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  #211  
Old 03-13-17, 01:59 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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NBA - resting players, is it a big deal or not? I think it is. There was a Warriors/ Spurs game that was played in primetime Saturday night that was like an exhibition game.

The NBA needs to tread lightly here, and I mean the NBA teams. The players / owners have made enormous sums of money based on TV contracts alone. Ticket sales are just a small amount of their revenue.

So the rub here is that advertisers will no longer pay these huge sums of money for these games with bench players. ESPN/ TBS/ TNT is in bed with the NBA and the NBA teams are biting the hand that's feeding them, it's as simple as that.

So we know the problem, how do we fix it?
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  #212  
Old 03-13-17, 02:03 PM
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I don't know how to fix the resting players issue, but I'm glad 14red is willing to tackle it.
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  #213  
Old 03-13-17, 02:43 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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As a non-moronic fan, I'm all for it. I realize the best teams will likely make deep runs and the whole point of playing professional basketball is to win a title. To do so you must be healthy for the playoffs.
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  #214  
Old 03-13-17, 03:52 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Don't schedule so many games or back to backs
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  #215  
Old 03-13-17, 04:58 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Lahey View Post
As a non-moronic fan, I'm all for it. I realize the best teams will likely make deep runs and the whole point of playing professional basketball is to win a title. To do so you must be healthy for the playoffs.
Thanks for at least having an opinion. I'm guessing you've not gone to a game where the stars don't play? It's bad for the product.
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  #216  
Old 03-13-17, 04:59 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
Don't schedule so many games or back to backs
Possible, but you make road trips even longer. Imagine a 6-7 game east coast or west coast road trip with no back to backs? Two weeks or more.
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  #217  
Old 03-13-17, 05:22 PM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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I hate to sound like one of those "when I was young" guys, but I don't remember guys like Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, and the like getting nights off to stay rested. The players of today have better travel arrangements and accommodations than ever, they shouldn't need nights off.

Part of it is on the league too, though. With so many team making the playoffs with so few actually having a possibility of succeeding, the regular season games have become exhibitions, making it very easy to give guys nights off. Giving away 3 or 4 games isn't going to impact whether the Warriors or Cavs continue to advance, so players and coaches have no reason not to rest the stars.
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  #218  
Old 03-14-17, 07:04 AM
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This article pretty much sums up why rest days are important and extend the longevity of the sports talent. Pretty much only dumb guys like 14red get worked up about this stuff.

http://thebiglead.com/2016/11/17/leb...on-of-america/

Quote:
Magic Johnson played an average of 72.5 games per season in his career, so injured or resting, there was a shot you weren’t going to see Magic Johnson when the Lakers came to town. LeBron has played an average of 75.9 games per season in his career, and that includes the 2011-2012 season when LeBron played all 62 games in the lockout-shortened season. Get rid of that season and LeBron appears in an average of 77 games a season. So right there, LeBron plays more often than Magic.
Quote:
Then there’s the Larry Bird comparison. Good lord. Larry Bird missed just 13 games over his first 7 seasons in the NBA. Then he played two more elite seasons and his body completely gave out. He had surgery on both Achilles and a bad back caught up to him. A month short of his 32nd birthday, Bird would never be the same.

Meanwhile, LeBron will turn 32 next month and he’s as strong as ever. And he’s already played more games and minutes than either Larry or Magic. He plays more minutes per game and he does it with a career usage rate (31.6%) that dwarfs Bird (26.5) and Johnson (22.3).
But carry on with this monumentally stupid discussion...

Last edited by eastside_purple; 03-14-17 at 10:08 AM..
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  #219  
Old 03-14-17, 09:42 AM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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Boom
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  #220  
Old 03-14-17, 10:30 AM
tallmadge H2 dad tallmadge H2 dad is offline
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It's a business. The coach is paid to win. If he doesn't, he gets fired. Hell, sometimes when he DOES win he gets fired (Blatt). The coach doesn't care that little Johnny doesn't get to see LeBron. That's not his problem. Bottom line...teams in contention need to be at their strongest come playoff time, whatever that means.
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  #221  
Old 03-14-17, 10:34 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Nice try EP, you and Stephen Douglas, the writer of this article, have successfully taken about .5 of the discussion to try to prove your point. Much like politics, anyone can twist stats to support their opinion, even me! Ha!

Let's look thought, Magic and Bird, and more so Bird, played college basketball, 25-30 games per season when they were 18-20 years old, more for Bird. Bird was 23 years old when he started his NBA career, LeBron had already played over 300 NBA games before age 23.

Now look at things from the 10,000 foot view, not one or two selective players. We have a epidemic of players sitting. You'd have to agree that back in the 80's and 90's this simply didn't happen. Players played. Now no one is advocating these guys play when they are hurt, or that they play 82 games year, but sitting guys once every other week is getting a little silly, isn't it?

Now to my main point, we have supposedly come to an age where players are being trained year around, in what they eat, in how they eat, and they do all this liftiing and training of their bodies...but they can't play more??? Look at the bodies of the players back in the 70's?? Yet many of these guys played everyday, didn't break down like players do now. So what is it?

One of the things I do like about LeBron is that he WANTS to play. I think he's getting all kinds of pressure from management to sit. But he has enough pride and competitiveness to know that he's the show, he needs to play. We need more of that in today's players.
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  #222  
Old 03-14-17, 10:59 AM
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The fact that James played 300 more NBA games by the time he was 23, only supports my argument. So, thanks!

The rest of your post is just a dumb guy rant, giving his opinion without backing anything up. In other words, a typical 14red post.
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  #223  
Old 03-14-17, 11:18 AM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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You pointing out that LeBron has played more seasons in the NBA compared to Bird/Magic did in college just adds to EP's argument. What a complete moron.
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  #224  
Old 03-14-17, 12:59 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
The fact that James played 300 more NBA games by the time he was 23, only supports my argument. So, thanks!

The rest of your post is just a dumb guy rant, giving his opinion without backing anything up. In other words, a typical 14red post.
Not really, the fact that Bird was broken down and declining when LeBron is clearly in his prime tells me that sitting/ playing makes no difference. Vince Carter is 40 years old and still playing a a semi-high level.
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  #225  
Old 03-14-17, 01:07 PM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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They rest. That's the whole point.
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  #226  
Old 03-14-17, 01:31 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
we have supposedly come to an age where players are being trained year around, in what they eat, in how they eat, and they do all this liftiing and training of their bodies...but they can't play more???
Maybe like the rest of those things you listed, they figured out there was a new way to do things that worked better?

I don't think it's that guys "can't" play, it's that they/their coach have decided resting occasionally during the regular season is a better strategy than playing every game if you want to win a championship, which should be the ultimate goal of every team.
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  #227  
Old 03-14-17, 03:24 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
Maybe like the rest of those things you listed, they figured out there was a new way to do things that worked better?

I don't think it's that guys "can't" play, it's that they/their coach have decided resting occasionally during the regular season is a better strategy than playing every game if you want to win a championship, which should be the ultimate goal of every team.
Ok, I understand your point...BUT, how did we get from a time when guys DID play all the time, AND they still tried to win championships?? You certainly could make the point that Michael Jordan didn't need to play every game for the Bulls and they still would have won titles. But that's the point, he did play every, or at least every game he was physically able to play.
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  #228  
Old 03-14-17, 03:32 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Ok, I understand your point...BUT, how did we get from a time when guys DID play all the time, AND they still tried to win championships??
Because it's about improving your likelihood to win a title and they found something that improves their chances?

How did we go from a time where guys didn't lift weights to a time they did? Because teams/players found something that gave them an edge, and adapted.

You're making this more complicated than it needs to be.
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  #229  
Old 03-14-17, 04:11 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
Because it's about improving your likelihood to win a title and they found something that improves their chances?

How did we go from a time where guys didn't lift weights to a time they did? Because teams/players found something that gave them an edge, and adapted.

You're making this more complicated than it needs to be.
Right.

It's like asking how did we get from horses to cars. Somebody figured out a way to do it better
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  #230  
Old 03-14-17, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Ok, I understand your point...BUT, how did we get from a time when guys DID play all the time, AND they still tried to win championships?? You certainly could make the point that Michael Jordan didn't need to play every game for the Bulls and they still would have won titles. But that's the point, he did play every, or at least every game he was physically able to play.
And we saw less of Jordan, likely because he burned out on basketball....nearly two year break and the early retirement at 34. And we already dispelled the notion that Bird and Magic played more than James. James is set up for 4-6 more elite years. Those guys all burned and crashed mentally or physically or both.
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  #231  
Old 03-15-17, 08:13 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
This article pretty much sums up why rest days are important and extend the longevity of the sports talent. Pretty much only dumb guys like 14red get worked up about this stuff.

http://thebiglead.com/2016/11/17/leb...on-of-america/





But carry on with this monumentally stupid discussion...
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Nice try EP, you and Stephen Douglas, the writer of this article, have successfully taken about .5 of the discussion to try to prove your point. Much like politics, anyone can twist stats to support their opinion, even me! Ha!

Let's look thought, Magic and Bird, and more so Bird, played college basketball, 25-30 games per season when they were 18-20 years old, more for Bird. Bird was 23 years old when he started his NBA career, LeBron had already played over 300 NBA games before age 23.
If you include FIBA ball LeBron has played a total (regular season, playoff, FIBA) of 50,081 minutes as of 9:12 AM today. That puts him at 6th all time on the minutes played list. Take away his FIBA minutes (930) and he's still 6th all time.

The only minutes per game average I could find on Larry in college was about 37 minutes per game his freshman year. I used that as the average for the following two years in college. Which gives Larry an additional 3,478 minutes played. He still falls 5,130 minutes short of LeBron's current minute total, or about 2.5 seasons worth of minutes.

sources: http://hoopshype.com/2015/08/10/lebr...nd-steve-nash/
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jamesle01.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/...ry-bird-1.html
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  #232  
Old 03-15-17, 10:59 AM
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OK, this is a tough issue with no easy answer. Surely the coaches need to be able to rest players periodically to boost their performance in key games later down the line. And just as surely, when the stars rest, the fans in the arena that night suffer. But something has to give. Sorry about your luck fans, you picked the wrong night to go.

But I do agree with 14Red that it is bad business to pick a Saturday night prime time national TV game to use for resting all of your stars. It happens rarely, so its not like the networks will reduce the contract payments on the next contract, but it does not put the league's best foot forward. I think the league could consider a policy about timing of "rest" days for starters. Kerr could have just as easily rested them the night before the back-to-back in San Antonio.

One other point on this discussion. Let's not hold up LeBron as the standard to base decisions on. The man's body is simply not normal. He is an absolute physical freak of nature. He can endure more than anyone else I have ever seen.
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  #233  
Old 03-15-17, 11:13 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
OK, this is a tough issue with no easy answer. Surely the coaches need to be able to rest players periodically to boost their performance in key games later down the line. And just as surely, when the stars rest, the fans in the arena that night suffer. But something has to give. Sorry about your luck fans, you picked the wrong night to go.

But I do agree with 14Red that it is bad business to pick a Saturday night prime time national TV game to use for resting all of your stars. It happens rarely, so its not like the networks will reduce the contract payments on the next contract, but it does not put the league's best foot forward. I think the league could consider a policy about timing of "rest" days for starters. Kerr could have just as easily rested them the night before the back-to-back in San Antonio.

One other point on this discussion. Let's not hold up LeBron as the standard to base decisions on. The man's body is simply not normal. He is an absolute physical freak of nature. He can endure more than anyone else I have ever seen.
Very true wolves, the bigger question maybe "why" Kerr would choose Sat. primetime to sit players, or Pop, or any coaches. There is enough games and flexibility to not sit all guys on one night, or at least use the "least worst" senario.

And you are dead on about LeBron, we may never see another star like him (other than Cal Ripken) who is an seemingly indestructible as LeBron. Bird may have been predisposed to a bad back, and let's face it, he wasn't the picture of health even in his prime, but alot of players looked like normal people back then. My point is with all these advances in nutrition and training, players (I would think) should play more than less.
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  #234  
Old 03-26-17, 09:19 AM
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How about Booker dropping 70 a couple days ago. Only made 4 three pointers as well
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  #235  
Old 03-26-17, 09:22 AM
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Good, I guess. Team lost by over 20. He needed time outs, intentional fouls, and the Celtics scrub team in the fourth Q to get there.
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  #236  
Old 03-26-17, 09:26 AM
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nt sure he got intentionally fouled often made a ton of free throws. I mean only 6 players have done it. Wasnt spectacular or anything like kobe.
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  #237  
Old 03-26-17, 09:29 AM
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I agree the end of game maneuvering was a little much
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  #238  
Old 03-26-17, 09:33 AM
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His team intentionally fouled the Celtics to get him more opportunities to score.
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  #239  
Old 03-26-17, 09:34 AM
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Booker is going to be a great player, but he didn't really score a legit 70. Still, even getting 50+ is an awesome feat.
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  #240  
Old 03-26-17, 09:36 AM
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I'd say there are plenty of 50 plus performances that were better than that.

Not sure how as a coach you would allow the end of the game to play out like that but I guess when you are bad you look for anything
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