Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority  

Go Back   Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority > Boys HS Sports > Football

Hello Guest!
Take a minute to register, It's 100% FREE! What are you waiting for?
Register Now
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #151  
Old 06-03-15, 06:06 PM
Mikefln Mikefln is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: 08-26-07
Posts: 85
Mikefln is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGuirk View Post
So, some people think it's a good idea, some people think it's a bad idea. And no one can get past their pathological need to insult to actually discuss the nuances of what would and would not be considered successful. Very enlightening five pages here.
I defined what I think successful for Canton is, I said 10-15% ROI. With that said that is assuming Canton is only investing a small amount. If they are putting up half the cost then they better get half the revenue.

Now lets talk of where these revenue are suppose to come from. We know about the ceremony and game and museum. Let's give a little bump there in attendance. They say they want concerts there. Ok who are they going to book, that will attract people from Pittsburgh, Erie, Buffalo, Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Detriot, and Dayton as I am guessing this is the target market area? What major acts will be booked in Canton that would not go to those cities first? That means smaller bands and acts that are past their prime. Are those types of acts going to draw mass people, especially when those act play at casinos close to the target marketing area?

Now you have a mall for shopping and restaurants. Ok I can see this being desirable and improves quality of life, but it might attract people from Akron, Alliance, but people from the target market area won't travel just for that.

That leaves the NFL experience theme park. I can see this being an attraction the first few years. The problem with it as they state that they already do this at every SB location, is that it is something nice to try once but not something to do year after year. the question will be will people tell other friends not some much that it was fun, but if the activity was worth driving 2+ hours to do? You are competing against kennywood, cedar point, Kings island, is sea world still open? Again I see this aspect working initially, but the sustainability is in question.

You can down play all I said, but those are legimate conceals leaders should be asking.
  #152  
Old 06-03-15, 06:42 PM
unclebob unclebob is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 07-20-06
Location: Dantes 1st Circle
Posts: 3,542
unclebob is an unknown quantity at this point
So an additional 40 to 70 million annually would make it a sound outlay in your estimation...numbers that I don't see as feasible btw...
  #153  
Old 06-03-15, 07:09 PM
arizonawildcat arizonawildcat is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 02-13-09
Posts: 6,819
arizonawildcat will become famous soon enough
Maybe others have misunderstood my position, but I have no problems with the idea of the project. But when people start throwing around the number of "billions" potentially flowing into the Canton area, I have to scream, "Be serious. Get real." I think that the project could be considered a success if the taxpayers of Canton break even on the development. And that includes such terms as others have pointed out as "return on investment" and "opportunity costs" that seem to be foreign concepts to those on here who have already swallowed the kool-aid and are even demanding a second helping.
  #154  
Old 06-03-15, 07:34 PM
Mikefln Mikefln is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: 08-26-07
Posts: 85
Mikefln is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by arizonawildcat View Post
Maybe others have misunderstood my position, but I have no problems with the idea of the project. But when people start throwing around the number of "billions" potentially flowing into the Canton area, I have to scream, "Be serious. Get real." I think that the project could be considered a success if the taxpayers of Canton break even on the development. And that includes such terms as others have pointed out as "return on investment" and "opportunity costs" that seem to be foreign concepts to those on here who have already swallowed the kool-aid and are even demanding a second helping.
Thank you again AW. With the risk to the city I would want to do better than break even, but this project will give a better quality of life to lots of folks so I can see that breaking even is still ok. I just want people to be realistic with their expectations.
  #155  
Old 06-03-15, 07:51 PM
Summa Summa is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 03-30-08
Posts: 1,834
Summa is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikefln View Post
Now lets talk of where these revenue are suppose to come from. We know about the ceremony and game and museum. Let's give a little bump there in attendance. They say they want concerts there. Ok who are they going to book, that will attract people from Pittsburgh, Erie, Buffalo, Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Detriot, and Dayton as I am guessing this is the target market area? What major acts will be booked in Canton that would not go to those cities first?
Erie, Pa? Really?

Erie has a metro population of 280,000. Canton has a metro population of 404,000. Akron-Canton metro is about 1.1 million. NE Ohio (Cleveland-Akron-Canton-Youngstown), which is all basically an easy hour drive to Canton at most, is well over 4,000,000 people. The vast majority of people will drive an hour to see a concert. Getting big bands to a venue is up to a promoter and marketing team. Many big concerts are in out of the way areas. Canton is not in an out of the way area. It is in a relatively large population area. If the stadium is built in a way to be event friendly, not just football friendly, it will get some decent concerts.

A family member of mine lives in Canton and works in Cleveland. He has many coworkers that have driven to Canton for concerts at the Palace and to eat and drink at Gervasi and downtown. People no longer drive to Canton to go to Belden Village. Belden Village is a dump with buildings that have absolutely no architectural value, mostly low end chain stores and chain restaurants that every decent sized population area already has. To say that people won't drive to Canton for something worthwhile is simply not true.

Coon Caulking had all the naysayers with the Onesto restoration to higher end condos/apartments. Guess what, it is pretty much full.

Don't get me wrong I am also skeptical as to the projections, but Stark County has a long history of being backwards and way behind the times. The area should do its due diligence, but this project, even if it is half as big, is a great thing for the area.

Last edited by Summa; 06-04-15 at 08:36 AM.
  #156  
Old 06-03-15, 08:29 PM
The Butler's Avatar
The Butler The Butler is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 11-02-02
Location: Perry Twp., Stark Co.
Posts: 8,471
The Butler is on a distinguished road
Since so many of you seem to be hung up on the numbers, here is the slide shown at the presser from the economic impact study. Sorry it's sideways.

  #157  
Old 06-03-15, 08:48 PM
Oil Filter Oil Filter is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 11-03-02
Location: They call me ThreadKiller
Posts: 18,318
Oil Filter is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Butler View Post
Since so many of you seem to be hung up on the numbers, here is the slide shown at the presser from the economic impact study.
It has been proposed that $250 million in local money be spent on construction. In 10 years, the county is projected to recoup $88 million from that construction.

Hmm...
  #158  
Old 06-03-15, 09:03 PM
The Butler's Avatar
The Butler The Butler is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 11-02-02
Location: Perry Twp., Stark Co.
Posts: 8,471
The Butler is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oil Filter View Post
It has been proposed that $250 million in local money be spent on construction. In 10 years, the county is projected to recoup $88 million from that construction.

Hmm...
You were the first to bring up that figure. Only in this thread have I seen it suggested that public funds pay for half of the on-site costs.
  #159  
Old 06-03-15, 10:00 PM
Oil Filter Oil Filter is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 11-03-02
Location: They call me ThreadKiller
Posts: 18,318
Oil Filter is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Butler View Post
You were the first to bring up that figure. Only in this thread have I seen it suggested that public funds pay for half of the on-site costs.
No, Crusaders brought it up:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
You have to spend money to make money, and really, a few hundred million to improve something we all KNOW is going to be around for a long time is a rare thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
The city will benefit far more from it than the NFL, so why should the NFL foot most of it?
Everyone else is ridiculing the absurdity of that suggestion.

As for how much the public will eventually be expected to "invest", who knows? So far, $15 million of the $25 million allocated to the stadium is public funds. The other $10 million is essentially naming rights. And no one else (e.g. the NFL) appears to be on the hook for anything.
  #160  
Old 06-03-15, 11:34 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 09-06-04
Location: Not Cincinnati
Posts: 34,799
Crusaders is on a distinguished road
In that hypothetical, the city would spend $250million to give the area a $15billion jolt. Maybe they wouldn't make their money back from taxes for 20 years, but with that kind of production more things would come and the overall benefit to the area would make it a success. However, am I saying Canton should be on the hook for that much? No, I'm not. And I don't expect them to be.

You need to stop contradicting yourself. You're against the city spending money and against the NFL spending money and thus taking money out of the area? You're the definition of a NIMBY.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
  #161  
Old 06-04-15, 12:54 AM
Oil Filter Oil Filter is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 11-03-02
Location: They call me ThreadKiller
Posts: 18,318
Oil Filter is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
In that hypothetical, the city would spend $250million to give the area a $15billion jolt.
That would be an ROI of 240%. Let's put that in context. An ROI of 10% is good. An ROI of 15% and you're buying drinks for everybody. 240% is lottery country.

Ain't happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
You're against the city spending money and against the NFL spending money and thus taking money out of the area?
Both your assertion and your conclusion are incorrect.

Quelle surprise.
  #162  
Old 06-04-15, 01:03 AM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 09-06-04
Location: Not Cincinnati
Posts: 34,799
Crusaders is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oil Filter View Post
That would be an ROI of 240%. Let's put that in context. An ROI of 10% is good. An ROI of 15% and you're buying drinks for everybody. 240% is lottery country.

Ain't happening.


Both your assertion and your conclusion are incorrect.

Quelle surprise.
Maybe, maybe not. Might be only half as successful. Or 1/3. Still would make it worth it.

No, it's absolutely correct. You've been pretty clearly anti-anything about this project from the beginning. Just admit it, you'd be happiest if it never started.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
  #163  
Old 06-04-15, 01:51 AM
Oil Filter Oil Filter is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 11-03-02
Location: They call me ThreadKiller
Posts: 18,318
Oil Filter is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
Maybe, maybe not. Might be only half as successful. Or 1/3. Still would make it worth it.
It won't be half as successful. Or 1/3. And at some point, it won't be worth it.

Reality will be closer to the latter than the former.
  #164  
Old 06-04-15, 04:30 AM
unclebob unclebob is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 07-20-06
Location: Dantes 1st Circle
Posts: 3,542
unclebob is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikefln View Post
Thank you again AW. With the risk to the city I would want to do better than break even, but this project will give a better quality of life to lots of folks so I can see that breaking even is still ok. I just want people to be realistic with their expectations.
Call me silly but I'd rather see that money spent on roads like swiss cheese and bridges that shed concrete...
  #165  
Old 06-04-15, 04:40 AM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 09-06-04
Location: Not Cincinnati
Posts: 34,799
Crusaders is on a distinguished road
Need to think about tearing out roads and removing bridges where we can. Canton isn't as populated or wealthy as it once was, yet it covers more land than ever. This is not good. They really do need to consider doing what many cities around the country are doing and forbid new roads from being built. If we can't maintain what we have, building more is irresponsible.

To help generate the revenue needed to fill those holes, repair those bridges, and repave/rebrick streets, things like this also need to be funded. Canton needs both.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
  #166  
Old 06-04-15, 12:15 PM
Raymo Raymo is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 12-30-09
Location: PRO FOOTBALL HOF CITY
Posts: 4,791
Raymo is on a distinguished road
This has gotten so far off the path,you guy's are really something.
  #167  
Old 06-04-15, 01:12 PM
McGuirk McGuirk is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 10-31-01
Posts: 615
McGuirk
So is the city ACTUALLY putting up 250 million? Cuz that sounds just as kooky as the revenue projections.
  #168  
Old 06-04-15, 04:35 PM
longtime1sttime longtime1sttime is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 09-11-03
Location: Massillon, Ohio
Posts: 8,704
longtime1sttime
Here is a history of Fawcett, including an article on the dedication in 1938.
http://www.cantonrep.com/article/201...ORTS/150609973


The Baseball Hall of Fame (according to their Wikipedia page) has averaged 315-thousand people annually since 2009. I understand the communities are different and football is currently more popular than baseball. Just providing the number.

Last edited by longtime1sttime; 06-04-15 at 06:02 PM.
  #169  
Old 06-04-15, 06:01 PM
longtime1sttime longtime1sttime is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 09-11-03
Location: Massillon, Ohio
Posts: 8,704
longtime1sttime
I understand many people don't read the local papers on a regular basis. Here are the two latest articles (in a series) on the Hall of Fame Village project.

"PART 5: Becoming the capital of American youth football"
http://www.indeonline.com/article/20...ORTS/150609950

"PART 6: Luring legends to the Landing"
http://www.indeonline.com/article/20...09947/1994/NEW
  #170  
Old 06-11-15, 12:01 PM
Raymo Raymo is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 12-30-09
Location: PRO FOOTBALL HOF CITY
Posts: 4,791
Raymo is on a distinguished road
I hope the HOF has the check from the Benson family, court battle not going so well.
  #171  
Old 06-11-15, 12:56 PM
MassillonMike MassillonMike is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 06-05-15
Posts: 282
MassillonMike is on a distinguished road
I didn't see it covered in here or anywhere else but does anyone have an idea of when they're supposedly tearing down the visitors stands... if that's even going to be happening? Thanks.
  #172  
Old 06-11-15, 01:38 PM
ohiopup ohiopup is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 05-07-01
Location: Grove City
Posts: 7,922
ohiopup is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassillonMike View Post
I didn't see it covered in here or anywhere else but does anyone have an idea of when they're supposedly tearing down the visitors stands... if that's even going to be happening? Thanks.
The orginal time table (which is now a year behind) was that razing
( V stands) was to start the Monday (?) after the HOF game.

:>---
  #173  
Old 06-11-15, 01:48 PM
MassillonMike MassillonMike is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 06-05-15
Posts: 282
MassillonMike is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohiopup View Post
The orginal time table (which is now a year behind) was that razing
( V stands) was to start the Monday (?) after the HOF game.

:>---
Thanks man. Should make for an interesting Massillon-McK game trying to put people everywhere haha.
  #174  
Old 06-11-15, 01:58 PM
DaveDawg's Avatar
DaveDawg DaveDawg is offline
Bulldogs, Buckeyes & Browns!
 
Join Date: 03-25-05
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 1,995
DaveDawg is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to DaveDawg
The north stands will close after HOF game and will remain closed for the season. Temporary seating will be available for game with Massillon if necessary.
The north stands will be rebuilt by August 2016 for next HOF game, then the rebuild of the south stands will begin. Complete renovation to become final by August 2017.
Other than renderings that are ever changing - no architecture blueprints have been available for the public to date.
  #175  
Old 06-11-15, 02:03 PM
MassillonMike MassillonMike is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 06-05-15
Posts: 282
MassillonMike is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDawg View Post
The north stands will close after HOF game and will remain closed for the season. Temporary seating will be available for game with Massillon if necessary.
The north stands will be rebuilt by August 2016 for next HOF game, then the rebuild of the south stands will begin. Complete renovation to become final by August 2017.
Other than renderings that are ever changing - no architecture blueprints have been available for the public to date.
Much appreciated
  #176  
Old 06-11-15, 05:13 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 09-06-04
Location: Not Cincinnati
Posts: 34,799
Crusaders is on a distinguished road
If they had to could they move Mass-Mck to Infocision?

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
  #177  
Old 06-11-15, 08:40 PM
McGuirk McGuirk is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 10-31-01
Posts: 615
McGuirk
Akron plays Central Michigan at home that day, so most likely no. Fawcett will still have 15,000+ seats without the north stands, so I don't think there is any huge urgency to move it. Unneeded expense. Especially since the game will be broadcast live locally, and more than likely, on the internet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
If they had to could they move Mass-Mck to Infocision?

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
  #178  
Old 06-11-15, 09:57 PM
Sykotyk Sykotyk is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 10-12-06
Location: Lowellville, OH
Posts: 4,084
Sykotyk will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGuirk View Post
Akron plays Central Michigan at home that day, so most likely no. Fawcett will still have 15,000+ seats without the north stands, so I don't think there is any huge urgency to move it. Unneeded expense. Especially since the game will be broadcast live locally, and more than likely, on the internet.
With the game attendance dropping due to TV, 15k seats is probably enough to fill it. It might even create a run on tickets since people know they might not be able to just show up on game day to get a ticket (this of course barring two 9-0 teams playing, etc that would be a big contest).

They could also look into temporary stands along the hillside near the home stands. Or even elevated temporary bleachers atop that hill.

But, as said, 15k should be enough seats.
  #179  
Old 06-11-15, 10:45 PM
Egret Egret is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-08-09
Posts: 4,174
Egret is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykotyk View Post
With the game attendance dropping due to TV, 15k seats is probably enough to fill it. It might even create a run on tickets since people know they might not be able to just show up on game day to get a ticket (this of course barring two 9-0 teams playing, etc that would be a big contest).

They could also look into temporary stands along the hillside near the home stands. Or even elevated temporary bleachers atop that hill.

But, as said, 15k should be enough seats.
Great post. And 15K will be MORE than enough?
  #180  
Old 06-19-15, 01:46 PM
IUDOGS IUDOGS is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 07-29-01
Location: BLOOMINGTON, IN USA
Posts: 5,648
IUDOGS is on a distinguished road
Cool North Stands

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDawg View Post
The north stands will close after HOF game and will remain closed for the season. Temporary seating will be available for game with Massillon if necessary.
The north stands will be rebuilt by August 2016 for next HOF game, then the rebuild of the south stands will begin. Complete renovation to become final by August 2017.
Other than renderings that are ever changing - no architecture blueprints have been available for the public to date.
After the HOF game in early August, they will roped off the North Stands plus the North exit to the stadium will be closed also. I figure they will take out all the seating during the high school football season then tear down the North Stands.

From the newspaper it shows like the North Stands will be all Aluminum not like the North Stands is now (Concrete). I don't see where the restrooms and the concessions stands will be placed behind the North Stands.

No architecture blueprints available. WHY???????????



This is IUDOGS signing off.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:46 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Registration Booster - Powered By Dirt RIF CustUmz