleon.
I really don't see any of these schools going to the NBC. They are awfully big compared to the others. There is no talk at BG of leaving the NLL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haydenfrye View Post
When that happens expect Ross or Findlay to join Clay as the 8th team in the NLL.
If three schools leave the NLL, which they won't, then OK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haydenfrye View Post
The NLL will not expand past 8. The private schools will not be asked to join because of the fact all NLL coaches have witnessed the recruiting done by the private schools. Then expect the privates and Whitmer to be looking for a league, rejoining the TCL or just going independent.
They will never rejoin the TCL and there is no advantage in the four of them going independent.

Last edited by chs1971; 03-01-17 at 05:17 AM.
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  #28  
Old 02-28-17, 11:16 PM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Might need to consider the effects of TWO PBurg schools. It's happening in a lot of the main city burbs, why not here?
Does PBurg allow open enrollment? If so they may need to shut that down if they get bigger than there buildings can handle.
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  #29  
Old 03-01-17, 01:01 AM
Jackets Jackets is offline
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Perrysburg is not an open enrollment school

Perrysburg also currently has no plans of making two high schools. If they split into two that would only be about 750 kids in each school, which for football would be like a D4?

Perrysburg high school was built with the assumption that they would need to expand at some point. They had all the wiring and air conditioning set up to easily connect to a new wing of the school in case of expansion
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  #30  
Old 03-01-17, 05:13 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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perrysburg also currently has no plans of making two high schools. If they split into two that would only be about 750 kids in each school, which for football would be like a d4?
d3.
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