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  #121  
Old 02-07-17, 04:57 PM
Summa Summa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stark Born & Bred View Post
Then appeals will be filed because your numbers/the ODE numbers are from the 2015-2016 school year.

Successful is definitely a subjective term. Do I think that a consolidated school will suddenly balloon to 500 students? No and I have never said that. I have said before that I think that Aquinas closing even as soon as this year would only add to Central enrollment number by maybe 45-55 students. Aquinas has 115 frosh through juniors and I would estimate that we would get 30%, 40% tops. The others would go to publics or the Akron privates, maybe even Lake Christian. I assume we would get some from the middle school. Likely again, 30-40% of the 30 or students. So that is how I arrive at 45-55 students.

I see the main benefit as allowing the community to focus on one catholic secondary institution going forward, be it yours or ours, for both families looking for options and funders wanting to make sure they are not throwing money down a hole. I'm not sure that works but I am positive what we have is not working so I'm willing to try something new. I think it could be stable and give parents the vision of a stable school which, given the climate since 2000 in this county, would be success by some definition.

I like, no love, your ideas, I just think it is too late to put forth and fund and implement a dynamic plan that results in 2 schools sustaining themselves or a new high school being built.
You are not trying anything "new." Consolidating Catholic Schools has been tried and has failed left and right when a new building or bold strategic plan with large sums of money are not part of the consolidation. Combining schools does not stabilize schools or stop declining enrollment. It just continues unabated. It is simply a bad old idea in and of itself. If it does happen, like I said, I will be on here reporting on its failure, because anyone with any foresight can see a merged school at the Central campus is doomed to fail in its stated goal. The school will very shortly be down to fewer than 300 students, which is what Central alone will be down to within the next two years. If that is success in your mind, have at it.

Last edited by Summa; 02-07-17 at 05:47 PM.
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  #122  
Old 02-07-17, 05:21 PM
Summa Summa is offline
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Originally Posted by Stark Born & Bred View Post
You always have a "friend" -- at the Diocese, on the board -- must be nice. He might want to read his board reports a little closer
I'll let him know that all is fine and dandy with Central's finances, no need to worry, I saw it on Yappi. That will be a big relief to him. Sorry Stark, I am not blowing smoke here. The situation at Central is not good from either a financial or enrollment standpoint.

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Originally Posted by Stark Born & Bred View Post
Plenty of examples of declining enrollment and closures among independently controlled and order-run schools in the last 10-15 years. This is a nationwide trend and I think scapegoating the DOY for the entire issue is an oversimplification of a complex issue.
Much less so. Independent Catholic Schools do much better than schools controlled by dioceses. Denial of that is denial of all the evidence out there.

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Originally Posted by Stark Born & Bred View Post
I am not sure it would work; I am just not on board with the idea we could raise the money for a new building. So, left with the option of trying a single school or not trying a single school, I side with trying it.
It will still be a sinking ship. The enrollment decline will continue at the same rate. Bigger donors will not in the least bit be any more attracted to throwing their money at that than the two schools. But they would be much more interested in a new school in a good location. 10 million in capital improvements at Central? I have been through the school and any improvements made are not all that noticeable. The cost to truly bring that massive old high school into the modern era would costs more than building a new school. The asbestos remediation alone would be cost prohibitive. Aquinas would be much easier and much more cost effective to renovate and would easily hold all the current Central students. Central would still be operating at about 30-35% capacity even if every Aquinas student went to a merged school at Central, which I think we both agree would not happen. The new school at the current Central campus would be lucky to get 25% of Aquinas' kids. So actually, I believe you are wrong here. A new school building that is in a better location would not only increase enrollment and donations it would save more money in the long run. How much longer do you think Central's building is viable without major renovations and demolition?

Generate excitement and build a new school now that won't need any major work for a long time or go with an aging massive building that is far too expensive to modernize and maintain. That is a guaranteed disaster in the near future for catholic high school education in Stark County.

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Originally Posted by Stark Born & Bred View Post
Do you think that it would be necessary to buy Eastgate? I would think there would be plenty of room at the existing campus (though a second gym and some retrofitting would likely be required). I agree that an upper school/lower school reorganization could be worth a try. . . I think we discussed that on here years ago when they announced the elementary schools closings.
Yes, parents want more separation between high schoolers and elementary students. Eastgate could be purchased relatively cheaply and would work.

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Originally Posted by Stark Born & Bred View Post
Yours, of course. Actually, I would have to study the current and (projected) future demographics to have a completely informed opinion. It is my assumption that if a consultant had to pick (and this study exists, although it is a few years stale now) between the lesser of two evils, Central would stay open due to its more proximate location to the current demand "centers" for Catholic education and its ability to more easily service Tusc County if and when TCC closes. Just a guess.
West Tusc is a horrible location for a countywide catholic school. The entire Tusc corridor is an area in major decline. Additionally, it is an awful road to drive on unless you enjoy sitting at stoplights or behind people turning left. Central is not "centrally" located and would lose out on a considerable number of potential catholic students in other parts of the county that a combined school would need for any long term success.

Last edited by Summa; 02-07-17 at 09:20 PM.
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  #123  
Old 02-07-17, 07:13 PM
Bluestreakoffice Bluestreakoffice is offline
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You guys have some great info on Central and St Thomas...I only asked to see what league talk was happening that I hadn't heard or was updated to what I had heard. The question for us here, is Louisville going to join the league? Based on what I have heard they are going that direction...the new enrollment numbers at 309 could make a new discussion...and then maybe not.
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  #124  
Old 02-07-17, 07:53 PM
Lynus24 Lynus24 is offline
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Had to double check....thought I stumbled onto a different thread.
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  #125  
Old 02-07-17, 08:48 PM
Bluestreakoffice Bluestreakoffice is offline
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Originally Posted by Lynus24 View Post
Had to double check....thought I stumbled onto a different thread.
What is your take on Louisville and the Fed? The response on the new enrollment numbers that I saw was "interesting"
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  #126  
Old 02-07-17, 09:26 PM
Lynus24 Lynus24 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bluestreakoffice View Post
What is your take on Louisville and the Fed? The response on the new enrollment numbers that I saw was "interesting"
Fed will call us tomorrow and we'll deny at this time.

The "meeting" should have never been published in the the paper. Too many people around here want to jump the gun or can't see the forest for the trees at the same time. I see no need to rush into anything right now. Too many dynamics could change over the next 6 months and things have already changed since the other 7 left the NBC. I wouldn't be surprised to see at least 2 of the defectors change their mind and could be the missing link to a new league.

There are too many day dreamers around here...and too many people want to make policy. Louisville is becoming synonymous for putting the cart before the horse of late.
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  #127  
Old 02-07-17, 09:36 PM
Bluestreakoffice Bluestreakoffice is offline
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Originally Posted by Lynus24 View Post
Fed will call us tomorrow and we'll deny at this time.

The "meeting" should have never been published in the the paper. Too many people around here want to jump the gun or can't see the forest for the trees at the same time. I see no need to rush into anything right now. Too many dynamics could change over the next 6 months and things have already changed since the other 7 left the NBC. I wouldn't be surprised to see at least 2 of the defectors change their mind and could be the missing link to a new league.

There are too many day dreamers around here...and too many people want to make policy. Louisville is becoming synonymous for putting the cart before the horse of late.
You always have an educated take on all things Louisville. Why do you say the Fed will say no.....now it only takes 2 league schools to say no...I believe GlenOak will say no....not sure of the others.

The two defectors you talk....are you saying they will join New Philly, Dover, Louisville and Wooster?
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  #128  
Old 02-07-17, 10:17 PM
Lynus24 Lynus24 is offline
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The Fed will call us and we'll deny. I believe they would take us.

Rumor is Alliance is already having second thoughts according to some friends I have over there. Problem is now everybody is 2 more years out on actually getting something going. Alliance and Marlington by all rights should have stuck with Louisville from the beginning. I understand the others wanting to leave. But if those 2 could have realized that a new league with Dover and Philly and maybe CCC was or would have been a possibility at the time....I really believe they would have thought differently. As it stands we're working on a 2 year independent schedule and their having second thoughts.

We still have the same 3 realistic options we started with 1) Independent 2) Fed 3) New local start up league
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  #129  
Old 02-07-17, 11:14 PM
Bluestreakoffice Bluestreakoffice is offline
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Originally Posted by Lynus24 View Post
The Fed will call us and we'll deny. I believe they would take us.

Rumor is Alliance is already having second thoughts according to some friends I have over there. Problem is now everybody is 2 more years out on actually getting something going. Alliance and Marlington by all rights should have stuck with Louisville from the beginning. I understand the others wanting to leave. But if those 2 could have realized that a new league with Dover and Philly and maybe CCC was or would have been a possibility at the time....I really believe they would have thought differently. As it stands we're working on a 2 year independent schedule and their having second thoughts.

We still have the same 3 realistic options we started with 1) Independent 2) Fed 3) New local start up league
Duh....I missed the apostrophe and then read the word wrong...lol
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  #130  
Old 02-08-17, 12:45 AM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I'd prefer Louisville not to join. Strictly for selfish scheduling reasons. Jackson just renewed a long-dormant rivalry with Central for at least 4 years. Boardman has been on the schedule for the past 20 years. I don't think Jackson should eliminate either of those games. If you add Louisville, that leaves just one spot left on the schedule. There's just not enough room for variety there. With two spots, you can throw in a cake game and grab a Solon or someone to play up. I'd also rather not lock a D3 team that splits Fed L2 points into the schedule when Jackson is already playing only 3 D1s (which might be just 2 if Hoover drops down) and is locked into 4 D2s and a D5. Not good for the team at all. Jackson was much better when they played up in the 80s/90s/00s. I think they have the talent again to play up and should go that route. Playing a bunch of teams at parity gets you 5-5.

I'm sure Louisville-Jackson games would be entertaining to watch, but the overall negatives outweigh the positives for the Bears, I think. Inviting Louisville would work for Hoover (since they play them anyway) and the D2 schools, but the benefits aren't there for Jackson, GlenOak (if they are saying no), and McKinley.
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  #131  
Old 02-08-17, 08:36 AM
Bandit22 Bandit22 is offline
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I think - my opinion - that the fed and Lville are in the same boat. They both really don't want to say yes, however they kinda would be foolish not to say yes.

Lville doesn't want to be stuck traveling the great state of Ohio in weeks 6-10 vs teams with no rivalry or connection to them in games not everyone will want to drive to, yet they are kinda small and the last couple enrollment reports PROVE (much to the dismay of the other NBC schools) that even Lville is seeing a decrease in enrollment.

The fed would love to have a school that is right here in Stark Co. that has numerous programs to compete with and they are a competitive athletic program top to bottom - however the fed people can read the numbers and adding Lville would mean that in a couple years if a new league with a more comparable enrollment structure would invite them that they(Lville) would probably go.

Should I stay or should I go?

I know you have a couple guys in LVILLE that played in the 90's that are definitely against moving into the FED so maybe their loud whining will cause the admin to slow down a bit.
Bob and Jon will be not be sat in a corner!!!! LOL - for those of you who know

I do find it interesting that maybe just maybe Marlington and Alliance admin/BOE/Supers are taking a look at the fast one the smaller schools in the NBC were trying to pull. Why would these two larger schools now want to move away from the school they are larger than and border to play south range? are you kidding me?

I wouldn't be surprised if there are second thoughts. And if the rumors are true that Dover and Philly would be interested in something then the number becomes 6, if you get 6 then you have a league that fills weeks 6-10

dover, philly, lville, marlington, alliance......hey CCC want to join? and there it is. Now schools like wooster or maybe a canton south would be given pause for thought on where they want to play
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  #132  
Old 02-08-17, 08:50 AM
Bluestreakoffice Bluestreakoffice is offline
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I think old habits are hard to break. I would love to see Lake have an opportunity to be relevant to accomplishing a league championship in football. The last time Lake won the title was 98....20 years. The schedule is so difficult in the league because of the excellent coaching staffs and the fact that Lake's second string and depth is not what it used to be....now back to old habits...I don't see why something like the Ohio Capital Conference setup ( smaller version) would not work for the Stark County teams.... it really has never been attempted. You could include other counties but if everybody is in the same overall setup you can do realignment when needed do to school enrollments changes. McKinley and GlenOak would be difficult but the question is this... why does Lake really have to be the one to adjust all the time to the bigger schools.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_Capital_Conference
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  #133  
Old 02-08-17, 09:09 AM
Bandit22 Bandit22 is offline
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well bluestreakoffice

there comes that old convo walking down the line again.....two tiers LOL
most of the people I talk to and that I read on here don't like them, neither do I. However in this situation....adding a tier in the fed with the likes of Lville Alliance Marlington Dover and Philly with a bump down for Lake and you have 6 and 6

I doubt Lake would leave the Fed but who is to say they don't pick a phone up and call some schools or have a meeting with the 5 mentioned, heck they could pick up CCC and have 7 and the fed could pick up Massillon and it would be 7 and 7 and the two leagues or tiers or divisions could play one crossover
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  #134  
Old 02-08-17, 09:17 AM
Bluestreakoffice Bluestreakoffice is offline
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Originally Posted by Bandit22 View Post
well bluestreakoffice

there comes that old convo walking down the line again.....two tiers LOL
most of the people I talk to and that I read on here don't like them, neither do I. However in this situation....adding a tier in the fed with the likes of Lville Alliance Marlington Dover and Philly with a bump down for Lake and you have 6 and 6

I doubt Lake would leave the Fed but who is to say they don't pick a phone up and call some schools or have a meeting with the 5 mentioned, heck they could pick up CCC and have 7 and the fed could pick up Massillon and it would be 7 and 7 and the two leagues or tiers or divisions could play one crossover

I know about the two tiers...but lets take a look at the two tier from the past...1988 and 1989. Last attempted 28 years ago...28 years ago!...Heck at that time you could not even complain or praise on this forum. Newspapers Wednesday edition was over 150 pages! Lake boys enrollment in 1991 was 519, now is 436. Old habits die hard. Things have changed.
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  #135  
Old 02-08-17, 09:29 AM
Bandit22 Bandit22 is offline
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Blue - I agree - times have changed as has motivations of schools

and the schools and how they are made up have changed
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  #136  
Old 02-08-17, 09:31 AM
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Eagle_62 Eagle_62 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluestreakoffice View Post
You always have an educated take on all things Louisville. Why do you say the Fed will say no.....now it only takes 2 league schools to say no...I believe GlenOak will say no....not sure of the others.

The two defectors you talk....are you saying they will join New Philly, Dover, Louisville and Wooster?
I think GlenOak would be thrilled to have Louisville in the FED,they would rather go 15 min. down the road to play an old rival rather than going 5 hours to Cincy or playing an Akron city team. I was told by an Eagle coach that GlenOak reached out to Louisville before but they declined.
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  #137  
Old 02-08-17, 09:32 AM
Journey Journey is offline
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I know about the two tiers...but lets take a look at the two tier from the past...1988 and 1989. Last attempted 28 years ago...28 years ago
and it failed and reverted back because of Louisville, lol.
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  #138  
Old 02-08-17, 09:39 AM
Bluestreakoffice Bluestreakoffice is offline
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and it failed and reverted back because of Louisville, lol.
28 years ago! 28 years ago you did not include the other county schools...every school's enrollment has dropped and one school has closed in the past 28 years. Things have changed.
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  #139  
Old 02-08-17, 09:41 AM
Summa Summa is offline
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Originally Posted by Bluestreakoffice View Post
You guys have some great info on Central and St Thomas...I only asked to see what league talk was happening that I hadn't heard or was updated to what I had heard. The question for us here, is Louisville going to join the league? Based on what I have heard they are going that direction...the new enrollment numbers at 309 could make a new discussion...and then maybe not.
Is that male enrollment number correct? Other than football where I think Louisville will be able to hold its own but won't go 8-2 to 10-0 every season, the school would likely struggle in most other sports. The argument that Louisville is D1 in all other sports may no longer apply either. If the divisional cutoffs stay the same (which I doubt they will since the student age demographic is in major decline in Ohio) Louisville will drop down to D2 in every other sport other than possibly Track. Even if the divisional cutoffs go down as I expect and with competitive balance being added, Louisville will likely drop out of D1 in at least several sports.

Then you have the other argument that other than football, everyone makes the playoffs or postseason in every other sport so it really doesn't matter if Louisville takes its lumps in the Fed, they will still be in the postseason in D2 for other sports.

Being an independent is rough for scheduling, especially in football. There are fewer independents than ever in Ohio and filling a schedule can be very challenging for an AD as an independent. Louisville's football schedule as an independent may actually be tougher than being in the Fed. Likely teams Louisville would have to consider playing in football would include, Mooney, Ursuline, St. V, Steubenville, DeSales, Hartley and Massillon. Obviously, I don't think playing St. Ed or Ignatius would even be a consideration, but they are always looking for games. The other potential games would be mostly bad inner city schools who will bring very little in the way of computer points and therefore hurt Louisville's playoff chances.

Tough call, but I think the Fed may actually be the best bet at this point.
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  #140  
Old 02-08-17, 09:49 AM
Bluestreakoffice Bluestreakoffice is offline
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Summa...yes that 309 number is correct if Louisville does not contest it by Feb 24th.
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  #141  
Old 02-08-17, 10:00 AM
Bandit22 Bandit22 is offline
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where are the Alliance and Marlington posters? would love to hear their opinions on playing in the proposed new league that seems to be growing east and with smaller schools or if they would be more interested in seeing their schools move with Louisville?????
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  #142  
Old 02-08-17, 10:09 AM
y2h y2h is offline
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two words which strike fear into the very heart of Louisville: Federal League.
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  #143  
Old 02-08-17, 11:47 AM
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Why would a university in Kentucky want to play in some NEO high school league anyway?
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  #144  
Old 02-08-17, 12:10 PM
Bandit22 Bandit22 is offline
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yes y2h hoover vikings strikes fear into the hearts of massillon fans the same way
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  #145  
Old 02-08-17, 12:58 PM
Mr. General Mr. General is offline
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I only know of one word that strikes fear into the hearts of Massillon fans...
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  #146  
Old 02-08-17, 02:36 PM
Journey Journey is offline
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Playoffs?
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  #147  
Old 02-08-17, 03:48 PM
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End of story, for now. http://www.cantonrep.com/sports/2017...federal-league
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  #148  
Old 02-08-17, 03:58 PM
McK93 McK93 is offline
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Please can we join?


No, we don't need you.


Fine I didn't want to be a part of it anyhow.



Close, no?
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  #149  
Old 02-08-17, 04:09 PM
Bandit22 Bandit22 is offline
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well from reading both the articles and more importantly this thread, lol, it appears not all are on board in Lville. The right thing to do is to rescind the interest until you have your ducks in a row so to speak. Like I said earlier there exists a faction that does not want to join the fed.

Could the powers to be at Marlington and Alliance have made a call to Lville? Could there be talks about possibly doing something different then the snow job that was going on in the NBC?

Who knows a guy? has the inside scoop? Is Dover and Philly really interested? Could the move and the article in the paper prompt action by others?

tune in tomorrow same bat time, same bat channel!!!!!

Obviously the former NBC has one team in their backyard pining to join, ahem Crestview.
certainly they would find a willing 8th. I could name a couple but let them deal with that on a different thread. Where does the Leps go from here
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  #150  
Old 02-08-17, 04:10 PM
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Eaton thought it was great a couple of days ago. Now the Federal League "isn't looking to expand."

I wonder who said no?
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