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  #31  
Old 05-11-16, 10:24 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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The casinos aren't going to buy up 60,000 tickets.
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  #32  
Old 05-11-16, 11:47 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
The casinos aren't going to buy up 60,000 tickets.
I agree but I'm guessing they'll purchase nearly all the boys which aren't for the blue collar fan anyways. They're also going to buy a number of tickets for vip people who aren't quit VIP. They'll also work with brokers so they have the ability to provide other guest the chance to buy tickets. I understand you can somewhat do this with brokers right now in other cities but I'm not sure how it will work in a "destination city" where they're also trying to sell a brand to the locals.

My worry is that LV will put the tickets at a price where the normal middle class fans can't afford to take their family. Yea they may see the same tickets to a family from New York but will that grow their local market? Sure I'd love to go out with some friends and catch a game but I'm not going to spend additional money on gear.
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  #33  
Old 05-12-16, 12:17 AM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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There are two million residents of Las Vegas. It's not a city filled with degenerate gamblers. They'll have a fanbase.
Exactly.
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  #34  
Old 05-12-16, 12:26 AM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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Originally Posted by brianwr112 View Post
I agree but I'm guessing they'll purchase nearly all the boys which aren't for the blue collar fan anyways. They're also going to buy a number of tickets for vip people who aren't quit VIP. They'll also work with brokers so they have the ability to provide other guest the chance to buy tickets. I understand you can somewhat do this with brokers right now in other cities but I'm not sure how it will work in a "destination city" where they're also trying to sell a brand to the locals.

My worry is that LV will put the tickets at a price where the normal middle class fans can't afford to take their family. Yea they may see the same tickets to a family from New York but will that grow their local market? Sure I'd love to go out with some friends and catch a game but I'm not going to spend additional money on gear.
They won't have to sell a "brand". They're the freaking Raiders, one of the most iconic franchises in the NFL with almost as strong of an "identity" as the Dallas Cowboys. Moving this franchise into any western city, much less Vegas is only going to help them increase their brand. It's perfect.

I would argue that ticket prices around the league are already at prices the middle class should probably not be able to afford, but yet almost every week the seats are still full. Whether families split up their ticket packages, or only buy single game tickets once a year, people always show up to the games. I work with a bunch of guys making $15/hr and five of them in separate families all somehow manage to afford Bungals season tickets. Idk how but they do. The NFL is like crack to most people (myself included to an extent) and no matter what happens or how much it costs people will support it. I don't see why this wouldn't be the case in Vegas.

So yes, if Las Vegas and UNLV build this stadium the Raiders are as good as gone from Oakland imo.

Last edited by Sig Hansen; 05-12-16 at 12:38 AM..
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  #35  
Old 05-12-16, 12:54 AM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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The Raiders are going to do what's best for themselves financially. They're not going to sell out to the casinos when it would be so obviously harmful.

This entire scenario of casinos and gambling running amok with the Raiders and the NFL product is absurd. There's literally been nothing stopping that from happening anywhere in the country.

Ticket prices aaren't going to price out the people they want to attract. Whether that's blue collar types is something else.
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  #36  
Old 05-13-16, 01:10 AM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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I agree the Raiders have a huge brand in the US but they'll have to build their own foot print in LV. We all know that HUGE Cowboys fan who can't name five players yet buy tickets and merchandise every season. Not that I like those fans but they're a big part in revenue.

In terms of pricing take a look at the Yankees. Probably the most historic team in the US but once moving to the new stadium they overpriced themselves to the point the casual fan doesn't attend and it's really hurting their attendance. I also know any people that don't seem to have the money to pay child support but don't miss a single game.

I don't think the gambling thing is as bad as people made it out to be in the past. With the player's salaries being what they are you'd have to come up with serious money for them to risk their career. I believe the NFL would do anything they could to block betting from the actual stadium. Well unless one casino sponsors them and then it's game on.
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  #37  
Old 05-13-16, 04:14 PM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Originally Posted by brianwr112 View Post
My worry is that LV will put the tickets at a price where the normal middle class fans can't afford to take their family. Yea they may see the same tickets to a family from New York but will that grow their local market? Sure I'd love to go out with some friends and catch a game but I'm not going to spend additional money on gear.
You mean the same as every other NFL market? Have you actually taken a family to a football game recently?
The problem you're proposing isn't really a problem at all. Most fans would rather watch their team from the comfort of their home on a big screen hi def tv.
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  #38  
Old 05-13-16, 04:18 PM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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Right, the NFL has been cutting out the middle class for quite some time now. It will backfire eventually, IMO.
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  #39  
Old 05-13-16, 04:46 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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NFL ticket prices aren't cheap that is for sure. My buddies and I have steelers season tickets with a 310 mile trip just to the stadium. Well..I should say, they have them and I got out 2 years ago because of the price and the fact that my brother's company has 8 tickets to each game on the 50 and he and I use them a couple of times a year...for free.

Third row from the top face value on those bad boys re $84 I believe. Going by yourself....taking a date or whatever it isn't terrible but yeah, taking a family is very expensive.

The $$$ from tickets is such a small bit that the NFL and teams take in. They are going to continually raise ticket prices until they have a hard time selling tickets on a consistent basis.


Then when the playoffs come around....watch out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #40  
Old 05-13-16, 10:20 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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You'd think they were overpriced for the middle-class but it seems to be a majority of their market when you attend a game. I'll usually go to 1-2 games a year but can't justify buying season tickets when it's difficult for me to make Thursday, Sunday and Monday night games (which are usually the ones I'd truly want to go to).

It seems like some owners are also concerned on whether Vegas can support a team. It's hard to come up with true estimations because there hasn't ever been a big league team there to study. When the "newness" wears off will their still be a following. Will stadium upgrades come private funds or taxes?
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  #41  
Old 05-14-16, 02:21 AM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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Originally Posted by brianwr112 View Post
You'd think they were overpriced for the middle-class but it seems to be a majority of their market when you attend a game. I'll usually go to 1-2 games a year but can't justify buying season tickets when it's difficult for me to make Thursday, Sunday and Monday night games (which are usually the ones I'd truly want to go to).

It seems like some owners are also concerned on whether Vegas can support a team. It's hard to come up with true estimations because there hasn't ever been a big league team there to study. When the "newness" wears off will their still be a following. Will stadium upgrades come private funds or taxes?
Haha, don't be naďve. Taxpayer always foots the bill for this. However if Las Vegas gov't is smart they make that tax a tourist tax instead of property or income tax. Much wider net that way. But I wouldn't expect it
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  #42  
Old 05-14-16, 06:16 AM
joesports joesports is offline
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I see the casinos getting package deals ... customers come in for a long weekend of gambling and a game. They bring them in on Thursday or Friday, where they gamble for 2/3 days and on Sunday the set up a on site tailgate party ... then off to the game. Sounds nice to me.
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  #43  
Old 05-14-16, 11:58 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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Originally Posted by Sig Hansen View Post
Haha, don't be naďve. Taxpayer always foots the bill for this. However if Las Vegas gov't is smart they make that tax a tourist tax instead of property or income tax. Much wider net that way. But I wouldn't expect it
I'm not sure on Nevada law but a lot of these have to be voted on. Due to numerous communities getting screwed over in these deals they haven't been as easy to pass as they once were. I'm not sure how bad the citizens of Las Vegas really want a team and be willing to vote for it. I agree the best way to go would be a tourist tax but even those affect locals.

I'm still not convinced the Davis family isn't using this for leverage.
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  #44  
Old 05-15-16, 03:27 AM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Didn't the Raiders quasi-pledge $500m?
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  #45  
Old 05-15-16, 11:12 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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Which means absolutely nothing in terms of an actual deal.
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  #46  
Old 05-16-16, 11:25 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by brianwr112 View Post
You'd think they were overpriced for the middle-class but it seems to be a majority of their market when you attend a game. I'll usually go to 1-2 games a year but can't justify buying season tickets when it's difficult for me to make Thursday, Sunday and Monday night games (which are usually the ones I'd truly want to go to).

It seems like some owners are also concerned on whether Vegas can support a team. It's hard to come up with true estimations because there hasn't ever been a big league team there to study. When the "newness" wears off will their still be a following. Will stadium upgrades come private funds or taxes?
Yeah..Thursday and Monday night games are pretty much automatic sell on ebay games an dmostly sunday as well.

If the team is good..you can recoup some of the money but you end up losing it on the preseason games you must pay full price for. THat is a joke.
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  #47  
Old 05-16-16, 12:06 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Which means absolutely nothing in terms of an actual deal.
Unless Las Vegas is holding them to it, which they would be dumb not to do. The Raiders seem pretty desperate right now.
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  #48  
Old 05-17-16, 12:56 AM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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Unfortunately a man's word isn't what it used to be. I wouldn't believe any businessman until I had something in writing. And the fact that they'd still need 24 other owners to give the OK it's really just political talk.
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  #49  
Old 05-17-16, 09:22 AM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Originally Posted by brianwr112 View Post
You'd think they were overpriced for the middle-class but it seems to be a majority of their market when you attend a game. I'll usually go to 1-2 games a year but can't justify buying season tickets when it's difficult for me to make Thursday, Sunday and Monday night games (which are usually the ones I'd truly want to go to).

It seems like some owners are also concerned on whether Vegas can support a team. It's hard to come up with true estimations because there hasn't ever been a big league team there to study. When the "newness" wears off will their still be a following. Will stadium upgrades come private funds or taxes?
So your original concern was the fans wouldn't have access to tickets because the casinos would buy them all up. Now you're questioning whether there'd be enough support at all to support a team?
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  #50  
Old 05-17-16, 09:23 AM
TylerDurden TylerDurden is offline
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Unfortunately a man's word isn't what it used to be. I wouldn't believe any businessman until I had something in writing. And the fact that they'd still need 24 other owners to give the OK it's really just political talk.
Yeah, I'm sure the city of Las Vegas would enter deal with someone involving hundreds of millions of dollars based on just their word.
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  #51  
Old 05-17-16, 09:26 AM
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  #52  
Old 05-17-16, 10:23 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by brianwr112 View Post
Unfortunately a man's word isn't what it used to be. I wouldn't believe any businessman until I had something in writing. And the fact that they'd still need 24 other owners to give the OK it's really just political talk.
Hell, I wouldn't believe anyone until ground is broke and construction starts.
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  #53  
Old 05-17-16, 07:50 PM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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Yeah, I'm sure the city of Las Vegas would enter deal with someone involving hundreds of millions of dollars based on just their word.
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  #54  
Old 05-18-16, 12:22 AM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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So your original concern was the fans wouldn't have access to tickets because the casinos would buy them all up. Now you're questioning whether there'd be enough support at all to support a team?
Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. And it's not a short term projection they'll use. If the "common local fan" can't afford to get in and become die hard early will they still want in when the novelty has worn off. It's a common practice used with business projections from what my friends tell me. The goal is to meet a perfect happy medium. Unfortunately nobody has a clue what that will be in a city such as Las Vegas. I normal city would plan for a small amount of premium seats where that number would be larger for the Vegas clientele. However once it's not hip and those clients don't want to go who pays the same price for those seats?

Look how bad the Yankees attendance is falling as an example...
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  #55  
Old 05-18-16, 09:06 AM
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Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. And it's not a short term projection they'll use. If the "common local fan" can't afford to get in and become die hard early will they still want in when the novelty has worn off. It's a common practice used with business projections from what my friends tell me. The goal is to meet a perfect happy medium. Unfortunately nobody has a clue what that will be in a city such as Las Vegas. I normal city would plan for a small amount of premium seats where that number would be larger for the Vegas clientele. However once it's not hip and those clients don't want to go who pays the same price for those seats?

Look how bad the Yankees attendance is falling as an example...
Yeah, I heard the Yankees might be contracted as a result. Good example.
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  #56  
Old 05-19-16, 12:50 AM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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Yeah, I heard the Yankees might be contracted as a result. Good example.
The Yankees are valued at the second highest franchise in the world. They can afford to make some mistakes. The Raiders are the second lowest valued franchise in the NFL. In MLB you can somewhat buy success (best players) due to there not being a salary cap. NFL you have to make smart business decisions across the board.
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  #57  
Old 05-19-16, 07:08 AM
joesports joesports is offline
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The Yankees are valued at the second highest franchise in the world. They can afford to make some mistakes. The Raiders are the second lowest valued franchise in the NFL. In MLB you can somewhat buy success (best players) due to there not being a salary cap. NFL you have to make smart business decisions across the board.
Stadium and the stadium lease are two of the more important factors in franchise value ... just look at the Cowboys, great stadium and lease (they own it) with a great fan base makes them a highly valued franchise even with the idiotic decisions Jerry Jones often makes ... right now Oakland has one of the worst stadiums and leases (and smaller fan base) which is the one of the main reasons for their low rankings in terms of value ... if the Raiders can get a great stadium and lease from either Oakland or LV (or some other city) their value would significantly increase.
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  #58  
Old 05-19-16, 08:54 AM
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Stadium and the stadium lease are two of the more important factors in franchise value ... just look at the Cowboys, great stadium and lease (they own it) with a great fan base makes them a highly valued franchise even with the idiotic decisions Jerry Jones often makes ... right now Oakland has one of the worst stadiums and leases (and smaller fan base) which is the one of the main reasons for their low rankings in terms of value ... if the Raiders can get a great stadium and lease from either Oakland or LV (or some other city) their value would significantly increase.
yup.
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  #59  
Old 05-19-16, 11:48 PM
brianwr112 brianwr112 is offline
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Umm the City of Arlington owns AT&T Stadium so??? They may have a good lease agreement but stadium deals that go to a vote have become increasingly tougher to pass due the many years of research which show these deals have no positive financial impact on the cities.
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  #60  
Old 05-20-16, 12:59 AM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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It doesn't really matter who owns the stadium. Jerry collects all the revenue from events held there. That leasing agreement is what makes the team valuable.
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