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  #361  
Old 07-13-16, 04:24 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
If they are playing under the NFHS rule code the score is recorded as 7-0.

If they are playing under OBR (official baseball rules) the score is recorded as 9-0.
Thanks.

So it goes down as:
ST Henry 7
Minster 0.

Now St Henry has to beat Parkway twice for a shot at the State ACME tournament and face Fairview (who beat out Bryan and Defiance) Saturday night.

Here is some dilemma, if you are a team, like Minster, who has a football thing on Tuesday night so you know you will forfeit the baseball game and end your season, do you bow out on Monday night to allow the other team to move on and get to the finals of the losers bracket?

St Henry really benefits because of Minster's forfeit by not having to burn a pitcher or two while Parkway kinds gets hosed that they don't get the full benefit of being in the finals on the winners bracket side.

Just curious.....


and by the bylaws of the ACME Baseball Congress, Article VIII Section 8, Minster is now subject to a one year ban of tournament play for forfeiting a tournament game.


but carry on.....I don't mean for Minster's forfeit of a game for a football practice get in the way of a fantastic and informative post about the rules of baseball....
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  #362  
Old 07-16-16, 07:36 AM
Voice Voice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
Thanks.

So it goes down as:
ST Henry 7
Minster 0.

Now St Henry has to beat Parkway twice for a shot at the State ACME tournament and face Fairview (who beat out Bryan and Defiance) Saturday night.

Here is some dilemma, if you are a team, like Minster, who has a football thing on Tuesday night so you know you will forfeit the baseball game and end your season, do you bow out on Monday night to allow the other team to move on and get to the finals of the losers bracket?

St Henry really benefits because of Minster's forfeit by not having to burn a pitcher or two while Parkway kinds gets hosed that they don't get the full benefit of being in the finals on the winners bracket side.

Just curious.....


and by the bylaws of the ACME Baseball Congress, Article VIII Section 8, Minster is now subject to a one year ban of tournament play for forfeiting a tournament game.


but carry on.....I don't mean for Minster's forfeit of a game for a football practice get in the way of a fantastic and informative post about the rules of baseball....
So will the OHSAA be taking a look at this also? Mandatory practice out of season is against the rules.
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  #363  
Old 07-16-16, 08:42 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by Voice View Post
So will the OHSAA be taking a look at this also? Mandatory practice out of season is against the rules.
Nothing will come of it. I did talk to one dad who said he did report it and other parents were mad as well but are apprehensive to say anything because all it would do is hurt the team and if the staff found out they make hold it against them. I think you are local to me . . . Did you read in the paper how excited the kids were who did get to advance? Ashamed that the minster football coach took that opportunity away from those kids to oak it. I was lucky enough to play in that tournament 3 times and it was a blast. The hype. The scouts. Everything. I know at least 2 pro scouts going to be there today along with a few colleges as well
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  #364  
Old 07-20-16, 02:28 PM
cone cone is offline
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A base running question. Runner on first , ball hit to shortstop who flips to the second baseman for an out, 2nd basemen then throws to first. The runner from 1st in a straight line from 1st to 2nd gets hit by the throw. The ball goes out of play. The runner did nothing wrong, but the throw hit him. Is the runner out or not for interferance
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  #365  
Old 07-20-16, 03:41 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cone View Post
A base running question. Runner on first , ball hit to shortstop who flips to the second baseman for an out, 2nd basemen then throws to first. The runner from 1st in a straight line from 1st to 2nd gets hit by the throw. The ball goes out of play. The runner did nothing wrong, but the throw hit him. Is the runner out or not for interferance
This could cause quite a discussion, involving both fans and umpires because it's a mis-understood and mis-interpreted rule........

If the runner is in the vicinity of the base, then he has interfered by violating the Force Play Slide Rule. (if he slides, he must slide in a direct line to the base...... if he chooses not to slide, he cannot hinder the fielder in an attempt to make this play)

If he's say, halfway between the bags, you have a thrown ball out of play and the batter-runner being awarded second base. Provided he did noting intentional to cause contact with the ball.

The $64K question being, where is in the "vicinity of the base" located?

Still think our job is easy?
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  #366  
Old 07-28-16, 10:29 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Not a rules question,just more of an umpire question.

At a recent Great Lakes Collegiate League game the base umpire would almost 'escort' the relief pitcher in from the bullpen. When a change was made he would jog down toward the BP area and then walk the pitcher into the mound.

I go to a few GLCL games a year and I never recalled seeing that. First time I thought it was coincidence but he did it for all 3 changes.
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  #367  
Old 07-28-16, 11:34 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
Not a rules question,just more of an umpire question.

At a recent Great Lakes Collegiate League game the base umpire would almost 'escort' the relief pitcher in from the bullpen. When a change was made he would jog down toward the BP area and then walk the pitcher into the mound.

I go to a few GLCL games a year and I never recalled seeing that. First time I thought it was coincidence but he did it for all 3 changes.
Did it matter which team made the change?
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  #368  
Old 07-28-16, 12:04 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Did it matter which team made the change?
Both teams. I first noticed it as he was in the A slot and saw him jogging across the diamond. I honestly thought he was going to head out the gate and go the restroom actually! Then the next time it was the other team who was down the first base line and he just walked him in to dirt area.

Just had never seen it before.

I know most of the local guys that I would have asked afterwards, but they get totally diff umps for the GLCL games of cours.e
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  #369  
Old 07-29-16, 06:27 AM
hey_blue_17 hey_blue_17 is offline
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The GLSCL uses NCAA umpires (me being one of them). NFHS rules have various speed up rules (this is not one of them), and so does the NCAA. They are referred to as "pace of play" initiatives. There are many and there is no need to go into them here, but this is one of the things umpires do to keep it moving. Since there are different rules for defensive trips, with the second trip to the same pitcher in an inning requiring his removal, many coaches will come to the mound, talk, and then make the change. The trip is viewed a bit differently at our level in that yes the pitcher has to leave, but the coach still gets a defensive conference. The umpire on the bases (or U1/U3 in 3 and 4 man) will go get the pitcher to make sure he gets in the game and hustles. Then he can get his warmup throws going and we can stay on pace. Keep in mind too that NCAA rules are not 1 minute between innings, but at a minimum 90 seconds and in some cases more depending on whether or not the game is streamed (which all GLSCL are) or televised (i.e. Division I games).
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  #370  
Old 07-29-16, 10:20 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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That's why I asked the "did he do it for both teams" question..... (I've worked with guys who say "not doing that")

Pace of play is a big issue (at all levels) and it's one way to help move things along.
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  #371  
Old 07-29-16, 11:05 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Excellent answers.
Thanks. I go to 4-5 GLCL games a year and that was the first I had noticed it.

Pace of play in these game usually is pretty quick.
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  #372  
Old 08-10-16, 03:54 PM
AnUnbiasedOpinion AnUnbiasedOpinion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
This could cause quite a discussion, involving both fans and umpires because it's a mis-understood and mis-interpreted rule........

If the runner is in the vicinity of the base, then he has interfered by violating the Force Play Slide Rule. (if he slides, he must slide in a direct line to the base...... if he chooses not to slide, he cannot hinder the fielder in an attempt to make this play)

If he's say, halfway between the bags, you have a thrown ball out of play and the batter-runner being awarded second base. Provided he did noting intentional to cause contact with the ball.

The $64K question being, where is in the "vicinity of the base" located?

Still think our job is easy?
I don't see how vicinity is a factor in this scenario. Going by the original description there was no contact, illegal or otherwise, and the runner did not intentionally interfere with the thrown ball. If that's the case, I have nothing. The runner did nothing to illegally hinder the fielder. Am
I missing something?
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  #373  
Old 08-10-16, 04:49 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnbiasedOpinion View Post
I don't see how vicinity is a factor in this scenario. Going by the original description there was no contact, illegal or otherwise, and the runner did not intentionally interfere with the thrown ball. If that's the case, I have nothing. The runner did nothing to illegally hinder the fielder. Am
I missing something?
The OP didn't specify how close the runner was to the base. If the runner is 'in the vicinity' and gets hit by the throw there is an out, but if is like halfway...no out.

That is what I go tout of it.
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  #374  
Old 08-10-16, 08:02 PM
AnUnbiasedOpinion AnUnbiasedOpinion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
The OP didn't specify how close the runner was to the base. If the runner is 'in the vicinity' and gets hit by the throw there is an out, but if is like halfway...no out.

That is what I go tout of it.
My read of the rule is that the runner cannot illegally alter the action of the fielder. But there is nothing illegal about running between first and second, with no contact with the fielder and no intentional contact with the thrown ball, regardless of vicinity to the base. AllSport12, an missing a rule or something in the casebook?
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  #375  
Old 08-10-16, 08:07 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
The OP didn't specify how close the runner was to the base. If the runner is 'in the vicinity' and gets hit by the throw there is an out, but if is like halfway...no out.

That is what I go tout of it.
That's correct....

I used the "vicinity" example because no location was specified.
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  #376  
Old 10-24-16, 01:44 PM
sig4969 sig4969 is offline
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What is your call?

One out runners on second and first
Runners on second and first leave early
Pitcher step off the rubber, and throw to third base.
Runner A going from second to third stop and start to return to second.
Runner B going from first to second is on second,
Runner A is trying to return to second is interfere by shortstop...
Third baseman throws the ball to second base man that tags runner out

What is your call? Where do you put the runners?

Last edited by sig4969; 10-24-16 at 03:34 PM.
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  #377  
Old 10-24-16, 01:55 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Need to be a bit more specific on what happened.....

Did the runners leave early prior to a catch/touch?
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  #378  
Old 10-24-16, 03:33 PM
sig4969 sig4969 is offline
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no catch the pitcher had the ball and step off the rubber........
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  #379  
Old 10-24-16, 04:01 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sig4969 View Post
no catch the pitcher had the ball and step off the rubber........
SOme believe that to be a balk and say you cannot throw to a base that isnt occupied, but that is not true. Pitcher can do that to stop an advancing runner.

WIll let allsports answer it officially.......but if the SS inferfered with the runner going back to second that runner should get third base....and if that other runner is on second then.....well........runners at 2nd and 3rd.


Lets see what the official ruling is......
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  #380  
Old 10-24-16, 11:07 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sig4969 View Post
One out runners on second and first
Runners on second and first leave early
Pitcher step off the rubber, and throw to third base.
Runner A going from second to third stop and start to return to second.
Runner B going from first to second is on second,
Runner A is trying to return to second is interfere by shortstop...
Third baseman throws the ball to second base man that tags runner out

What is your call? Where do you put the runners?
The action by the shortstop is defined as obstruction. (the defense obstructs the offense.....the offense interferes with the defense)

The penalty for obstruction under NFHS rules is awarding the runner a minimum of one base past the base he legally occupied at the time of the obstruction. Since he was obstructed between second and third, and he legally had obtained second base, that runner is awarded third base and the runner from first remains at second.

As thavoice indicated (correctly) it is not a balk for throwing to an unoccupied base provided that throw is to make a legitimate attempt to put out a runner.
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  #381  
Old 10-25-16, 11:04 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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I would like to know what was called, and what sig thought should have been called.
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  #382  
Old 03-23-17, 10:14 AM
J.R. Swish J.R. Swish is offline
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Here is one about lineup....your best pitcher is also your DH usually. When he is pitching can he be listed as pitcher and DH then when he comes out as pitcher can he remain in game as DH for the new pitcher? I guess you could do that at any position really but just using pitcher to illustrate it. He is basically the DH for himself to begin with.
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  #383  
Old 03-23-17, 12:07 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R. Swish View Post
Here is one about lineup....your best pitcher is also your DH usually. When he is pitching can he be listed as pitcher and DH then when he comes out as pitcher can he remain in game as DH for the new pitcher? I guess you could do that at any position really but just using pitcher to illustrate it. He is basically the DH for himself to begin with.
You cannot be a position player and a DH at the same time under NFHS rules.
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  #384  
Old 03-31-17, 11:55 AM
sig4969 sig4969 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
The action by the shortstop is defined as obstruction. (the defense obstructs the offense.....the offense interferes with the defense)

The penalty for obstruction under NFHS rules is awarding the runner a minimum of one base past the base he legally occupied at the time of the obstruction. Since he was obstructed between second and third, and he legally had obtained second base, that runner is awarded third base and the runner from first remains at second.

As thavoice indicated (correctly) it is not a balk for throwing to an unoccupied base provided that throw is to make a legitimate attempt to put out a runner.

the player is not pitcher if he step off the rubber
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  #385  
Old 03-31-17, 12:41 PM
tallmadge H2 dad tallmadge H2 dad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
SOme believe that to be a balk and say you cannot throw to a base that isnt occupied, but that is not true. Pitcher can do that to stop an advancing runner.

WIll let allsports answer it officially.......but if the SS inferfered with the runner going back to second that runner should get third base....and if that other runner is on second then.....well........runners at 2nd and 3rd.


Lets see what the official ruling is......
I agree with this
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  #386  
Old 03-31-17, 02:11 PM
USA70PP USA70PP is offline
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Off track, but I find it interesting that a forfeit score for baseball is either 7-0 or 9-0 while a forfeit score for basketball is 2-0 and football 1-0 or 2-0
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  #387  
Old 04-01-17, 08:01 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by sig4969 View Post
the player is not pitcher if he step off the rubber
True....

the point that was being made was that it was not a balk even if he didn't step off the rubber.
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  #388  
Old 04-02-17, 12:26 AM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R. Swish View Post
Here is one about lineup....your best pitcher is also your DH usually. When he is pitching can he be listed as pitcher and DH then when he comes out as pitcher can he remain in game as DH for the new pitcher? I guess you could do that at any position really but just using pitcher to illustrate it. He is basically the DH for himself to begin with.
I hope you're confusing a NCAA rule with the NFHS rule.

Of the three promiment rule codes (NFHS/NCAA/MLB), the only one in which you can have a P/DH being the same person with separate duties is NCAA.

In NFHS, you can have a 10th player be the "DH" for anyone of the nine field players. Said field player being "DH'ed" for cannot bat, the DH cannot play a field position; if either condition happens, the DH has been vacated, and the lineup is down to a "straight nine". If the DH goes into the field, the player that was being DH'ed for must come off the field, but does have re-entry rights as a substitute (if he was a starter); if the player being "DH'ed" for comes to bat, it must be as a pinch hitter for the DH, and the DH now can only come in as a substitute with his re-entry right (assuming he was a starter).
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  #389  
Old 04-04-17, 03:47 AM
Gwave12 Gwave12 is offline
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Not sure if this is an ask the ump question or more of a does anyone know the answer question? Team A is beating team B. Team a has been station to station since the first inning and Team B hasn't been able to get anybody out and the score is getting out of hand. Team B decides to forfeit after 3 innings. The starting pitcher for team A goes 2.2 innings and gives way to a relief pitcher to finish the final .1. Who gets the win? I can only find the rule stating 4 innings for a 7 inn game and 3 innings for a 5 inn game.
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  #390  
Old 04-04-17, 06:31 AM
fortfan fortfan is offline
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I would think if it was a forfeit that no stats count.
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