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  #1  
Old 02-11-19, 01:13 AM
C'Town216 C'Town216 is offline
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Fixing the OHSAA Tournament

I was reading Matt Goul’s, of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, article regarding the district brackets throughout the PD coverage area and the ending caught my eye. As quoted by Goul in the article “As mentioned earlier, rarely is everyone happy with a bracket. Snubs are everywhere, accusations of lobbying are thrown out, etc.

Football uses a ratings system for the postseason. Granted, not every team qualifies for the OHSAA football playoffs.

Should they all qualify in basketball?

In Pennsylvania, a ratings system has been used to qualify for the postseason. It cuts down on blowouts that are prevalent in sectional first round games that take place in Ohio. Check out an example of the PIAA District 3 ratings here.

(Plus a ratings explanation here.)

More importantly than subjectivity in voting and the potential strategy pitfalls that take place, a ratings system eliminates the need to have a voting system that concludes before the regular season is finished.

A ratings system could allow teams to know where they stand as the season progresses and count all of it.

I repeat, the entire season.”

This concept used over in Pennsylvania could very well work over here and help make the regular season more interesting and meaningful for everyone, instead of rewarding a sub .500 team a high seed, make every team earn a right to play for the pinnacle of Ohio’s four divisions. In the next post I’ll post some ideas that could help, some may be a good concept/start, some may be far fetched, and some may be quite ridiculous. This is all opinion based and not factual just an FYI.


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Old 02-11-19, 01:55 AM
C'Town216 C'Town216 is offline
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Fixing the OHSAA State Tournament Basketball
[Can be applied to Girls basketball as well.]

* Introduce a points based system, similar to the Harbin Points System used for football, to add value to the regular season on top of the attempt to eliminate lopsided Sectional round matchups. The points system is used in Pennsylvania. Top 8 teams in their respected district make the district tournament. I’m sure Joe Eitel would love to keep track of points during basketball season as well. Voting for seeding is completely eliminated.

* Eliminate the Section Semis and Finals and rename them as District 1st round and quarter finals. No one acknowledges Sectional titles anymore as cruel as it may sound.

*Eliminate running clock rule.

* Bye rounds are eliminated. Playoffs begin the weekend after the final regular season is played.

* The return of one site “sectional”/District 1st Round and Quarterfinal games at the host districts gym with four games in two nights for the 1st round and two games in one night for the 2nd round. Game times are 6:15pm and 8pm.

* The return of District Semifinal double headers.
Same time as the District 1st and quarterfinal rounds.

* District Championship games take on Friday’s and Saturday’s all games slated to start at 7pm.

* Regional sites that host multiple divisions regionals will host an all day triple header on Saturday and Sunday of Regional week with game times of 3:30pm, 6pm, and 8pm. One ticket gets you in for every game.

* A capacity requirement for all Regional Sites being that all Regional hosts must have a 5,000+ seat venue.

* D-I Columbus Region returns to The Barn.
* D-I Akron/Toledo Region becomes Toledo Region sending the Akron half back to Cleveland.
* D-II Canton moves from Civic Center to Memorial Fieldhouse and plays Saturday night at 8pm, D-III 6pm, D-IV 3:30pm.

* OHSAA partners with participating hosts to broadcast live web casts of playoff games on a free streaming service with an OHSAA Radio broadcast used for commentary. Audio only options remain available. District Finals through State Finals are broadcasted live on TV through Ohio exclusive stations that all cable providers can access instead of exclusively to Spectrum.

* State Tournament remains on a Thursday, Friday, Saturday format. One ticket gets you into 2 games marked for day or night session.

* State Final Four games go in order:
Division IV Semis are always Session 1 and 2 Thursday day cap.
Division III Semis are always Session 3 and 4 Thursday night cap.
Division II Semis are always Session 5 and 6
Friday day cap
Division I Semis are always Session 7 and 8

*State Final Time slots go as follows:
D-IV always Session 9 12pm
D-III always Session 10 2:30pm
*Day sessions clearing intermission for night sessions.
D-II always Session 11 6:00pm
D-I always Session 12 8:30pm

*Rebrand The OHSAA State Tournament to The OHSAA Buckeye Madness State Tournament or Buckeye Madness for short. Similar to Hoosier Hysteria in Indiana.



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Old 02-11-19, 01:55 AM
C'Town216 C'Town216 is offline
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Let me know what you think, throw out some suggestions of what else can be done.


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Old 02-11-19, 05:04 AM
aztecjim aztecjim is offline
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I am in favor of using a point system. Make it so. I also think the OHSAA should drop the six district setup and go to 16 districts of 12-13 teams each. Football does it why not all the other sports?
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Old 02-11-19, 06:24 AM
D4fan D4fan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C'Town216 View Post
Fixing the OHSAA State Tournament Basketball
[Can be applied to Girls basketball as well.]

* Introduce a points based system, similar to the Harbin Points System used for football, to add value to the regular season on top of the attempt to eliminate lopsided Sectional round matchups. The points system is used in Pennsylvania. Top 8 teams in their respected district make the district tournament. I’m sure Joe Eitel would love to keep track of points during basketball season as well. Voting for seeding is completely eliminated.

* Eliminate the Section Semis and Finals and rename them as District 1st round and quarter finals. No one acknowledges Sectional titles anymore as cruel as it may sound.

*Eliminate running clock rule.

* Bye rounds are eliminated. Playoffs begin the weekend after the final regular season is played.

* The return of one site “sectional”/District 1st Round and Quarterfinal games at the host districts gym with four games in two nights for the 1st round and two games in one night for the 2nd round. Game times are 6:15pm and 8pm.

* The return of District Semifinal double headers.
Same time as the District 1st and quarterfinal rounds.

* District Championship games take on Friday’s and Saturday’s all games slated to start at 7pm.

* Regional sites that host multiple divisions regionals will host an all day triple header on Saturday and Sunday of Regional week with game times of 3:30pm, 6pm, and 8pm. One ticket gets you in for every game.

* A capacity requirement for all Regional Sites being that all Regional hosts must have a 5,000+ seat venue.

* D-I Columbus Region returns to The Barn.
* D-I Akron/Toledo Region becomes Toledo Region sending the Akron half back to Cleveland.
* D-II Canton moves from Civic Center to Memorial Fieldhouse and plays Saturday night at 8pm, D-III 6pm, D-IV 3:30pm.

* OHSAA partners with participating hosts to broadcast live web casts of playoff games on a free streaming service with an OHSAA Radio broadcast used for commentary. Audio only options remain available. District Finals through State Finals are broadcasted live on TV through Ohio exclusive stations that all cable providers can access instead of exclusively to Spectrum.

* State Tournament remains on a Thursday, Friday, Saturday format. One ticket gets you into 2 games marked for day or night session.

* State Final Four games go in order:
Division IV Semis are always Session 1 and 2 Thursday day cap.
Division III Semis are always Session 3 and 4 Thursday night cap.
Division II Semis are always Session 5 and 6
Friday day cap
Division I Semis are always Session 7 and 8

*State Final Time slots go as follows:
D-IV always Session 9 12pm
D-III always Session 10 2:30pm
*Day sessions clearing intermission for night sessions.
D-II always Session 11 6:00pm
D-I always Session 12 8:30pm

*Rebrand The OHSAA State Tournament to The OHSAA Buckeye Madness State Tournament or Buckeye Madness for short. Similar to Hoosier Hysteria in Indiana.



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Only top 8 in District make it? Don't like that idea. Often a .500 team has reached regionals or even state.


A points system does not account for a young team struggling early then pulling it together at the right time.

A points system does not account for critical injuries to a team that started great but is extremely weak following the loss of key players.

A pointss system that only evaluates the final half of the season may be more accurate and fair. If you use the entire season a school with key transfers who played the first half of the year and helped a team go 11-0 to start the year may go 5-6 the final 11 games but still be a top 8 district team.

Due to a large disparity in conference makeup I would be 100% against a football style points system where a win over a weak team that plays a weak schedule yields more points than a win over a strong team in a strong conference that has lost a few games.

Why drop the running clock?
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Old 02-11-19, 06:51 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Football has few games in which to triage strength, little opportunity for out of conference competition at the same division, let alone across state. Basketball is not so limited in this regard, local coaches should have a reasonable idea but of course...politics...

No one believes that the absolute "best" team through the season always wins state because there is also subjectivity. In this I belief simpler is better. Leave it. Vote is fine. If you're the best, you'll win.
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Old 02-11-19, 07:30 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Matt Goul is such a homer. I'm not sure who he was rooting for that got a lower seed than they should have this year, but I wouldn't take anything he says seriously.

The reason HS basketball has been so good is because of the voting system. The fact that every team makes the playoffs regardless of record means that teams can go out and schedule top tier competition without consequence. Voters will compare teams and actually look at strength of schedule. In football, where every game matters and every win matters, teams are hesitant to schedule better competition because every harbin point matters.

Look at SVSM this past year in football. They were a state title contender, but scheduled Hoban and Massilon (both D2 state finalists) and lost to them, essentially guaranteeing they wouldn't make the playoffs. Had St. V scheduled some lower level D2, they would have probably made a playoff run, instead they missed out entirely.

Teams in Basketball like Cleveland Hts, Garfield Hts, and a few others that have 7, 8, 9 losses, but have scheduled up instead of just beating up on the little sisters of the poor, have actually benefitted from the voting system. I'm sure Cleveland Hts would have loved to beat up on the senate and every other Cleveland school and cruised to 15-20 wins. Same with Garfield Hts. But they are being rewarded for going out and playing top teams in the state.

The bottom line is that seeding doesnt matter in the tournament anyways. Beat the top teams in your district if you want to get out. At the end of the day, that's what matters. How many times in the NCAA tournament is the final four all #1 seeds? Yes it can happen but it doesn't happen every year. Seeding doesn't determine home court in districts or regionals in HS. Stop crying about a points system.
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Old 02-11-19, 07:58 AM
Fizz Fizz is offline
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I have been going to Districts,Regionals & State since the 1970s
I like just the way it is
When you make District It's the final 64 in each Division
Regionals are sweet 16
State is Final 4
Awesome time of year
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Old 02-11-19, 08:33 AM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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Considering that the D1 state championship game was a blowout I don’t see how this system would really help that...
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Old 02-11-19, 08:39 AM
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C'Town, you laid out a lot of thoughts on the changes you would like to see. Some of them sound promising. Maybe a lot of people would agree with you. I don't really like them though.

1. I have no qualms about every team making the tournament. It adds an extra week of practice/games, which most coaches are happy to have while they are building the program. It gives the better teams a "tune up" and some lesser teams a realistic chance to win a tournament game and extend their season. It doesn't do any harm.

2. The harbin system works great in football. I don't think it is necessary in basketball. For one, there are a lot more games to keep track of...and on many weeks there are six days a week (sometimes seven) where games are being played somewhere. Reporting of scores is not as consistent in basketball either, even with all of our technology. But the biggest reason I wouldn't like the harbin system in basketball is scheduling. Right now, there is no penalty for losing a basketball game. Throw in a computer point system, and you will see a lot more schools "dodging" the better programs and it will impact scheduling.

3. Bye rounds and mercy rule are a result of having everyone in the tournament. I agree that if we went to 8 teams per district making the tournament, neither of those would be necessary.

4. I don't think there is a need to have a hard set rule on days/times for district titles. Especially on the time. The Solon district has long had a 2pm Saturday final. After what happened at Shaker last week, hope you can understand why that is beneficial.

5. Your suggestion on fixing the Northeast regions (Cleveland, Akron, Toledo) is unclear to me. If you send Akron districts to Cleveland, that would mean six districts at the Cleveland region and two at Toledo. I laid out some potential fixes for the D1 Northern Regions (Region 1/2) on this thread

6. I get that one issue with seeding is that some believe the coach vote is unfair. Relationships and reputation often trump reality. Especially when the vote is made public. Coaches have better relationships with some than others, and you can bet that makes a difference. That is why I think the best method involves letting the coaches place themselves on the bracket. Team A might vote Mentor the 1 seed and Brush the 2 seed, but when it comes to placing themselves on the bracket - you will find out how they really feel by which side they place themselves. I thought removing that component was unnecessary.
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Old 02-11-19, 08:47 AM
ohiopup ohiopup is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
...Seeding doesn't determine home court in districts or regionals in HS. Stop crying about a points system.
Well no bearing on Regional play but the higher seeded team does get home
court in the first round in many Districts since many District Boards have
divested from from the 'all games at one site for Sectionals/District'.

:>---

EGA
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Old 02-11-19, 08:51 AM
Sports Jock and Chad Sports Jock and Chad is offline
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I grew up in District 3 in Pennsylvania (districts there are geographic boundaries like counties)! I was shocked when I moved here and realized everyone made the tournament. I have watched so many terrible games in the first 2 rounds...the least the OHSAA could do is say a team has to be .500 or above to qualify (like being Bowl eligible). The odd thing about PA is the District tournaments are entirely separate from the State Tourney...You can lose in the first round of your District and still go to State. In that regard I like that OH is a continuous tournament.
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Old 02-11-19, 09:13 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohiopup View Post
Well no bearing on Regional play but the higher seeded team does get home
court in the first round in many Districts since many District Boards have
divested from from the 'all games at one site for Sectionals/District'.

:>---

EGA
Yes teams get home court for sectional games. Usually the better teams are only playing in 1 sectional game anyways and home court isn't making much of a difference tbh. Most lower seeds aren't upsetting anyone in sectionals these days regardless of location, so home court based on seeding is pretty much a moodt point. Every district semi and final is played at a neutral site anyways, so the order of being the 1-4 seeds in the end doesn't matter in most districts.
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Old 02-11-19, 09:19 AM
unc4life unc4life is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
Yes teams get home court for sectional games. Usually the better teams are only playing in 1 sectional game anyways and home court isn't making much of a difference tbh. Most lower seeds aren't upsetting anyone in sectionals these days regardless of location, so home court based on seeding is pretty much a moodt point. Every district semi and final is played at a neutral site anyways, so the order of being the 1-4 seeds in the end doesn't matter in most districts.
Not every district has home games for teams in the sectional. Northwest D1 still hase sectional sites. Ashland has to drive 2+ hours to play a sectional game in Toldeo. This should be a State wide rule that all sectional games are played at the better seeds home court.
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Old 02-11-19, 09:42 AM
tcgobucks tcgobucks is offline
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Is that the same guy that does the voting for the Plain Dealer? He lists his picks each week under the Top 10 when the AP poll comes out. It makes sense he would complain, his picks are ridiculous, though it's part of the reason why the AP poll is nothing more than something for people to talk about. He's had a D4 northwest Ohio team ranked all season that's not in the top 3 in their ridiculously awful league

Here's the thing...you can't compare football to basketball. If you have a 10 team league, you only have 1 non-conference game...and you really in most cases need to get a win in that game to help your Harbin points. In basketball, you don't....everyone makes the tourney. If you start using points, you're going to see a lot of great, long time non-conference rivalries go away because teams will start scheduling "winnable" games instead of games that prepare you for a tourney run. My HS plays a really, really good non-conference schedule....always has. They have 4 state titles and a dozen regional appearances in the last 20 or so years....because of a tough regular season schedule. Most teams that are regularly in the regional and beyond are the same way. We all can name at least 5 teams that get 20+ wins EVERY year playing a ridiiculously weak schedule....then bow out in the district. Which would you rather have? The system is fine the way it is....there's no reason to change it.
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Old 02-11-19, 09:47 AM
tcgobucks tcgobucks is offline
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Originally Posted by unc4life View Post
Not every district has home games for teams in the sectional. Northwest D1 still hase sectional sites. Ashland has to drive 2+ hours to play a sectional game in Toldeo. This should be a State wide rule that all sectional games are played at the better seeds home court.
I think part of that is that in NW & West Central Ohio, even the smaller schools have such a big fan base that if sectional games were played in some of the smaller gyms that there just wouldn't be enough seating. I can tell you that if Kalida had to play a sectional game at Toledo Christian, it would be a major issue. I understand the Ashland issue, but that's not common.... it all comes down to making the districts as even as possible with regard to number of teams. I don't see a problem with driving distance for any of the other teams. Sure, maybe an hour and a half, but so what, that's less than half of what some teams travel for a first round football game.
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Old 02-11-19, 09:55 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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This should be a State wide rule that all sectional games are played at the better seeds home court.
The OHSAA has no say in how each District structures their tournaments. It's nothing new.
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Old 02-11-19, 10:27 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unc4life View Post
Not every district has home games for teams in the sectional. Northwest D1 still hase sectional sites. Ashland has to drive 2+ hours to play a sectional game in Toldeo. This should be a State wide rule that all sectional games are played at the better seeds home court.
I didn't know this. Thanks for the heads up. Every district in NE Ohio does sectionals at the better seed. Not that it really matters in the end. Usually they end of being blowouts anyways.
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Old 02-11-19, 10:33 AM
CometCountry CometCountry is offline
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SW D-1-D-4 plays t sectional sites--D-1 uses HS's like Lakota West, Hamilton, Fairfield, Centerville, Butler, and Trotwood--only rule is that a school cannot play a sectional game on their home court.
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Old 02-11-19, 12:20 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Having to meet a certain record threshold to qualify is a really bad idea IMO. Leagues and schedules are not created equally. Around Dayton, for example, it's quite possible in any given year that a D2 GCL team (i.e. Alter or CJ) may only win 7-10 regular season games due to having a brutal schedule and then make a good run in the tournament.

I thoroughly despise home sites in the sectional rounds. In certain parts of the state this creates unneeded long trips due to geography or rush hour (i.e. being west/southwest of Columbus and having to make a trip to Licking county for a 7:30 week night tip). Sectionals ideally should be at a fairly geographically centralized site IMO.

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Old 02-11-19, 12:35 PM
clevfan clevfan is offline
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Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
Having to meet a certain record threshold to qualify is a really bad idea IMO. Leagues and schedules are not created equally. Around Dayton, for example, it's quite possible in any given year that a D2 GCL team (i.e. Alter or CJ) may only win 7-10 regular season games due to having a brutal schedule and then make a good run in the tournament.

I thoroughly despise home sites in the sectional rounds. In certain parts of the state this creates unneeded long trips due to geography or rush hour (i.e. being west/southwest of Columbus and having to make a trip to Licking county for a 7:30 week night tip). Sectionals ideally should be at a fairly geographically centralized site IMO.

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Agree with you. Totally against the spirit of March Madness. Just off the top of my head, I think of 8-17 Medina taking St. Ignatius to the limit in last year's district semifinal at Strongsville, and 6-19 Strongsville taking Lorain (who would later advance to Columbus) to the limit in the district final at Elyria Catholic. What in the world would we be trying to accomplish by legislating teams like this out of the tournament?
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Old 02-11-19, 12:41 PM
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cardzfan1234 cardzfan1234 is offline
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Agree with you. Totally against the spirit of March Madness. Just off the top of my head, I think of 8-17 Medina taking St. Ignatius to the limit in last year's district semifinal at Strongsville, and 6-19 Strongsville taking Lorain (who would later advance to Columbus) to the limit in the district final at Elyria Catholic. What in the world would we be trying to accomplish by legislating teams like this out of the tournament?
One of Mentor's district titles was from a team that had a losing record. Their LEL schedule back in that day was incredibly tough. I don't think the current system is broke. Maybe some tweeks are fine...but getting rid of all teams making the playoffs might create more problems than it solves. Is it really worth the time, money, and energy spent on a harbin-like system just to exclude the bottom 4-6 seeds from every district out there?
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Old 02-11-19, 12:46 PM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
Having to meet a certain record threshold to qualify is a really bad idea IMO. Leagues and schedules are not created equally. Around Dayton, for example, it's quite possible in any given year that a D2 GCL team (i.e. Alter or CJ) may only win 7-10 regular season games due to having a brutal schedule and then make a good run in the tournament.

I thoroughly despise home sites in the sectional rounds. In certain parts of the state this creates unneeded long trips due to geography or rush hour (i.e. being west/southwest of Columbus and having to make a trip to Licking county for a 7:30 week night tip). Sectionals ideally should be at a fairly geographically centralized site IMO.

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100%. There are a few teams in NE Ohio (Garfield Hts, Cleveland Hts, Solon off the top of my head) that always schedule tough opponents and this year may be around .500 once tournament time starts because of it, but they are more than capable of making runs in their district, possibly further. It makes teams battle tested, whereas in football, teams would rather schedule cupcakes out of conference to inflate their record to give them a better chance of making the playoffs.

Sectionals at neutral sites are a no from me. At least having sectionals at one of the home sites eliminates travel for 1 of the teams. When you mentioned having to travel from one side of Columbus to the other, imagine if BOTH teams had to travel to the other side of the city for a neutral site game. I would imagine schools are happy with the extra revenue as well from being able to host sectional games when their teams are good. This also creates a better atmosphere for sectional games. I would imagine not all teams and their fans would be willing to travel for a meaningless first round sectional game.
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Old 02-11-19, 12:48 PM
MSL MSL is offline
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I just do not understand why bracketing is done when a lot of teams still have 2 weeks left in the regular season.
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Old 02-11-19, 01:04 PM
3out2in 3out2in is online now
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I just do not understand why bracketing is done when a lot of teams still have 2 weeks left in the regular season.
They did it because they saw the need for a uniform, simultaneous draw so they wouldn't have to wait for districts to get their brackets to the OHSAA. It is mainly done though because the SW and SE districts start next week which is earlier than the rest of the state.
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Old 02-11-19, 01:09 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
100%. There are a few teams in NE Ohio (Garfield Hts, Cleveland Hts, Solon off the top of my head) that always schedule tough opponents and this year may be around .500 once tournament time starts because of it, but they are more than capable of making runs in their district, possibly further. It makes teams battle tested, whereas in football, teams would rather schedule cupcakes out of conference to inflate their record to give them a better chance of making the playoffs.



Sectionals at neutral sites are a no from me. At least having sectionals at one of the home sites eliminates travel for 1 of the teams. When you mentioned having to travel from one side of Columbus to the other, imagine if BOTH teams had to travel to the other side of the city for a neutral site game. I would imagine schools are happy with the extra revenue as well from being able to host sectional games when their teams are good. This also creates a better atmosphere for sectional games. I would imagine not all teams and their fans would be willing to travel for a meaningless first round sectional game.
I don't know that I agree that it improves the atmosphere to have home sites. I've coached at schools in the SW, NW and Central districts and the Central district tournament format is by far my least favorite of the three. A few years ago I got to make that hypothetical trip and it took about 2 hours and 15 minutes. I believe we were a 12 seed and they were a 10 seed. Both with 13-9 records, and pretty similar talent levels. That's a hell of an advantage to give someone in a 50/50 game in a one and done tournament.

I don't even know if you really get much of anything financially for hosting. At the sectional level, if you buy pre-sale tickets through your school, your school gets $3 of that $7 ticket. The district/state gets a cut. I can't imagine that leaves much of anything for the host, which is probably the real reason why some have home site sectional games. Hosting neutral sectionals seems to be more about status IMO.

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  #27  
Old 02-11-19, 01:28 PM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
I don't know that I agree that it improves the atmosphere to have home sites. I've coached at schools in the SW, NW and Central districts and the Central district tournament format is by far my least favorite of the three. A few years ago I got to make that hypothetical trip and it took about 2 hours and 15 minutes. I believe we were a 12 seed and they were a 10 seed. Both with 13-9 records, and pretty similar talent levels. That's a hell of an advantage to give someone in a 50/50 game in a one and done tournament.

I don't even know if you really get much of anything financially for hosting. At the sectional level, if you buy pre-sale tickets through your school, your school gets $3 of that $7 ticket. The district/state gets a cut. I can't imagine that leaves much of anything for the host, which is probably the real reason why some have home site sectional games. Hosting neutral sectionals seems to be more about status IMO.

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I just don't see much of a benefit from making both teams travel for sectional games, especially the first round sectionals. Other sports do the same thing (baseball, softball, etc) and no one seems to have a problem with it. With districts looking to cut costs, it makes sense to only have 1 school travel instead of 2 with paying drivers, bus costs, etc. It may sound petty or miniscule, but schools are looking to save a dollar wherever they can.

I also think you're downplaying schools making at least a few bucks off tickets, concessions, 50/50, etc. And I think atmosphere definitely matters. With your 10 seed vs 12 seed example, are any students, parents, or general fans travelling over 2 hours to watch a 10 vs 12 sectional basketball game? I would imagine the gym was 1/4th full if both teams had to travel 2 hours for a first round sectional. Do teams really want to spend 5 hours on a bus to play a first round playoff game? I would think teams would rather host, or at least travel to the other school to play in front of someone.
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Old 02-11-19, 01:54 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
I just don't see much of a benefit from making both teams travel for sectional games, especially the first round sectionals. Other sports do the same thing (baseball, softball, etc) and no one seems to have a problem with it. With districts looking to cut costs, it makes sense to only have 1 school travel instead of 2 with paying drivers, bus costs, etc. It may sound petty or miniscule, but schools are looking to save a dollar wherever they can.



I also think you're downplaying schools making at least a few bucks off tickets, concessions, 50/50, etc. And I think atmosphere definitely matters. With your 10 seed vs 12 seed example, are any students, parents, or general fans travelling over 2 hours to watch a 10 vs 12 sectional basketball game? I would imagine the gym was 1/4th full if both teams had to travel 2 hours for a first round sectional. Do teams really want to spend 5 hours on a bus to play a first round playoff game? I would think teams would rather host, or at least travel to the other school to play in front of someone.
We actually had a fair number of fans, parents and students make that week night trip. If you split the difference and played at Westerville or Gahanna it would have probably been an equal or greater attendance number.

Around here (SW district), most neutral sites seem to do just fine on attendance, especially in the lower divisions. I'd also argue it has a lot to do with having more compact geography at the sectional level. Unless the high-end teams are overwhelmingly slanted to a given area of an open district, I don't see any real reason to have a multiple district open draw when the district is really geographically spread. In the case of D3 in central Ohio, IMO their two districts should be geographical. West/Southwest and East/Northeast. Probably minimal to no effect on what teams advance in most years and would greatly ease travel with having home sites.

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  #29  
Old 02-11-19, 02:28 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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* The return of one site “sectional”/District 1st Round and Quarterfinal games at the host districts gym with four games in two nights for the 1st round and two games in one night for the 2nd round. Game times are 6:15pm and 8pm.
I'm torn on this one. Personally, I love having multiple games in the same location. It's an excitement that is exclusive to basketball.

The downside is that the communities aren't supporting basketball like they did in the past. Having a game at a neutral site means that neither side brings much of a crowd in the sectional games. By having the higher seed host, at least one team usually brings a good crowd.

Not sure anything the OHSAA does will bring back the local support of all teams so I lean toward going back to neutral sites. Just wish more communities would support their teams at these games.
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Old 02-11-19, 03:00 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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I grew up in District 3 in Pennsylvania (districts there are geographic boundaries like counties)! I was shocked when I moved here and realized everyone made the tournament. I have watched so many terrible games in the first 2 rounds...the least the OHSAA could do is say a team has to be .500 or above to qualify (like being Bowl eligible). The odd thing about PA is the District tournaments are entirely separate from the State Tourney...You can lose in the first round of your District and still go to State. In that regard I like that OH is a continuous tournament.
I too grew up in PA, district 1. I also had a family that followed the playoffs through districts and states every year. We had regular tickets to the full weekend of games in Hershey every year. When I got to Ohio I was also shocked by the setup, especially in SWO where districts have zero meaning behind them besides the word. The entire region is one big "district" and teams pick and choose wherever (basically) they want to play each year.

I like the separation of the district tournaments from the state tournaments. It helps put the actual best teams together later in the tournament, since the districts send multiple teams to state and those teams are scattered to different sides of the bracket. So in years where the best 3 or 4 teams might all be in the same city, they could potentially be playing each other for the state championship instead of eliminating each other in their region, like how it is in Ohio. Think Mentor and St Ed's playing in the state final because they are the actual 2 best teams in the state that year. Or an all GCL final 4 because that year those just happen to be the best 4 teams in the state.

I don't know district 3 in PA, but I don't know any districts where you can lose in the first round and still qualify for states. I've talked about this in the past on Yappi. Ohio could adapt something similar to PA without rocking the apple cart too much. As you can see you already have people losing their #$%@ on the idea of change. Ohio could keep the 4 regions, but instead of just 1 team in each region you could have 4 that qualify for the state tournament. The state tournament would then become 16 teams instead of 4. Matchups would be based on regional seeds. So the 1 seed from one region would play the 4 from another, the 2 would play the 3 from a different region, and so on.

The two negatives would be possibly cutting down the amount of teams that make the playoffs, maybe the bottom 1/3. I personally think you could still keep the playoffs as is with everyone playing. The other negative is travel. The state tournament, as with PA, would have longer travel distances for many of the teams.

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