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  #61  
Old 11-25-16, 04:38 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Possessed View Post
Ah, but that's just it! The death panels end the suffering, and allow people to not look their choices right in the eye! Kids having to live with guilt, parents knowing the kids are stuffing them in homes! So utterly delicious! The sweaty, gritty face your life long sins aspect of it all!

Not to worry Cabby! We have room for those willing to sell mom to a death panel to save money!
It's funny how a funding source can change a decision to spend. How many people would be less willing to deny the obvious futility in keeping a terminally ill parent alive if they had to spend off of their own pile of money to do so ?

Probably a few more than would be willing to spend of their own funds to finance a Mars mission, but not a lot more. Fewer with each day that would pass...... I know what my mom would say - "give that Dr. a chance to be wrong, but pull that plug if I can't be fixed!".
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  #62  
Old 11-25-16, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
It's funny how a funding source can change a decision to spend. How many people would be less willing to deny the obvious futility in keeping a terminally ill parent alive if they had to spend off of their own pile of money to do so ?

Probably a few more than would be willing to spend of their own funds to finance a Mars mission, but not a lot more. Fewer with each day that would pass...... I know what my mom would say - "give that Dr. a chance to be wrong, but pull that plug if I can't be fixed!".
a lot of people. I'd gladly pony up to give my parents or any other family member a better quality of life if terminally ill. Sounds like you wouldn't? Seems cold.
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  #63  
Old 11-25-16, 05:04 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
a lot of people. I'd gladly pony up to give my parents or any other family member a better quality of life if terminally ill. Sounds like you wouldn't? Seems cold.
The entire issue is a lack of potential for quality of life. I think a backread is in order for you.
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  #64  
Old 11-25-16, 05:21 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
I'm not completely against it, but I just find it funny that the people who are anti-climate change and suggest it's a boondoggle and we have so much time before any real problems occur are sounding the alarm for planetary exploration and colonization because an asteroids "certain" to come and I guess there's no better way to spend a gazillion dollars.

Btw, I'm fully expecting a 4-5 paragraph rebuttal from lotr, but I'm hoping for 6+.
Sorry to disappoint you but:

* Human induced CATASTROPHIC GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE is not happening. The theory is weak and much of the scientific "research" supporting its occurrence is borderline fraudulent.

* The colonization of the solar system will happen because we are hard wired to explore and expand the boundaries of human habitation. It's in the genes and the fact that such an expansion will also protect us from an extinction level threat is simply a welcome feature.
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  #65  
Old 11-25-16, 05:25 PM
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I'd be willing to bet catastrophic climate change occurs before an asteroid wipes out humanity.
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  #66  
Old 11-25-16, 05:28 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Possessed View Post
cause, you know, astroid don't hit Mars, the sun won't expand and destroy it, and we have the extra cash right?
It's called playing the odds: extinction level asteroid strikes on BOTH the Earth & Mars in the same century would be like playing the power-ball lottery and expecting to win.

I don't know why you folks keep blabbering on about the sun expanding - that isn't going to happen for a LONG time and doesn't represent even a remote threat to humanity over the next million years. Now massive solar storms that destroy human civilization through their annihilation of our electrical power grid is a distinct possibility in the next 100 years. See "Carrington" Event:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859
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  #67  
Old 11-25-16, 05:29 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post

Why don't we try to accurately quantify man's actual role in climate change ? Work on that and get that sorted out.
I think we can do both at the same time Cabe!
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  #68  
Old 11-25-16, 05:39 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Zunardo View Post
Hopefully Arnold Schwarzenegger is in good enough shape for a trip to the Red Planet. He can find and activate the ancient alien machine artifact that will melt that ice block and bring about a breathable atmosphere so we can start building condos there.
Unfortunately, I wouldn't look for any shortcuts in terraforming Mars but it was an eye-popping scene in the movie!

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  #69  
Old 11-25-16, 05:40 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
I'd be willing to bet catastrophic climate change occurs before an asteroid wipes out humanity.
That would be a bad bet.
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  #70  
Old 11-25-16, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
That would be a bad bet.
Nah, it'd be a winner and you know it.
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  #71  
Old 11-25-16, 05:43 PM
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Does lotr really think Trump is going to fund Mars colonization? Hilarious.
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  #72  
Old 11-25-16, 05:46 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Nah, it'd be a winner and you know it.
The climate change the human race has experienced over the last 1,000 years has been well within the normal variability of climate change experienced over the last billion years.
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  #73  
Old 11-25-16, 05:53 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Does lotr really think Trump is going to fund Mars colonization? Hilarious.
I think Trump will fund expanded space research but I doubt he will fund a specific expedition to Mars beyond unmanned probes. But then again I'm not arguing that we should launch a human mission to Mars in the next 8 years (Trump's likely time in the White House).

First we need to build a REAL, workng space station in orbit and get rid of that PC experiment in worldwide hand holding called the International Space Station.

Second, we need to build a base on the moon. It's from the moon that a Mars craft will be assembled from components manufactured on earth and then sent into orbit for retrieval and transport to the moon.

Third, my guess is that the earliest we could expect a human mission to Mars is in 25 years. Colonization would likely not start for at least 50 years. The only thing that would trigger a faster timeline would be if the Chinese launched an aggressive bid to send humans to Mars ahead of us.
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  #74  
Old 11-25-16, 06:00 PM
Possessed Possessed is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
It's called playing the odds: extinction level asteroid strikes on BOTH the Earth & Mars in the same century would be like playing the power-ball lottery and expecting to win.

I don't know why you folks keep blabbering on about the sun expanding - that isn't going to happen for a LONG time and doesn't represent even a remote threat to humanity over the next million years. Now massive solar storms that destroy human civilization through their annihilation of our electrical power grid is a distinct possibility in the next 100 years. See "Carrington" Event:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859
So, you're not concerned about the sun expanding... yet "play the odds" on astroid hitting the earth rather than Mars? Solar flares, eh? I suppose they don't have those on Mars? Oh wait. Everybody will be underground. Mars doesnt have sesmic events, volcanoes, solar flares... all while being forced to live inside a high pressure, space locked environment.

You've been watching too many Star Trek episodes.
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  #75  
Old 11-25-16, 06:10 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Possessed View Post
So, you're not concerned about the sun expanding... yet "play the odds" on astroid hitting the earth rather than Mars? Solar flares, eh? I suppose they don't have those on Mars? Oh wait. Everybody will be underground. Mars doesnt have sesmic events, volcanoes, solar flares... all while being forced to live inside a high pressure, space locked environment.

You've been watching too many Star Trek episodes.
No I'm not at all concerned about the sun expanding for at least the next 100,000,000 years. My risk assessment here is similar to my rationale for NOT creating a financial plan based on my winning the power-ball lottery.

An asteroid strike on Earth is a worry but still a long shot in my lifetime. As for the threat of solar flairs, they are less serious for Mars as it is much farther away from the sun. Also, much of the electrical power grid infrastructure would be "hardened" to protect against Solar storms. One of the advantages of "starting over" from scratch. You can get a lot of stuff right.

But remember we will colonize the solar system NOT to avoid an extinction level event on earth. We will colonize the solar system because it's in our fundamental nature to do so. Can't fight them genes!
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  #76  
Old 11-25-16, 06:12 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Possessed View Post

You've been watching too many Star Trek episodes.
Star Trek was okay but a little to PC for my tastes, especially everything AFTER the original show. My influences come from reading a lot of science fiction. You would be surprised how many scientists write excellent science fiction.
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  #77  
Old 11-25-16, 07:48 PM
BlackHawk BlackHawk is offline
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Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
Why would we even want to build a place on mars? If earth becomes inhabitable like mars, wouldn't it be more cost effective to just do the building here? Why go to Mars? You could build now exactly what you would build on mars.
I love the idea of space travel and colonizing Mars as much as anyone, but Uncle Ted has a good point. I can't think of many cataclysmic Earth scenarios where a Mars colony would make more sense than building the same type colony (with complete safeguards and protections) on Earth. Even Antartica is far more forgiving environment (and closer) than Mars.

The Martian atmosphere, air pressure, lack of oxygen, low gravity, low solar energy, freezing temperatures, cosmic rays, radiation, lack of magnetosphere, UV rays, etc., would make it impossible to live outdoors without totally suiting up...even an Earth nuclear wasteland would be easier to live on than that inhospitable planet. Not to mention the need for food, water, oxygen and other materials necessary to live, that are readily available on Earth. Plus the distance! Just getting there is a whole 'nuther problem. A six month travel in a claustrophobic spaceship...what could possibly go wrong? (sarcasm font) The toll from long space travel and a Martian-type climate on human bodies is unknown...we adapted and evolved under Earth's specific conditions, not Mars. Not to mention funding and other issues, etc., etc...just a whole bunch of difficult obstacles to overcome with too many other priorities.

I think if humans survive long enough, we may be able to colonize Mars someday, but I'm not optimistic that it will happen any time soon.

Lotr, I love your enthusiasm and maybe humans are hardwired for exploration and maybe we can make quantum leaps in technology, but right now, there are far too many obstacles to colonize Mars in the next 50-100 years. Even if the Yellowstone caldera erupts or a meteorite strikes Earth, the aftermath would still be better to live on than Mars.
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  #78  
Old 11-25-16, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by BlackHawk View Post
I love the idea of space travel and colonizing Mars as much as anyone, but Uncle Ted has a good point. I can't think of many cataclysmic Earth scenarios where a Mars colony would make more sense than building the same type colony (with complete safeguards and protections) on Earth. Even Antartica is far more forgiving environment (and closer) than Mars.

The Martian atmosphere, air pressure, lack of oxygen, low gravity, low solar energy, freezing temperatures, cosmic rays, radiation, lack of magnetosphere, UV rays, etc., would make it impossible to live outdoors without totally suiting up...even an Earth nuclear wasteland would be easier to live on than that inhospitable planet. Not to mention the need for food, water, oxygen and other materials necessary to live, that are readily available on Earth. Plus the distance! Just getting there is a whole 'nuther problem. A six month travel in a claustrophobic spaceship...what could possibly go wrong? (sarcasm font) The toll from long space travel and a Martian-type climate on human bodies is unknown...we adapted and evolved under Earth's specific conditions, not Mars. Not to mention funding and other issues, etc., etc...just a whole bunch of difficult obstacles to overcome with too many other priorities.

I think if humans survive long enough, we may be able to colonize Mars someday, but I'm not optimistic that it will happen any time soon.

Lotr, I love your enthusiasm and maybe humans are hardwired for exploration and maybe we can make quantum leaps in technology, but right now, there are far too many obstacles to colonize Mars in the next 50-100 years. Even if the Yellowstone caldera erupts or a meteorite strikes Earth, the aftermath would still be better to live on than Mars.
It's all good. Ranch hand says we'll be able to get to Mars in seconds with the new tubes being built in 100 yrs.
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  #79  
Old 11-25-16, 09:00 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by BlackHawk View Post
I love the idea of space travel and colonizing Mars as much as anyone, but Uncle Ted has a good point. I can't think of many cataclysmic Earth scenarios where a Mars colony would make more sense than building the same type colony (with complete safeguards and protections) on Earth. Even Antartica is far more forgiving environment (and closer) than Mars.

The Martian atmosphere, air pressure, lack of oxygen, low gravity, low solar energy, freezing temperatures, cosmic rays, radiation, lack of magnetosphere, UV rays, etc., would make it impossible to live outdoors without totally suiting up...even an Earth nuclear wasteland would be easier to live on than that inhospitable planet. Not to mention the need for food, water, oxygen and other materials necessary to live, that are readily available on Earth. Plus the distance! Just getting there is a whole 'nuther problem. A six month travel in a claustrophobic spaceship...what could possibly go wrong? (sarcasm font) The toll from long space travel and a Martian-type climate on human bodies is unknown...we adapted and evolved under Earth's specific conditions, not Mars. Not to mention funding and other issues, etc., etc...just a whole bunch of difficult obstacles to overcome with too many other priorities.

I think if humans survive long enough, we may be able to colonize Mars someday, but I'm not optimistic that it will happen any time soon.

Lotr, I love your enthusiasm and maybe humans are hardwired for exploration and maybe we can make quantum leaps in technology, but right now, there are far too many obstacles to colonize Mars in the next 50-100 years. Even if the Yellowstone caldera erupts or a meteorite strikes Earth, the aftermath would still be better to live on than Mars.
The biggest advantage of a Mars colony will be as a jumping off place for exploiting the asteroid belt and exploring/exploiting the gas giants and their moons. Thin atmosphere & lower gravity not to mention being located much further out in the solar system place Mars in a unique position as the farthest big population outpost before we push into the outer solar system.
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  #80  
Old 11-25-16, 09:04 PM
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Does anyone remember how much the republiclones flipped out when I said driverless cars would be commonplace in 10-20 years?
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  #81  
Old 11-25-16, 11:04 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Sounds good, as long as I don't have to watch him pull that thing out of his nose again..........or look at that ugly little symbiot toad that lived in that other guy's chest again.
Hey Cabe, this one's for you:

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  #82  
Old 11-26-16, 01:34 AM
Possessed Possessed is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
The biggest advantage of a Mars colony will be as a jumping off place for exploiting the asteroid belt and exploring/exploiting the gas giants and their moons. Thin atmosphere & lower gravity not to mention being located much further out in the solar system place Mars in a unique position as the farthest big population outpost before we push into the outer solar system.
That's great and all... but to what end? You humans already have remote vehicles doing all that for you.
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  #83  
Old 11-26-16, 01:47 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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I see that techo-brainbooger, and I'll raise you one genius-level observer of the human condition -

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  #84  
Old 11-26-16, 11:04 AM
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I see that techo-brainbooger, and I'll raise you one genius-level observer of the human condition -


I love Carlin but that was a strange rant. His point seemed to be "we are awful so we shouldn't journey to space". Odd position to take but he was right about one thing, when we colonize first the Moon then Mars and then the whole solar system all our vices will be along for the ride.
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  #85  
Old 11-26-16, 11:08 AM
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That's great and all... but to what end? You humans already have remote vehicles doing all that for you.
The probes are a waste of time if all they do is substitute for human space exploration.

You ask to what end? Because as biological life we are commanded by our genes & intellect to spread the seed of humanity as far as possible. Ultimately EVERYTHING comes down to procreation and passing on our genes. The nation that best exploits the solar system will provide a superior chance for their off spring to thrive and reproduce. Everything else is secondary.
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  #86  
Old 11-26-16, 11:44 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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I love Carlin but that was a strange rant. His point seemed to be "we are awful so we shouldn't journey to space". Odd position to take but he was right about one thing, when we colonize first the Moon then Mars and then the whole solar system all our vices will be along for the ride.
My take-away is that he thinks we ought to work on a thing or two here before we attempt to export ourselves.
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  #87  
Old 11-26-16, 12:40 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Does anyone remember how much the republiclones flipped out when I said driverless cars would be commonplace in 10-20 years?
I could see that. Republicans like to do the work for themselves while democrats would rather someone else do it for them so yeah, I could see how Rs wouldnt like it as much as Dems
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  #88  
Old 11-26-16, 01:53 PM
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I could see that. Republicans like to do the work for themselves while democrats would rather someone else do it for them so yeah, I could see how Rs wouldnt like it as much as Dems
Great post.
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  #89  
Old 11-27-16, 01:36 PM
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I could see that. Republicans like to do the work for themselves while democrats would rather someone else do it for them so yeah, I could see how Rs wouldnt like it as much as Dems
Lol.. actually pretty acurate. They do love to be spoonfed!
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  #90  
Old 11-27-16, 01:36 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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I was hoping all you a holes were on the first flight out
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