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  #451  
Old 03-04-17, 04:38 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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I agree that we're never going to have the talent Moeller has, but I completely disagree that these kids aren't capable of being what I describe. They already are.

Everyone of the kids that play at Elder has played as much basketball as kids at other places (with the exception of maybe Moeller, who are pulling in prep all-stars).

When they get to Elder, they are put into a system and the system rules the day (and individual creativity, athleticism, and shot making ability are taken away). I think it's limiting, but that's my opinion.
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  #452  
Old 03-04-17, 04:42 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Then go find them, no more bs excuses. The staff needs to find out which kids can ball, get in touch with the marketing department and have them reach out to the kid. Last time I checked, that's totally within the rules. Get the kid to the Open House, have him shadow and if he decides to go elsewhere, fine. However, yr after yr teams built of averaged sized Guards isn't going to cut it.

And every good team has a Defensive specialist. Look at Duke. They've got Matt Jones who plays primarily for his Defense. He can still score, but he's looking to get the ball to Kennard or Allen first.
Once again...read. It's fine they have defensive specialists, but those defensive specialists that only play defense further limit a putrid offensive team.

I don't see a whole lot of offensive options coming up the ranks with the exception of one kid that plays on the freshman team. And I don't see the offensive philosophy changing.

My guess if these kids played pick-up ball, a whole bunch of them could score. What happens to them when they get into the Elder system?

I am probably one of the few on here who agree with you when you say that Elder takes pride in losing with kids with toughness. It's kind of annoying actually. I think it sells our kids short big time.
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  #453  
Old 03-04-17, 04:53 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
I agree that we're never going to have the talent Moeller has, but I completely disagree that these kids aren't capable of being what I describe. They already are.

Everyone of the kids that play at Elder has played as much basketball as kids at other places (with the exception of maybe Moeller, who are pulling in prep all-stars).

When they get to Elder, they are put into a system and the system rules the day (and individual creativity, athleticism, and shot making ability are taken away). I think it's limiting, but that's my opinion.
You just said in an earlier post you didn't have a problem with their Offense. Quit flip flopping.
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  #454  
Old 03-04-17, 04:58 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by trey2k View Post

I am probably one of the few on here who agree with you when you say that Elder takes pride in losing with kids with toughness. It's kind of annoying actually. I think it sells our kids short big time.
The people who feel that way are idiots who have likely never accomplished much, so they try to spin failure into a positive any way they can.

There's truth to a lot of what's said about other programs, but fugg it. Elder never uses to be about excuses until they started losing. We need to stop acting like Elder athletics are special, they're not anymore. And until more people wake up and see the bs, this will keep happening.
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  #455  
Old 03-04-17, 04:59 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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The actual x's and o's they run are no different than what anyone else does. The problem is the 3-4 role players out there at once. Less focus on defense, more focus on guys that can put the ball in the hole.

You have a better chance of seeing the floor in an Elder uniform if you can play great d as opposed to a kid that can score, but has some deficiencies on defense. It's always been that way. And I think that hurts them, and I think there are plenty of other kids in the program who could contribute to its success if it wasn't this way.

The only exception to this was the '93 state champ team...they just went out and balled.
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  #456  
Old 03-04-17, 05:18 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
The people who feel that way are idiots who have likely never accomplished much, so they try to spin failure into a positive any way they can.

.
I think the fierce loyalty to Schoenfeld has a lot to do with this, but they would never say it. His coaches love him, but I'm pretty sure none of them would emulate his style (his basketball style, not him as a person - Coach Schoenfeld is a great human being) if they were in charge. Maybe they would...I don't know.

Last edited by trey2k; 03-04-17 at 05:46 PM.
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  #457  
Old 03-04-17, 06:20 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
I think the fierce loyalty to Schoenfeld has a lot to do with this, but they would never say it. His coaches love him, but I'm pretty sure none of them would emulate his style (his basketball style, not him as a person - Coach Schoenfeld is a great human being) if they were in charge. Maybe they would...I don't know.
I believe Austing ran the same Offense at FF. Coaching wasn't an issue yesterday or this season. Last night, WH seemed to come up with the most critical 50/50 balls, I don't have a box score, but WH had to have been at least 80% from the line, Elder was probably closer to 60. When you run such a limited Offense, you can't afford to miss points from the line.
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  #458  
Old 03-04-17, 07:16 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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I have no doubt the coach's knowledge of x's and o's far exceeds anyone's here. But you will never convince me that out of a school of nearly 1,000 boys who play at a school with a history of sports success, that you can't find more than 2 kids per team that can consistently put the ball in the hoop.

They are out there, whether they are on the bench or have given up on trying out. A lot were lost over the years with that feeling of helplessness that some other posters have described as they felt they would never get a solid look. And most of them were right.

There's no reason Elder basketball should be this mediocre. You're going to tell me Walnut Hills and Cooper and Oak Hills and LaSalle have different types of kids than us? This is where I think politics plays a role in on-field success.
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  #459  
Old 03-04-17, 09:00 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
I have no doubt the coach's knowledge of x's and o's far exceeds anyone's here. But you will never convince me that out of a school of nearly 1,000 boys who play at a school with a history of sports success, that you can't find more than 2 kids per team that can consistently put the ball in the hoop.

They are out there, whether they are on the bench or have given up on trying out. A lot were lost over the years with that feeling of helplessness that some other posters have described as they felt they would never get a solid look. And most of them were right.

There's no reason Elder basketball should be this mediocre. You're going to tell me Walnut Hills and Cooper and Oak Hills and LaSalle have different types of kids than us? This is where I think politics plays a role in on-field success.
I agree they shouldn't be consistently mediocre. And I always laugh at the morons who want to play the "underdog" card when Elder has over 900 boys. They need kids who are primarily bball players. The Frosh team that went unbeaten lost a few key players who decided to focus on football.

Mosely is the only player I can think of who was a stud football player that decided to focus on bball
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  #460  
Old 03-19-17, 11:12 AM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Proof the OHSAA needs a shot clock, keep in mind this was a regional final:

Moe- 38

LS- 32
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  #461  
Old 03-19-17, 06:23 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Proof the OHSAA needs a shot clock, keep in mind this was a regional final:

Moe- 38

LS- 32
It ain't gonna happen, so get over it.
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  #462  
Old 03-19-17, 08:36 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
It ain't gonna happen, so get over it.
I know, but God GCL bball is so bad. Hopefully this was squealy Dan's last game.
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  #463  
Old 03-19-17, 08:44 PM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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Squeally Dan
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  #464  
Old 03-20-17, 10:12 AM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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Shot clock would work wonders for high school hoops, especially in the GCL...one can hope.
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  #465  
Old 03-20-17, 10:19 AM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
Shot clock would work wonders for high school hoops, especially in the GCL...one can hope.
Seems like the past few years are where it's gotten out of hand.
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  #466  
Old 03-26-17, 10:31 AM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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What a barnburner of a title game... 39-38 Jackson. The level of play in this state seems to be regressing big time. Just looking back at Elder's archives, there were higher scoring games in the '72 and '73 title games... before there was even a 3 point line.
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  #467  
Old 04-05-17, 09:19 AM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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Post in the basketball forum (not by me) says LaSalle may be going after Austing for their HC job. No I don't have proof, since you get yelled at for no proof in here...just the messenger.

Interesting development...Austing is a great coach, but isn't he the obvious choice to replace Schoenfeld?
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  #468  
Old 04-05-17, 09:23 AM
Insanity5 Insanity5 is offline
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Austing is not leaving
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  #469  
Old 04-05-17, 09:30 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by Insanity5 View Post
Austing is not leaving
Can't see him leaving either, not with his kid there and him basically in line to be the next HC.
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  #470  
Old 04-05-17, 09:33 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Coach Joe is going to coach the west team in the 2016 SWOBCA All Star Game. JS will also have two Panthers on the squad in seniors, Deshawn Mosley and Shaun Sullivan. https://mobile.twitter.com/i/web/sta...55042905784321
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  #471  
Old 04-05-17, 12:25 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
Post in the basketball forum (not by me) says LaSalle may be going after Austing for their HC job. No I don't have proof, since you get yelled at for no proof in here...just the messenger.

Interesting development...Austing is a great coach, but isn't he the obvious choice to replace Schoenfeld?
I'm pretty sure Goede (sp?), Fleming's long time Asst, is going to get it. And can't your pvssified melodramatic shtick. If you can't understand why a rumor of this nature is less damaging than what #politics was spreading, you're dumber than I thought.

Last edited by Descartes; 04-05-17 at 12:39 PM.
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  #472  
Old 04-05-17, 12:40 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
Can't see him leaving either, not with his kid there and him basically in line to be the next HC.
He's also a JV & WR coach for football. The only way I can fathom LS luring him away is by offering an obscene amount of $, which given the shape they're in financially, shouldn't be feasible. My understanding is Austing was always supposed to replace JS when he decided to retire. If he decides to leave before that, Espy should go all in to get Ruthsaz at Cov Cath.
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  #473  
Old 04-05-17, 12:53 PM
Don Flamenco Don Flamenco is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
My understanding is Austing was always supposed to replace JS when he decided to retire.
The question is, will this ever actually happen? I've been hearing this stuff was going to happen since I was back in high school which was nearly 20 years ago. And there are a lot of ways for GCL schools to pay a lot more dollars to coaches than what the Archdiocese dictates. Elder may not do it that way but the others do.
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  #474  
Old 04-05-17, 01:22 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Originally Posted by Don Flamenco View Post
The question is, will this ever actually happen? I've been hearing this stuff was going to happen since I was back in high school which was nearly 20 years ago. And there are a lot of ways for GCL schools to pay a lot more dollars to coaches than what the Archdiocese dictates. Elder may not do it that way but the others do.
I don't know when JS will retire, he's pushing 60, isn't he? However, if you pay attention to huddles during Tos, it's almost always Austing drawing up a play or delivering out instructions. I have a very, very hard time believing there's any truth to Austing even considering leaving, especially for LS.
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  #475  
Old 04-05-17, 02:21 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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There have been others on here who thought Austing wouldn't replace Joe (based on other things he'd want to do, like college coaching). No idea what's true.

I guess you never know.
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  #476  
Old 04-05-17, 02:30 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
There have been others on here who thought Austing wouldn't replace Joe (based on other things he'd want to do, like college coaching). No idea what's true.

I guess you never know.
Even if he doesn't replace, JS, can't see him bolting for LS. Austing is far too loyal to JS to make a move like that.
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  #477  
Old 04-05-17, 02:42 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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Unless Joe plans to stay for a while longer...maybe Joe gives him the OK to take a look.
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  #478  
Old 04-05-17, 02:45 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
Unless Joe plans to stay for a while longer...maybe Joe gives him the OK to take a look.
The "ok" to go to a rival? I doubt it. There were rumors Austing was in the running for the X job, and those were unsubstantiated. Stranger things have happened, but I just don't see any truth to this.
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  #479  
Old 04-05-17, 03:20 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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Who has a good basketball program in the city that a good basketball coach would go to that isn't a rival of Elder? Hilvert went to LaSalle...what's the difference?

Seems kind of petty...we're not talking about big time college athletics here. I would hope Joe would encourage his staff members to go after decent coaching jobs if they come open and they want to be head coaches...even if it means competing against them. That's what mentors do.
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  #480  
Old 04-05-17, 03:26 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Entirely different situation regarding Hilvert/Austing.
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