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  #1  
Old 08-10-17, 03:39 PM
SLAGuy SLAGuy is offline
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Concussion expert Dr. Bennet Omalu says playing football is child abuse

He says no one under the age of 18 should be allowed to play football. Says letting kids play football is child abuse and one day a parent will be charged with abuse for letting kids play.
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  #2  
Old 08-10-17, 04:53 PM
yipyap yipyap is offline
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If this is true why do we allow children to play hockey or play soccer or lacrosse. The problem as I see it is that football is a scapegoat.. I would be the first to admit that since the 60s coaches have taught tackling incorrectly. Someone developed a technique and it was copies. Tackling with the head. Now we have changed our tackling techniques and it is now safer than ever. When you test about 200 brains that you think have a disease you will find the disease in most of them. There are more studies coming out questioning some of those findings. My mother has developed dimensa and has never played football. Somewhere someone has to get a little real about this. Kids driving cars and riding bikes is dangerous to some. Enough of a rant. Sorry.
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Old 08-10-17, 05:42 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yipyap View Post
I would be the first to admit that since the 60s coaches have taught tackling incorrectly. Someone developed a technique and it was copies. Tackling with the head. Now we have changed our tackling techniques and it is now safer than ever.
That's the biggie, right there. That's what caused severe injuries (and deaths) in the 60s and 70s.

I don't understand the harping on concussions. 99.5% of children who play football are not going to suffer long term damage from concussions. It's an NFL problem. They play too many games, with too much force, in too dangerous conditions. And it's the cumulative damage from playing as a child, to HS, through college, and then in a pro career that does it. Most players are done after HS, and that's that. I am all for starting kids later and shortening the season (take off one week, and/or shorten the playoffs) though.

The worst offenders by far are the D1 colleges. That's where we need some big changes in the game. Virtually all severe injuries and deaths occur in practices for a D1 college. They push the players way too hard. The NCAA truly sucks. The game is going to have to become less violent overall but this is the first area that needs addressed.
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Old 08-10-17, 07:53 PM
Sykotyk Sykotyk is offline
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I just don't see hoards of ex-high school football players huddled in mental institutions, unable to speak, walk, etc., completely broken as people as these studies seem to claim. Any deviation from the mean is considered a negative. The cognitive deviation from normal in these studies is ridiculous as any OTHER cause is just excused as CTE. Angry or upset? CTE. Forgot where you parked? CTE. Suicidal? CTE. No other reason.

If you stop eating donuts, you will live three years longer. It's just three more years you want a donut.

In the game of life, at the end the house always wins.
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Old 08-10-17, 11:22 PM
TheGreatElk TheGreatElk is offline
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Wow! You guys are probably part of the anti global warming crowd also. The science is overwhelming. Denying it will ultimately end football. Figure out a way to make it safe. I have a doctor friend who played D1 football who says we should get rid of helmets altogether. It's a natural instinct to protect your head and helmets give a false sense of security. Sounds crazy, but the point is players are not protecting themselves the way they should. No helmets in rugby, yet rugby doesn't have the cocussion problem.
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Old 08-10-17, 11:53 PM
ideliver ideliver is offline
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Straw man argument alert...2,300 kids die a year driving in cars...6 per DAY

You cannot eliminate risk from your life.

That being said, better coaching, better tackling technique, better concussion recognition, better treatment and enforcement of rest and return to play requirements....

None of this happened 10 or even 5 years ago. The game is changing.

It wasn't that long ago that coaches withheld water from practices...today that would be unthinkable....just like then, when we got our "bell rung" we ran back out onto the field two plays later...
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  #7  
Old 08-11-17, 04:03 AM
Purple66 Purple66 is offline
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Giving a teenager a phone and allowing them to take it out into life everyday is child abuse. Look at the death they have caused and injuries with them using these things. It is like here take this and go gamble with your life.
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Old 08-11-17, 04:18 AM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatElk View Post
Wow! You guys are probably part of the anti global warming crowd also. The science is overwhelming. Denying it will ultimately end football.
But it's not injuries to the brain that young men die from. It's heat stroke, practice-related injuries, complications from sickle-cell anemia in black athletes, and undiscovered heart issues.

Neurological causes of death are speculative (but highly probable) in middle-aged and older men leaving NFL careers. I'm sure it will be discovered, or already has been, in NCAA athletes. I'm not saying CTE doesn't exist, I'm saying that's what is currently trendy and isn't really the primary concern. Three of the four above issues I mentioned are totally fixable. Of course the game has to change.
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  #9  
Old 08-11-17, 05:40 AM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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High school football is finished. We are seeing the beginning of the end. This brain injury data is just going to keep pouring out, and at some point lawyers are going to go wild with lawsuits...insurance rates will be sky high for schools, and that will be it. Football will move to some sort of AAU style system, where the brunt of the cost will be paid by parents and/or sponsors...save for some selected all star teams that will be sponsored by national shoe and equipment companies. And you may notice men are being outnumbered hugely by women in college. At some point it will be majority women in power positions in the nation, and they will not likely see the need to protect football as we know it.
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  #10  
Old 08-11-17, 06:17 AM
Egret Egret is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple66 View Post
Giving a teenager a phone and allowing them to take it out into life everyday is child abuse. Look at the death they have caused and injuries with them using these things. It is like here take this and go gamble with your life.
Post of the week.
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  #11  
Old 08-11-17, 06:41 AM
Zunardo Zunardo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple66 View Post
Giving a teenager a phone and allowing them to take it out into life everyday is child abuse. Look at the death they have caused and injuries with them using these things. It is like here take this and go gamble with your life.
Pretty soon, letting children out on the playground equipment during recess will be considered equally abusive. The one concussion I know received happened on a swing set when I was 7.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ideliver View Post
None of this happened 10 or even 5 years ago. The game is changing.
Can you imagine this happening even 5 years ago?

http://nbc4i.com/2017/08/10/high-sch...ootball-drill/

What's even weirder is that there is a Hallmark Channel romantic comedy where the male lead plays a former SEAL who runs a training camp to prepare potential applicants for things like Log PT.
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  #12  
Old 08-11-17, 06:51 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykotyk View Post
I just don't see hoards of ex-high school football players huddled in mental institutions, unable to speak, walk, etc., completely broken as people as these studies seem to claim. Any deviation from the mean is considered a negative. The cognitive deviation from normal in these studies is ridiculous as any OTHER cause is just excused as CTE. Angry or upset? CTE. Forgot where you parked? CTE. Suicidal? CTE. No other reason.

If you stop eating donuts, you will live three years longer. It's just three more years you want a donut.

In the game of life, at the end the house always wins.
Excellent post.
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  #13  
Old 08-11-17, 06:59 AM
Zunardo Zunardo is offline
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Originally Posted by TheGreatElk View Post
No helmets in rugby, yet rugby doesn't have the concussion problem.
I think it's more accurate to say that most Americans are not aware of the concussion problem in rugby, because so few of us follow it - but they do have "the problem"

This link says youth rugby concussion rates range from 0.2 to 6.9 concussions per every 1000 player hours, and higher rates for higher leagues.

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/49/8/506

Your mention of rugby and playing without helmets is interesting. While watching the Browns and Saints last night, I was looking at the ever-shrinking shoulder pads, as well as paper-thin padding in the pants.

I immediately thought of how they're coming closer and closer to the equipment of rugby and Australian Rules Football players.

Maybe in the not-too-distant future we'll see a radical design change in helmets to nothing more than strips of foam padding. Maybe not. But more changes are coming.
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  #14  
Old 08-11-17, 07:01 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yipyap View Post
If this is true why do we allow children to play hockey or play soccer or lacrosse. The problem as I see it is that football is a scapegoat.. I would be the first to admit that since the 60s coaches have taught tackling incorrectly. Someone developed a technique and it was copies. Tackling with the head. Now we have changed our tackling techniques and it is now safer than ever. When you test about 200 brains that you think have a disease you will find the disease in most of them. There are more studies coming out questioning some of those findings. My mother has developed dimensa and has never played football. Somewhere someone has to get a little real about this. Kids driving cars and riding bikes is dangerous to some. Enough of a rant. Sorry.
These sports don't play well in the media. Duh.
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  #15  
Old 08-11-17, 08:28 AM
sapientia et veritas sapientia et veritas is offline
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They need to compare that to dissected brains of players who quit playing in high school and those whose last playing was college. Basic physics is that an NFL magnitude blow to the head has much greater force than a high school one, and that an NFL player has experienced a higher quantity of blows. Looking at the media article about the report:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/ ... story.html

The high school sample size is too small to have any meaning, and there are no qualifiers to it. Were the kids 4-year starters? Are these kids playing in elite leagues loaded with future D1 players, or small and medium-town kids learning about teamwork, fitness, proper strength training, dedication, and hard work playing a comparatively low impact sport for fun?

Colleges are doomed long before high school. The numbers are totally against them, they have TONS of money, there's more of them, they are slower to learn and adapt, and the culture of stupidly hard hits is much more prevalent there.
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  #16  
Old 08-11-17, 08:33 AM
FiredUp1 FiredUp1 is offline
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Worry more about ACL-PCL-and MCL tears than concussions. Not only are the injuries long term look at the data on opiate addictions stemming from these types of injuries. I'm talking all joint and orthopedic injuries in general. Go ahead look at that data. It will really make your brain hurt!
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  #17  
Old 08-11-17, 08:50 AM
sapientia et veritas sapientia et veritas is offline
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Originally Posted by FiredUp1 View Post
Worry more about ACL-PCL-and MCL tears than concussions
Tiger Woods tore his ACL chasing women. They should definitely ban that ASAP.
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  #18  
Old 08-11-17, 08:52 AM
Big Ragu Big Ragu is offline
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My grandfather played at tOSU in the mid '30s. Started both ways as a number of players did in that era. He would comment on the lack of hitting/blocking/tackling technique in today's game. He did not like the way guys would lead with their head and suggested removing the face mask. I think that would help alleviate *some* of the concussion issues. Today's helmets are as protective as ever, but they still don't cushion the brain enough. Some type of rules change is needed to protect these players from themselves. They are bigger, stronger, and faster than ever before. The body, no matter how well protected is not designed for the impact these guys create.
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Old 08-11-17, 09:30 AM
Buck_98 Buck_98 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatElk View Post
Wow! You guys are probably part of the anti global warming crowd also. The science is overwhelming. Denying it will ultimately end football. Figure out a way to make it safe. I have a doctor friend who played D1 football who says we should get rid of helmets altogether. It's a natural instinct to protect your head and helmets give a false sense of security. Sounds crazy, but the point is players are not protecting themselves the way they should. No helmets in rugby, yet rugby doesn't have the cocussion problem.
Why have concussions in soccer gone up then??
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  #20  
Old 08-11-17, 10:12 AM
my2sense my2sense is offline
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High school football as we know it will cease to exist in 15-20 years. College and pros may be able to hold on a little longer due to the $$ they produce. Look for Ohio to move to 6 man football first then eventually more of a flag football 7-on-7 format as football. The synergy of football as we know it is on the decline. Sad.
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Old 08-11-17, 10:28 AM
ideliver ideliver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck_98 View Post
Why have concussions in soccer gone up then??


They were always there...just better recognition and reporting. We just never actually diagnosed them and counted them.
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Old 08-11-17, 10:29 AM
Cali_Eagle Cali_Eagle is offline
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Originally Posted by cjb56 View Post
High school football is finished. We are seeing the beginning of the end. This brain injury data is just going to keep pouring out, and at some point lawyers are going to go wild with lawsuits...insurance rates will be sky high for schools, and that will be it. Football will move to some sort of AAU style system, where the brunt of the cost will be paid by parents and/or sponsors...save for some selected all star teams that will be sponsored by national shoe and equipment companies. And you may notice men are being outnumbered hugely by women in college. At some point it will be majority women in power positions in the nation, and they will not likely see the need to protect football as we know it.
I agree with the bulk of this post. I see football in High School and College following the same pattern as boxing has, where it is only going to be played by the economically disadvantaged and to be blunt, the desperate. Middle class parents of all races and backgrounds will start steering their kids into other sports and one day the NFL, if it is to survive (it will, its too popular AND a case can be made for allowing legal adults the freedom to take the risks if "the price is right"), will have start training their own players on a different path than the traditional middle school - high school - college - NFL path. With Pop Warner and other rec football in there for the youngest.

I too am amazed that ambulance chasers haven't descended on HS and College football (where the real money is) hard and fast. We have so many "AC" law firms just here in the Las Vegas area alone that it boggles the mind. Maybe they fear the very real possibility of physically violent reprisals by crazy fans for such lawsuits, IDK.

I think a lot of parents will vote with their feet and keep the ever ubiquitous "Johnny" steered toward other sports, golf, tennis, baseball, soccer.

I think banning headed balls in HS and College soccer makes a lot of that particular sports problem go away myself. The impact of heading a ball with a bare head cant be any good for the brain inside that head.
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Old 08-11-17, 10:50 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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I'm still all for taking away the helmets and pads. See what happens
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Old 08-11-17, 11:28 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by cjb56 View Post
at some point lawyers are going to go wild with lawsuits...insurance rates will be sky high for schools, and that will be it.
There is no one to sue. If you voluntarily do something that you know can hurt you, that's on you. If people could sue for getting hurt playing HS football they would be doing that already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjb56 View Post
Football will move to some sort of AAU style system, where the brunt of the cost will be paid by parents and/or sponsors...
Why, because a few parents will be better to afford something a whole school district cannot? Sponsors can afford to lose lawsuits and pay damages that school districts cannot? If a school district has to hire lawyers or pay damages all of the costs get passed on to the taxpayers. Chico's Bail Bonds can afford to lose a lawsuit but all of the taxpayers cannot afford it?

If you want to say you won't allow you child to play football or that football should be safer, fine, you have a valid opinion. But when you just say stupid stuff if makes you looks stupid, and why would any sensible person want to agree with what a stupid person says? You're not helping to make football safer or protecting children. You are actually causing harm.
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Old 08-11-17, 11:37 AM
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MoeDude MoeDude is offline
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Originally Posted by jackson03 View Post
...The NCAA truly sucks....
Very true! I've been Reading Joe Nocera's book title "Indentured". The truth is the NCAA just doesn't suck but they are actually criminal in the way they manage college sports.
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  #26  
Old 08-11-17, 11:54 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by Cali_Eagle View Post
I agree with the bulk of this post. I see football in High School and College following the same pattern as boxing has, where it is only going to be played by the economically disadvantaged and to be blunt, the desperate. ...
First, you don't "play" boxing.

Second, professional boxers have always been "economically disadvantaged and to be blunt, the desperate."

Third, "I too am amazed" that anyone thinks high schools and colleges can be sued by players who are injured. People get hurt playing sports. Everybody but the shockingly ignorant knows that. Legally it is called "assumed risk." If you get hurt doing something that you know can hurt you, you do not get to blame someone else. It is not anyone else's fault. Don't believe me? Then why aren't lawyers already suing schools? Because they're not as smart as you and haven't figured it out yet? Trust me, that's not the reason.


Wait a minute, maybe I am looking at this completely the wrong way.

I am going to ride my bike later today, probably around 20 miles. If a squirrel runs across my path, I might have to brake suddenly. I could lose my balance, fall over, and hit my head on the ground. Yesss! I can sue!!!!

Should I sue the paving company because the asphalt is too hard?

Should I sue the bicycle company because they make bikes that can tip over?

Should I sue the county park system because they allow wild animals to roam freely instead of putting them all in cages as a matter of public safety?

Should I sue the helmet manufacturer? (I don't actually own or wear a bike helmet, but then again they didn't give me one for free either, and if they really cared about my safety they would do that.}

Maybe I should sue the state of Ohio because there is no law that compels to wear a bike helmet like there is a law that makes me wear a seatbelt.

If I fall off my bike who do I get to sue?
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Old 08-11-17, 11:58 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by my2sense View Post
Look for Ohio to move to 6 man football first then eventually more of a flag football 7-on-7 format as football.
Neither will happen.
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Old 08-11-17, 12:07 PM
sapientia et veritas sapientia et veritas is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
Third, "I too am amazed" that anyone thinks high schools and colleges can be sued by players who are injured. People get hurt playing sports. Everybody but the shockingly ignorant knows that. Legally it is called "assumed risk."
And then there's sovereign immunity too. Carl the groundskeeper could dig a hole in the middle of the field, a player could step in it and break his leg, and the government school is still immune from liability. The injured player would have to report it to the appropriate authority (byzantine navigational procedures are in place for misdirection) and the authority would have to fail to take responsibility (by filling out a work order to fill the hole eventually) before the possibility of being liable for the second broken leg. ORC 2744.02 errs on the side of government so long as the concussion wasn't caused by fireworks. Naturally, privates are out of luck on broad grants of immunity.
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Old 08-11-17, 12:17 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by TheGreatElk View Post
Wow! ... No helmets in rugby, yet rugby doesn't have the cocussion problem.
How would anybody know?
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Old 08-11-17, 12:18 PM
Buck_98 Buck_98 is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
There is no one to sue. If you voluntarily do something that you know can hurt you, that's on you. If people could sue for getting hurt playing HS football they would be doing that already.
Sort of like ordering a hot coffee at McDonalds, spilling it on yourself, then suing because it was too hot? That kind of voluntary activity??
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