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  #91  
Old 02-06-17, 10:08 PM
Flood Flood is offline
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Originally Posted by The Butler View Post
Mostly the 2 tiered system.
+1

Will never be tried again.
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  #92  
Old 02-06-17, 10:24 PM
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+1

Will never be tried again.
I'm just glad someone got the humor and truth in that.
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  #93  
Old 02-07-17, 01:26 AM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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I know from first-hand experience that Wooster has put feelers out there that they would be interested in a return to the Federal League under the right circumstances. In Wooster's first year in the Federal in 1989, there were two tiers, and they won their only FLC that year. After that, they went through about 10 years of serious lack of talent on the gridiron. With Orrville wanting no part of the 100+ year rivalry anymore, Wooster would still be able to schedule Ashland in a non-conference game. Regardless, I don't see the Federal ever returning to a two-tier system. If they did though, Wooster would be interested.
I didn't realize Orrville-Wooster was done. Another rivalry biting the dust. Just like with the NBC situation, I have to ask again -- why? Orrville won seven in a row from 2005-2011. Maybe they think the enrollment disparity is hopeless, which I guess would be a legitimate concern. Still, I feel like a lot of parents/coaches want immediate wins.

Wooster was D1 when they left the Fed, and are D2 now (enrollment a bit lower than Lake). I could see them in two-tiered setup, but you'd still have to add in some teams that don't seem to want any part of Louisville, and would probably be even less excited about playing teams like Lake or Perry. I can think of a lot of great tier two setups that would be fun on the gridiron, but not so much on the finances of certain districts when you factor in travel concerns.
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  #94  
Old 02-07-17, 09:17 AM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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I just wonder about Central in a couple of years. St Thomas has 18 players committed to football right now. They have passing skills at Hall of Fame fitness on Monday and Weds and they have had nights where just 2 players showed up. Leagues and teams in this area may have to look at finding a way to work together
That is a fair comment. If the next 10 years is like the last 10 years, we will be a better fit for the IVC small school division than any new league anchored by Louisville, Wooster, etc. That said, there will be only one Catholic high school town within 3-5 years. Whether that is a sign of a dying product or the beginning of a renaissance thanks to having a singular focus on Catholic secondary education in Stark County, only time will tell.

As for Aquinas's 2017 team, if they can pick up 6 or so freshmen to make it a 24 man squad, they will look like most D7 schools and will likely be able to compete in their league. Most of the schools that size and in that division have small squads with 14 year olds playing varsity, etc. If they lighten the load in the non-league schedule, they could be OK. I do worry about sending freshmen linemen out to play against Marlington's 18 year olds, for example. The kids are at risk and the parents (especially mom's) won't like it at all. Another thing they need to realize is that most D7, 160 student schools do not have 4 boys sports offerings in one season. You cannot sustain golf, soccer, cross country and football with 20 boys per grade.
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  #95  
Old 02-07-17, 01:05 PM
simpleman simpleman is offline
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History doesn't lie

I think a lot of the people tied into making the decision to rejoin the Federal league weren't living in Louisville in the late 80's or are to young to remember why we decided to leave the Fed in 1990. I think most people would agree the two money/fan base sports are FOOTBALL and boys basketball.
The records of these 2 teams the last five seasons we played in the Fed were Football 13 wins and 37 losses. Boys basketball 10 wins and 95 losses. At this point it was decided we would drop out of the Federal league because we weren't putting our young athletes on a level playing field because of the difference in the enrollment numbers of the larger schools. The difference in enrollment of the larger schools and us in the Fed is greater now than it was in 1990!
I have been told we basically have no choice because of the spineless NBC league backdoor politics. I just hope that all other options are closely researched before we let history repeat itself.
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  #96  
Old 02-07-17, 01:45 PM
Summa Summa is offline
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Originally Posted by Stark Born & Bred View Post
That is a fair comment. If the next 10 years is like the last 10 years, we will be a better fit for the IVC small school division than any new league anchored by Louisville, Wooster, etc. That said, there will be only one Catholic high school town within 3-5 years. Whether that is a sign of a dying product or the beginning of a renaissance thanks to having a singular focus on Catholic secondary education in Stark County, only time will tell.

As for Aquinas's 2017 team, if they can pick up 6 or so freshmen to make it a 24 man squad, they will look like most D7 schools and will likely be able to compete in their league. Most of the schools that size and in that division have small squads with 14 year olds playing varsity, etc. If they lighten the load in the non-league schedule, they could be OK. I do worry about sending freshmen linemen out to play against Marlington's 18 year olds, for example. The kids are at risk and the parents (especially mom's) won't like it at all. Another thing they need to realize is that most D7, 160 student schools do not have 4 boys sports offerings in one season. You cannot sustain golf, soccer, cross country and football with 20 boys per grade.
ODE Enrollment Numbers as of October 2016 (Which is what the new OHSAA 3 year athletic enrollment count is based upon) is as follows:

Central: 345
Aquinas: 272

OHSAA 3-grade Athletic Count for Boys 2017-2018:

Central: 129
Aquinas: 112

Both schools' enrollment status is pathetic and Central has big time financial problems to go along with their significant enrollment decline. Both schools have done as well or better than anyone else in the County in athletics over the last 5-10 years despite this, but enrollment is much more important than athletic success.

One Catholic High School in the Canton area in the next 5 years will be a sign of a dying product, it will not be any type of resurgence. I can pretty much guarantee that. Unless of course, as we discussed in the past, a new high school is built and people see that the Diocese is serious about supporting Catholic Education, which most currently believe they are not, resulting in fewer and fewer people willing to make the tuition sacrifice due to the great uncertainty the Diocese has created and continues to feed. If there is one Catholic High School not in a brand new building with a brand new name in the next five years (preferably an independent or Order school) there will likely be no Catholic High School in Stark County within the next 10-12 years or one very, very small one. Build a new school and there will likely be a resurgence, don't and Catholic Education in Stark County is essentially done. That is simply reality.

Last edited by Summa; 02-07-17 at 02:35 PM.
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  #97  
Old 02-07-17, 01:46 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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The records of these 2 teams the last five seasons we played in the Fed were Football 13 wins and 37 losses. Boys basketball 10 wins and 95 losses.
Basketball, I don't think Louisville is going to compete. What about football, though? Could Louisville carve out a niche spot where they aren't a perennial power but do well enough to make the postseason and go on a run -- sort of like Lake? Or would they wind up in the basement?
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  #98  
Old 02-07-17, 02:01 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Originally Posted by Summa View Post
One Catholic High School in the Canton area in the next 5 years will be a sign of a dying product, it will not be any type of resurgence. I can pretty much guarantee that. Unless, of course as we discussed in the past, a new high school is built and people see that the Diocese is serious about supporting Catholic Education, which most currently believe they are not. Resulting in fewer and fewer people willing to make the tuition sacrifice. If there is one Catholic High School not in a brand new building with a brand new name in the next five years there will likely be no Catholic High School in Stark County within the next 10-12 years or one very, very small one. Build a new school and there will likely be a resurgence. Don't and Catholic Education ins Stark County is done for.
I don't think a new building is going to make a difference enrollment wise. Everyone already knows Central and Aquinas are top notch schools, even if the buildings are old. There just aren't enough kids or money in Stark County. It's an aging population. That's a cycle that won't reverse for many years, or ever, if there aren't major economic changes.

That having been said I don't see why Catholic education would cease in the county, new building or not. Consolidated, sure. But after that point, why would it disappear? There are plenty of Catholic high schools in Ohio towns much smaller than Canton/Stark County.
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  #99  
Old 02-07-17, 02:08 PM
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Eagle_62 Eagle_62 is offline
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From what I hear Louisville has a great group off young kids coming up. There probably won't be a better time for the Leps to jump into the FED, I think the real killer for Louisville might be joining the best girls league in the state.
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  #100  
Old 02-07-17, 02:10 PM
Bandit22 Bandit22 is offline
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I don't see Louisville having much choice in trying to join the fed.

now when the next big reshuffle of schools in leagues happens then yes I could see them leaving the fed for something they fit better within as far as numbers go.

Lville does stand to benefit from short drives, larger gates, and in all sports other than football compete vs schools they will see tournament time. So the focus comes to football and if they can keep their head above water. The game will be, as is in Lake, how many does Lville need to win to make the playoffs? which will make their non league selections that much more important.
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  #101  
Old 02-07-17, 02:12 PM
Summa Summa is offline
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I don't think a new building is going to make a difference enrollment wise. Everyone already knows Central and Aquinas are top notch schools, even if the buildings are old. There just aren't enough kids or money in Stark County. It's an aging population. That's a cycle that won't reverse for many years, or ever, if there aren't major economic changes.

That having been said I don't see why Catholic education would cease in the county, new building or not. Consolidated, sure. But after that point, why would it disappear? There are plenty of Catholic high schools in Ohio towns much smaller than Canton/Stark County.
I agree with your sentiment completely but new buildings do make a difference perception wise. People will know that the school is not going anywhere and the Diocese is serious about the health and stability of the school. That type of investment would give people faith in the Diocese again. More Stark Countians are sending their kids to Hoban and St. V than ever before. I disagree with those people but it doesn't change the fact. Hoban has made major improvements to its school with brand new additions. St. V is in a new building. Both St. V and Hoban are independent and not Diocesan schools which is a major plus in strengthening and growing a Catholic school.

People in Stark County will just send their kids up I-77 in greater numbers if a new school is not built in a more central location (neither STA or Central is ideally located to maximize enrollment for a single Catholic High School trying to draw from the entire county). I agree with you 100% that new buildings don't make schools better, the students, teachers and families are what make a school better, but perception and location both would be critical in increasing enrollment. Aquinas and Central are both great schools with great people but they are not cheap and issues with tuition affordability for middle class families also needs to be addressed aggressively. If both schools had tuition in the $4,500 to $5,000 range rather than the $7,000 range they would both have at least 100 more students in their schools. A county with the population of Stark County even with the aging demographic should have a single Catholic High School with at least 650 students. A consolidated school with a new name and colors at one of the two existing sites would have no where near that number and it should.

Last edited by Summa; 02-07-17 at 02:41 PM.
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  #102  
Old 02-07-17, 02:26 PM
Summa Summa is offline
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Are the Louisville boys athletic enrollment numbers correct? If so, both Alliance and Marlington have more boys in the OHSAA count than Louisville yet everyone wanted Louisville out of the league. That is pretty weak IMO. Good luck to Louisville wherever you end up, I have little respect for schools that blow up leagues because one school wins too much.
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  #103  
Old 02-07-17, 02:32 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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I agree with you 100% that new buildings don't make schools better, the students, teachers and families of schools are what make a school better, but perception and location both would be critical in increasing enrollment. A county with the population of Stark County even with the aging demographic should have a single Catholic High School with at least 650 students. A consolidated school with a new name and colors at one of the two existing sites would have no where near that number and it should.
You think move the school somewhere in Plain Twp/North Canton to keep the Louisville-area students in?
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  #104  
Old 02-07-17, 02:36 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Are the Louisville boys athletic enrollment numbers correct? If so, both Alliance and Marlington have more boys in the OHSAA count than Louisville yet everyone wanted Louisville out of the league. That is pretty weak IMO. Good luck to Louisville wherever you end up, I have little respect for schools that blow up leagues because one school wins too much.
And Marlington ended up beating Louisville to win the league this year. They acted like the Leps were Mount Union in the OAC. John Carroll had to wait 27 years to finally beat Mount and win the league!!
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  #105  
Old 02-07-17, 02:40 PM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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ODE Enrollment Numbers as of October 2016 (Which is what the new OHSAA 3 year athletic enrollment count is based upon) is as follows:

Central: 345
Aquinas: 272
I am assuming that is a Grade 6 through 12 number for Aquinas. Correct? That would have to include the middle school as the high school is below 200 kids. Correct? Just want to make sure I am not getting bad information on the numbers.

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. . . . Central has big time financial problems to go along with their significant enrollment decline.
As I have said before, that information is false. In fact, Central was just given the blessing to raise another $750K for facility enhancements and the DOY would not have allowed that if they were not current with their obligations. This will put the school near $10M in capital improvements since the turn of century.

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One Catholic High School in the Canton area in the next 5 years will be a sign of a dying product, it will not be any type of resurgence. I can pretty much guarantee that.
You could be right but, as I have said before, I would like to see if the county's parents, alumni and KEY funders (not the $50 per year crowd but the major funders who treat contributions like investments/ business transactions) are able to put their attention on one secondary institution -- to have a singular focus -- if that might not make a difference.

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If there is one Catholic High School not in a brand new building with a brand new name in the next five years there will likely be no Catholic High School in Stark County within the next 10-12 years or one very, very small one. Preferably an independent or Order Catholic High School. Build a new school and there will likely be a resurgence, don't and Catholic Education in Stark County is essentially done. That is simply reality.
You realize that there are no virtually no orders left that are staffing and supporting schools, right? Most of the order-run schools are simply run in the traditions of the order or with the order's charism as a guiding principle. To try and establish a new school as an order-run school without a religious presence and consisting of a board of laymen who have no idea about the mission or tradition of that order would simply be window dressing. Do you think these orders are going to come into a rust belt city and try and make a go of a new school? I just do not see that happening. The orders that are founding new schools are few and far between and are mainly concentrated in urban areas with a specific mission as its focus (such as the Jesuit's Cristo Rey network of schools).

I completely get your enthusiasm for a new school and I think it would be a great idea if money were no object but, given the cost of a new building and the fundraising capabilities in Stark County, I just think that is a bad idea. You would be crippling this new school with a debt that I estimate to be in the $20-$30M range. That is a lot of debt to service. Moreover, I think that money (I am estimating maximum fundraising numbers in the $10-15M range) would better serve the new school as endowment to subsidize the operating budget and badly needed financial aid in a community where the economy is stagnant, if not shrinking.

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If there is one Catholic High School not in a brand new building with a brand new name in the next five years there will likely be no Catholic High School in Stark County within the next 10-12 years or one very, very small one.
I think even with a new building we could be headed for one K-12 building, ala Lake Center Christian.

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Unless of course, as we discussed in the past, a new high school is built and people see that the Diocese is serious about supporting Catholic Education, which most currently believe they are not, resulting in fewer and fewer people willing to make the tuition sacrifice due to the great uncertainty the Diocese has created and continues to feed.
Through subsidies, the Diocese of Youngstown is sending more financial support to its high schools than any other diocese in the State of Ohio. I think they are a joke when it come to management of these schools but they are continuing to send money to them when most dioceses have gotten out of the education business altogether. Ironically, I think that a lot of the instability is created by their decision not to close schools - a high school and several elementary schools. To have extremely small, "dying" schools on life support throughout the county, with constant rumors of closure, cheapens and chips away at your entire brand.
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  #106  
Old 02-07-17, 02:42 PM
TriangleMan TriangleMan is offline
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You think move the school somewhere in Plain Twp/North Canton to keep the Louisville-area students in?
I have heard thru the grapevine that back in the 70's there was talk to consolidate in a building on or near the Walsh U. campus, so if consolidation into one building were to happen...
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  #107  
Old 02-07-17, 02:43 PM
Summa Summa is offline
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I am assuming that is a Grade 6 through 12 number for Aquinas. Correct? That would have to include the middle school as the high school is below 200 kids. Correct? Just want to make sure I am not getting bad information on the numbers.



As I have said before, that information is false. In fact, Central was just given the blessing to raise another $750K for facility enhancements and the DOY would not have allowed that if they were not current with their obligations. This will put the school near $10M in capital improvements since the turn of century.



You could be right but, as I have said before, I would like to see if the county's parents, alumni and KEY funders (not the $50 per year crowd but the major funders who treat contributions like investments/ business transactions) are able to put their attention on one secondary institution -- to have a singular focus -- if that might not make a difference.



You realize that there are no virtually no orders left that are staffing and supporting schools, right? Most of the order-run schools are simply run in the traditions of the order or with the order's charism as a guiding principle. To try and establish a new school as an order-run school without a religious presence and consisting of a board of laymen who have no idea about the mission or tradition of that order would simply be window dressing. Do you think these orders are going to come into a rust belt city and try and make a go of a new school? I just do not see that happening. The orders that are founding new schools are few and far between and are mainly concentrated in urban areas with a specific mission as its focus (such as the Jesuit's Cristo Rey network of schools).

I completely get your enthusiasm for a new school and I think it would be a great idea if money were no object but, given the cost of a new building and the fundraising capabilities in Stark County, I just think that is a bad idea. You would be crippling this new school with a debt that I estimate to be in the $20-$30M range. That is a lot of debt to service. Moreover, I think that money (I am estimating maximum fundraising numbers in the $10-15M range) would better serve the new school as endowment to subsidize the operating budget and badly needed financial aid in a community where the economy is stagnant, if not shrinking.



I think even with a new building we could be headed for one K-12 building, ala Lake Center Christian.



Through subsidies, the Diocese of Youngstown is sending more financial support to its high schools than any other diocese in the State of Ohio. I think they are a joke when it come to management of these schools but they are continuing to send money to them when most dioceses have gotten out of the education business altogether. Ironically, I think that a lot of the instability is created by their decision not to close schools - a high school and several elementary schools. To have extremely small, "dying" schools on life support throughout the county, with constant rumors of closure, cheapens and chips away at your entire brand.
No, that is the high school count for grades 9, 10, 11 and 12. It easily accessible on the ODE website. Maybe you should verify facts from actual sources rather than from hearsay. So yes you are getting bad numbers. As stated, enrollment trends are pathetic at both Central and Aquinas but at least use the correct numbers.

I am good friends with a board member at Central and the financial situation I address is correct. You may want to tell the board members their financials are wrong.

Hoban and St. V are both independent and have grown significantly in the last 10-15 years while almost all schools controlled by diocese have shrunk significantly.

No offense, but I think you are being very, very naive if you think one school at one of the two current locations will be successful.

K-12 would not necessarily be bad. I thought and still think STA should buy Eastgate, renovate it and have K-6 there and 7-12 in the high school. That model has worked well for CVCA.

Which schools do you think should be closed?

Last edited by Summa; 02-07-17 at 03:13 PM.
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  #108  
Old 02-07-17, 02:44 PM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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You think move the school somewhere in Plain Twp/North Canton to keep the Louisville-area students in?
I think you have to place where the current customers are and where they are projected to be. I would assume that would mean that the new site would skew north and west but then you run into the issue of whether or not you are locating yourself too close to Akron and Hoban. I could be wrong. I think if you place it too far east, you lose Jackson Twp. which is vital as they have a lot of current customers. Louisville currently has like 75 kids TOTAL -- grades K-12 -- in Catholic schools (and they are not all at St Thomas and St. Louis). I would not want to cater to them too much. So long as you are along or near major traffic arteries, that should lessen the logistical problems. Summa may disagree. I will interested to see his take.

Last edited by Stark Born & Bred; 02-07-17 at 03:35 PM.
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  #109  
Old 02-07-17, 02:56 PM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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No, that is the high school count grades 9, 10, 11 and 12. It easily accessible on the ODE website. Maybe you should verify facts from actual sources than from hearsay. So yes you are getting bad numbers. As stated, enrollment trends are pathetic at both Central and Aquinas but at least use the correct numbers.

I am good friends with a board member at Central and the financial situation is correct. It is not pretty.
No. Those are numbers as of the end of 2015-2016. Central is not at 345; it is at 313. Those numbers seemed suspect to me as I have the DOY verified enrollment numbers in front of me as of 9/15/2016. So I did a little digging.

The ODE site shows enrollment at Aquinas is grades 9, 10, 11 and 12 to be 60, 54, 81 and 77, respectively. This is where your 272 number is coming from. That number is as of the end of LAST (2015-2016) school year. Aquinas is currently at 191 (actually less as they have bled a few more kids during the school year) and have stated publicly that they lost 81 students between May and August. They lost that class of seniors (77) and replaced it with a freshmen class of 37 and lost 41 upperclassmen to transfers.

That is why I questioned that number. I knew you were nowhere near 272. Then I thought "Central is not at 345, either." You are either looking at the wrong tab or the ODE is wrong.

FAKE NEWS . . . is what I believe the conservatives call that now.
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  #110  
Old 02-07-17, 02:58 PM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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I have heard thru the grapevine that back in the 70's there was talk to consolidate in a building on or near the Walsh U. campus, so if consolidation into one building were to happen...
Somewhat true but not exactly. . . there was talk of closing Aquinas in the late 1970s. The plan to relocate to a single, central campus at or near Walsh was discussed in the mid to late 1980s.
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  #111  
Old 02-07-17, 03:02 PM
Summa Summa is offline
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No. Those are numbers as of the end of 2015-2016. Central is not at 345; it is at 313. Those numbers seemed suspect to me as I have the DOY verified enrollment numbers in front of me as of 9/15/2016. So I did a little digging.

The ODE site shows enrollment at Aquinas is grades 9, 10, 11 and 12 to be 60, 54, 81 and 77, respectively. This is where your 272 number is coming from. That number is as of the end of LAST (2015-2016) school year. Aquinas is currently at 191 (actually less as they have bled a few more kids during the school year) and have stated publicly that they lost 81 students between May and August. They lost that class of seniors (77) and replaced it with a freshmen class of 37 and lost 41 upperclassmen to transfers.

That is why I questioned that number. I knew you were nowhere near 272. Then I thought "Central is not at 345, either." You are either looking at the wrong tab or the ODE is wrong.

FAKE NEWS . . . is what I believe the conservatives call that now.
Then Aquinas needs to appeal its OHSAA numbers because that is what the new count of 112 boys is from. So does Central because their 129 number is also incorrect. That is the ODE count for October 2016.

Again if you think that a consolidated school at the Central campus will be successful you are in la la land. That school will be back down to 300 students within 5 years of consolidation and I will be on here telling you I was correct. You have a very inside the box view on the issue, it is simplistic and poorly thought out and will do nothing to change the trend. Bold things need to be done and closing schools is not bold, it is what has been done to no avail the last 15 years. A comprehensive plan with real investment needs to be made not the same old thing that does nothing but to further weaken Catholic education in the County.
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  #112  
Old 02-07-17, 03:11 PM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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No, that is the high school count for grades 9, 10, 11 and 12. It easily accessible on the ODE website. Maybe you should verify facts from actual sources rather than from hearsay. So yes you are getting bad numbers. As stated, enrollment trends are pathetic at both Central and Aquinas but at least use the correct numbers.
See my previous response. I think you have the wrong numbers in front of you.

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I am good friends with a board member at Central and the financial situation I address is correct.
You always have a "friend" -- at the Diocese, on the board -- must be nice. He might want to read his board reports a little closer

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Originally Posted by Summa View Post
Hoban and St. V are both independent and have grown significantly in the last 10-15 years while almost all schools controlled by diocese have shrunk significantly.
Plenty of examples of declining enrollment and closures among independently controlled and order-run schools in the last 10-15 years. This is a nationwide trend and I think scapegoating the DOY for the entire issue is an oversimplification of a complex issue.

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Originally Posted by Summa View Post
No offense, but I think you are being very, very naive if you think one school at one of the two current locations will be successful.
I am not sure it would work; I am just not on board with the idea we could raise the money for a new building. So, left with the option of trying a single school or not trying a single school, I side with trying it.

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Originally Posted by Summa View Post
K-12 would not necessarily be bad. I thought and still think STA should buy Eastgate, renovate it and have K-6 there and 7-12 in the high school. That model has worked well for CVCA.
Do you think that it would be necessary to buy Eastgate? I would think there would be plenty of room at the existing campus (though a second gym and some retrofitting would likely be required). I agree that an upper school/lower school reorganization could be worth a try. . . I think we discussed that on here years ago when they announced the elementary schools closings.

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Originally Posted by Summa View Post
Which schools do you think should be closed?
Yours, of course. Actually, I would have to study the current and (projected) future demographics to have a completely informed opinion. It is my assumption that if a consultant had to pick (and this study exists, although it is a few years stale now) between the lesser of two evils, Central would stay open due to its more proximate location to the current demand "centers" for Catholic education and its ability to more easily service Tusc County if and when TCC closes. Just a guess.

Last edited by Stark Born & Bred; 02-07-17 at 03:38 PM.
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  #113  
Old 02-07-17, 03:23 PM
Journey Journey is offline
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TCC isn't going to close.
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  #114  
Old 02-07-17, 03:23 PM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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Originally Posted by Summa View Post
Then Aquinas needs to appeal its OHSAA numbers because that is what the new count of 112 boys is from. So does Central because their 129 number is also incorrect. That is the ODE count for October 2016.

Again if you think that a consolidated school at the Central campus will be successful you are in la la land. That school will be back down to 300 students within 5 years of consolidation and I will be on here telling you I was correct. You have a very inside the box view on the issue, it is simplistic and poorly thought out and will do nothing to change the trend. Bold things need to be done and closing schools is not bold, it is what has been done to no avail the last 15 years. A comprehensive plan with real investment needs to be made not the same old thing that does nothing but to further weaken Catholic education in the County.
Then appeals will be filed because your numbers/the ODE numbers are from the 2015-2016 school year.

Successful is definitely a subjective term. Do I think that a consolidated school will suddenly balloon to 500 students? No and I have never said that. I have said before that I think that Aquinas closing even as soon as this year would only add to Central enrollment number by maybe 45-55 students. Aquinas has 115 frosh through juniors and I would estimate that we would get 30%, 40% tops. The others would go to publics or the Akron privates, maybe even Lake Christian. I assume we would get some from the middle school. Likely again, 30-40% of the 30 or students. So that is how I arrive at 45-55 students.

I see the main benefit as allowing the community to focus on one catholic secondary institution going forward, be it yours or ours, for both families looking for options and funders wanting to make sure they are not throwing money down a hole. I'm not sure that works but I am positive what we have is not working so I'm willing to try something new. I think it could be stable and give parents the vision of a stable school which, given the climate since 2000 in this county, would be success by some definition.

I like, no love, your ideas, I just think it is too late to put forth and fund and implement a dynamic plan that results in 2 schools sustaining themselves or a new high school being built.
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  #115  
Old 02-07-17, 03:24 PM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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TCC isn't going to close.
I hope you are right.
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  #116  
Old 02-07-17, 04:06 PM
Summa Summa is offline
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TCC isn't going to close.
Don't question SBB, it should be closed according to him.
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  #117  
Old 02-07-17, 04:09 PM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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Don't question SBB, it should be closed according to him and it will be.
I was nothing but civil toward you today and tried to discuss this topic with some respect despite the fact you told me "Maybe you should verify facts" when you, in fact, had the misinformation. Good luck to you and your school.
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  #118  
Old 02-07-17, 04:39 PM
TriangleMan TriangleMan is offline
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The spreadsheets are confusing as to what each represents.

The ODE FY-2016 spreadsheet states "This data represents a headcount of students in attendance during the first full week of classes in October 2015 (or another full week of school as determined by a waiver submission)."

The ODE Current Year spreadsheet states "This data represents a headcount of students in attendance during the first full week of classes in October 2016 (or another full week of school as determined by a waiver submission)."

Yet a spot check of schools shows the enrollment for all schools is the same in both spreadsheets.
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  #119  
Old 02-07-17, 04:42 PM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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Originally Posted by TriangleMan View Post
The spreadsheets are confusing as to what each represents.

The ODE FY-2016 spreadsheet states "This data represents a headcount of students in attendance during the first full week of classes in October 2015 (or another full week of school as determined by a waiver submission)."

The ODE Current Year spreadsheet states "This data represents a headcount of students in attendance during the first full week of classes in October 2016 (or another full week of school as determined by a waiver submission)."

Yet a spot check of schools shows the enrollment for all schools is the same in both spreadsheets.
No kidding. So, in short, you think the spreadsheets may be wrong for everyone?
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  #120  
Old 02-07-17, 04:49 PM
TriangleMan TriangleMan is offline
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Originally Posted by Stark Born & Bred View Post
No kidding. So, in short, you think the spreadsheets may be wrong for everyone?
Don't know what to think, but the numbers on the OHSAA site for proposed 2017 enrollments match both spreadsheets for St. Ed, DeSales, St. Ignatius, CCC, STA, yet there is now way STA has 31 boys in grade 9.
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