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  #61  
Old 01-10-17, 03:37 PM
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  #62  
Old 01-10-17, 10:06 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Bluth's been trying to claim this for years. Top 8 vs top 8, the West is easily stronger. Beyond top 8, who cares?
Last year was the first time I began to argue that the East is becoming stronger than the West from teams 5-12.

The 8 seed in the west right now is currently like 8 games below .500.

They are very strong in the top 2,3, or 4 but pretty weak after that. Utah shows promise though
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  #63  
Old 01-10-17, 10:09 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Based on what?? I would say 4 of the top 5 NBA teams are in the west, and I could even argue that 7 of the top 8 are in the west. The Cavs have a cake walk to the finals.
I said deeper, I didn't say it had the majority of the top 4.

Cleveland, Toronto, and Boston are all top 6 or 7 IMO. A bunch of other teams in the mix as well. A couple more will emerge. Indiana and Milwaukee have that potential
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  #64  
Old 01-10-17, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
Last year was the first time I began to argue that the East is becoming stronger than the West from teams 5-12.

The 8 seed in the west right now is currently like 8 games below .500.

They are very strong in the top 2,3, or 4 but pretty weak after that. Utah shows promise though
Portland, Sacramento and New Orleans are probably 500 teams in the east.
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  #65  
Old 01-11-17, 02:04 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Portland, Sacramento and New Orleans are probably 500 teams in the east.
Well, currently the first two you mentioned have worse winning percentages against the East than they do against the West.
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  #66  
Old 01-11-17, 02:07 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
Last year was the first time I began to argue that the East is becoming stronger than the West from teams 5-12.

The 8 seed in the west right now is currently like 8 games below .500.

They are very strong in the top 2,3, or 4 but pretty weak after that. Utah shows promise though
And Utah just beat the only good team in the East. Boston and Toronto would be battling for the 7-8 seeds in the West.
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  #67  
Old 01-11-17, 02:10 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
And Utah just beat the only good team in the East. Boston and Toronto would be battling for the 7-8 seeds in the West.
Milwaukee just won at San Antonio last night. Nice try though.

And no, the Knicks and Magic would currently be battling for the 8 seed in the West
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  #68  
Old 01-11-17, 02:23 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
And Utah just beat the only good team in the East. Boston and Toronto would be battling for the 7-8 seeds in the West.
Warriors lost both of their games to the Grizzlies this year, obviously the Grizzlies are not the favorite to win the West, correct?
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  #69  
Old 01-11-17, 02:25 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim Lahey View Post
Warriors lost both of their games to the Grizzlies this year, obviously the Grizzlies are not the favorite to win the West, correct?
I bet the Grizz would be a top 4 team in the East, possibly #2.
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  #70  
Old 01-11-17, 02:26 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
I bet the Grizz would be a top 4 team in the East, possibly #2.
For sure dude. Except the face they are currently 8-9 against Eastern Conference teams. In layman's terms: they have a losing record against the East and would put them in 10th.

But that wasn't my question. My question is they are the #1 team in the West, because they're 2-0 against the Warriors, right?

Last edited by Jim Lahey; 01-11-17 at 02:51 PM..
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  #71  
Old 01-11-17, 03:02 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim Lahey View Post
For sure dude. Except the face they are currently 8-9 against Eastern Conference teams. In layman's terms: they have a losing record against the East and would put them in 10th.

But that wasn't my question. My question is they are the #1 team in the West, because they're 2-0 against the Warriors, right?
Looking at the standings the Warriors would be the #1 team, this isn't college football where they bypass teams because a committee feels like it?
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  #72  
Old 01-11-17, 03:24 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Looking at the standings the Warriors would be the #1 team, this isn't college football where they bypass teams because a committee feels like it?
So then why are you using Utah's win over Cleveland as an example of why the bottom feeders of the West would be an elite team in the East? Do you often contradict yourself?
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  #73  
Old 01-11-17, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Lahey View Post
So then why are you using Utah's win over Cleveland as an example of why the bottom feeders of the West would be an elite team in the East? Do you often contradict yourself?
Just to prove a point that Utah, the 6th team in the West currently, can hang with the best team in the east. Now could the Jazz beat the Cavs in a 5 or 7 game series? Probably not, but could the Jazz contend in the east? IMO, yes.
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  #74  
Old 01-11-17, 04:17 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Just to prove a point that Utah, the 6th team in the West currently, can hang with the best team in the east. Now could the Jazz beat the Cavs in a 5 or 7 game series? Probably not, but could the Jazz contend in the east? IMO, yes.
The Grizzlies, the 5th seed in the West, cannot compete with the East as evidenced by the their .470 winning percentage against the East. Thus, as the 5th seed is higher than the 6th seed, the Jazz cannot contend in the East. Furthermore, since the Grizzlies are 2-0 against the Warriors, the 1st seed in the West, we can decisively say the Warriors would be no best than the 11th best team in the East, as the Grizzlies would currently be the 10th seed with their 0.470 winning percentage against the East.
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  #75  
Old 01-11-17, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
Well, currently the first two you mentioned have worse winning percentages against the East than they do against the West.
The number 2-4 teams in the East, Toronto, Boston and Atlanta, have much worse records against the West than the East. Boston and Atlanta even has losing records vs the East.

Btw, the East's total record vs the West is 99-119 to date. Being 20 games under 500 vs the West, doesn't speak well to your greater depth theory.

Last edited by eastside_purple; 01-11-17 at 04:57 PM..
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  #76  
Old 01-12-17, 02:22 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Bottom line, whether you favor the East or West, the difference isn't nearly as stark as it was just two or three years ago, and the current trend clearly favors the eastern conference. People like 14Red, however, will forever believe what was once true will always be true.

I like to notice things before they come fully to fruition. Anyone can make a claim once it's already happened. Completely boring and useless when people wait for something to happen before predicting it
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  #77  
Old 01-12-17, 03:38 PM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
Bottom line, whether you favor the East or West, the difference isn't nearly as stark as it was just two or three years ago, and the current trend clearly favors the eastern conference. People like 14Red, however, will forever believe what was once true will always be true.

I like to notice things before they come fully to fruition. Anyone can make a claim once it's already happened. Completely boring and useless when people wait for something to happen before predicting it
Can you educate us on the trend that's clearly favoring the East? Was the East even significantly worse than a 0.454 winning percentage against the West prior to this season?
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  #78  
Old 01-12-17, 04:00 PM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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Nvm, I did the math since it was easy:

East's winning% vs West
2012-13 0.418
2013-14 0.369
2014-15 0.416
2015-16 0.484
2016-17 0.454 YTD through 1/11

I'll buy the East has improved, but no way do I buy they are deeper than the West. Fair?
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  #79  
Old 01-12-17, 04:15 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Is this the old "Big ten is better in football if we just keep saying it's so"?? Because as we saw, that definitely isn't true.

I notice things like the West just having better teams and better basketball than the east, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Especially when the below .500 Blazers had their way with the best team in the east last night. And the Cavs are fully healthy, both teams coming off back to backs. No advantage.
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  #80  
Old 01-12-17, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Is this the old "Big ten is better in football if we just keep saying it's so"?? Because as we saw, that definitely isn't true.

I notice things like the West just having better teams and better basketball than the east, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Especially when the below .500 Blazers had their way with the best team in the east last night. And the Cavs are fully healthy, both teams coming off back to backs. No advantage.
Well, there's little doubt the East is gaining some ground on the West, but they definitely aren't deeper. It'd be nice if you actually posted facts and trends vs dumb guy anecdotal observations and stupid college analogies like you did here. Maybe you wouldn't be treated as a huge buffoon with no credibility.
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  #81  
Old 01-12-17, 04:37 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Especially when the below .500 Blazers had their way with the best team in the east last night. And the Cavs are fully healthy, both teams coming off back to backs. No advantage.
We've been over this already, dummy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Lahey View Post
The Grizzlies, the 5th seed in the West, cannot compete with the East as evidenced by the their .470 winning percentage against the East. Thus, as the 5th seed is higher than the 6th seed, the Jazz cannot contend in the East. Furthermore, since the Grizzlies are 2-0 against the Warriors, the 1st seed in the West, we can decisively say the Warriors would be no best than the 11th best team in the East, as the Grizzlies would currently be the 10th seed with their 0.470 winning percentage against the East.
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  #82  
Old 01-12-17, 05:02 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Well, there's little doubt the East is gaining some ground on the West, but they definitely aren't deeper. It'd be nice if you actually posted facts and trends vs dumb guy anecdotal observations and stupid college analogies like you did here. Maybe you wouldn't be treated as a huge buffoon with no credibility.
If 9-10 of the top 12 teams in the NBA are from the west, I'm not sure how that's construed as gaining ground, but it's your world EP. You have your opinions and I certainly respect them, unlike yours of mine.
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  #83  
Old 01-12-17, 05:06 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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14Red, just because you say 9-10 of the top 12 teams in the NBA are from the West does not make it true. By your own logic, we've determined the Warriors, the 1st seed in the West, is the 11th best team in the East.
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  #84  
Old 01-12-17, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
If 9-10 of the top 12 teams in the NBA are from the west, I'm not sure how that's construed as gaining ground, but it's your world EP. You have your opinions and I certainly respect them, unlike yours of mine.
Pretty pathetic you have to make sh!t up just to eck out a weak response.
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  #85  
Old 01-13-17, 11:08 AM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Overall, I still think the West is better but here are some shifts that have contributed to lessening the depth out west IMO:

- Durant leaves OKC for GS. Essentially eliminates one big contender from the West, and strengthens the team that was already the best.
- Aldridge leaves Portland for SA. Same thing. Eliminates Portland as a threat, strengthens an already great team.
- Dallas fades away into the sunset as Dirk gets older. Another contender gone.
- LA, Phoenix, Denver no longer competitive
- Memphis getting older without adding any young talent
- LAC never really taking the next step

Some positives trends:
- Houston. An enigma to me, but maybe they've figured it out now that Dwight Howard is out of the way
- Utah, definitely on the ups
- the rich get richer. SA and GS are even better


All of this is happening while some good young talent is being infused into the East in places like Boston, Milwaukee, and Toronto. It's not quite there yet, but I think it's at least to a place where conversation is warranted. There wasn't even a discussion two to three years ago. The chasm is closing
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  #86  
Old 01-13-17, 11:31 AM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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I'm fascinated with Giannis. The fact he runs the point so well while being 7' is insane. I really hope he can develop a 3 point shot. He was "2 years away from being ready to play" when he was drafted 3 years ago and now he's one of the better players in the East and a legit All Star.
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  #87  
Old 01-13-17, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
Overall, I still think the West is better but here are some shifts that have contributed to lessening the depth out west IMO:

- Durant leaves OKC for GS. Essentially eliminates one big contender from the West, and strengthens the team that was already the best.
- Aldridge leaves Portland for SA. Same thing. Eliminates Portland as a threat, strengthens an already great team.
- Dallas fades away into the sunset as Dirk gets older. Another contender gone.
- LA, Phoenix, Denver no longer competitive
- Memphis getting older without adding any young talent
- LAC never really taking the next step

Some positives trends:
- Houston. An enigma to me, but maybe they've figured it out now that Dwight Howard is out of the way
- Utah, definitely on the ups
- the rich get richer. SA and GS are even better


All of this is happening while some good young talent is being infused into the East in places like Boston, Milwaukee, and Toronto. It's not quite there yet, but I think it's at least to a place where conversation is warranted. There wasn't even a discussion two to three years ago. The chasm is closing
I'll take this as your way of admitting the East isn't deeper.
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  #88  
Old 01-13-17, 01:03 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Still depends how you define deeper. I'd wager the East will have more teams finish over .500

Just thought it could be a less boring discussion than we usually have in the NBA forum
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  #89  
Old 01-13-17, 01:10 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Pretty pathetic you have to make sh!t up just to eck out a weak response.
Oh this isn't made up, I believe 9 or 10 of the top 12 NBA teams come out of the western conference. I don't make things up.
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  #90  
Old 01-13-17, 01:12 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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I'm fascinated with Giannis. The fact he runs the point so well while being 7' is insane. I really hope he can develop a 3 point shot. He was "2 years away from being ready to play" when he was drafted 3 years ago and now he's one of the better players in the East and a legit All Star.
He's a unique talent, and I'm real excited to see a new guy on my team, the Sixes, Ben Simmons. Not as athletic or explosive as Giannis, he sees the floor well and should be a nice fit with Embiid and the rest of the Young Sixers.
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