Milesplit Rankings for Indoor State - Yappi Sports

southernman · #1 02-13-17, 06:33 PM

Anyone see errors or missing marks and times on rankings?

Finishtiming · #2 02-15-17, 12:04 AM

Wait until Feb 28th and everyone will start telling you who is missing. Like this every year. I will get over 50 emails the week of the state meet telling me I am missing people in the rankings and I do not have anything to do with it anymore.

PCTigerTrackCoach · #3 02-16-17, 03:13 PM

There's also a lot of times posted that are not legit... Finish Timing should be in charge of ALL HIGH SCHOOL timing! We don't get the errors or crazy times that the kid NEVER runs again with Finish Timing

runningrocks · #4 02-16-17, 08:43 PM

Yeah like Dustin Horters 4:15!

Rundad · #5 02-18-17, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by runningrocks

Yeah like Dustin Horters 4:15!

What do you mean by Horter's 4:15 not being legit?

CoventryTrackXCguy · #6 02-18-17, 10:06 PM

Question. Will a 6'1 get somebody to indoor states in high jump? Would be nice.

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lane4 · #7 02-18-17, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCTigerTrackCoach

There's also a lot of times posted that are not legit...

In the rankings? I dont believe that's possible, considering all the performances in the rankings are drawn directly from meet results.

Finishtiming · #8 02-20-17, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCTigerTrackCoach

There's also a lot of times posted that are not legit... Finish Timing should be in charge of ALL HIGH SCHOOL timing! We don't get the errors or crazy times that the kid NEVER runs again with Finish Timing

Wait until next year when we have nothing to do with it. Rumor is that state meet is going to Spire.

gatornation · #9 02-20-17, 03:45 PM

No Rumor, TRUTH

PCTigerTrackCoach · #10 02-20-17, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finishtiming

Wait until next year when we have nothing to do with it. Rumor is that state meet is going to Spire.

I'm ok with it being at Spire, I just want Finish Timing to be running the meets!

PCTigerTrackCoach · #11 02-20-17, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lane4

In the rankings? I dont believe that's possible, considering all the performances in the rankings are drawn directly from meet results.

Absolutely there are times that are not legit in the rankings... Because there are malfunctions with these lower end timing companies equipment... I could post a lot of times that are NOT legit and they are times the kid has NEVER run prior to the time or after, even with top notch competition... It only gives the kid a false sense of hope and gives false info to a recruiter... I have yet to EVER see this happen when Finish Timing is running a meet, they are efficient, accurate and they run a solid meet... I was at Kent State last night until almost 8pm because there were a lot of scratches yet the timing company couldn't reseed and run full heats of events.... 50 heats of the 200 and 40 heats of the 400 and a lot of the heats there were 2 and 3 people in them,,, RIDICULOUS. If Finish Timing was running that meet, I'd have been home by 6not 10....

lane4 · #12 02-20-17, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCTigerTrackCoach

Absolutely there are times that are not legit in the rankings... Because there are malfunctions with these lower end timing companies equipment... .

I wouldnt call Deltatiming a "low-end" timing company, and I suspect neither would Finishtiming. Also colleges that do things in-house - like Cedarville and Capital to name a couple - do A-1 jobs as well.

And with all due respect, I watch the results closely and have no reason to suspect any of the respective meets to have used faulty timing, or submitted made-up performances. I'd be interested to hear about what meets you feel are questionable.

KevinL · #13 02-20-17, 10:15 PM

I have a girls 4x8 with not 1 but 2 invalid times.

Earlier in the year at Oberlin we were lapped. Our 4th girl was confused (usually a 4x4 girl outdoors). She saw the leaders take a handoff and thought it looked like the thing to do. Our 3rd girl was tired enough that she didn't argue. We ran a lap (200) short.

Yesterday at Kent, again we were lapped, this time we did run the correct race but our time is about a minute short. At 80 seconds per 400, a minute is about a lap. I'm sure Kent took our photo with a lap to go as others were finishing.

We are listed among the top 25 times. We will not be attending the state meet.

lane4 · #14 02-20-17, 10:21 PM

Kevin thats not a faulty timing company issue, thats a faulty finish line official issue. And either way I dont think that type of thing is what PC coach was referring to.

KevinL · #15 02-21-17, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lane4

Kevin thats not a faulty timing company issue, thats a faulty finish line official issue. And either way I dont think that type of thing is what PC coach was referring to.

At Oberlin when we actually ran short, it was clearly an official's mistake.

At Kent when we continued, no official tried to stop us, and the timing company timed our photo with a lap to go, I would call it a timing company issue.

I don't know what PC is referring to specifically, but I do know for a fact that there are invalid times (or at least 1) in the top 25.

psycho_dad · #16 02-21-17, 03:11 AM

KevinL; So, when your time and place was listed on the scoreboard and then when the final results were posted and you noticed the error and then went and told an official or the timing table, they refused to correct it?! That is unacceptable. I know the people on the timing crew and I'll look into why they did not correct the mistake even after you brought it to their attention.

psycho_dad · #17 02-21-17, 05:16 AM

PCTiger;

So, you are holding the timing company accountable for DNS's?

Not sure what the entry process was for the Kent meet, but I do know in the past they would limit entries and seed on the fly and there would still be DNS's 10 minutes after declarations were made. Seems like they did not limit entries or if they did, it was a very high cut off. I know I have been involved with talks on whether they should reseed heats or just let the entries go as entered. Only allowing top 6 heats use blocks and then after that no blocks. Over ten years I've listened to the people at Kent and other places try to come up with ways to better run meets and be more inclusive and more efficient and some ideas work and some don't. Nearly 100% of the time it's coaches and athletes that are the problem.

Maybe, at this point of the season when kids are really making a push to qualify for the state indoor meet, there should not be teams entered in the 4x800 that are so slow that they are getting lapped. But then again, if you only allow the better kids to participate, you cut out 90% of the kids.

Participation is up and no shows is a big problem. Limit, don't limit. Everyone is trying to figure out the best way.

ENA2 · #18 02-21-17, 09:24 AM

Kevin L and PCTigers,
Please contact OhioMileSplit with the non legit marks. Those 19th through 25th marks may not declare due to some better marks.
Any coach who will have a kid go to the State Meet who is not legit has questionable integrity IMO.
I know of one of our team marks that was established with a kid who is not at our school.... it is not in the top 35, but I still want it off the list.

southernman · #19 02-21-17, 09:52 AM

Some athletes compete unattached and the results state unattached

Somehow on rankings they list the athletes and schools anyhow

CoventryTrackXCguy · #20 02-21-17, 10:47 AM

Not all schools that have atheletes participate in indoor meets are able to have them participate at the state meet. We had a high jumper qualify a couple years ago, but because indoor track was not a sanctioned sport, he could not participate. Indoor track has finally been sanctioned for us this year, so we can send qualifiers to state meet. But just throwing it out there that not everyone who may be on the ohiomilesplit rankings can actually compete at states.

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lane4 · #21 02-21-17, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENA2

Any coach who will have a kid go to the State Meet who is not legit has questionable integrity IMO.

Aside from the situation Kevin described - a distance kid or relay that gets lapped and mistakenly finishes early - I dont see any way a kid gets onto the performance list with an illegitimate mark. PC noted he thinks there are kids high on the list due to "malfunctioning equipment", and said he could post a lot of times that are not legit. While I dont think its necessary to post the individual kids names here I'd be interested to know what meets he's referring to.

ENA2 · #22 02-21-17, 01:59 PM

These instance are NOT the timing company's fault, but
1. I know of a few times that a kid that is not from a school runs in a relay with 3 kids from a that school and they have a qualifying mark....or maybe a assistant coach or a former athlete competes.... ie. using a ringer.
2. I know of some instances where a kid may run in anohter kids place due to a kid not showing up.... the school is already charged the entry fee, so the the school paid for the spot. Note: this has happened to our school and if the kids did not tell me, a kid with a top mark, competed the next week under another kid's name and really qualified twice, that was a few years ago and I let the powers that be know before the final marks were out.
3. we also had a kid compete under the school name, who failed half of his classes but still qualified and expected to competed. I would not declare him and his folks were upset, but wonder if ohter coaches would do this. BTW he was not eligable for outdoor track.

Now I'm not saying that this happens a lot, but do know that it has happened, and the timing company would never know.

psycho_dad · #23 02-21-17, 02:46 PM

I have seen in a distance race where a kid is #6 and puts it on upside down and then the kid with the legit #9 figures he/she is the one that is wrong and turns theirs upside down so that they are messed up in the standings. Also have seen where they run out of numbers and use a one and a zero for the number 10. The Zero falls off and that kid is now number 1. The real number 1 is a DNS but it's reported that 10 is the DNS and they get messed up.

In the sprints, I've seen more than once where hip numbers were either not used or fell off and kids finished in the wrong lane and were initially assigned the wrong place and time.

Both distance and sprints I've seen where kids just run in the wrong heat/race.

I've accidentally caught all those situations as a spectator. Most were caught by my son that has some unreal memory thing going on and catches everything. How many times was it not caught? I don't go to that many HS indoor meets now that my own children do no participate and we only went to 2 or 3 a season when they did. Run 20 heats of any race and something is going to get messed up.

PCTigerTrackCoach · #24 02-21-17, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lane4

I wouldnt call Deltatiming a "low-end" timing company, and I suspect neither would Finishtiming. Also colleges that do things in-house - like Cedarville and Capital to name a couple - do A-1 jobs as well.

And with all due respect, I watch the results closely and have no reason to suspect any of the respective meets to have used faulty timing, or submitted made-up performances. I'd be interested to hear about what meets you feel are questionable.

You're right, Delta isn't a low end timing company but running over 50 heats in 1 race with only 2 and 3 athletes in heats is pretty ridiculous. I'll post some times without posting the athlete's name and you tell me what you think. I don't think Deltatiming was the company in these particular instances I just prefer how Finishtiming run their meets

PCTigerTrackCoach · #25 02-21-17, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycho_dad

PCTiger;

So, you are holding the timing company accountable for DNS's?

Not sure what the entry process was for the Kent meet, but I do know in the past they would limit entries and seed on the fly and there would still be DNS's 10 minutes after declarations were made. Seems like they did not limit entries or if they did, it was a very high cut off. I know I have been involved with talks on whether they should reseed heats or just let the entries go as entered. Only allowing top 6 heats use blocks and then after that no blocks. Over ten years I've listened to the people at Kent and other places try to come up with ways to better run meets and be more inclusive and more efficient and some ideas work and some don't. Nearly 100% of the time it's coaches and athletes that are the problem.

Maybe, at this point of the season when kids are really making a push to qualify for the state indoor meet, there should not be teams entered in the 4x800 that are so slow that they are getting lapped. But then again, if you only allow the better kids to participate, you cut out 90% of the kids.

Participation is up and no shows is a big problem. Limit, don't limit. Everyone is trying to figure out the best way.

Not referring to the DNS. But I know alot of the DNS athletes did not check into their events yet were still included in certain heats. I'm all for allowing any kid to run, I enjoy watching kids progress even if they aren't my athletes so the amount of kids doesn't bother me, I just am absolutely sure had Finishtiming been running that meet, I'd have been home 3 hours earlier. No way there should be 1,2 or 3 kids in a heat together when there are over 50 heats combined in 1 race.... I'd love to know what the solution is, but I think I have it figured out lol.... Finish Timing

CC Track Fan · #26 02-21-17, 03:49 PM

Here is a big screw up that happen at a district meet a few years ago. There was two kids from a school that got lapped running together. Freshman then stopped after 7 laps and they gave him 6th place. Apparently they thought since the two from the school were running together the entire race that the sophomore kid (he ran all 8 laps) from the school must have finished 5th. The kid that actual finished 5th had the same 1st name of the sophomore was placed near the back where the lapped runner finished.

The coach of the two runners went to the officials and informed them of the errors and they insisted they were correct and kept them 5th and 6th. I guess at least they didn't put them in top 4 and take away a kids chance to run at regional but still unbelievable that could happen at such a big meet.

CincyIllinifan · #27 02-21-17, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by runningrocks

Yeah like Dustin Horters 4:15!

Why is this not legit? I believe he ran a 4:16 indoor and a 4:14 outdoor last year.

PCTigerTrackCoach · #28 02-21-17, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CincyIllinifan

Why is this not legit? I believe he ran a 4:16 indoor and a 4:14 outdoor last year.

Dustin is LEGIT!

PCTigerTrackCoach · #29 02-21-17, 07:03 PM

8.49
8.45
8.31
8.39
8.59
8.44
These are 60MH times from this season..... This athlete had a personal best that is 2-3 tenths better than any mark he's ever run, as did every runner in the race at that time

7.72
7.67
7.71
7.85
7.78
7.92
This athletes P.R. is also 2 tenths faster than what you see here, and has never run as fast since, also every girl in the race PR'D by 2 tenths or more... She has raced every girl in the top 6 and has yet to beat any of them even being blown out a couple times yet has one of the fastest times in the state... But at the same meet where everyone in this particular race, ran their fastest ever by 2 tenths... I did not include either athletes best times because I didn't want to single them out, just giving a little proof as to their times being out of whack so to speak....

7.74
7.86
7.86
7.84
7.93
7.65
7.74
7.92
7.93
7.89
7.86
7.79
7.88
7.86
7.81
This runner is ranked ALL TIME in Ohio in the 60M dash... Her PR is under 7.56 yet she's never been close to it in 3 years since running the time she was said to run, and again, every girl in her race at that time ran a personal best..

7.00
7.00
7.04
7.12
7.14
7.11
7.14
7.22
7.20
7.25
7.12
7.07
6.91
This kid is also listed as 1 of the fastest ever in Ohio, he only ran under 7.00 in the 60 twice, ironically it was when he was running at a meet where his Summer Coach was doing the timing for the meet... He's in college now and has still not run under 7.00 but he will be on an ALL TIME list because of fraudulent marks... Again, I'm a huge track fan, I enjoy watching kids kill it on the track, every chance I get, I watch kids like Abby Steiner, Andrew Jordan, India Johnson, Dustin Horter, Hunter Moore, Natalie Price, Zion Cross etc... I'm the first to congratulate anyone who breaks a record or runs the fastest time etc, but I think these marks should be for the kids who earn them and not due to a faulty race... I don't think it's an issue that goes on beyond a race or two, but when it goes on, it needs to be reported

lane4 · #30 02-21-17, 07:20 PM

It's risky business to decide which races are "legit", and which aren't, or must have had "malfunctioning timing", based on how close a kid runs to their PR before or after setting it. They are, by their very definition, outlier performances. I know a lot of performances at Spire a few weeks ago were eye-popping, including a sprint time that broke a state record by almost a full second, but I never for a second suspected any of them to be illegitimate because of that fact.

edit to clarify I'm talking about indoor performances only. Obviously outdoors there are many variables(wind, hand-timing, etc) that can make a performance, especially sprints, questionable.