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  #61  
Old 02-22-17, 08:43 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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Those kids the following season deserve a fair chance to compete at the correct level - not to play up boys and see how you do. Do those Seniors deserve that after working hard for three years to have their final season comprised. That is not fair. Teams are different year to year.
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  #62  
Old 02-22-17, 09:32 PM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
That was the point of the original argument. Teams should aspire to play in the highest division. Moving a team up one division should be looked at as a reward. Keep winning and you can play in the highest division.

The argument that it is punishing a champion the following year doesn't really make much sense to me. If it was a once in a lifetime team, they weren't going to be competing for the state title in Division II, Division III or Division IV, so what's the difference if they lose in the playoffs in a larger division?

The difference between divisions is very little in some districts. By moving up a division, it's not much of a "punishment."
For the returning players, yes it may be an opportunity. My experience has been at the smallest schools the Champions generally are senior heavy. It then becomes more of a punishment to have to compete up for the next team who may have few if any returning members of the champion team.

I would be fully supportive of an open division where the best of every size compete for a title. For some real fun, make it double elimination, so you could potentially have a best of three series at the end. FRIDAY, SATURDAY, SUNDAY,! I must be off.
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  #63  
Old 02-22-17, 10:55 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
Those kids the following season deserve a fair chance to compete at the correct level - not to play up boys and see how you do. Do those Seniors deserve that after working hard for three years to have their final season comprised. That is not fair. Teams are different year to year.
Personally I don't believe in basketball there is a "correct level". Enrollment numbers have very little correlation to the top teams in each division.

I feel that the champion of each level should have virtually no chance at competing with the top team of the next level up. Of course in Ohio, that is not the case in most sports. Because of the ability to self-select to a quality team, every division has teams that can compete at the highest level nearly every year.

It's time to get rid of enrollment as the only determinant of divisions. Past results should matter.
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  #64  
Old 02-23-17, 02:16 PM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
Personally I don't believe in basketball there is a "correct level". Enrollment numbers have very little correlation to the top teams in each division.

I feel that the champion of each level should have virtually no chance at competing with the top team of the next level up. Of course in Ohio, that is not the case in most sports. Because of the ability to self-select to a quality team, every division has teams that can compete at the highest level nearly every year.

It's time to get rid of enrollment as the only determinant of divisions. Past results should matter.
Agree 100%. I still think strength of schedule needs to be part of the equation. For example, the last stretch of games my Irish will play in the regular season will be Hoban, Walsh, VASJ, Jackson, Hoover and McKinley. And they are going to play Field in the first round of the playoffs!?! The problem with going by strength of schedule is that it could create A, B, C, D-type playoff tiers where all the best teams would be in Group 1, all the good teams would be in Group 2, and the so-so teams would be in Group 3, and everyone else would be in Group 4. And the only one that would "matter" would be Group 1.
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  #65  
Old 02-23-17, 02:31 PM
IVCguy IVCguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmajic View Post
IVCGuy made many great points. Playing better competition is only going to make you that much better IF you have the talent to get that much better. It isn't going to make you better in the long run either if you still don't have the talent.

In '08 Malvern HS (Div IV) had their best team ever. They had 3 players that just don't come around that often at a tiny school like theirs. 25-0 ranked 2nd in the state, and beat a very good Columbiana team by 40 in the regional semis, but in doing so lost their young point guard (an essential part but not one of the top three at the time). Then, they had to play Bedford Chanel who had previously played DII and kept dropping. They still had talent rolling in each year but with their enrollment they dropped to DIV in '08. So, a school that had a legit chance at their first ever appearance didn't make it as they lost a close one to Chanel. Worthington Christian took care of Chanel at the state tournament but the school with their best ever couldn't make it because of the talent/speed/size advantage and bad luck. The size advantage was negligible though. Bad luck for the Hornets because Chanel dropped a division that year (they no longer even have a school). That year New Knoxville won it as they had a terrific run of talent at their small school.
That Malvern team was just ridiculous. I was at the Chanel game. Trevor Halter (I think) had a dunk that almost made me jump out of my skin. But yeah, while there wasn't a big size deficit (Halter was 6-7 and Kapron was 6-6) there was definitely an athletic difference. Losing the PG was just a piece of bad luck. To compete with Chanel in a fair fight, Malvern would have needed to pluck one of the best players each from, say, Canton South, East Canton, Sandy Valley, Tusky Valley, and Carrollton. Even then I'm not sure they could have fully matched up. My impression was that Malvern was not playing what I considered a typical DIV team, but something considerably above that.

That's not a criticism of Chanel. You go play wherever the OHSAA tells you to play, and you try to beat the brown out of everyone you play. If you shouldn't be playing in that division, that's on the OHSAA, not Chanel.

Hiland in 2010 thru 2012 is the only team I thought was more loaded for a rural/small community school than that Malvern team. Maybe that New Knoxville team you referenced.

And Hiland in those years is why I believe the quality of a player transferring in is more important than the quantity. Hiland was already loaded with all kids who were born and raised there. They had 6-4 guard Dylan Kauffman, 6-8 guard/forward Noah Boyd, 6-7 post Neil Gingerich, and some really, really good players like PG Jason Miller and G Jalen Miller - and I'm leaving a bunch out. It was ridiculous as it was.

Then 6-7 Seger Bonifant moves in from Strasburg. The howls were loud, conspiracy theories were hatched, and many accusations were thrown on the wall. The rich had gotten much richer. The truth is, based on what I know directly, Seger wasn't happy with the commitment to basketball where he was, wanted to play with his friend Dylan, and wanted to go to state. His parent's situation made it easy for him to move into the district, so he did it.

Seger was a tough minded kid, very smart, made other players better, worked hard, had all the skills needed to play, and while he wasn't the greatest athlete ever, he knew how to use his body to his advantage. Most of all, he wanted the ball in pressure situations because he had total confidence that he would make the shot.

Putting him on that team took Hiland from a strong DIV state contender without him, to a prohibitive favorite with him - and they were able to cash that in for two state championships. In the 2011 state championship game vs. Harvest Prep it was tied at the end of 3 qtrs. and Hiland went to Seger about 10 times in a row, and ended up winning by about 20. In the 2012 regional finals he hit a game winning 3 at the buzzer to beat Richmond Hts, otherwise they wouldn't have even made it to Columbus.

How many state titles would they have won without him? Somewhere between none or two, but my gut tells me less than two for sure. But the point is that we are talking about one, uno, a single transfer that affected the competitive balance in the entire state in DIV.

That's what causes competitive balance problems: the quality of player(s) transferring AND the quality of the team they are transferring to. All this other stuff like private/public, urban/rural, recruiting/homegrown, etc. may have some relevance to the problem, but they are not at the heart of it.
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  #66  
Old 02-23-17, 03:40 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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OK, so here is my idea:
  • Largest 72 schools to D1, just like football.
  • After that, use Harbin type system to identify an additional 56 schools.
  • That would make 128 total in D1.
  • Selection would take place February 15th.
  • Put the teams in 4 regions to minimize travel.
  • Seed 1-32 in each region.
  • Top team in bracket is home team first three rounds.
  • Play all games on the same nights at the same time (ie Tuesdays/Fridays)
  • Lower division games cannot be played on the same dates. (ie D1 only on those dates)
  • Games start first Friday in March.
  • The Championship weekend would be Thursday/Saturday schedule for D1.

For the lower divisions, you would keep division 2-4 as they are. Seed them like you normally would. Any team that is moved up to D1 would then become a bye for their opponent.

Give the D1 tournament a special name. Making this tournament should be prestigious and celebrated by teams selected (ala NCAA tournament).

I suspect you would probably see this breakdown of teams being selected based on current divisions:

~40 - Current Division 1 teams that are not in the top 72 sized schools.
~10 - Current Division 2
~4 - Current Division 3
~2 - Current Division 4
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  #67  
Old 02-23-17, 06:04 PM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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^^^^^^^^
This would be GREAT for D-1, and there would be some great basketball games! The winner would really have to earn it. BUT, it certainly would make Divisions 2-4 look like a JV tourney.
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  #68  
Old 02-23-17, 06:18 PM
IVCguy IVCguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
OK, so here is my idea:
  • Largest 72 schools to D1, just like football.
  • After that, use Harbin type system to identify an additional 56 schools.
  • That would make 128 total in D1.
  • Selection would take place February 15th.
  • Put the teams in 4 regions to minimize travel.
  • Seed 1-32 in each region.
  • Top team in bracket is home team first three rounds.
  • Play all games on the same nights at the same time (ie Tuesdays/Fridays)
  • Lower division games cannot be played on the same dates. (ie D1 only on those dates)
  • Games start first Friday in March.
  • The Championship weekend would be Thursday/Saturday schedule for D1.

For the lower divisions, you would keep division 2-4 as they are. Seed them like you normally would. Any team that is moved up to D1 would then become a bye for their opponent.

Give the D1 tournament a special name. Making this tournament should be prestigious and celebrated by teams selected (ala NCAA tournament).

I suspect you would probably see this breakdown of teams being selected based on current divisions:

~40 - Current Division 1 teams that are not in the top 72 sized schools.
~10 - Current Division 2
~4 - Current Division 3
~2 - Current Division 4
I had to look up "Harbin system". Looks like what we do in football.

I still think you would have a problem in the lower divisions, but what you suggest would create one heckuva DI tournament.

I would actually like a modified version of the football playoffs for basketball. I don't see why every 0-22 or 1-21 team in the state needs to play a tournament game. You would qualify x number of teams per district and their points would seed them like football.

To address competitive balance teams would have to be slotted in a particular division based on points correlating to what schedule they played and how they performed against that schedule - which creates the chaos of some teams not being able to be slotted until their schedule is fully played - which is probably why it wouldn't work. But if there was a way to make it work, that might be a way to get most people happy.

But then, off the top of my head, you might create the problem of programs "scheduling down" to try to stay down in a lower division. Still, your league sets your schedule to a large degree and then OOC opponents are done years ahead - hard to engineer that.

There might not be a real good answer to competitive balance in that every solution may just create a different set of problems, so I'm open to letting it be since its possible that letting it be is the least disruptive course. Also, while there is harm done by a competitive imbalance, it's athletic harm, not academic, physical, or permanent psychological harm. IOW, I don't think any kid's life is going to be hindered because he didn't win a state championship because he had to play against VASJ. Mostly the harm is a bunch of parents and fans are mad. At the same time, if there is a way to have kids compete on a level playing field without it creating new problems, inequities, and chaos, then let's do it.
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  #69  
Old 02-23-17, 07:26 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
Personally I don't believe in basketball there is a "correct level". Enrollment numbers have very little correlation to the top teams in each division.

I feel that the champion of each level should have virtually no chance at competing with the top team of the next level up. Of course in Ohio, that is not the case in most sports. Because of the ability to self-select to a quality team, every division has teams that can compete at the highest level nearly every year.

It's time to get rid of enrollment as the only determinant of divisions. Past results should matter.
I agree and if nothing else, fans should want this because it would add to the prestige of higher division titles and create much more interesting postseason tournaments.
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  #70  
Old 02-24-17, 05:48 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
OK, so here is my idea:
  • Largest 72 schools to D1, just like football.
  • After that, use Harbin type system to identify an additional 56 schools.
  • That would make 128 total in D1.
  • Selection would take place February 15th.
  • Put the teams in 4 regions to minimize travel.
  • Seed 1-32 in each region.
  • Top team in bracket is home team first three rounds.
  • Play all games on the same nights at the same time (ie Tuesdays/Fridays)
  • Lower division games cannot be played on the same dates. (ie D1 only on those dates)
  • Games start first Friday in March.
  • The Championship weekend would be Thursday/Saturday schedule for D1.

For the lower divisions, you would keep division 2-4 as they are. Seed them like you normally would. Any team that is moved up to D1 would then become a bye for their opponent.

Give the D1 tournament a special name. Making this tournament should be prestigious and celebrated by teams selected (ala NCAA tournament).

I suspect you would probably see this breakdown of teams being selected based on current divisions:

~40 - Current Division 1 teams that are not in the top 72 sized schools.
~10 - Current Division 2
~4 - Current Division 3
~2 - Current Division 4
No reason to reinvent the wheel. Pennsylvania already has a pretty good system that is way better than Ohio, and I'm sure there are plenty of other states across the country with similar ones. Go look at what other states are doing and try to emulate them if its better.
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  #71  
Old 02-24-17, 06:47 PM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
No reason to reinvent the wheel. Pennsylvania already has a pretty good system that is way better than Ohio, and I'm sure there are plenty of other states across the country with similar ones. Go look at what other states are doing and try to emulate them if its better.
I'm located on the western side of the state so not real easy to go check Pennsylvania out.

I do however believe what is being suggested is not reinventing the wheel as it is pretty much the same scenario of what unfolds every weekend in the large AAU tournaments.

Pool play determines your teams relative strength and then you are placed in the "appropriate" division for tournament play. Every division has a champion but only the top tier is really given much weight. Bronze champion is a nice title and signifies some accomplishment, but lacks that public acceptance of success.

Who a team schedules in the regular season may be analogous to the pool with which one is assigned in AAU.
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  #72  
Old 02-24-17, 07:31 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D4fan View Post
I'm located on the western side of the state so not real easy to go check Pennsylvania out.

I do however believe what is being suggested is not reinventing the wheel as it is pretty much the same scenario of what unfolds every weekend in the large AAU tournaments.

Pool play determines your teams relative strength and then you are placed in the "appropriate" division for tournament play. Every division has a champion but only the top tier is really given much weight. Bronze champion is a nice title and signifies some accomplishment, but lacks that public acceptance of success.

Who a team schedules in the regular season may be analogous to the pool with which one is assigned in AAU.
PA has a website for their athletics just like Ohio and I'm sure every other state. You can see how they are set up. Without getting into complete detail, not everyone makes the playoffs, teams are Harbin like ranked, and and with how the state tournament is seeded you could potentially have two teams in the championship from the same area. So in PA's setup it's theoretically possible to see Lakota West play Lakota East for the state championship. In other words, the best teams regardless of region can be matched up. Making for better games through the the entire playoffs, but definitely in the state championships.

The biggest negative for their setup is travel. You could have a school on the east side of the state having to play 4 hours away in the western side of the state's bracket due to their seed coming out of their region (PA actually has I believe 12 districts instead of regions ando the amount of teams that come from each district is based on size). That travel increases school's costs and makes for potentially less turnout at games. But like I said, you get the actual best teams moving deep into the tournament.
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  #73  
Old 02-24-17, 07:39 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Here's a random thought I just had. If every team didn't make the playoffs do you think you could potentially cut down on the constant yearly player transfers that seem to keep increasing? If your team is crappy to start the year due to your beat players having to sit out because of transferring, your team could be sitting come playoff time if you can't turn it around in time.
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  #74  
Old 02-28-17, 09:29 AM
Bo Kimble Bo Kimble is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmajic View Post
IVCGuy made many great points. Playing better competition is only going to make you that much better IF you have the talent to get that much better. It isn't going to make you better in the long run either if you still don't have the talent.

In '08 Malvern HS (Div IV) had their best team ever. They had 3 players that just don't come around that often at a tiny school like theirs. 25-0 ranked 2nd in the state, and beat a very good Columbiana team by 40 in the regional semis, but in doing so lost their young point guard (an essential part but not one of the top three at the time). Then, they had to play Bedford Chanel who had previously played DII and kept dropping. They still had talent rolling in each year but with their enrollment they dropped to DIV in '08. So, a school that had a legit chance at their first ever appearance didn't make it as they lost a close one to Chanel. Worthington Christian took care of Chanel at the state tournament but the school with their best ever couldn't make it because of the talent/speed/size advantage and bad luck. The size advantage was negligible though. Bad luck for the Hornets because Chanel dropped a division that year (they no longer even have a school). That year New Knoxville won it as they had a terrific run of talent at their small school.
That's the thing that always blows my mind as it goes with CBP, "Our best school ever" as if that guarantees a deep tournament run or anything of that sort. The margin for error is razor thin to be one of the elite and win a state title, and in the situation you talked about a significant injury to the primary ballhandler certainly doesn't help. I would also imagine the statement of "declining enrollment but same basketball talent" isn't entirely true either, typically those schools dropped a division or 2 remain good but are not as good as their historic teams. I don't really have an opinion one way or another, but to simply lump every school that isn't this "wholesome" idea together is laughable.
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  #75  
Old 02-28-17, 09:56 AM
Bo Kimble Bo Kimble is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IVCguy View Post

The truth is, based on what I know directly, Seger wasn't happy with the commitment to basketball where he was, wanted to play with his friend Dylan, and wanted to go to state. His parent's situation made it easy for him to move into the district, so he did it.
Why does this scenario (and plug whatever name you want in) so often: A- get identified as a bad thing (he wants to play with a friend and wants to play for a title, both seem pretty good)? B not sound the alarms at the school people are leaving to double down on their commitment (if a kid is a serious athlete, wouldn't he/she want to go where athletics are taken seriously)? C serve as a cause for punishment for having an attractive program?

I know that now as an older guy, HS sports aren't life and death, but we've all been there when that was the most important thing we had going for us. As long as kids aren't being coerced by adults, I'm fine with whatever they pick.

I just read schools accepting a transfer should be kept out of the playoffs, c'mon that's not the answer either.
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  #76  
Old 02-28-17, 10:27 AM
tmajic tmajic is offline
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Not sure what you were trying to imply Bo Kimble. I too have been around a long time. The schools that are in the lower divisions have nowhere to go. What is laugable is that the private schools can drop 2 or 3 divisions. As was mentioned much earlier, some schools just have that basketball reputation and kids want to go there. I get that, but as was the case in '08 with Chanel, they did still have the quality of talent because of their reputation, and now that they dropped to the lowest level it just didn't seem right. No one said it was a given that your school's best team ever would get to the state tournament. You have to play who is next on the bracket. Malvern gave no excuses, they simply didn't like the situation, which is why the OHSAA is trying to correct it in general.
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  #77  
Old 03-02-17, 10:46 AM
Youknow Youknow is offline
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Agree

I agree completely with most of this. Especially the Farm team vs city teams aspect. Down here in cincy we had the same situation this year. 2 "cincy farm" teams i guess you could say had 18 win seasons playing essentially nobody. But all the "farm teams" got together and voted them way up there. Well those 2 teams both got smashed in the first round of the sectional to teams seeded lower than them where a city team thats ranked 11th because they had a "city" schedule and went 500 has a much harder road through the tourney.
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  #78  
Old 03-02-17, 12:10 PM
Bo Kimble Bo Kimble is offline
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There are any number of reasons why the urban/suburban teams public or private flourish more quickly than rural. Sure access to additional bodies is probably the easiest to identify, but it's probably more than that. The opportunity to compete against other teams that are similar to them then probably a few that are better than them. That type of self-awareness helps as tournament time gets close. Also, having been tested (whether the game is won or lost) helps as the margins get tight. I've seen many of these teams that you are referencing and very few were 1-5 studs and none were 1-12 or 15 studs, therefore not invincible. Quality teams that it'd take a lot to beat, but isn't that what a state champ is supposed to look like?
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  #79  
Old 03-02-17, 02:09 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by D4fan View Post
I'm located on the western side of the state so not real easy to go check Pennsylvania out.

I do however believe what is being suggested is not reinventing the wheel as it is pretty much the same scenario of what unfolds every weekend in the large AAU tournaments.

Pool play determines your teams relative strength and then you are placed in the "appropriate" division for tournament play. Every division has a champion but only the top tier is really given much weight. Bronze champion is a nice title and signifies some accomplishment, but lacks that public acceptance of success.

Who a team schedules in the regular season may be analogous to the pool with which one is assigned in AAU.
http://www.piaad1.org/sports/winter-...ower-rankings/

Found this. Each district makes their own rules in regards to how to do their playoffs, so this is how district 1 (greater Philly area) does theirs. I also found that the rule for district playoff qualification for district 1 is .500 or better overall or league record. So if you have a losing record your season is over after your last regular season game. Also district 1 I believe gets the most teams (10) to qualify for the state playoffs out of the 11 districts in the highest division. So they have extra games in their tournament to decide all 1 through 10 seeds.
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  #80  
Old 03-02-17, 05:22 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Youknow View Post
I agree completely with most of this. Especially the Farm team vs city teams aspect. Down here in cincy we had the same situation this year. 2 "cincy farm" teams i guess you could say had 18 win seasons playing essentially nobody. But all the "farm teams" got together and voted them way up there. Well those 2 teams both got smashed in the first round of the sectional to teams seeded lower than them where a city team thats ranked 11th because they had a "city" schedule and went 500 has a much harder road through the tourney.
You think those "farm teams" lost primarily because they didn't play a competitive schedule? Or because they weren't as talented?
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  #81  
Old 03-02-17, 05:39 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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Both. Playing a competitive schedule allows you to measure yourself and adjust your style of play so you can be as competitive as possible against more talented teams. Style of play is a great equalizer when executed properly. Playing a tougher schedule will not make your team taller or faster, but it will expose your strength and weakness. In many cases these so called farm teams are getting their first exposure of a urban team in the playoffs and are nowhere near prepared. I do however feel that if you play a tough schedule year after year you develope a program and players that know how to play against those teams. It's not a coincidence that many of the top teams are also the teams that play the most competitive schedule. BENNIES01 do you feel the Bengals tough schedule this year and the past few years have them poised for a deep playoff run - I do. Team like Benny, Joe's, SVSM and many others use the in season experience to condition the kids so they are ready for anything that is thrown at them come playoff time.
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  #82  
Old 03-02-17, 08:22 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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When talking about two talented teams, one who has played a tough schedule and one who has not, of course the team playing the tough schedule has the advantage. But schedule strength makes little difference when two teams match up and there is a talent gap. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

I also think that instead of year after year of tough schedules, some metropolitan private schools can easily just find a quick fix through bringing in a coach who can bring in top talent. I won't mention any names of schools, but some Cleveland area privates have used that formula to turn things around while playing essentially that same tough schedule in recent years as they have in the past.
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  #83  
Old 03-02-17, 08:26 PM
FootsWalker FootsWalker is offline
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Originally Posted by Bennies'01 View Post
When talking about two talented teams, one who has played a tough schedule and one who has not, of course the team playing the tough schedule has the advantage. But schedule strength makes little difference when two teams match up and there is a talent gap. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
Agree. A lot easier to play that tough schedule when you have better players year in and year out than 98% of the teams in your respective (non-D1) division..........
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  #84  
Old 03-03-17, 01:54 AM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
http://www.piaad1.org/sports/winter-...ower-rankings/

Found this. Each district makes their own rules in regards to how to do their playoffs, so this is how district 1 (greater Philly area) does theirs. I also found that the rule for district playoff qualification for district 1 is .500 or better overall or league record. So if you have a losing record your season is over after your last regular season game. Also district 1 I believe gets the most teams (10) to qualify for the state playoffs out of the 11 districts in the highest division. So they have extra games in their tournament to decide all 1 through 10 seeds.
Thanks. That is interesting especially the bonus points for scheduling and then defeating a quality team.
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  #85  
Old 03-10-17, 04:26 PM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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I was looking through the OHSAA brackets and it struck me that in its regular season, STVM played 13 teams that have reached the state district finals; plus two excellent teams from Evanston and Detroit, plus some top caliber teams that got knocked out of the playoffs earlier. As an independent, STVM is in a unique position to put together that type of schedule. But it is one of the big factors that attracts players to that program. But it also underlines some of the inequities in the tournament setup. Much of it has to do with demographics and how spread out the D2 teams in NEO seem to be. There is really no team in the District (and really only 1 or 2 in the Region) that have a legitimate shot at the Irish. But then again, the same could be said for Trotwood. Actually, the Irish may be the only D2 team in the state capable of beating Trotwood, and they beat us by 38 earlier in the year! So how are these inequities resolved? With the CBP going into effect, it looks like the D2 schools in NEO will be spread out even further than they are now. It'll be interesting to see who will be left standing in D2 in NEO next year. If VASJ moves up, watch out!
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Old 03-10-17, 10:13 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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To back up what I said before about playing tough teams. The North Coast League has JFK, VASJ, STA and CCC still alive - and that is just the White Division.
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  #87  
Old 03-10-17, 10:50 PM
cvctrackfan cvctrackfan is offline
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Wait until the North Coast League expansion news come out....
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  #88  
Old 03-10-17, 10:58 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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The word is Gilmour is joining. That is all I have heard so far.
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  #89  
Old 03-11-17, 12:11 AM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
The word is Gilmour is joining. That is all I have heard so far.
I've read that (on the football forum) SVSM is actually joining, too. Mooney and Ursuline declined offers.

Ursuline is still alive in the tournament as well.
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  #90  
Old 03-11-17, 11:35 AM
IVCguy IVCguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Bo Kimble View Post
Why does this scenario (and plug whatever name you want in) so often: A- get identified as a bad thing (he wants to play with a friend and wants to play for a title, both seem pretty good)? B not sound the alarms at the school people are leaving to double down on their commitment (if a kid is a serious athlete, wouldn't he/she want to go where athletics are taken seriously)? C serve as a cause for punishment for having an attractive program?

I know that now as an older guy, HS sports aren't life and death, but we've all been there when that was the most important thing we had going for us. As long as kids aren't being coerced by adults, I'm fine with whatever they pick.

I just read schools accepting a transfer should be kept out of the playoffs, c'mon that's not the answer either.
I don't think it is a bad thing. This is the USA - land of the free. If you want your kid to go to school over there, then take him over there - and I don't really care what your reasons are.

Part of the problem I had with the OHSAA rules on transfers was they created a situation where people had to hide athletically motivated transfers by fitting them into the loopholes. The most common was to move into the district - but you had people renting apartments, getting their mail there, and living there Monday-Friday, but spending their weekends at their home in the other district. The OHSAA would look at these situations and make a judgment about the legitimacy of the transfer based on whether they believed the applicants. It was basically a mind-reading exercise - and all of that really bothered me because it was subjective and designed to be a little sleazy. To boot, you had kids from intact homes who were seeking transfer at a significant disadvantage compared to kids from broken homes due to the fact that divorced/separated parents can maintain two households - so it made the move in much easier to make kosher.

I'd rather everything be open and transparent. If you have a 6'10" athletic kid who wants to go to City HS because he can get great coaching, win a state title, and play with some of his AAU friends, then you should be able to transfer him without restriction. The OHSAA was trying to regulate the wrong thing IMO. They were focused on the reasons for the transfer when they should have been focused on regulating recruiting.

But you can even get out of regulating any of it, IF teams are slotted for division assignment based on their TALENT (if significantly affected by transfers), not their enrollment. Then it doesn't matter who transfers where or who is recruiting. VASJ gets 5 of the best AAU players in Cle to enroll, they get put into D1, and all is well. But competitive imbalance is caused when they are playing with that talent level in the lower divisions.

But yeah, whoever suggested the "transfers = no post-season" idea isn't quite hinged. Some people will look at a problem and think the solution is more regulation, but often, the simplest thing is to address the problem with more freedom.
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